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CNN Freelancer Abducted In Ukraine; Official: Flight Crashes With 116 On Board; 74 More Caskets Arriving In The Netherlands; U.N. Shelter In Gaza Hit, Scores Dead; Rocket Explodes Over CNN Crew In Tel Aviv

Aired July 24, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We do start this hour with breaking news.

A freelance journalist working for CNN has been abducted in eastern Ukraine by pro-Russian rebels. This is Anton Skiba. He was taken by armed men outside of a hotel in Donestk and we are publicly asking those rebels, release him now, please. Our senior international correspondent, Ivan Watson, is live in Donestk to tell us more about his abduction. Good morning.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. That's right. CNN was not reporting on Anton Skiba's detention because we were working behind the scenes with separatist officials trying to secure the young man's release. He had worked for CNN for all of one day as we describe it in the industry here as a fixer, a kind of translator and guide to this region.

What happened is on Tuesday, when my colleague, Phil Black and his television crew were returning here from a day of work at the site of the Malaysian Air Flight 17 crash, when they arrived just outside this hotel, there were a group of gunmen led by a senior separatist official who were waiting.

They asked for the identity of Anton Skiba and then basically accused him of being a terrorist and led him away to a waiting car. He did not resist as he was taken away. When a CNN cameraman tried to film the detention with a cell phone, the separatists took that cell phone and returned it several hours later with an apology on condition that the video be deleted.

The accusations against Anton Skiba have evolved since his detention. He was initially accused of promising cash rewards for the death of rebels on his Facebook page. Later, he was accused of having different identity cards with different last names on them. We have not gotten any update as to his whereabouts or his welfare today, Thursday, despite repeated requests about this young man.

In the meantime a growing number of international human rights and press freedom organizations have publicly demanded for Skiba's release including the committee to protect journalists, reporters without borders, the OSCE and the United Nations Human Rights Commissioner.

We have heard from Skiba as of Wednesday, he made a brief phone call to CNN in which he was able to say that he was OK. He was being questioned at the headquarters of the separatist's security services and then the call was abruptly cut off. We do not know if that call was made under duress.

His detention seems to highlight the real tension in this region as the conflict escalates in the weeks since the Malaysian Airlines flight went down about an hour's flight from where I'm standing. An hour's drive rather from where I'm standing -- Carol.

COSTELLO: A very frightening development. Ivan, please stay safe. Thanks so much for that report. Again a message to these Ukrainian rebels, please, please, release that freelancer now. We're asking you.

Also this morning, another aviation disaster unfolding in Africa. A passenger plane that vanished from radar overnight has reportedly crashed with 116 people on board. An aviation official says the Air Algeria jet crashed about an hour into its flight from Western Africa to the capital city of Algeria on the northern coast. The plane is actually operated by a private company, Swiftair, that is based in Spain.

CNN's Joe Johns is in Washington with more information on this crash. Good morning, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. That's right. The report is that this plane has crashed. It is Flight 5017, an Air Algeria plane that left Burkina Faso, disappeared apparently over Mali. We know very little about this right now. We do know there was a visibility problem. Some reports that there were thunderstorms or thundershowers in the area. The pilot was told to change course when this plane lost contact with the tower.

According to what we know there were 110 passengers aboard, two pilots, four crewmembers and people have been watching all this very closely because not only are there issues of flying in this part of Africa, there's also a bit of unrest there in Mali. So the report now is that plane, Flight 5017, an Air Algeria plane, MD-83, has crashed with 110 passengers on board plus crew -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Joe Johns reporting live from Washington for us. Thank you.

In the Netherlands, a national day of mourning is over, but grief still holds in this tiny country in a stranglehold.

This morning, the Dutch are welcoming home dozens more victims from Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. Most of the 298 people killed in the apparent missile strike are from the Netherlands. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Kharkiv, Ukraine, where the journey began hours ago.

Also on the phone from Paris, Christopher Dickey, the foreign editor of "The Daily Beast." Chris, I want to start with you. More planes with remains are set to arrive in the Netherlands tomorrow. This is a very tough week for the people of the Netherlands.

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, FOREIGN EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST" (via telephone): Well, I think it is a very, very tough time for the people of the Netherlands and also for people of Australia, Malaysia. People really all over the world who lost loved ones on that flight. Of course, the Netherlands lost the most people, almost 200, out of the almost 300 people on that airplane were Dutch. So everybody in the Netherlands feels they know somebody or knows somebody who knew somebody on that plane and that is almost literally true.

It's just a crushing blow for the country, but people are also, I think, growing increasingly angry. You know, the Dutch are very conservative, very commercially minded people, very reluctant to get on board with sanctions, regimes, that kind of thing, but a poll today or yesterday showed that 78 percent of the Dutch now support sanctions against Russia, even if that means it will hurt the Dutch economy. So I think that is a real expression of Dutch outrage at this point.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. The question is, how close is the Dutch government from suggesting stronger sanctions against Russia?

DICKEY: Well, you know, I think it's being pushed steadily, day by day. I think every time these planes arrive, every time the Dutch people see these bodies coming home, every time they have to think about what happened when those bodies were lying in the fields of Ukraine and some of them may still be lying in the fields of the Ukraine, I think that builds up a kind of popular emotion that really no politician can resist especially not at this point.

I think it will see some action, I'm not sure what it is, but the Russians, you know, they add insult to injury. One of the Russian news agencies is reporting that Dutch companies are anxious to do business in Crimea, which was, of course, part of the Ukraine that was seized by Russia a few months ago, and, you know, I think the Dutch just look at that and say no, no, no, we're not -- we can't play this game with Moscow anymore.

COSTELLO: I want to head back out to Eastern Ukraine and check in with Nick Paton Walsh because he's at the train station where these bodies have been taken before they're -- before being flown to the Netherlands. How many more planes will take off from Ukraine and arrive in the Netherlands?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there have been two today, carol. I'm not at the train station, but in the city of Kharkiv. Across here many locations where international experts are working as hard as they can. Tomorrow may be the last load of planes, they hope. Today 74 coffins were taken out. As yesterday, when 40 were taken out both by the same Dutch C-130 cargo plane, Australian C-17 cargo plane.

They hope that tomorrow a similar load will be made to the Netherlands and again today is expected to be a very sombre procession of hearses from the airfield where they will land to the military base where testing by Dutch and other international experts will begin on the what have been taken from the refrigerated train from the crash site, separatist held territory here, controlled by the Ukrainian government.

It's an extraordinarily complex and I have to say grim in the details that this task ahead of them. They're moving through this refrigerated train. They told us recently they opened up the third of four refrigerated wagons and as they do that, they take out body bags and put sometimes more than one body bag into a coffin. So when we say 74 coffins, doesn't mean each one represents one individual.

It means that part of the job here is to take as much -- everything they can from this train, back to the Netherlands and then assess how many people were actually on that train and then perhaps work out how many sadly may still be lying around the crash site, an area caught in a civil war, hard to secure.

A special representative of the Australian prime minister is trying to head there this afternoon and so are 50 Australian police officers, an effort to secure it, but as I say, a very volatile area in which it lies -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, many thanks.

I have to get to more breaking news. Unfortunately this morning, a U.N. relief agency says multiple people have been killed following an Israeli attack on a shelter in Gaza. We're joined by Karl Penhaul, he is in Gaza City and Ian Lee who joins us by phone. Karl, first tell us what happened?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, this attack has taken place in the last hour and a half. The attack was on a school operated by the United Nations and these schools all across the Gaza strip have been used to house hundreds of Palestinians who have literally fled their own homes because they are too dangerous to stay in because of the fighting between Hamas and Israel.

Now as I say, an hour and a half ago, artillery fired, apparently from the Israeli side according to the United Nations, fell on that school. My colleague, Ian Lee, who is down at the hospital says that medics have told him at least 12 people killed and scores wounded. I'm hearing from another of our journalist sources down there that the death toll could be at least 15 with at least 170 people wounded.

These are all civilians. These are all people who were sheltering in that United Nations school. Now, taking you on to the United Nations, there have been just in the last few moments some tweets from the United Nations Relief Agency spokesman and I'm going to read them to you because we need here to be very precise so that we don't appear to be laying the blame. OK.

So what U.N. spokesman first tweeted, confirm, multiple dead and injured designated United Nations shelter in the town. Then he went on to tweet a few seconds later, precise coordinates of the U.N. shelter had been formally given to the Israeli Army and the third tweet a few seconds after that, over the course of the day, the U.N. tried two times to coordinate with the Israeli Army, a window to evacuate the civilians. That window was never granted. So from those three tweets, excuse me, from those three tweets the United Nations is telling us quite clearly that there are multiple dead and injured. That they tried to coordinate with the Israeli military to get those people out because they realize they were in harm's way.

And from the language the United Nations is using it appears that the artillery fire came from the Israeli side. Let's put this in perspective. Over the last few days, over the last three days, this is the third school in three days that has been hit by Israeli artillery fire according to the United Nations. This is the first time, however, that there have been fatalities.

On the Hamas militant side also in the last few days, the United Nations has accused the militants of using at least two schools to store weapons and to store their rocket arsenals in as well. But, of course, this must stop. These civilians are protected by the international rules of war. They should be protected from all the warring sides.

What the United Nations here is clearly saying is that the coordinates, the geographic coordinates of that school had been passed to the Israeli military, those people should have been safe in that school and at the very least the Israeli military should have allowed those civilians to be evacuated in the course of the day, but the U.N. says that that window for evacuation was never aloud -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Karl Penhaul, thanks so much. I want to go to Ian Lee on the phone. He is traveling to a U.N. building that came under attack. Ian, tell us more?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, Carol, we were at that U.N. building, but quickly we were ushered away as there were people afraid that another attack could happen, could be coming quickly. We went to a nearby hospital where some of the injured, some of the dead were taken. They showed us the morgue.

They said there was at least three bodies that I counted that they said were from that school attack. This is what the paramedics were telling me. We went to another hospital, a larger hospital, where more people were taken after the attack here at this morgue, the paramedics are telling me at least eight people.

When I'm looking at the injured people, I'm noticing a lot of women and children who are among those who have been hit. This hospital, a lot of those people are being put in open spaces. There's just not enough room to hold all the people here and it really is quite a chaotic feat. A lot of family members who are looking for their relatives wanting to know if they are injured or if they have been killed.

A lot of people -- a lot of raw emotion here. People fainting when they do learn about the fate of their loved one. But really, right now, a lot of people are outside the morgue and they're waiting for the loved ones to be released and that's because they need to bury them before the sun sets according to Islamic ritual. There's a lot of people who are just wondering how a U.N. school could be hit and as we heard from Karl, that the U.N. is saying that these rounds came from Israel and the people here are wondering how this could be. They were told that they would be safe at a U.N. School and I've been to U.N. -- other U.N. schools and seen them and a lot of these people are bunkering down.

They bring their entire families into them to wait out this war and when they hear of a U.N. school being hit, there's a lot of uncertainty about people's safety. What we're hearing from the U.N. over 140 people are in these schools. Right now there's a lot of questions about how this could happen -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm sure you'll stay with this story. Ian Lee, Karl Penhaul, many thanks to both of you. I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: U.S. flights coming in and out of Tel Aviv's airport have once again been given the go ahead by the FAA. Europe's air safety agency is following suit, clearing airlines to land in Israel at their own risk. The question is, is this too soon to lift the ban? This is what Martin Savidge saw in the skies over Ben Gurion Airport just moments before doing a live report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wow. That one is right over the airport.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It was headed toward the airport. That rocket intercepted by Israel's famed iron dome. The very same kind of rocket that prompted the FAA to tell airlines to stay away from Israel's main airport earlier this week. Martin Savidge joins us live from Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv. So Martin, that had to be a little frightening?

SAVIDGE: Carol, yes, well, of course, the iron dome system is very effective. That tends to keep people a little bit at ease as best they can. I should point out though it's probably not going to ease the minds of air carriers. United says it will come. The rest of them still making up their mind.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Overnight, the FAA reversing its controversial travel ban, removing restrictions on U.S. passenger planes flying to and from Tel Aviv in the face of mounting criticism. The decision coming one and a half days after flights were suspended due to security concerns when a rocket destroyed a home a mile from Ben Gurion airport. Warning sirens prompting this frantic scene later in the day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bomb shelters and it was terrifying. SAVIDGE: According to a statement, the FAA says it worked with the U.S. government to assess the security situation in Israel and review both significant and new information and measures the government of Israel is taking to mitigate potential risks to civil aviation. Since the ban was enacted, Israeli officials have lobbied the U.S. government to reverse its decision, insisting that the airport is safe.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We protect this airport. There's no reason whatsoever for the mistaken FAA decision to instruct American planes not to come here.

SAVIDGE: While Hamas continued to tout the decision as a great achievement saying, isolating Israel from the world is a great victory for the resistance and a destruction of the enemy's dignity. Earlier Wednesday, former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg called the ban a mistake in a conversation with CNN's Wolf Blitzer after traveling to Israel in a show of support.

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: You have to take a reasonable precaution, but you cannot shut down everything just because one terrorist some place on the other side of the world says I'm going to be a threat.

SAVIDGE: Meanwhile, Secretary of State John Kerry travelled to the region on a military jet Wednesday to press ahead with cease-fire talks with both sides. As the death toll on both sides of the conflict continues to grow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: And normally you would see those U.S. airlines located right behind me in the departure area of Ben Gurion Airport. Whenever they start flying again, it will be some time before they are here. It takes a while to get the system going again. We may not see them until tomorrow or some airlines maybe until the next day after that.

And then the next question, Carol, who's really going to be on board those planes because a lot of the tourists that normally this is peak season would be here, are just staying away because they fear the conflict -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Martin Savidge reporting live from Israel this morning.

So let's talk a bit more about this with David Soucie, CNN aviation analyst and former FAA safety inspector. He is also the author of "Why Planes Crash." Good morning, David.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN AVIATION SAFETY ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So some are suggesting, namely Senator Ted Cruz, that the FAA closed or banned flights into and out of Israel for political reasons. Do you think that's true?

SOUCIE: Well, I was with the FAA for 17 years and I never really saw much about final decisions being made politically. When you talk about budgeting and financing within FAA it's all political, but when you talk about the decisions of safety, those are well mandated the processes and procedures, I think Mr. Bloomberg needs to read those federal aviation regulations because this was not a choice for the FAA.

The FAA had a safety identification with a risk and high probably and a high impact if it did occur that requires the FAA to shut down that airport for 24 hours. It has to have significant or new information, just as the statement said, in order to reverse that. So evidently there was something that we're not aware of.

And I can see why not because a lot of this has to do with defense systems, which you don't want to publicly broadcast, of course, so I think that this is a great move on the FAA. They did it exactly by the book like they're supposed to and it promotes an idea that anyone within this system -- because we're all part of the aviation system -- anyone within the system can raise a white flag and is free to do that without punishment or retribution.

Raise a white flag and say I feel that this is a risk that needs to be addressed right now and the FAA supports that from bottom to top and top to bottom.

COSTELLO: OK. So I was going to ask you this question, why is it safe today and it wasn't safe yesterday? But you say they examined something about Israel's defense systems and they found that there's absolutely no way possible that a rocket could hit a plane?

SOUCIE: Well, evidently they must have. Now, the challenge goes further than that, though. Because even though the FAA, remember, the FAA is a regulatory body. You can exceed those standards and many airlines do, but all of the airlines meet those minimum standards. So what happens now you have risk assessments that are done.

That can actually affect not only operations as you can see United has flown in there, done a risk assessment. They may have different mitigation, in other words, different ways to prevent or avoid the risk than other airlines do. So it doesn't mean that United is taking more risk or not.

What it means is that United has done their assessment, which is the same valued assessment of risk that every carrier is mandated to do through the safety management systems, so they've done that and just means that United has found some other way to mitigate that risk to a level that they feel is very safe.

Because if they don't do that, their insurance could be in danger. Their coverage on their insurance. Clearly they've figured this out and got through that hurdle with their insurance carrier as well.

COSTELLO: Because United, they resumed flights into and out of Israel, but as far as we know, U.S. Air and Delta have not. In your professional opinion, would you fly into Israel and feel perfectly comfortable? SOUCIE: You know, I would, but I'd have to do some research before I went there. This is kind of an important piece that I like people to know, that there's several web sites out there, go to faa.gov and get as much information as you want about the flights. We've come to take flying for granted and I'm not recommending anyone quit flying or not fly.

But I recommend that you manage your own risk, that you take care of your own knowledge and make sure that you are making a knowledgeable and informed decision about when you fly, where you fly and who you fly with.

COSTELLO: Good advice. David Soucie, thanks so much.

SOUCIE: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

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