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Middle East Cease-Fire is Over

Aired August 01, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Pulverize this residential area and a market. Hamas says the attack was unprovoked and Israel shatters the truce just 90 minutes into a 72-hour agreement that Washington helped broker. Israel says it was Hamas that broke the ceasefire just minutes earlier. A suicide bomber emerged from a militant tunnel and detonated among Israeli troops. And most ominous of all, Israel says one of its soldiers was kidnapped during the attack.

As you can see from these huge plumes of smoke erupting this morning over Gaza, Israel is retaliating with ferocious airstrikes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERSHON BASKIN, ISRAELI/PALESTINE CENTER FOR RESEARCH AND INFORMATION: There's a price to pay for abducting an Israeli soldier as well, and they're going to pay a very heavy price.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I suspect as bad as it's been this first -- almost four --

(CROSSTALK)

BASKIN: You ain't seen nothing yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ominous words, right?

CNN is deploying its vast resources around the world with correspondents and guests covering all the angles.

Let's begin our coverage in Jerusalem with Wolf Blitzer.

Tell us more, Wolf.

BLITZER: Carol, the spokesman for the Israeli Defense Forces, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, has just come here to CNN, he's with us right now.

I want to get specific, Lieutenant Colonel. Tell us what's going on. You say the ceasefire first of all is over, right?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES SPOKESMAN: Well, absolutely. This organization that is, you know, just taken advantage of the humanitarian ceasefire that Israel had agreed to carry out and indeed implemented for that full 90 minutes, but they came out of the ground, a suicide bomber blew himself up, killing two soldiers, and within the gunfight there, they went back down in the hole and abducted one of our boys.

BLITZER: And you've identified that young Israeli soldier, Lieutenant, right?

LERNER: Second Lieutenant Hadar Goldin.

BLITZER: From a suburb of Tel Aviv. Were -- was the incident that occurred on the Israeli side of the tunnel or the Gaza side of the tunnel?

LERNER: It all took place within the Gaza Strip in the areas where we were operating in recent days, indeed they were on defensive positions dealing with decommissioning a tunnel. This is something we said that we would be doing throughout the ceasefire because these tunnels, as has been proven in this incident, are a serious threat. This is what they've said that they would do time and time again. This is a modus operandi of these people and this is what we're up against.

BLITZER: Because they said that the agreement that was spelled out by the U.S. and the U.N., the secretary of state said Israel had to remain within its lines but it could go on defensively and continue the decommissioning or destruction of those tunnels.

Was that within Israel's lines that incident that occurred where these two Israeli soldiers were killed and one Israeli soldier was captured?

LERNER: Absolutely. We were operating in order to decommission these tunnels that have one goal, terrorism, death, destruction, as we've talked about several times. Abduction is one of those things that they are doing. We are in a situation now where they have, you know, opened this -- reality where Israel again is in a situation where we have no choice, we have to operate.

BLITZER: Now this incident occurred, the ceasefire went into effect at 8:00 a.m. local time this morning. What time did this incident occur, the killing of the two Israeli soldiers and the taking of the -- one Israeli soldier prisoner?

LERNER: 9:30 this morning.

BLITZER: So that's an hour and a half after the ceasefire went in effect.

LERNER: That's right.

BLITZER: What did you do, the IDF, immediately following this incident?

LERNER: As I explained, there was a gunfight that happened in the midst of it, so we were responding immediately to this incident and we were in pursuit of the people who carried out this attack. Several activities on the ground, several activities intelligence enhancement operational activities on the ground in order to try and retrieve this boy, Hadar Goldin. BLITZER: The Lieutenant -- the Israeli soldier.

LERNER: Yes. Yes.

BLITZER: Any clue at all where they may be holding him?

LERNER: Unfortunately not.

BLITZER: And the -- those who abducted him you have no idea where they went?

LERNER: Well, they have yet to come forward. They went back down into their holes and this is a reality. These tunnels are a real threat.

BLITZER: I assume the IDF is undertaking a massive search operation right now.

LERNER: That's right.

BLITZER: And the deaths that we just saw in the marketplace in Rafah, it looks like the Palestinians say 40 or 50 people were killed.

LERNER: I can't confirm that.

BLITZER: Was there an incident there at a marketplace that Israel was responding as you say to activity that's going on there, a lot of Palestinians were killed?

LERNER: Well, there were extensive mortar fires that happened in Kerem Shalom as well. We've had rockets out of Gaza also throughout the day. And of course the situation where they have gone and abducted another soldier and, you know, this is -- this is the specific modus operandi that they've carried out. They did it with three teenagers seven, eight weeks ago now, they did it with Gilad Shalit.

This is something they do. This is a reality in this type of conflict where we're in the midst of combat with them, where we were respecting a humanitarian ceasefire, brokered by the international community, with the U.S. and the United Nations, and this is what this terrorist organization has done.

BLITZER: So is it fair to call it, as I have, a game changer, what happened today?

LERNER: Well, we'll have to see because of course the government will convene and discuss what are the options on the table. The military is in pursuit of the people that are responsible. We are striking this terrorist organization, Hamas, that are responsible for the well- being of the officer. We are striking this organization, that is what we are intending to do.

BLITZER: Yesterday the Israel -- the IDF announced 16,000 more reservists were being activated for active duty, that brings to 86,000 reservists who have now been called up for active duty. Are more plan -- more of these activations as a result of what

happened today in the works right now?

LERNER: The additional reservists were in order to facilitate a rotation and give us some flexibility and indeed to be prepared for developments. This is indeed a substantial development. We will have to see how we mobilize and utilize those forces.

BLITZER: You say that Hamas infiltrators in this tunnel, one of them was wearing a suicide vest, committed suicide, killed two Israeli soldiers in that process. When he blew himself up the Israeli soldiers were killed, is that what happened?

LERNER: To my -- to the best of my knowledge, that is what happened this morning at 9:30.

BLITZER: Was that unique in this particular case? Because we heard from some experts who understand, had asked that a lot of these militant fighters, they go into battle wearing these suicide vests.

LERNER: We haven't seen it since the ground force activities has begun. So it's new in that respect but suicide bombing is something Hamas has done in the past, and if they're going into battle with them, it wouldn't be a surprise.

BLITZER: Is it the IDF's assessment that the military wing of Hamas is different as far as the political wing of Hamas?

LERNER: This is one organization. They have one agenda. They're operating in order to carry out that agenda. We won't let them.

BLITZER: But are they on the same page? Because there's some suggestions that the military wing doesn't necessarily go along with the political wing.

LERNER: It is one organization. They are carrying out -- since day one every time we've said ceasefire Israel has implemented. What have they done? Escalated, aggravated and now abduction.

BLITZER: How many of those tunnels have you now destroyed?

LERNER: Over two-thirds of those tunnels, around 20 something to that effect.

BLITZER: You destroyed 20, you found 31? Is that --

LERNER: Well no.

BLITZER: How many more are there?

LERNER: We know -- what we know, there are obviously access points that we don't necessarily know about. This just goes to show the severity of this issue, just goes to show how they have used it for strategic and just poured millions and millions of dollars into the ground.

BLITZER: How many rockets or missiles from Hamas territory in Gaza have come into Israel today?

LERNER: I'm not sure with the figures. It's been a few.

BLITZER: There's been -- earlier today they said like eight or nine.

LERNER: We've had more since then.

BLITZER: The sirens are still going off. You don't see any letup with that.

LERNER: Of course not.

BLITZER: They still have that impressive capability. How do they do that in the face of one of the best militaries in the world, the Israeli military? They still have that opportunity to launch rockets and missiles into Israel.

LERNER: Well, they've accumulated huge amounts of rockets. The IDF is not everywhere in Gaza at the moment and indeed they are wherever we are not present they can launch rockets from. This is what we've said all over this mission and indeed they are launching indiscriminate rockets at the state of Israel, putting Israelis at risk, holding three-quarters of our country, five million Israelis hostage, a reality which is unbearable.

BLITZER: Explain to our viewers why the capture of one Israeli soldier, a young lieutenant, is so powerful a motivator in Israel right now because, you know, 50 or 60 Israeli soldiers already have been killed. So tell us why this is so significant.

LERNER: Sixty-three.

BLITZER: Sixty-three soldiers have been killed. Tell us why this is so significant as far as the IDF, the Israeli people are concerned?

LERNER: I think it goes back to the fact that Israel was implementing a ceasefire. This was brokered by the international community. We were doing and we were standing up to our -- to the expectations of the Israeli Defense Forces of serious military. We take our business serious when we're told to hold our fire, that's what we do and we go into defensive positions. This is why it's serious.

Because when you hold your positions you expect that the other side does the same, but obviously with this type of terrorist organization there can be no trust. You cannot expect them to hold fire because they have no interest in doing so. They only have an interest in aggravating the situation further. For us we cherish life, we cherish every single life. And that is why when one officer or one soldier is taken away it means a lot to us.

BLITZER: Will you do another prisoner exchange in exchange for this lieutenant?

LERNER: I don't know about that.

BLITZER: Because you have done that over the years. LERNER: It's happened -- it's happened in the past. I think we're

way too early to even discuss that. We need to bring him home.

BLITZER: Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, thanks very much for joining us.

LERNER: Thank you.

BLITZER: All right. So there you have it, Carol, the latest from the IDF, from the Israel Defense Forces. This clearly is a situation that is about to escalate on the ground militarily. Who knows what's going to happen next but it's going to get even worse than it already has been.

COSTELLO: All right, Wolf, we'll get back to you. Thanks so much.

Wolf Blitzer reporting live from Jerusalem this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM," the conflict between Gaza and Israel is becoming increasingly deadly for U.N. workers. Eight have been killed so far. We'll talk to the head of the U.N. relief agency about the threat they're facing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The White House not mincing words on the possible abduction of an Israeli soldier allegedly by Hamas. This is what White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Apparently Hamas individuals used the cover of a humanitarian ceasefire to attack Israeli soldiers and even to take one hostage. That would be a rather barbaric violation of the ceasefire agreement. We would encourage the international community to respond to this and condemn it in the strongest possible terms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about that. CNN chief national correspondent Jim Sciutto is here.

So, Jim, what -- I mean, we heard Josh Lerner say that everybody should come out and condemn this in the most strong way but what will that accomplish?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a good question. But I think, you know, before this abduction and the lead-up to the cease-fire and then the completion of the cease-fire, the 90-minute cease-fire as it turned out, there was building pressure from the White House, from the State Department, from U.S. officials on Israel because of the rising civilian death toll in Gaza.

Clearly, immense pressure applied to get Israel to agree to the cease- fire. Now, with this abduction, that pressure disappears, in effect. And you have -- hearing from Josh Earnest and others, Tony Blinken, the deputy national security adviser, calling this an outrageous violation of the cease-fire, you have them backing Israel up now, and I think that that will help unleash, it probably would have happened any way, Carol, in retaliation for this, but that will help give Israel the space it believes it deserves to conduct -- I think we should brace ourselves for a very aggressive ground operation in Gaza right now.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about who violated the cease-fire. The overwhelming consensus is Hamas violated the cease-fire. But there is something the secretary of state said when he laid out the terms of this cease-fire that's making things a bit more complicated.

The destruction of this tunnel according to the lieutenant colonel, the Israeli Lieutenant Colonel Lerner said it was within the Gaza Strip. John Kerry intimated that, under the terms of the cease-fire that Israel could continue to destroy tunnels on its side of the border.

What do you make of that?

SCIUTTO: You know, it's interesting. It's a great question, Carol, something I was looking into last night and again this morning. There were two words used by State Department officials, conducting behind Israeli borders. But other officials, including Secretary Kerry said last night behind Israeli lines, which would presume battle lines that existed inside Gaza.

The anti-tunnel operations that took place this morning as a cease- fire were broken was inside Gaza territory, and that is a weakness in this cease-fire plan. You know, I said this last night it's a cease- fire but not all fire will cease because there were still military operations going on inside Gaza and it appears that Hamas responded to that or perhaps they had a plan going all along anyway for this attack but they did it.

And we've heard, I've spoken to our own reporters in Gaza, they say that Hamas is saying they observed Israeli forces making advances inside Gaza overnight and that's their excuse in effect for conducting this operation.

But you know what, at this point, in light of the White House reaction, in light of this tactic of capturing an Israeli soldier which is really an escalation, that's almost water under the bridge in diplomatic terms that Israel is going to respond. Israel has the national compact in effect with Israeli families that we ask for your children to serve in our military. We'll protect them particularly if they're captured. We saw that with Gilad Shalit who was held for five years. They traded more than 1,000 prisoners for him.

You can expect Israel to respond, not only retaliate to this, but with really a massive ground operation in part just to search for the soldier, but also to push back against Hamas gains. I think, you know, Wolf said a few minutes ago is this a game changer? I think we can safely say that it is and we should brace ourselves for a very intense escalation in this conflict. COSTELLO: Another factor in a possible escalation to this war is a

suicide vest was used, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COSTELLO: I mean, that's how these Hamas fighters in this tunnel came out, one of them was wearing a suicide vest, two Israeli soldiers died and then they captured a third.

And although we know the terrorists used suicide vests before in this particular battle, they have not until now.

SCIUTTO: True. It gives me a thought and I don't know this for sure, but in light of the use of a suicide vest and the fact that they were able to take a soldier that presumes some preparation, it looks to me like a planned operation, something, you know, if you have that sort of success particularly against Israel which is very aware of this threat of being kidnapped, you know, they take defensive measures to prevent that, to have this success it presumes some planning on Hamas' side.

I don't know that for sure but the use of a suicide vest, their success, surprising it appears, the Israeli soldier, as they were conducting these anti-tunnel operations. It presumes some planning on the part of Hamas.

COSTELLO: Jim Sciutto reporting live for us, thanks so much.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Of course, we'll continue -- we'll continue to monitor the situation in the Mideast this morning. This is a live look at Gaza.

Coming up, we're going to talk about how the crumbling of the cease- fire today may create even more tension between Israel and the United Nations. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: An ugly truth of the conflict between Israel and Gaza, people are dying, and the capture of an Israeli soldier may only intensify the fighting. The United Nations has accused Israel of violating international law after an attack on a U.N. school. Nineteen people died as they slept.

Chris Gunness is the spokesman for the U.N. Relief Works Agency.

Welcome, sir.

CHRIS GUNNESS, UNRWA: Thank you very much indeed.

COSTELLO: Chris, this capture of an Israeli soldier, does this mean in your mind that the fighting will indeed intensify?

GUNNESS: Well, look, we are a humanitarian organization working on the ground in shelters, which are now completely overwhelmed and we're not an organization that monitors cease-fires or can confirm independently of the media or anyone else that this soldier has been captured.

From our humanitarian point of view, a continuation of the fighting and breakdown of the cease-fire would be absolutely catastrophic, because we are facing a tidal wave of human displacement already in our shelters. There are a quarter of a million people and we have reached the point where we are going to break. They are overflowing. Eight of our staff have been killed.

And if the fighting continues, we are going to see potentially tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people simply stranded in the streets of Gaza, no food, no water, and most importantly, no security. That's a very alarming prospect.

COSTELLO: Chris, as you said, eight of your staff members have been killed in Gaza. It's been reported that 100 U.N. facilities have come under fire.

Witnessing this conflict seems to have taken an emotional toll on everyone involved, including yourself. I want to show our viewers an interview you did on al Jazeera TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUNNESS: The rights of Palestinians, even their children, are wholesale denied and it's appalling.

(INAUDIBLE)

GUNNESS: My pleasure.

(CRYING)

(EEND VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Chris, I think many people understand the horrors of war, but some critics say that you've become too close to the situation to objectively do your job. Are you?

GUNNESS: Can I first of all say that that was meant to be a private moment of personal anguish, which I feel very intensely and I oftentimes finish the interview put my head in my hands and bawl like a baby.

But the very fact that I am both a U.N. spokesperson and not a stone is not something which in any way compromises my neutrality.

I think you ask an entirely proper question, though it's embarrassing to have that clip thrown back at me so many times, which happens and I entirely understand. But I don't think that my neutrality -- I think that is evidence of something which I find throughout the U.N., and certainly throughout UNRWA, there is a passionate humanitarianism and a compassion for the victims of the conflict that we're working with.

And by the way, that extends to both sides. I mean, I live in Jerusalem and in Tel Aviv, and both these cities have faced barrages of rockets, so I, along with 6 million Israeli civilians, have also found myself terrorized by these rockets which we in the U.N. condemn in the strongest possible terms.

But the very fact that we as humanitarians have emotions does not mean I think that we are too close to this conflict. It means that we see intolerable suffering, and you know, one other reflection on that, if it's a result of people seeing that clip, the policymakers in Washington and elsewhere and the publics in other parts of the world, including Israel are left with the firm impression that our sense of indignation and outrage about U.N. designated shelters being hit is entirely genuine, that I think that is a thoroughly good thing.

And frankly, there are times when the burden of human suffering is so immense that tears are simply more eloquent than words.

COSTELLO: I understand what you're saying.

But you also understand Israel says the United Nations seems to be aligning itself with Hamas, legitimizing it, encouraging attacks like this suicide bomber in the tunnel today by intimating Israel is guilty of war crimes. Is the U.N. doing that?

GUNNESS: I'm not sure which quote and who it is that's used the word war crimes. I certainly have not in this current context, nor has anybody within UNRWA.

But this idea you're calling for accountability and you're calling for the facts to be known, when a U.N. school was hit in the way that it was by Israeli artillery, the idea that, because you do that you're somehow aligning yourself with Hamas I find illogical and somewhat perplexing and also rather discouraging.

The fact that people see a call for justice and accountability as the same as aligning yourself with terrorism, I simply think it's wrong and I also think that often it comes from people who are quite politically motivated against the U.N.

And I think we need to separate the issue of the quest for justice, which I think is essential if this region is to find stability. We need to separate all of that away from the wider politics which are indeed extremely complicated.

COSTELLO: Chris Gunness, thank you for talking with me this morning. I appreciate it.

GUNNESS: My pleasure. My pleasure.

COSTELLO: All right, time to talk about some news happening here in the United States. We have new unemployment numbers to show you, 209,000 jobs were added in July. But the jobless rate ticked up a tenth of a point to 6.2 percent.

For more on what the numbers mean, let's bring in our chief business correspondent Christine Romans.

Good morning, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

This is still a healing in the labor market, not too strong to indicate the Fed could pull all its support out of the economy and start raising interest rates too soon, and not too weak to cause any concerns about the economy overall.

Can I give you some perspective here, Carol?