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July Jobs Report Released; Middle East Cease-Fire Over; Violence Rages as Cease-Fire Ends; WHO: Ebola Outbreak Moving Faster Than Efforts to Control Out

Aired August 01, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

This is still a healing in the labor market. That's what we're seeing. Not too strong to indicate the Fed could pull all its support out of the economy and start raising interest rates too soon, and not too weak to cause any concerns about the economy overall.

Can I give you some perspective here, Carol, because every month you get all these numbers. I want to show you how this kind of broadens out. Now you've got 229,000 jobs on average each month this year, 229,000 on average. That's the strongest start to the year we've had since 2006 at least. And that compares with the other years. Think of 2010 only 88,000 a month. So you're seeing this slow healing overall in the labor market.

When you look at this month, pretty interesting. It's not as strong as last month's, but still showing that trend of 200,000 jobs. And the unemployment rate continues to hang around here, 6.2 percent. You know, it went up that little tiny bit, Carol, for all the right reasons because more than 300,000 people were feeling more confident about the labor market and they're now looking for work again. And we've been expecting that could happen as the headlines continue about slow healing and a broadening out of the kinds of jobs that are available, you're going to have more people coming into the labor market.

We have on CNN Money a great story about how middle class jobs, Carol, are finally coming back. Let me say it again, middle class jobs are finally coming back. Business and information services jobs, manufacturing jobs. Over the past few months, we've seen more than just those low paid retail jobs, low paid leisure and hospitality jobs. We're seeing a little bit of a broadening out. Still not where we need to be, still below potential, Carol, but you can see more healing here in these jobs numbers.

Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, we need that little ray of sunshine. Thank you so much, Christine Romans.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Israel escalates attacks on Gaza and the civilian suffering, especially among children, may only get worse. We'll have the latest on this deepening crisis, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right, these are pictures out of Gaza City this morning. You see the dust rising up into the air. We believe it might be because of Israeli tanks going through the area. You see some activity there at the bottom of your screen, but certainly the fighting has intensified between Israel - oh, those were trees -- the fighting has intensified between Hamas and Israel.

Also this morning in the Middle East, that cease-fire, of course, is over and the Israel/Hamas conflict appears to be escalating, as I said, to a whole new level. This is the scene over Gaza as Israeli air strikes erupt into massive clouds of dust and smoke. The pulverizing attacks are in retaliation for the capture of an Israeli soldier. Israel says Hamas shattered the truce in a tunnel attack that captured that soldier and killed two of his comrades. CNN's Wolf Blitzer is in Jerusalem. He has the latest for you..

Hi, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Carol, thanks very much.

Israeli officials now tell me 16 -- so far today since the cease-fire, that ill-fated cease-fire, 16 Hamas rockets and missiles have been launched from Gaza into Israel. Sirens have gone off. There's no indication of any extensive damage. Most of those rockets and missiles landed in what the Israelis call open area fields, or the Mediterranean for that matter. So it looks like there hasn't been any serious problems.

But they are resuming and Israeli military operations have resumed basically even in a more intensive level than they were before the cease-fire. Just a little while ago, here in the CNN NEWSROOM, I had a chance to speak with the chief spokesman for the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Tell us what's going on. You say the cease-fire, first of all, is over, right?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES SPOKESMAN: Well, absolutely. This organization that has, you know, just taken advantage of the humanitarian cease-fire that Israel had agreed to carry out and indeed implemented for that full 90 minutes, but they came out of the ground, a suicide bomber blew himself up, killing two soldiers, and within the gunfight there, they went back down in the hole and abducted one of our boys.

BLITZER: And you've identified that young Israeli soldier, a lieutenant, right?

LERNER: Second Lieutenant Hadar Goldin.

BLITZER: From a suburb of Tel Aviv.

Where -- was the incident that occurred on the Israeli side of the tunnel or the Gaza side of the tunnel?

LERNER: It all took place within the Gaza Strip in the areas where we were operating in recent days. Indeed, they were on defensive positions dealing with decommissioning a tunnel. This is something we said we would be doing throughout the cease-fire because these tunnels, as has been proven in this incident, are a serious threat. This is what they've said that they would do time and time again. This is a modus operandi of these people and this is what we're up against.

BLITZER: Because they said that the agreement that was spelled out by the U.S. and the U.N., the secretary of state, said Israel had to remain within its lines but it could go on defensively and continue the decommissioning or the destruction of those tunnels. Was that within Israel's lines, that incident that occurred where these two Israeli soldiers were killed and one Israeli soldier was captured?

LERNER: Absolutely. We were operating in order to decommission these tunnels that have one goal, terrorism, death, destruction, as we've talked about several times, abduction is one of those things that they are doing. Now, we are in a situation now where they have, you know, opened this reality where Israel again is in a situation where we have no choice, we have to operate.

BLITZER: Now, this incident occurred -- the cease-fire went into effect at 8:00 a.m. local time this morning. What time did this incident occur, the killing of the two Israeli soldiers and the taking of the one Israeli soldier prisoner?

LERNER: 9:30 this morning.

BLITZER: So that's an hour and a half after the cease-fire was in -

LERNER: That's right.

BLITZER: Went in effect. What did you do, the IDF, immediately following this incident?

LERNER: Well, as I explained, there was a gunfight that happened in the midst of it, so we were responding immediately to this incident. And we were in pursuit of the people who carried out this attack. Several activities on the ground, several activities, intelligence enhancement operational activities on the ground in order to try and retrieve this boy, Hadar Goldin.

BLITZER: The lieutenant, the Israeli soldier.

LERNER: Yes. Yes.

BLITZER: Do you have any clue at all where they may be holding him?

LERNER: Unfortunately not.

BLITZER: And the -- those who abducted him, you don't - you have no idea where they went?

LERNER: Well, they have yet to come forward. They went back down into their holes and this is a reality. These tunnels are a real threat.

BLITZER: So I assume the IDF is undertaking a massive search operation right now.

LERNER: That's right.

BLITZER: And the deaths that we just saw in this marketplace in Rafah, it looks like the Palestinians say 40 or 50 people were killed.

LERNER: I can't confirm that.

BLITZER: But was there an incident there, that a marketplace that Israel was responding, as you say, to activity that's going on there, a lot of Palestinians were killed?

LERNER: Well, there were extensive mortar fires that happened in Qerim Shahlom (ph) as well. We've had rockets out of Gaza also throughout the day. And, of course, the situation where they have gone and abducted another soldier. You know, this is - this is a specific modus operandi that they've carried out. They did it with three teenagers seven, eight weeks ago now. They did it with Gilad Shalit. This is something they do. This is a reality in this type of conflict where we're in the midst of combat with them, where we were respecting a humanitarian cease-fire, brokered by the international community with the U.S. and the United Nations. And this is what this terrorist organization has done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And we're told, Carol, that as the cease-fire was clearly unraveling, it's not totally destroyed, the secretary of state, John Kerry, spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. They discussed what happens next. It looks like those negotiations that were supposed to begin today, the follow on negotiations, a Palestinian delegation going to Cairo, an Israeli delegation going to Cairo to meet with Egyptian officials and others to work out some of the other long-term problems involving the Palestinians in Gaza, ease their condition, if you will, it looks like those negotiations right now are going nowhere. The military operations clearly escalating even as we speak.

COSTELLO: All right, Wolf Blitzer, thanks so much. We'll get back to you. We appreciate it.

The capture of that Israeli soldier, as you heard Wolf say, may mean more intense fighting and more deaths. And it would also likely ratchet up the tension between Israel and the United Nations even more. As Gaza burns, it seems each day a different U.N. agency all but accuses Israel of everything from war crimes to lying. With me now, Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law professor and author of "Taking the Stand: My Life in the Law," and Marc Lamont Hill, CNN commentator and host of "HuffPost Live."

Welcome to you both.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

Alan, the United Nations blames Israel for the attack on a U.N. school earlier this week. The secretary-general said it was reprehensible. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAN KI-MOON, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: This morning, yet another United Nations school sheltering thousands of Palestinian families suffered a reprehensible attack. All available evidence points to Israeli artillery as the cause. Nothing is more shameful than attacking sleeping children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Israel is enraged by those comments. Hundreds of children, though, are dead. They were killed inside that school. Does Israel have the right to be angry because it believes the U.N. is clearly on Hamas' side?

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Well, two points have to be made. Number one, no country in the world debates these issues more than Israel does. Its philosophers, its academics, its military leaders, its politicians. How do you react when they fire from civilian areas at your soldiers and at your civilians? How do you evaluate the life of an Israeli civilian, an Israeli child, against the life of a Palestinian child or the life of an Israeli soldier? These are debated endlessly.

Israel has no interest ever in killing a civilian. Look what it does to its reputation when it happens, it's clearly always the fault of Hamas, because they fire from behind human shields. That's their policy.

The second point that has to be made is that we now know why Hamas agreed to the cease-fire. Everybody was wondering why suddenly did they agree? Because all the while they were planning this kidnapping, this assault, this breaking of the cease-fire. They were planning to use the cease-fire as an excuse to do what they've wanted to do right from the beginning, kidnap an Israeli soldier and hold him for ransom and extortion. And this may mark the end of any further cease-fires based on any kind of trust.

COSTELLO: Marc, do you agree with that?

HILL: I agree with about 10 percent of what Alan said. I do worry that the breaking of a cease-fire or even the language of breaking of a cease-fire can make it much more difficult long-term to have other cease-fires. It also makes any possible negotiations with Egypt, which were being planned this week, null and void. I disagree with much of what he said. And it seems to me that Alan may have circumvented the question, which was, how do you respond to children in a school dying at the hands of Israeli bombs? And the question is that it is morally reprehensible and the United Nations has every right to stand down and speak out against that. And I would hope that they would.

And if Hamas has broken this cease-fire and killed that poor 23-year- old Israeli soldier, I hope that they would also get international condemnation. But I would like to see that investigated because there have been so many moments where Israel has used the death - the unfortunate death of someone as a pretext for further siege. Often times - because if you talk to Hamas right now, they'll say that that kidnapping happened before the cease-fire. I don't know if it's true or not, but I think we need to investigate and find out. But I think it's very dangerous to frame Hamas as a group of terrorists purely as opposed to people who are trying to negotiate as well.

DERSHOWITZ: Well, they made -

COSTELLO: Really? Marc -- go ahead, Alan.

HILL: And that's not -- let me be clear. I'm not saying -- that's not a pro-Hamas statement. I'm not defending Hamas. I'm simply saying that it doesn't move the conversation forward to simply dismiss Hamas and not also talk about these other issues. Let me be clear about that.

DERSHOWTIZ: It's a pro-Hamas statement whether you intend it that way or not. The United States, Canada, most of Europe have designated Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Terrorist organizations don't play by the rules. And where the U.N. goes wrong is it must place the blame for the attacks on the U.N. facilities on those who use the U.N. facilities from which to fire rockets. That's the double war crime. Using human shields, hiding in schools, putting your rockets in schools. You know that the rules of engagement prevent --

COSTELLO: But in fairness, Alan, in that particular school, the United Nations says it warned the Israeli military 17 times that this was a shelter and there was nothing to fear, and yet the school came under attack.

DERSHOWTIZ: But there was something to fear. Israel has videotaped proof that the area around the shelter was being used by Hamas to fire rockets at its soldiers.

Let me ask you this.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So why didn't they clear the school?

HILL: Are you justifying the bombing of a school?

DERSHOWTIZ: If you were an air commander, would you tell your troops not to fire back if enemies were trying to kill your soldiers from behind U.N. facilities? Would you like to be the one who calls the mother of the American soldier who has been killed and say, sorry, your son died because we told him not to fire back when he was being fired at because the enemy was using U.N. facilities as human shields? No country would do that.

HILL: I'm baffled at your logic, Alan. On the one hand, you're constantly accusing Hamas of using human shields and yet you're somehow justifying the bombing of a U.N. school or shelter with children in it. A U.N. shelter with children.

No, I mean, you essentially are. You're saying, well, what would you do in that circumstance as if that makes the logic reasonable. At the end of the day, here --

DERSHOWTIZ: What would you do? What would you do, Marc, if you were being fired on from a U.N. shelter and the choice was being killed by enemy terrorists or firing back at them, trying desperately to avoid civilians,but knowing there is a possibility that civilians --

HILL: Not a possibility.

DERSHOWTIZ: -- because your enemy -- yes, it's only a possibility. Israel goes to great efforts not to hit civilians, but they know they may have to do that in an effort to get at the terrorists. You would --

HILL: A great effort -- 80 percent of the Palestinians dead are civilians. It's absurd to suggest that --

COSTELLO: Well, Alan, pause for a second and let Marc get a word in. Marc, go ahead.

HILL: He's filibustering, that's all. Eighty percent of the people in Palestine who have died are civilians. So if they're going to great care, they're not doing a very good job.

I also don't begin from the place of -- because Alan always begins from placing Israel in a defensive position and saying what would you do if these people were firing upon you? The problem with that logic is that that begins with Palestinian resistance as opposed to Israeli occupation. If you begin from the place of Israeli occupation and you talk about Palestinian resistance to that, then suddenly the question should be -- what would you do if you're Israel and you're an apartheid state and you're an occupying force. That, to me, is the more fundamental question.

And hold on, Alan. Hold on Alan, please. And, once again, I am not defending the kill of innocent children. I'm not defending breaking of cease-fires. I'm not suggesting that Hamas is above critique. I'm not pro-Hamas. I'm anti-occupation and that's a very different conversation. And that's what the United Nations was attempting to do.

DERSHOWTIZ: -- apartheid state, we're engaging in bigotry. Look, I fought against apartheid. I was part of the legal team for Nelson Mandela. I know what apartheid is. How dare you call Israel an a apartheid state? Arabs and Jews work together, live together, serve in the Knesset together. The Gaza was occupied of all occupation in 2005 through 2007 --

HILL: I hope I get a chance to respond to this.

DERSHOWTIZ: They left behind all of the greenhouses. Hamas turned them into terrorist rockets. Shame on you for calling Israel an apartheid state. You have become part of the problem, not part of the solution, Marc.

HILL: Well, your moral censure aside, I'd like to respond to that. First of all, if you look right now -- there's first, second and third class citizenship for Israelis versus Arab-Israelis and Palestinian- Israelis.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Please, Alan, let Marc respond.

HILL: I'll just wait for him -- are you done? Thank you, sir. If you're talking about occupation moving, ending in 2005, right now Gaza is still controlled by land, by air, by sea. Israel still has a blockade; Israel still controls the population registry; Israel still controls the electromagnetic sphere; Isarel still controls movement; Israel still controls the entering and leaving for Palestinians; it still controls the construction and supplies; it still controls the water, the food that comes in; it still controls the economy.

Palestinians have not had one day of self-determination.. If you don't call that a second-class citizenship and an apartheid state, shame on you.

DERSHOWTIZ: Well, you talked about Israel being an apartheid state, number one. Number two, Israel --

HILL: Address those points I made, though. Address those points I made, Alan. Address the points I made instead of --

(CROSSTALK)

DERSHOWTIZ: You're interrupting me. Gaza has had self-determination. They voted and the foolish people in Gaza voted for Hamas and look what look what's it's gotten them. It's gotten them horrible conditions. It's gotten them turning the possibility of having a wonderful area of Gaza turned into a terrorist base.

And when you use your civilians -- by the way, another myth is that Gaza is very densely populated. Look at a map sometime and you'll see there are areas of open space that Hamas could use to fire rockets. They choose to go to the dense area of the Gaza Strip rather than to the empty areas precisely because they want to incur civilian casualties.

I call this the dead baby strategy. They know that when they put their rockets in front of civilian areas, Israel will have to respond, children will die, and they are ready to show those children on television. The media falls for it, you fall for it, and that only encourages Hamas to do it again and again and again.

COSTELLO: All right, Marc, last word then I've got to go. Marc. HILL: I would be curious -- although I don't want you to answer it

now, Alan -- I'd be curious to know if Alan has any critique of Israel. Alan is tearing down the strawman that Hamas has things to critique, that Hamas has made mistakes and Hamas is worthy of moral censure as well.

I begin from the place of saying, look, I'm not pro-Hamas, his critiques of Hamas, some of them I agree with. But, again, Alan seems to refuse to acknowledge that everything that Hamas is doing, everything the Palestinian people are fighting for, is from a posture of resistance to occupation. The fact that he denied that occupation, the fact that he ignores the United Nations' censure of --

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: -- Alan, they gave me last word.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I'm going to -- sorry. I got to end this here. Thanks to you both for being with me. I appreciate it. Alan Dershowitz, Marc Lamont Hill.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: All right, I have sad news on the Ebola outbreak. The Ebola outbreak is actually moving faster than our efforts to control it. Those are the words of the Director General of the World Health Organization, Margaret Chan. That's what she said today. She made those comments in Guinea where she assessed the outbreak along with four West African presidents. As you know, efforts are now under way to get two Americans infected with the Ebola virus back home. We're continuing to follow that story as well.

We're also following breaking news out of the Middle East where a cease-fire is officially over and the Israeli military says a soldier has been captured.

CNN's Athena Jones has reaction from the White House. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. There's clear anger and concern here at the White House, as well as a lot of big questions about what happens next. I spoke with Deputy National Security Adviser Tony Blinken about this this morning and he said that apparently Hamas used the cover of this cease-fire for an attack on Israeli soldiers in a tunnel. He called it outrageous. It was apparently during that attack that we understand two Israeli soldiers were killed, one was abducted.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest said that this apparent violation by Hamas was barbaric. He said this on "NEW DAY" this morning. Let's play a little bit more of what he had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Let me say, Chris, in no uncertain terms, that that soldier who has been taken hostage should be returned immediately. And we're going to be in touch -- Secretary Kerry has already been in touch with the Israeli prime minister to talk to him about next steps in this process. We certainly will be working with our partners and with the U.N. and other interested parties who have been a part of trying to broker this agreement about what the next steps are.

But there should be no mistake that the Israeli soldier who has reportedly been taken captive should be returned unharmed and immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So you heard Josh Earnest make that call to return the Israeli soldier immediately, and also this mention of next steps, that's the big question here, Carol. What will the next steps be? I asked Josh Earnest after that interview what's going to happen what's going to happen with these talks in Cairo that were supposed to take place. And he said, given the current situation, albeit a very fluid one, it doesn't look as though those talks would achieve very much.

And so that's where we stand. We'll be following it closely of course all day. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Athena Jones reporting live from the White House.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

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