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Violence in Ukraine Halts Flight MH17 Investigation; Will New Video Be a Game-Changer in Mideast?; Will Justice Be Served in MH-17 Crash?; Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Aired July 27, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Now, our international viewers, we're returning you to CNNI programming now.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Deborah Feyerick.

MARQUEZ: And I'm Miguel Marquez.

This hour, we are fast-forwarding to the week ahead.

FEYERICK: We'll take a look at all the stories that you will be talking about and hearing about in the coming week. Let's begin with our five questions for the week ahead on two major stories.

Question number one: will the Ukraine war ruin the investigation of Flight 17? Dutch investigators are ready to go and start sifting through the evidence but they are being told it is simply too dangerous. Thirteen people were killed just today, including two children, when rockets fired into suburban neighborhood. How long is all this going to last and will it effect the accuracy of the MH17 investigation?

MARQUEZ: And question number two, will a brand-new video be a game changer in the Middle East conflict? Just today, Israel rejected blame for recent deaths at a Gaza school. I want to show you this, just into CNN from the IDF, the Israeli defense force. Israel says it accidentally fired a single mortar at the school, the U.N. school on Thursday. And the school was empty at the time.

Israel offered up this video to back up its claim. Hamas says I real bombed the school, killing 16 people injuring many more. We will bring you live reporting from Jerusalem and Gaza tackling this crucial situation.

FEYERICK: And question number three, will the families of the Malaysia Airlines victims shot out of the sky get any justice? All 298 people on board the downed airliner were killed. But with little evidence collected and no one taking responsibility, what legal options are on the table for the victims' loved ones?

MARQUEZ: And question number four, for people in Gaza, will conditions improve this week? We will talk to a Palestinian blogger and museum curator who is documenting her life as she waits and listens for fresh explosions and shelling. Every time the phone rings, she worries another friend or family member may have been killed. She will describe how living in constant fear of attack is affecting her ability to function. Do not miss this interview less than 30 minutes away.

FEYERICK: And question number five: where is the urgency in Washington? Congress is preparing to take its usual August recess and the president has an August vacation planned, but with flare ups in global hotspots, like the Middle East and Ukraine, shouldn't there be a little more action in the nation's capital? We will talk with a California congressman in just a few minutes.

And investigators hoping to get a glimpse of the MH17 crash site may have to wait even longer.

MARQUEZ: More than a dozen people were killed today as rockets fired into a suburban neighborhood, as our own Nick Paton Walsh reports. It made for a frustrating day for Dutch investigators waiting just to do their job.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miguel, just been with some of the Dutch police who have had a very frustrating day ending here in the city of Donetsk. They travelled south to a dangerous area and then tried to move east towards the crash site, and despite negotiations between the OSCE monitors trying to assess their access to the site and separatists, they had to turn back because they saw shelling on the roads and it was clearly unsafe. They tried it later on, a smaller team, that, too, didn't work.

So despite all the international pressure, they are struggling still to reach the crash site. And they are going to try again tomorrow, they say. But the fear is we are seeing a real uptick in violence here. Just around the city tonight, we have heard the multiple thump of rockets landing. It's clear the Ukrainian army is pushing south fast. They are really heavily attacking a town to the north of where I'm standing, where 13 people have died. And it appears, too, that they are moving toward the south of the city, possibly in the direction of the crash site itself.

So, a real uptick in the military pace here. Also, a lot of pressure on the international investigators to get to the site, to get answers for the relatives, the victims of MH17, but above all New Orleans, let up in the violence here that can actually create the conditions for that detailed forensic work on the ground -- Deb, Miguel.

MARQUEZ: Nick Paton Walsh for us -- thank you very much. Keep yourself safe there.

We're going to be right back to discuss lots more of this coming up very soon.

FEYERICK: Absolutely.

And what happened in Israel, specifically with the shelling of a U.S. school, that, Israel answering for, but not taking full blame, saying Hamas shares in it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: And let's go back to question number two coming up this week. Will a brand-new video from Israel's military be a game changer in the Mideast east conflict?

I want to bring in correspondent Sara Sidner in Jerusalem.

And, Sara, we listened to the spokesperson, Mark Regev, the spokesperson, speak earlier in the show. It goes back to whether Hamas was using the area of the school to shoot at Israelis, and if so, were they right to fire this mortar? What are we learning now from the video and also the explanation that's been presented by the Israelis as to what happened here?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let me speak first to your question do we know that Hamas has been firing rock from that school. It is clear, and even the Israelis say that they do not believe a rocket was fired from the school itself. They said in the vicinity.

So, somewhere around the school, but not from the school itself. That is what we got from the IDF and Mr. Regev, who is the Israeli spokesperson for the prime minister.

Let me walk you through this video. We're going to put the video up to show you what we were able to see. This is IDF video, what it shows, the very high vantage point, looking down upon Beit Hanoun. This is the area where the school is. There were people inside.

Now, what you will see is you will see on the top right corner, a hit and what it looks like is there's some dirt that's kicked up once that mortar fell. That mortar just fell, so you can see it there.

OK. So that is the courtyard, according to Israel, the courtyard of that U.N.-run school. And what Israel is saying that from their vantage point and from what they can assess from the video that they have, is that there was no one in that courtyard.

And what Israel is saying is, from their vantage point and from what they can assess therefore, they believe and they are adamant about this, that they did not kill anyone with what they said was an errant mortar. In other words, an accidental shooting that landed right there in that courtyard.

Now, they did though clarify when asked about whether anyone could have been injured from the shrapnel, which usually spreads out and they said, well, actually, there could have been injuries. Now the question that we have that has not been answered yet is how can they tell if someone is simply injured by shrapnel from that vantage point or killed by shrapnel? Because as you know, a human body can easily be killed by shrapnel, depending where it hits.

We're still waiting for answers for that we know hearing from the Israeli prime minister spokesman, Mark Regev, that the inquiry is not necessarily yet over, that there may be more to come and that these investigations usually take quite some time, but the initial inquiry that we got today, Israel saying the IDF did accidentally fire a mortar into that school, into the courtyard, but they say the courtyard was empty and that no one was killed by their mortar.

MARQUEZ: Sara, it's clear looking at those pictures, that it is hard to see anybody in the courtyard, but there are shaded areas where you would not be able to see individuals. And it appears that there is a corridor with the trees, just off to the right of where that corridor went off. And if this was a U.N.-safe area, that's probably where a lot of people would have been that time of the day.

Are the Israelis saying that it was not their mortar at all that killed a number of people? Because, obviously, we have had people on the ground there, we -- they have seen only indication of a single strike to that area. No other indication that something struck there, are the Israelis saying that somehow, some other munitions could have killed the individuals in that school, whether it was set off from inside the school or from outside or that those injuries are from some other location?

SIDNER: They are only saying what I told you, and that is that they do not believe that they killed anyone, that mortar that landed in the courtyard killed anyone. We do know from the health ministry in Gaza, 16 people according to the health ministry were killed in that school area. We don't know exactly where they were, but we do know that a lot of people are wondering how it's possible that there was a strike inside that school and that nobody was killed from that particular mortar.

I also want to mention someone else. You notice the high vantage point of that, and that it is very grainy, gritty video. Very hard for someone who is a layperson, for sure, to decide what it is you can and can't see, because in that entire Beit Hanoun area, hovering over that area, you can't see anything moving. You can't see a car, you can't see a person, you can't see anything.

So, it's very hard to determine just how high up it is and if, indeed, there was anyone there, because we know that there were people in the school. You cannot see that. It was the middle of the afternoon. Somewhere around 2:55 that this reported strike happened. And it's a very hot there, but we know that children have been out to play.

We just don't know from that video, it's just very hard for us to tell, impossible for us to tell if indeed there was someone or not in that courtyard or if people were hit from the shrapnel standing just in the school because you'll notice the shrapnel goes down and a lot of it bursts out to the left and there is part of the school building there.

There is still a lot to be known about this particular incident and a lot of questions. And I have to tell you, from the Palestinians' vantage point, the answers that Israel is giving as to whether or not they are responsible, saying they aren't, are causing more controversy than the actual attack itself.

FEYERICK: All right. Sara Sidner, thanks so much. We want to bring in to discuss the CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, and former CNN operative, Bob Baer.

The first question I have, the Israeli spokesperson said, Mark Regev said that in the fog of war, sometimes it's hard to know who is shooting who and where the damage is coming.

Let's distinguish the injuries as opposed to a deliberate targeting, because in war, people get hurt, sometimes accidentally, sometimes deliberately. Is this the distinguishing factor that Israel is trying to make right now, that they did drop that mortar, but it was not targeting that school?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Right, well, they said it was an errant round. So, it was fired probably not at -- probably not aiming at this particular target. That's what it happened to hit.

And you can see from the blast affect there it looks like a mortar -- I mean, it's pretty clear, because a mortar comes almost straight down, all the energy is concentrated in one spot and see the blast ring go out.

FEYERICK: A mushroom almost.

FRANCONA: A perfect ring. That's mortar.

FEYERICK: OK.

FRANCONA: But the Israelis were firing at that target, probably put more mortars in there than just one. So, this was probably one of a series of mortars that were fired at a target. This one happened to go off and landed in this area.

MARQUEZ: Yes, Israelis saying that they fired five mortars, one was errant and went off and hit this area, this is the video they have for it.

Bob, when you look at this video, I hope you have been able to see it this, is this the sort of video that would be consistent with the injuries and the deaths we've seen in that -- in that school?

BOB BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: Well, Miguel, first of all, the resolution is bad on it. I don't know if the Israelis have other overhead coverage which could tell us -- gives a better picture of what happened. But certainly, a mortar with a proximity fuse would have caused casualties. As mentioned had, people could have been in the shade. But with better photography, we'd know.

But, you know, frankly, when the Israelis, we have to get back to the basics of this conflict. When you go into the Gaza, it's a very tight area and when you come in with heavy force, you will kill civilians. When that decision was made, the Israelis knew they would. When the Hamas started firing mortar rounds, they knew this was going to happen, so there's no way to make pinpoint strikes in Gaza and errant mortars do happen.

My training, Fort Bragg, the same thing happened, killed some soldiers by accident. So, you know, it's unfortunate in this conflict. And the only way to stop killing civilians is to stop the conflict.

MARQUEZ: All right. Gentlemen, we are going to keep you right where you are.

For the people of Gaza, these are perilous times and terrifying. Ahead, we will speak with Karl Penhaul who visited the school we are talking about now. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUEZ: Now, we are back with special coverage of the Mideast conflict. Israel is rejecting blame for any deaths near Gaza school run by the United Nations. Israel's military is offering up one video as proof. Israel says it fired one errant mortar and the school was empty at the time.

I want to bring in correspondent Karl Penhaul. He is in Gaza.

Karl, we have this video, we created a still of it. And you have been to that school. We see this hit right in the -- what appears to be the center of a courtyard.

Can you tell us -- you had talked earlier about the shadows around that mortar strike. Can you tell us and sort of walk us through what is around on the left and on the right of where that mortar round struck?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That courtyard is a space and where you see that mortar round explode, that's the center left of the courtyard, because just further left to that courtyard is an area of softer ground, of dirt, separated from the main courtyard by a railing. Down what is the bottom right hand corner of why you are building, that's -- of your picture, that is one of the main school structures and then right up at the top, that is another of the school's main buildings.

Now, when we have been to previous other U.N. schools that are serving as shelters in the past few days what we observed at the hottest times of day is that the displaced people will perhaps pull out some of the desks or simply sit on blankets up against the walls in the shade or they may go into the airy, large corridors of the school and hang out there as well to get a bit of respite from the heat. And bear in mind that this strike took place at around 3 p.m. or 3:30 p.m. in the afternoon, it was a very hot time of day.

What we observed in the ground at the school is, in fact, the shrapnel had spread in a 30-yard or 40-yard radius from the point of impact, impacted the walls of the main building, and we also saw pools of blood, scraps of clothing there. We also saw pools of blood and scraps of clothing right down the corridors of the internal part of the school and also saw evidence that shrapnel had penetrated the front door of that school, Miguel.

MARQUEZ: So, consistent with the sort of injuries and deaths that we saw from that one mortar strike, even if it is an errant and accidental strike. Has Hamas reacted at all to Israel about claims about this errant mortar, as they are calling it?

PENHAUL: Not specifically to the latest Israeli military statement. But Hamas' position all along was that this was a strike by the Israeli military. What both the United Nations and the Israeli military have said and nobody seems to be disputing that fact, is in the area of that part of Gaza, northeastern Gaza, Beit Hanoun, that there had been heavy fighting between the two sides, the Israeli military spells it out more, and says that it was coming under fire from anti-tank missiles by Hamas fighters.

And we do know that on the one hand, Israel had its Merkava tanks in that part of northeastern Gaza and also know that Hamas fight verse Russian-made Kornet anti-tank missiles that they have been using, sometimes with pretty good effect, against the Israeli military. So, that seems to be the background why this fight broke out and the Israelis saying that errant missile fell into the school.

But what they are casting doubt on is whether actually civilians were in that school at the time and on that point, the United Nations has said quite clearly to me tonight in reaction to the Israeli military statement, let me just read it to you, the United Nations said, "The Israeli military was aware that the school was being used as a shelter for hundreds of people. We wanted to evacuate them, but we never got approval for that from the Israeli military," Miguel.

MARQUEZ: All right. Karl Penhaul for us in Gaza City. Keep yourself safe out there. Thank you.

FEYERICK: All right. And we want to go back to CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, and former CIA officer, Bob Baer.

One question, Colonel, I want to ask, is thank is that Israel said, yes, we dropped a mortar. Perhaps they should have gone one step further and suggested that if there were people there, then there would have been a high degree of possibility that some of them were injured and perhaps killed. Would that have been the sort of middle ground, because it seems like we are splitting hairs here -- yes, they dropped it, but nobody was hurt, nobody was killed.

FRANCONA: Well, they don't know. They admit they had dropped a mortar round in there, but how could they possibly know if anybody was further away from the blast than what they could see there?

And Karl makes a good point, I mean, there are areas of -- that area of that school that we can't see from this overhead. Now, maybe they have other sensors that they are relying on, but from what we're seeing here, looks like an errant mortar dropped into this courtyard, people may have been injured or killed there, we don't know. So, they should probably let that up to the investigation that comes later.

FEYERICK: Right.

And, Bob, interesting also is that there seems to be a fundamental lack of trust on all sides. Technically, Israel could have gone to the U.N. and said were there people there? It doesn't appear they did that and so, you're getting different

stories from different sides and will we ever know the truth of what happened there further down the road? Certainly not in the near future it seems.

BAER: I've always found the U.N. to be reliable in Gaza and the people that work there are dedicated and it's not something they would make up on behalf of Hamas. It's unlikely.

And I know why the Israelis don't like the U.N. I mean, they accused them of bringing in supply in return for war materiel and things like that. So, there is -- yes, you're right, absolute lack of trust. But again, I go back to the fact that the Israelis cannot help but kill civilians in a war this -- this wide, you know, girth of the war. It's just inevitable and I'm sure it happened in the school, they killed people there, those mortars are very deadly and you there are people we can't see that were hit in the shade.

MARQUEZ: Colonel, this is one incident of many now. There will be more incidents as you apply this sort of pressure in this small area.

In your best judgment and estimation, what is the end game for the Israelis right now? How far are they willing to push this and how high a price, in civilian casualties, Israeli casualties and in the international community?

FRANCONA: This is the calculus that the Israelis have to go through. They know that they are going to lose the PR war. They know the world opinion is going to be against them.

But they have -- they have a set of goals that they want to meet, the stopping of the rocket fire around the destruction of those tunnels. It looks like the destruction of the tunnels is their priority number one right now and they are going to continue to do that. They have got -- they are so far invested in this right now, they almost cannot stop.

So, they are willing to take the blame for some of these accidents and they are -- actually, they are willing to inflict more of these accidents. There will be more.

Bob is absolutely right. This is the most densely populated area in the world. If you're going to put high -- high-explosive munitions into these areas, unfortunately, innocent people are going to get killed. The Israelis have to know that, they factor that into their planning and unfortunately, this is what we deal with.

MARQUEZ: Bob, with regard to the tunnels, the Israelis have continued their work to destroy those tunnels, even during some of these cease- fires that have occurred. How much farther do you sense that they are going to push this?

BAER: I think we're weeks away from the end of a conflict, unless some sort of miracle occurs, some sort of diplomatic intervention. You know, finding these tunnels, they are dug under houses, they are not obvious, you've got to go from building to building. You can't -- you can't discover them remotely.

So, if the Israelis, in fact, will do a complete job, we are weeks away.

MARQUEZ: But is it your sense that they are through the bulk of the tunnels? I mean, I would -- I would guess or hazard a guess that they may have found most, if not all of them by now.

BAER: I think they have probably found a lot of them. They certainly have, you know, were dozens we are talking about, yes, but they want to get every last one. The problem is they can't, you know?

And even if we do get through this conflict, not much worse than it is what's going to happen a year from now, two years when they rebuild these tunnels, and that's precisely what the Palestinians intend, until there's some sort of settlement.

MARQUEZ: All right. Bob Baer, Colonel Rick Francona, thank you very much. We will be right back with much more coming right up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: 298 people are dead, innocent victims of a brutal conflict between Russia and Ukraine. But with no single person to blame.

Our question number three for this week, will the victims' families every get any sort of justice? What's the best legal recourse for these families.

Let's bring back CNN military analyst, Lt. Col. Rick Francona. Also with us, aviation attorney, Justin Green.

Justin, look, the families could get together. The families could basically say, we want to sue Putin, we want to sue the Russian government, we want to sue the pro-Russian separatists, assuming they are responsible, maybe even the Ukraine. Is that the way to go? Could they mount this massive class action against countries?

JUSTIN GREEN, AVIATION ATTORNEY: Let me just say, first of all, getting together is a really good idea because family groups have a lot of power once they get together and work towards a name. Now class action, at least in the U.S., is probably not going to work because this isn't really a proper class action.

FEYERICK: OK.

GREEN: Suing Putin or suing Russia in the United States is probably not going to work because they are entitled to sovereign immunity. Right now the only party that's clearly liable to the families is Malaysia Airlines.

FEYERICK: OK. And we talk about the Montreal Convention, which essentially --

GREEN: That's right. FEYERICK: -- would even limit the amount of damages to $150,000,

assuming that they don't -- there are some greater legal responsibility. But if they are found to be negligent flying over that airspace, which other planes avoided, could they -- could Malaysia Air have to pay out much more than this $150,000 per head, so to speak?

GREEN: Right. $150,000 is a limit. So each family would have to prove they suffered damages up to that limit. Above that limit, the airline could only basically enjoy that limit if it proves that it was not negligent. It's not the families' burden, it's the airline has to come in and says look, we didn't do anything wrong or they have to say that the people on the ground are wholly responsible for this and people like me. Plaintiffs' lawyers like me are going to come in and say, you shouldn't have been flying in the area, and that's the main negligence on behalf of the airline.

FEYERICK: And, Colonel, let's go to Putin, I mean, let's think about him. Right on Friday, the U.S. basically said Putin bears culpability, that if he didn't directly give the order or directly push the button or have somebody do it he provided the anti-aircraft missiles, so is that a possibility, make a statement, go after Russian assets?

FRANCONA: Well, you can say that Putin provided the SA-11 to the separatists but we still don't know who pushed the button, who was running that system. Was it being manned by some Russian special forces, was it being manned by separatists or was it a combination of the both?

So, failing that, we don't know actually who actually is responsible for the downing of it. So you could go back to Putin, but going back to the airline question, you know, just the four-day or three days before this airline was shot down, there was a -- there was Ukrainian military aircraft shut down at 21,000 feet, 21,000 feet is above the shoulder-fired missile capability. So there was something new in the area and that does raise the question, why were they there?

FEYERICK: Which is what really what Miguel was talking about earlier with one of our guests, which is at what point does airspace become unflyable, where you don't penetrate it? When you think about all that has happened, the sanctions that we are looking at. If sanctions were imposed, could there also be money that's set aside so that the families at least get some compensation?

Wouldn't that go a long way to -- it seems like a good PR strategy, that's what the Americans did after the U.S. Navy blew an Iranian airplane out of the sky, so, what about something like that? Could Vladimir Putin, Justin, offer some sort of money to basically say, if we played a role, then we are sorry?

GREEN: Right. After the Iran Air 655 the U.S. paid the families, it was a voluntary payment. It was done not because of legal liability, but really because of international pressure and because it was the right thing to do, and that's the same kind of decision that Russia's looking at right now. Should we do the right thing, assuming the investigation plays out the way everyone's thinking? And it's really not so much legal liability but it's public relations liability, it's diplomatic liability and sanctions. He may need to pay the families to get some of the sanctions lifted at some point.

FEYERICK: So the pressure -- it was exactly what Libya had to do basically.

GREEN: That's right.

FEYERICK: When Libya cracked and caved and paid the U.S. after that airline was shot down because of the fact the sanctions were just too overwhelming.

GREEN: Right. And the families in that case never gave up. And I would just say to the Malaysian Air families never give up because I think at some point, when this whole story is told, they will get some justice. Never enough.

FEYERICK: Yes. And it was so interesting because we spoke to -- earlier this week, we spoke to a woman whose husband was killed on board Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie. And she said, you know, just getting those answers, getting the responses from the governments, that's what justice is all about. And to never stop fighting for that justice.

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, Justin Green, thanks so much.

GREEN: Thank you.

MARQUEZ: All right. And Ukraine -- Ukraine, Gaza, huge hotspots around the world, and the U.S. is basically standing on the sidelines. Why no action? We'll ask a congressman ahead why Washington isn't doing anything.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FEYERICK: It's that time of year again, time for Washington to clear out for summer vacation. Congress is going to spend the month of August on its annual recess. And President Obama's expected to spend a few of the same weeks in Martha's Vineyard, which kind of leads us to ask the question, shouldn't someone be working on the situations involving Israel and Gaza or Russia and Ukraine or even the immigration crisis along the U.S./Mexican border?

There's a lot of stuff going on.

Well, let's ask one of those members of Congress, Democrat Adam Schiff of California, a senior member of the House Intelligence Committee.

And Congressman, so great to see you. I think people -- look, everybody wants a vacation, but with so much going wrong and with so much possibility of things that have to get done, should somebody, like, in Congress or the president stay behind?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: I agree with you, particularly when there are several domestic issues where Congress really could make a difference, like the crisis over the unaccompanied minors. We shouldn't recess while there is important work to be done. I think that's a big mistake. But the legislative leadership, the speaker has decided to send us into recess, though I have to say for most of us, it's not much of a vacation. It simply means we're working in our district, but your point is very well taken and I don't think we should be in recess.

MARQUEZ: Congressman, there is so much going on right now, in Ukraine, obviously, in the Middle East. Should the president be pushing harder and what is it like to be in Washington right now where most of America looks at it and nothing gets done? There's not even a conversation going on in Washington, when all these very important issues are pushing internationally?

SCHIFF: Well, certainly a great deal of frustration and anxiety about what's going on around the world. I mean, every day, there seems to be a new conflagration, most recently, with the tragic downing of that Malaysia plane, Ukraine. But we just had to evacuate our embassy in Libya and the mounting death toll in Gaza, but I think the administration has been very proactive in dealing with these crises.

Secretary Kerry has -- was early dispatched to try to work on this. We have been very engaged in the crisis in Ukraine, leading the way on sanctions. It's my hope, turning to that latter crisis that this terrible tragedy of the downing of the civilian plane and the fact that since then Putin has been upping the ante.

MARQUEZ: Yes.

SCHIFF: Shipping more heavy weapons across the border, firing from Russian soil into Ukraine, will prompt Europe to agree on tough sanctions.

MARQUEZ: As you're a member of the Intelligence Committee have -- there are reports out there that the information, the initial information out of those black boxes, indicates that it was hit by shrapnel. It is consistent with a missile strike. Have you seen any of that yourself? Have you heard from any of your colleagues overseas?

SCHIFF: Well, we have certainly gotten briefed on a lot of the intelligence that we have received from our agencies. I don't have any particular insight on the black boxes, but it wouldn't be surprising you if the black boxes are consistent with shrapnel hitting the plane. The footage we have already seen over the wreckage of the plane is consistent with that. And of course, our intelligence, our satellite imagery shows the detonation of a surface-to-air missile.

It shows the explosion in the sky very consistent with that SA system. So there's really no question, I think, about what took place and I think there's no question about Russian complicity. We may not know for some time or at all whether the Russians pushed the trigger themselves but we knew they supplied the equipment and they have been increasing the -- the agitation in Ukraine, they bear a heavy responsibility here. FEYERICK: The former CIA director and secretary of Defense, Robert

Gates, said that it appears that America is disengaging from world politics. Do you see it as such when you're walking around and meeting with these various leaders? Is there a sense that America is heavily involved or is there a sense that America is trying to pull back a little bit?

SCHIFF: There is certainly a sense I think that America's pulling back in terms of a strong presence of American troops in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. And frankly, the American people won't have it any other way after more than a decade of warfare but we're not pulling back at all in terms of our engagement and we can't. Unfortunately much as I think the American people would like and as a growing isolationist sentiment in the country, when you look around the world at the crises, whether Ukraine, Gaza, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, we have to remain engaged.

We still are, like it or not, the indispensable party here and I think given the activity you see, both the administration and the State Department, we are engaged. Doesn't mean, though, that we can always dictate the outcomes that we want and it certainly doesn't mean that we can dictate them overnight.

MARQUEZ: Benjamin Netanyahu now saying that the Israelis will go as far as necessary to rid Gaza of Hamas. We've seen the civilian casualties, it's extraordinarily difficult to take this much force into that small an area and not suffer civilian casualties. What is your sense? How far can they go and what is the end game here?

SCHIFF: Well, I think they are determined to go until they have severely mitigated the tunnel threat. I think that's paramount. I think they recognize they are not going to be able to stay until all the missiles are gone. Hamas just has too many missiles.

MARQUEZ: Even long-range missiles that can hit Tel Aviv or Ben Gurion.

SCHIFF: They're too easy to hide. They would really have to reoccupy Gaza, I think, to absolutely remove that threat. But they can remove the tunnel threat for a time. They can destroy the tunnels that are there now. But you're right. Gaza's a small concentrated space. Hamas makes the casualties worse by operating out of the U.N. facilities, digging tunnels under homes, really daring and begging the Israelis to come in because civilian casualties are part of Hamas agenda. It's part of how they manipulate world opinion.

MARQUEZ: Are you ready to ask Israel to cease for a while, to try to come to some sort of political resolution?

SCHIFF: I think what Secretary Kerry is doing is the right thing which is trying to find out what Israel needs in terms of its security. What is within the realm of doable to bring this violence to an end. At the end of the day, though, Israel is going to do what they needed to protect their people. We would do exactly the same thing.

MARQUEZ: Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you very, very much for being with us.

SCHIFF: You bet.

FEYERICK: And still to come, you see the pictures, rubble, ruins, an area once called the world's largest open-air prison. But what is life like in Gaza? We're going to speak with a woman who is living there. That is coming up, just ahead.

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MARQUEZ: Let's go back do question number four, for people in Gaza, will conditions improve this week? More than 1,000 people have been killed in recent conflict, mostly civilians.

FEYERICK: And our next guest is Palestinian blogger and Gaza Museum of Archaeology curator, Yasmine Elkadari.

Yasmine, when you think about it, Hamas has been using a lot of the money, not for infrastructure but for building tunnels and buying rockets. Is there broad support in Gaza for Hamas and what it is they are doing there in that region?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a big difference between asking that question to someone who lives under occupation and to someone who rarely has the option or the luxury of supporting a political at their own risk. That is not the case in Gaza, as we know. We are occupied by Israel and Hamas came to power by democratic election.

What we have seen for the last seven years Hamas -- Hamas throwing rockets, what we have seen was basically nothing of the (INAUDIBLE) because Israel has (INAUDIBLE) and we haven't had much to see anything but Hamas being the government and Israel being a military power, like has always been.

MARQUEZ: Yasmine, this is Miguel Marquez. Thank you very, very much for being with us. Daily life there, how difficult is it? Look, I think everybody wants this thing to come to an end, but people are curious and concerned about Hamas and its desire to continue to shoot rockets into Israel. And I know it's difficult for you to answer these questions, being where you are, but what is it like to live there and is it possible to have Gaza free of Hamas and perhaps rejoin the world community?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I'm really surprised at your question. It seems to me like you're already picking sides in this conflict. I'm an independent woman in Palestine. I support no party at all. And I'm surprised to hear that you're asking me questions about Hamas, while our real problem is with Israeli occupation. As you know, you know, I am -- I have been living under this for the last 21 days, few weeks. It is impossible for me to describe to you what it's like.

Just try to imagine living in your house, hearing bombs non-stop, 24/7. Not knowing that you have you are safe, not knowing that your family or relatives or friends are safe. We don't have -- like people on the other side of the border. We don't have -- we don't have a -- funded by -- we don't have a siren system. All we have is, you know, just each other, if we are lucky enough to survive. And it's impossible to describe really. Yesterday was the only time we got -- we had the cease-fire was only time we were able to leave the house.

And I win we didn't, because the destruction is so incomprehensible and to say that that's the fault of Hamas is something I do not agree with, not because Hamas is, you know, standing next to me and threatens to mistreat me if I say this, if I say something else, but just speaking logically. As I'm sure you are aware, this is not something about Hamas firing rockets in Gaza. It's much bigger than that. And you know.

FEYERICK: Yasmine, I don't know if you can hear us, but is there a peaceful solution? Do you believe that there is some solution that could benefit the people of the entire region? Do you have faith that that's possible?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will be honest with you, I've been -- was born and I have been living in Gaza almost all of my life and I have seen -- I have lived under three wars. I'm 24 years old, so (INAUDIBLE). I've seen a little bit of the world. I have been to the U.S. a couple of times. I have traveled. And I know what war looks like. But the majority of the people in Gaza, you know, average age in Gaza is 17. And all the children were under this -- the age of 6 years old have already seen three wars, have lived under siege their entire lives.

And these are -- 250,000 people in Gaza. These are the generations, you know, that will lead the future. This generation has seen nothing but siege and war and occupation. If we really think of peace, if we really -- if peace is really what we (INAUDIBLE) then that's a total joke because (INAUDIBLE) and since we don't have peace in Gaza or in Palestine then the images of today are the biggest evidence that this is exactly what Israel has been planning to do.

Today or yesterday something from seven or eight years ago. So I wish I could say there is a peace solution that's possible. We all want to live in peace. We all want security and freedom. And this is what we strive for.

MARQUEZ: Miss Elkadari?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But to be honest -- to see what life is like here for children who will lead the peace process, quote-unquote, if they survive. So (INAUDIBLE), I would be -- I would not be (INAUDIBLE), no.

MARQUEZ: Miss Elkadari, have you personally lost friends and family in the almost three weeks that this has been going on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I haven't lost anyone, thank god, but I have -- I have a friend who actually is a Canadian citizen. She lives with her family in a part of Gaza that we thought was very secure and very -- you know, a neighborhood that's very populated and all families that have nothing to do with Hamas and her house was targeted by an Israeli rocket. And that's -- she was sitting with her brother just a minute before the missile hit. And, you know, my friend is Canadian, her family is Canadian. And I know she's (INAUDIBLE) Palestinian. (CROSSTALK)

MARQUEZ: Yasmine Elkadari, thank you very, very much.

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