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U.N. Demands Hamas, Israel Cease Fire; Clashes Force MH-17 Investigators to Turn Back; Interview with Dr. Bart Jannssens; Michael Oren Doesn't Want the U.S. to Get Involved with Situation in Israel; Tentative Agreement on a Bill to Fix VA Health System

Aired July 28, 2014 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happy birthday, Kate. Have a great day.

NEWSROOM starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, could it be the breakthrough so desperately needed between Israel and Hamas. New talk of a ceasefire as the U.N. holds a late-night emergency session.

Plus the deadliest outbreak of Ebola ever. Now sickens two American aid workers and the fear grows that this African outbreak could spread even more.

And a political push to impeach President Obama. Fiery rhetoric that could derail any talk about immigration reform.

Let's talk, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello, thank you so much for joining me. We begin with the growing crisis in the Middle East. The United Nations Secretary Council held an emergency midnight meeting. The plea, an immediate and unconditional ceasefire.

Also, the latest setback, a temporary truce crumbles with Israel and Hamas trading accusations of who is to blame. And the death toll climbs. More than 1,000 Palestinians have been killed along with 45 Israelis.

This morning, Israel says they're observing an unlimited ceasefire and Washington echoes the calls for peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, SPOKESWOMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: A week ago before Secretary Kerry went to the region. We weren't talking about temporary ceasefires and there wasn't enough engagement with the parties. What we're looking at right now, what we're trying to focus on is short- term ceasefires that can build on each other. The secretary has been closely engaged with Prime Minister Netanyahu, with the Israelis, and encouraging them to agree to short-term ceasefires. We are encouraged by this statement. We'll see what happens over the course of the day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Martin Savidge is in Jerusalem this morning with more for you.

Good morning, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yes, over the weekend I think people had their hopes raised that we would reach some kind of a ceasefire. Certainly, though, it's clear that neither Hamas or the Israelis are listening to much, coming out of the United Nations. It is back to a conflict today here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Early this morning, the United Nations Security Council, convening an emergency meeting, calling for a renewed ceasefire that would allow the delivery of urgently needed assistance into Gaza. But neither side has accepted. Both agreeing to only a few hours of peace and rejecting previous deals for a truce.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We had a ceasefire. They violated it and now they're violating their own ceasefire. And obviously we'll take whatever action is necessary to protect our people.

SAVIDGE: The Israeli military detonating explosives into two tunnels that they say Hamas uses to get fighters into Israel. Secretary of State John Kerry heading home empty handed after six days of exhaustive diplomatic meetings.

On Sunday, President Obama spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by phone condemning attacks from Hamas against Israel and also stressing the need for an immediate ceasefire.

Outrage continues to grow over the number of civilians caught in the crossfire including grade school children injured in Thursday's mortar strike at the United Nations building, which was being used a shelter for Gaza families.

Israel Defense Forces confirmed a single errant mortar landed in the courtyard of the school, but they deny responsibility for any deaths pointing to their footage of the strike and claiming the courtyard was empty at the time of the attack. Officials from the U.N. and the Palestinian government report 16 people were killed and hundreds wounded.

A CNN team visited the shelter several hours after the attack and found evidence of badly injured civilians.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: As you point out, Carol, Israel says it's now adhering to an unlimited ceasefire. It's a bit murky as to what that really means. But Israel says that it will only fire back when fired upon and only fire upon where it was fired from. Its troops will remain in Gaza and it will continue to destroy tunnels. This was not reached with any agreement with Hamas, and Hamas definitely would not look at that as a ceasefire -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Martin Savidge reporting live from Jerusalem this morning.

Later this hour, the U.N. secretary-general is expected to speak out following his trip to the region. Of course we'll monitor what he says and we'll bring you any new developments.

Now to the crisis in Ukraine. Deadly clashes between pro-Russian rebels and Ukrainian troops have brought the Flight 17 investigation to a standstill. This morning a team of investigators and international monitors were forced to abandon plans to visit the crash site because they were scared for their lives.

Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the group that turned back, called into CNN this morning to describe the intense scene and his frustration with the latest delay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, OSCE SPOKESMAN: There's quite a lot of shelling nearby. We took the decision ourselves, consulting with our Dutch and Australian friends to turn the convoy around. It just didn't seem safe to proceed. And we can't -- we can't say this enough, it is unacceptable what happened. The site is vulnerable to natural and manmade factors and we're really sick and tired of being delayed. This is the second day in a row now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: This comes as the U.S. releases satellite images it says proves Russia has been firing across the border into Ukraine. But Russia's foreign minister continues to deny that Moscow played a role in the conflict or had anything to do with the downing of that Malaysian airliner.

Our Nick Paton Walsh was also with those monitors when they turned back. He joins us now live.

Nick, what happened?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we were with those monitors. We stopped from going with them into the town of Shakhtyorsk, it's a key town, because it's about seven kilometers away from the crash site on the road from Donetsk where I'm standing here.

We were stopped at this checkpoint by separatist militants. The OSCE monitoring mission inspectors went on. They tell us they went about another kilometer or so and then were told by the separatists it was time to turn back.

I spoke to the head of the OSCE part of that mission, Alexander Hug. He said that the ground was shaking beneath us because of the strength of the artillery being used. So palpable anger and frustration amongst them. They've been trying this now for two straight days in a row.

And it's interesting to note that while they're making that move, the Ukrainian government announced that one of the towns there that were in progress of an operation to reclaim was Shakhtyorsk itself. We ourselves, we pulled back away from where the separatist militants stopped us. Tried a different route towards it and then heavy shelling came in very close to us there.

There is a very volatile war going on here, Carol. A lot of heavy weapons being used and that really has to make you ask the question what day will it be possible for the monitors to get to that site, for the inspectors to begin their work, forgetting aside all the violence here. There is a key question. There are 298 victims of MH-17, whose families need closure. They want personal belongings back, they want the wreckage inspected for signs of who committed this crime and they want, I'm sad to say, some of the human remains that may still be there back for burial.

It's a long road ahead potentially still and a lot of violence swirling around me as I speak -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Is this a deliberate attempt to keep investigators from the crash site or is it just war springs up around them and that interferes with things? Which is it?

WALSH: Well, I mean, I asked the mission, they won't speculate. But frankly, you look at this, it's so political. Everybody has a stake in this. The separatists would like to remain in control because it makes them feel like they're in control of this, what they call the Donetsk People's Republic. I have to say they seem to be on the back foot pretty much everywhere you look at the moment. They're thinning out in numbers substantially. And, of course, the Ukrainian government, nearly all the signals it's being given, wants to be clear about its Ukrainian territory.

And I think it's fair to say, I'm sure they'll deny this, but they want to be the ones offering the inspectors access to it. But the point is, this bickering, this inability to conduct a ceasefire for the matter of hours each day, that they want to get to the site itself, that is not something which is giving any comfort to the relatives of those who died on MH-17 -- Carol.

COSTELLO: That is for sure.

Nick Paton Walsh reporting live for us this morning.

A second American has tested positive for the deadly Ebola virus in West Africa. This is Nancy Writebol, she's an aid worker who contracted the virus while working in Liberia with the Christian humanitarian group. She's a hygienist who decontaminated patients at a Liberian hospital.

Thirty-three-year-old American doctor, Kent Brantly, is already in isolation. He's fighting the deadly virus, too. Brantly also developed symptoms after working in Liberia.

So how dangerous is this outbreak and could it travel to the United States?

Let's bring in Dr. Bart Janssens, from Doctors Without Borders.

Welcome, sir.

DR. BART JANSSENS, DIR. OF OPERATIONS, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: Pleasure.

COSTELLO: Let's start with the condition of these two Americans. Ebola is often fatal. 90 percent of the cases. How are they doing?

JANSSENS: I don't have the latest update and we are not directly in charge of their well-being. But I hear that they are still -- they're doing well and they're stable for the moment.

COSTELLO: Is there still hope for them to get well?

JANSSENS: Well, it is a good question. We all know that Ebola is a very deadly disease. 80 percent or more can be the mortality, so for sure it is a very, very dramatic situation.

COSTELLO: I must say I admire your organization and the doctors who perform such important work knowing there are dangers out there. It is incredible to me. And I just wanted to say that to you.

JANSSENS: Yes, well, thanks. It's true that MSF, Doctors Without Borders, we do work now in increasingly difficult circumstances. Up to now we have been able to protect all the medical staff through all the measures we have inside and outside the treatment centers. But specifically now in Liberia, I am, myself, as director of the operation, growing increasingly concerned. We are increasingly -- increasing our capacity every week throughout the epidemic area which has now taken over three countries.

But specifically in Liberia but also in Sierra Leone. It's clear that for the first time we've ever fought an epidemic of Ebola, we are not at all any more capable to cover all the needs by ourselves. So there is more need -- more help necessary.

COSTELLO: At what point will you decide that it is time to pull the doctors out?

JANSSENS: Well, for the moment we haven't at all -- considered this, as I said, we have been able to manage to protect our staff and also the local doctors well. But I think now what is necessary is that other -- and other levels of capacity coming into the -- coming into the region is not any more a lonely humanitarian organization that can manage alone the control of this outbreak.

COSTELLO: Some local leaders are spreading rumors that outsiders are conducting experiments on them, as in these doctors, and they're breaking the quarantine. How do you combat something like that?

JANSSENS: Well, you have to know that the Ebola is a very frightful and mysterious disease. And the scale is spreading now. It is obvious that it will create lots of bad news and rumors, which can easily be spread. We hope to continue to manage these rumors in the places where we were. But for the moment, the epidemic continues to spread into new areas, where very few people are present, to even monitor what is going on.

COSTELLO: What is the likelihood of this virus spreading to other countries?

JANSSENS: Well, we have seen it spread into three countries. For sure, it is not impossible if it spreads further in the region. Beyond that, it is difficult to make any speculations. We have said it before, this is an epidemic of Ebola without precedent, and so it is also very difficult to make predictions on where it will go next, but what we need to concentrate on is to get enough capacity in the region, to care for the patients, to stop it spreading further in that part of the world.

COSTELLO: Dr. Bart Jannssens, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the Middle East conflict enters its third week and the United Nations demands a ceasefire. But is anyone listening? We'll talk to a former Israeli ambassador to the U.S. next.

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COSTELLO: President Obama had a talk with the Israeli prime minister and he made no bones about it, hostilities must end now. Israel says it is obeying a cease-fire, but will retaliate if Hamas fires rockets at its people. But it is clear neither side is anywhere near totally ending hostilities, its also becoming increasingly clear there is a rupture between the United States and Israel. With me now, Michael Oren, former Israeli ambassador to the U.S., welcome.

MICHAEL OREN, FMR. ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Good to be with you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Hi, Michael. Nice to have you here. Secretary of State John Kerry has been fervently trying to bring an end to the fighting, but you say he should stay out of it. Why?

OREN: Well, there is a solid consensus of Israelis and this is a society that agrees about just about nothing. Solid sense that this round of fighting with Hamas has to be the last round of fighting. Israel every several years becomes the target of rockets fired, either by Hezbollah, Lebanon, Hamas. In the Gaza Strip Israel goes to battle against the terrorists and then a cease-fire is imposed on Israel, which enables the terrorists to build up their arsenals, to put in bigger rockets, more long range rockets. The terrorists gain legitimacy in the region. Israel loses it in the world. Basically, it is a victory for the terrorists. In order to break the pattern and actually save Palestinian lives in the long run, because the next round will be much, much worse, the idea would be to let Israel deliver a blow to Hamas that will deter Hamas and not only Hamas, but other terrorist groups throughout the whole Middle East.

COSTELLO: So would you say Secretary Kerry is hurting rather than helping?

OREN: Well, I think yesterday there was a big controversy here about whether a draft of a cease-fire proposal that was leaked to the Israeli press, whether that was an early draft of the cease-fire proposal or late draft of the proposal. At the end of the day, Hamas could conclude that it is doing very well. There is a very low bar for terrorist victories here. All they have to do is not lose. They have had for 21 days of fighting, Carol, Hamas is still capable of firing rockets as they did this morning into Southern Israel. If Israel is being condemned in the world, and -- for inflicting civilian casualties, and if there are proposals on the table that seem to give into some of Hamas' demands, like for relieving or easing up Israel's maritime blockade of the Gaza Strip, then Hamas could conclude it is basically won, and that's the message that is going to go out to the entire Middle East. Its a dangerous message , not just for Israel but for the United States as well.

COSTELLO: So, I hear you. You want Israel to crush Hamas, now is the time still and we have to mention the civilians, more than 1,000 people have died. Most of them civilians. Is that worth the cost then?

OREN: I think it is a terrible tragedy. This is where Israel is fighting an enemy that is deeply dug in behind and beneath the civilians. They're firing from amidst the civilians. Israel takes super human measures to try to warn civilians to flee combat areas. But we have had cases now of large numbers of Palestinian civilians surrendering to Israeli troops, saying Hamas says if we try to run away, they're going to shoot us, so take us in. In the long run if you go to another round and another round, each round is going to get increasingly more violent and increasingly costly.

COSTELLO: So you're saying sadly it's worth it?

OREN: I'm saying that there really is no choice. And that Israel didn't want this conflict, Israel is investing in education and the future. Hamas is investing in buying thousands of rockets and building tunnels under the border designed to simply kill Israeli civilians. There is no moral equivalency here.

COSTELLO: I will say this, Michael, that nothing happens in a vacuum. If Israel kills thousands more in Gaza, won't other Arab countries take note and possibly take action? Wouldn't that be dangerous?

OREN: No, I think maybe the message sent out to the Arab world is that Israel will not be -- will not be hit by rockets or not be threatened by terrorist tunnels with impunity. You had a case going on here in this country, which I don't think you've seen in Democratic nations, for many years. 70,000 reservists, men and women, left their homes, left their families, left their jobs, went out, put on ill fitting uniforms for the most part, signed on guns and went out to fight for their nation. It is an amazing moment that something like the minute men during the American Revolution, and it is happening because Israelis understand that they have no choice. There was war weariness in the United States from Iraq and Afghanistan, America brought most of its troops home. We can't afford war weariness in this country. After 66 years of war, and we cannot bring any troops hope because the troops are home. They're fighting for their homes. And I think the average Israelis understand that, and that's why you have the consensus from the people you see behind me.

COSTELLO: Michael Oren, thank you for your insight. I appreciate it.

Later this hour, a different perspective. We'll talk to a Senior Fellow with the American Task Force on Palestine. I'll be right back.

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COSTELLO: Coming together in Washington to help those who served our nation. The chairmen of two congressional committees have reached a tentative agreement on a bill to fix the VA health system.

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COSTELLO (voice-over): It is true. CNN first reported on the problems at the VA involving delayed care, possibly leading to dozens of deaths.

CNN's Chris Frates joins us now.

COSTELLO (on camera): Chris, what do we know about this bill?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, good news on Capitol Hill today. Looks like both the House and the Senate, the Republicans and the Democrats, have come together with a hybrid plan. This plan would do a couple of things. One, there is money in this bill to allow veterans to go outside the system. If they can't get care at a VA health care system they could go see a private doctor. Another thing that this would do is it would give VA some money for internal reforms. Those are the kinds of things that they need to do to clean up.

But the big thing here, Carol, is accountability. There is the ability now in this bill for the VA Secretary to more easily fire up to 500 senior managers. These are career bureaucrats, these aren't political employees, they're very difficult to get rid of under current law. This would give much more accountability to the VA Secretary to get rid of folks who aren't doing the job. This is a big deal, the one big question is how much is this going to cost? We're not quite sure. About 1:30 today there's going to be a joint press conference, between Chairman Sanders in the Senate, Chairman Miller in the House. They're going to detail those plans. But what I can tell you is this has been the big area of disagreement. How much is this going to cost? Democrats want to put more money into this bill. House Republicans want less money. So we will see.

But the one thing we do know to be true, Carol, there has been so much outrage since CNN first broke this story in November that lawmakers really want to get this done before they go home at the end of the week for a five-week August recess.

COSTELLO: I hope they get something done, thank you so much, Chris Frates. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, with only a few days left before

Congress leaves for recess, the White House is working on a massive immigration plan that could be ready by the end of the summer. A live report out of Washington next.

And you can always join the conversation on my Facebook page, Facebook.com/CarolCNN or check out my latest op-ed on Ray Rice, what was the NFL thinking anyway? CNN.com/opinion. I'm back in a minute.

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