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Jerusalem Mayor Speaks To CNN; Obama Comments On Ukraine Crisis

Aired July 29, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: -- should be stepping out to make remarks specifically on Ukraine. All of this as the United States could slap additional sectoral sanction, sanctions hitting specific sectors of Russia. It could be economic, could be military, could be energy sectors of society so stay with me. We're watching and waiting for the president of the United States next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let me remind you we're waiting for the president of the United States to speak from the south lawn, revealing new sanctions against Russia, speaking also about the situation in Eastern Ukraine. So as we wait for the president, let me move on and tell you now three weeks into war, Israel says it is prepared for another cease-fire with Hamas.

A spokesman for Hamas says the group needs some guarantees first. So at this hour, no cease-fire and the only major power plants in the Gaza strip has been racked by a massive explosion. With me now live from the Middle East is Mayor Barkat, he is the mayor of Jerusalem. Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for being with me.

MAYOR NIR BARKAT, JERUSALEM: Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: These Israeli strikes started some three weeks ago. Your government said at the time that Hamas missile firings absolutely had to stop. We know the attacks have not stopped. Tell me what you've been seeing. Have they decreased?

BARKAT: Well, I think the best analogy I can give you in the states is similar to al Qaeda that struck New York in September 11th, we have a group of barbaric terrorists that their charter is to destroy Israel and using indiscriminate rockets to fire at civilians, and they are not interested in negotiating a deal. Their deal is to kill as many Israelis as possible.

Fighting with somebody like that I believe we have to take the approach, the Americans took against Osama Bin Laden. No deal. The militants, the terrorists have to be struck period. And, unfortunately, I feel that sometimes the world falling for trying to create a cease-fire.

The other side is not interested in a cease-fire. We're peace seekers. We want peace. We've done that with Jordan. We've done that with Egypt. They are not interested in peace. They are interested in September 11s, in Jerusalem, in Tel Aviv and all over Israel.

BALDWIN: Speaking of peace on the other side is it not fair to say Israel would like absolutely like to destroy Hamas and has been destroying those tunnels. Hamas military leaders home and other places along the way?

BARKAT: Exactly the same way that the USA went after Osama Bin Laden and will go after all the militants that are trying to kill America. I think it's very, very clear if you don't know how to be very aggressive with the bad guys, you'll never be good with the good guys. We have many Arab neighbors that are peace seekers and we have to work with them and we also have to be extremely aggressive against the bad guys that want to kill us and they are not interested in any deal.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about your city. Let's talk about Jerusalem because it's apparently been a targeted for rocket strikes. But from what we can tell each attempt has been foiled by Israel's missile defense system, the iron dome. So when you see those missile killers launched and you know you're under attack, Mr. Mayor, what is that like? Are you just simply -- are you praying that one of those rockets from Gaza doesn't sneak through the iron dome and hit your city?

BARKAT: It actually shows their ethics and values. A third of the population of Jerusalem is Muslim and a few percent are Christians. Firing indiscriminate rockets at Jerusalem, it could hit Muslim, Jewish or Christian holy sites. They don't care. They don't care if they hit anybody as long as they launch their rockets and create havoc and terror. Thank God, first of all, they missed.

BALDWIN: Are they successful in terrorizing, sir? Are you terrorized? Are Israelis living in a state of trauma as we've heard this word?

BARKAT: Well, thank God, due to smartness of technology of Israeli inventions and by the way strategic relationship and joint venture with America, we have the iron dome. Thank God iron dome is one of the best if not the "best defense" mechanism against indiscriminate rockets coming in to Israel.

Over 90 percent success rate. So, thank God until today they missed Jerusalem. You know, thank God they are not that sharpshooter so they missed. God forbid if they targeted Jerusalem there's no doubt in my mind that iron dome would do the work and so we feel extremely secure and in principle Israelis understand that we have to live our life as normal as possible and not get terrorized.

That's the best, best way to show the terrorists that we're not afraid and we're continuing with our daily work. All the kindergartens and all the employees and all the work and all the events have happened, but two of the larger events that we had to cancel a week and a half ago.

Jerusalem and practically most of the country is practically almost, almost at normal. The only thing I can say is we hug our soldiers. We're burying our soldiers. We love them dearly so it's very difficult for us to see our soldiers are on the front line.

BALDWIN: Mr. Mayor, I have to cut you off. My apologies. The president of the United Sates is about to speak. We'll have someone speaking on behalf of the Palestinians in mere moments. For now, here's President Obama.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: -- tragic loss of nearly 300 loved ones. Senselessly killed when their civilian airliner was shot down over territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine. These grieving families and their nations are our friends and our allies.

And amid our prayers and our outrage the United States continues to do everything in our power to help bring home their loved ones, support the international investigation and make sure justice is done. Since the shoot down, however, Russia and its proxies in Ukraine have failed to cooperate with the investigation and to take the opportunity to pursue a diplomatic solution to the conflict in Ukraine.

These Russian-backed separatists have continued to interfere in the crash investigation and to tamper with the evidence. They have continue to shootdown Ukrainian aircraft in the region and because of their actions scores of Ukrainian civilians continue to die needlessly every day.

Meanwhile Russia continues to support the separatists and encourage them and train them and arm them. Satellite images along with information we declassified in recent days show that forces inside Russia have launched artillery strikes into Ukraine, another major violation of Ukraine's sovereignty.

We have information that Russia continues to build up its own forces near the Ukrainian border. And that more Russian military equipment including artillery, armored vehicles and air defense equipment has been transferred across the border to these separatists.

Since the beginning of the crisis in Ukraine, the United States has worked to build a strong international coalition to support Ukraine, its sovereignty, it's territorial integrity, it's right to determine its own destiny and to increase the pressure on Russia for actions that have undermine sovereignty, territorial integrity and ability to make its own decisions.

The core of that coalition is the United States and our European allies. In recent days I've continued to coordinate closely with our allies and our partners to ensure a unified response to the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and Russia's continued arming of the separatists.

I've spoken several times with Prime Minister Rotev of Netherlands and Prime Minister Abbott of Australia. Yesterday, I had a chance to speak with Prime Minister Cameron of the United Kingdom, the President Long of France, Chancellor Merkel of Germany and Prime Minister Renzy of Italy.

We are united in our view that the situation in Ukraine ought to be resolved diplomatically and a sovereign independent Ukraine is no threat to Russian interests. We also made it clear as I have many times that if Russia continues on its current path the costs on Russia will continue to grow.

And today is a reminder that the United States means what it says. We will rally the international community in standing up for the rights and freedom of people around the world. Today in building on the measures we announced two weeks ago the United States is imposing new sanctions in key sectors of the Russian economy, energy, arms, and finance.

We're blocking the exports of specific goods and technologies to the Russian energy sector. We're expanding our sanctions to more Russian banks and defense companies. We're formally suspending credit that encourages exports to Russia and financing for economic development projects in Russia.

At the same time, the European Union is joining us in imposing major sanctions on Russia. It's most significant and wide ranging sanctions to date. In the financial sector, the E.U. is cutting off certain financing to state-owned banks in Russia.

In the energy sector, the E.U. will stop exporting specific goods and technologies to Russia, which will make it more difficult for Russia to develop its oil resources over the long term. In the defense sector, the E.U. is prohibiting more arms imports and exports and halting the export of sensitive technology to Russian military users.

Because we're closely coordinating our actions with Europe the sanctions we're announcing today will have an even bigger bite. Now Russia's actions in Ukraine and the sanctions that we've already imposed have made a weak Russian economy even weaker.

Foreign investors are increasingly staying away even before our actions today nearly $100 billion in capital was expected to flee Russia. Russia's energy, financial and defense sectors are feeling the pain. Projections for Russian economic growth are down to near zero.

The major sanctions we're announcing today will continue to ratchet up the pressure on Russia including the cronies and companies that are supporting Russia's illegal actions in Ukraine. In other words, today Russia is once again isolating itself from the international community, setting back decades of genuine progress.

It doesn't have to come to this. It didn't have to come to this. It does not have to be this way. This is a choice that Russia and President Putin in particular has made. There continues to be a better choice, the choice of de-escalation, the choice of joining the world in a diplomatic solution to this situation a choice in which Russia recognizes that it can be a good neighbor and trading partner with Ukraine even as Ukraine is also developing ties with Europe and other parts of the world.

I'm going to continue the engage President Putin as well as President Poroshenko and our European partners in pursuit of a diplomatic solution, but it is important for Russia to understand that meanwhile we will continue to support the people of Ukraine who have elected a new president, who have deepened their ties with Europe and the United States, and that the path for a peaceful resolution to this crisis involves recognizing the sovereignty, the territorial integrity and the independence of the Ukrainian people.

Today the people of Ukraine, I hope are seeing once again that the United States keeps its word. We're going to continue to lead the international community in our support for the Ukrainian people and for the peace, the security and the freedom that they very richly deserve. Thanks very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a new cold war, sir?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, it's not a new cold war. What it is, is a very specific issue related to Russia's unwillingness to recognize that Ukraine can chart its own path. And I think that if you listen to President Poroshenko, if you listen to the Ukrainian people they've consistently say they seek good relations with Russia.

What they can't accept is Russia arming separatists who are carrying out terribly destructive activities inside of Ukraine thereby undermining the ability of Ukraine to govern itself peacefully. That's something that no country should have to accept and the sooner that Russians recognize that the best chance for them to have influence inside of Ukraine is by being good neighbors and maintaining trade and commerce.

Rather than trying to dictate what the Ukrainian people can aspire to, rendering Ukraine a basil state to Russia the sooner that President Putin in Russia recognizes that the sooner we can resolve this crisis in ways that doesn't result in the tragic loss of life that we've seen in Eastern Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are sanctions going to be enough and are you considering lethal aid for Ukraine?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Keep in mind, the issue at this point is not the Ukrainian capacity to outfight separatists. They are better armed than the separatists. The issue is, how do we prevent bloodshed in eastern Ukraine? We're trying avoid that and the main tool that we have to influence Russian behavior at this point is the impact that it's having on the economy.

The fact that we've seen Europeans who have real legitimate economic concerns in severing certain ties the way they have today, I think is an indication of both the waning patience that Europe has with nice words from President Putin that are not matched by actions, but also a recognition as a consequence of what happened with the Malaysian airlines flight that it is hard to avoid the spill over of what's happening in Ukraine impacting Europeans across the board.

We think that the combination of stronger U.S. and European sanctions will have a greater impact on the Russian economy than we've seen so far. Obviously we can't, in the end make, you know, President Putin see more clearly, you know, ultimately we got something President Putin has to do on his own. What we can do is make sure we increased the costs for actions that I think are not only destructive to Ukraine, but ultimately destructive to Russia as well.

BALDWIN: He is out. Flanked by Marine One. President Obama announcing additional sanctions on Russia emphasizing the fact that these are the toughest the U.S. has slapped on Vladimir Putin thus far saying it will be sectoral sanctions, multiple sanctions of society including energy, arms and finance.

Let me bring in two voices, former CNN Moscow bureau chief, Jill Dougherty and Nick Paton Walsh for us, our senior international correspondent live in Donetsk, Ukraine.

Jill, here is my first question because you hear the president say yes, so far, the sanctions have inflicted cane on I'm wondering how much pain really they're feeling considering to the president's point off the top, Russia is still training and arming and supporting those rebels in Eastern Ukraine. How much is Putin really worrying?

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: I think he's worrying, but you know, there's really a disconnect between how much pain is inflicted and what Vladimir Putin does. Those sanctions are continuing to be ratcheted up by the United States, by the Europeans. But does it really change Vladimir Putin's approach?

And so far, he is hanging tough. I know from talking with people within Russia, it is hurting. There is no question. But does that really connect with what Vladimir Putin wants to do? And his ultimate aim? There are more and more rumors and indications that some in the business community, so-called oligarchs are more and more concerned about Russia being isolated from the world.

You look at some of the banks named today, the Bank of Moscow, VTB and the Russian Agricultural Bank, Bank of Moscow has a processing center for Visa and Mastercard. And so Russians who want to travel or business people in general could have real difficulty in transactions completed. So there's a lot of concern, but does it really change Vladimir Putin's opinion? Not necessarily.

BALDWIN: It's the perfect point. It's the perfect -- we don't know. We don't know so far. Nick Paton Walsh, to you, just talking about the tangibles that President Obama is talking about, the Russians arming and training and supporting the rebels in eastern Ukraine and now we've seen the Ukrainian military working its way in Eastern Ukraine and the fighting back and forth.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. There's a project clearly under way here that the Russians have perhaps instigated, funded and then maybe lost heart in, lost faith in, spiraled out of control. Many I think see the consistent presence of separatist militants and their ability to fight on is something perhaps that is Russia is entirely behind this.

That Russia is happy to see it carry on because it now weakens the now comparatively anti-Russian government in Kiev. Yes, we're seeing increased fighting here. Barack Obama very clear and I think he's right that the Ukrainian military is at the end of the day better equipped to deal with the separatist issue provided it's not properly backed up by the Russian army. This is a really big deal.

Until now, all the sanctions have been tweaks against individuals, stopping his chief of staff going on holiday to Europe. He wasn't going to do that anyway, frankly. This is taking out chunks of a Russian economy already struggling from a lack of confidence. He said himself President Obama potentially no growth this year.

Russians don't like that. Now think back about ten years. Vladimir Putin came to power because he was giving Russians economic stability, growth. I was living in the middle class suddenly bloomed out of nowhere. There were big supermarkets. You could buy expensive European foods that weren't available ten years before that.

That's being chipped away very fast by this lack of economic confidence in Russia's ability in the international community and some people tomorrow will wake up in Russia and find their credit cards don't work. That's really going to upset those people who he dependent upon their support for so many years -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Speaking of feeling the pain, it sounds like they'll be feeling it, toughest sanctions to date from the U.S. Nick Paton Walsh and Jill Dougherty, my thanks to both of you.

To the other crisis we're watching unfolding overseas here, the violence between Israel and Hamas. Moments ago, I talked live with the mayor of Jerusalem. Coming up next, we will get the other side. I'll speak with the executive director of palestinenote.com about why Hamas rejected a potential cease-fire today. Back in 90 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Few people have tried as hard as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry to broker the cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. What does Kerry have to show for it? So far nothing other than criticism from Israelis who say he has blundered and blundered badly. What do Palestinians think of him?

Fadi Elsalameen is a senior adjunct fellow with the American Security Project and a commentator on Arab-Israeli Affairs. He joins me from Washington. Fadi, welcome back.

Let me just ask you this with Secretary Kerry, he is getting slammed by Israeli media for legitimizing the role of Hamas. How do Palestinians feel about him?

FADI ELSALAMEEN, SENIOR ADJUNCT FELLOW, AMERICAN SECURITY PROJECT: First of all, Secretary of State John Kerry is a man that has fought in war. He knows what is the price of war. His job is not to be the Israeli spokesperson. His job as an American secretary of state is to look whether the issues that are destabilizing the region and how can he protect American interests.

What he has done by pushing a peace process between the Palestinians and the Israelis is precisely that. He has warned -- before we are in this mess, he has made a clear warning to both Palestinians and Israelis and he has said if this peace effort does not work, we are heading towards violence.

I think what you are seeing now from the Israelis is a pushback so that they cannot be blamed for what is happening. Prime Minister Netanyahu's only achievement if you look what is happening now is that he is the second longest serving prime minister in Israel. That doesn't happen out of space. You have to basically out maneuver people, you have to escape committing yourself to political achievements.

That's what basically the prime minister of Israel has done. He has basically put his coalition survivorship, him being a prime minister as a priority to actually achieving peace with the Palestinians and the Israelis and if he's uncomfortable with that and basically his way of creating some comfort is pushing back and blaming the secretary of state for wanting to create peace between the Palestinians and Israelis, I don't think that is a fair criticism of Secretary of State John Kerry at all.

BALDWIN: In the 2 minutes I have two additional minutes have I with you, we talked yesterday at length. In terms of a permanent cease- fire. I asked you what is Hamas priority and you said absolutely the blockade. What about the Palestinian Authority led by Mahmoud Abbas? Is it the same priority, access?

ELSALAMEEN: From what I know, and I just spoke to some of the Palestinians who are traveling with President Abbas to Cairo. Apparently Hamas has finally made up its mind and everybody accepts the cease-fire. They are going as one delegation to Egypt. What will happen is they will announce a 48-hour cease-fire where the Israelis will also accept it, as well and then both sides will sit down in Cairo and agree to one, lifting the blockade.

The Palestinian Authority will take over the Rafa Crossing with some help from the European Union. I think that's where everybody is moving ahead. So it's from what I know that Hamas has accepted the cease-fire contrary to what they announced before. I believe one of their spokesmen is making this point as we speak.

BALDWIN: OK, so that would be the 48-hour cease-fire that we're hearing from you. Do you think there's enough ground to forge this unity government?

ELSALAMEEN: You know, you've heard talks earlier that people are worried that if you topple Hamas, then you are going to have more radical groups taking the Gaza strip. That is not the only alternative. The other alternative that exists, which everybody should be supporting, which I believe also the secretary of state was trying to push is that you have the Palestinian Authority as a body that is willing to take over the Gaza strip as a body that is accepted even by Hamas to come and take them over. So I believe that this should be the effort that everybody should be pushing for. You know, earlier you had.

BALDWIN: Fadi, I have to cut you off. Please do come back. You've been back two days. We want to make sure we're hearing both sides. Fadi Elsalameen, senior adjunct fellow with the American Security Project, appreciate you very much.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Jake Tapper is going to take it on from here to continue both of these -- watching both of these/