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More Rockets Fired From Gaza; Interview With California Congressman Adam Schiff

Aired August 02, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm John Vause, reporting from Gaza.

HARLOW: All right. More rocket fire today from Gaza into Israel. More air strikes and artillery from Israel into Gaza. Just today alone officials in Gaza say 50 people have been killed there in the same period of time Israel reports hitting what they call hundreds of terror targets. More than 1,600 people have died in Gaza in the latest wave of hostilities over these four weeks. Sixty one Israeli soldiers and three civilians there have been killed in the fighting as well. This is what Israel has been focusing on.

You're looking at those tunnels. Tunnels they say allow Hamas militants to enter Israel, attack Israeli troops and sneak back into Gaza. Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, said a short while ago destroying those tunnels has been and remains one of his top priorities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAEL PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Or forces are accomplishing the work on the tunnels. Up until now tens of tunnels were destroyed. We managed to hurt severely the strategic system that Hamas actually built for many years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right. Let's go straight to John Vause in Gaza, John?

VAUSE: Yes, hey, Poppy. Well, as you say the air strikes and the operations continue here. The Palestinians continue to die and that death toll does actually continue to rise as well. And, of course, closely watching all of this will be Cairo, Reza Sayah is there. There are these negotiations which are still going on but we've now been told that the Israelis will not be turning up. The Palestinians are there. So if the Israelis don't turn up, Reza, what's the point?

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, when it comes to this conflict there are going to be no negotiations. They're not going to be any truce talks unless these two sides are sitting across the table from one another. And unfortunately that's not happening at this case.

We can tell you that according to state media five representatives of the Palestinians have arrived here in Cairo. They are representatives of the Fatah movement and members of the Palestinian intelligence. State media reporting that they made their way over to Egypt through Jordan. We are expecting other representatives of various Palestinian factions to also come to Cairo but, again, if you're going to have negotiations, it's going to take both parties sitting down.

And obviously Israel has made clear that at this point they're not prepared to make this trip to Cairo. I think a lot of people were watching closely Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech hoping perhaps that he would suggest that they are considering sending a team over here, but at this point that's not happening, John.

VAUSE: OK. Reza, thank you. Reza Sayah live for us there in Cairo. Poppy, we heard from the Egyptian president this morning, Abdel Fatah el-Sisi. He seemed very optimistic, he was talking not just about a possible ceasefire but maybe even finding some kind of long-term solution to -

HARLOW: Right.

VAUSE: -- to end the fighting but clearly that's not going to happen anytime soon.

HARLOW: No. I think a lot of people were anticipating something to that, like that, from Benjamin Netanyahu possibly saying withdrawal of ground troops and that's not what we've heard at this point in time. John, we'll get back to you in just a moment.

I do want to go to Erin McPike who is at the White House. And Erin, some of the live pictures I was seeing in your reports earlier today of protesters on both sides of this fight here in the United States. What can you tell us?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): -- the White House every day, but this was very different. It was big with at least several thousand people gathered in Lafayette Park right there outside the White House and this was rowdy and charged and heated and there was a program that went on for about an hour and a half with a number of speakers, one of those speakers led a chant essentially charging Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu of genocide and many of the speakers were complaining that American tax dollars are going to Israel to support a massacre of Palestinian civilians.

Well, the rest of the demonstration then included a march throughout Washington. The demonstrators stopped at Caterpillar's Washington office because they are saying after Israeli tanks enter Gaza then Caterpillar bulldozers are following those in Gaza to flatten the homes there. The protest then went on to stop at "The Washington Post" headquarters and that was to protest the American media especially the "Post" saying that "The Post" is the worst aggressor of media bias in favor of Israel and then they stopped back at the White House and at each stop they had coffins, symbolic coffins, that were draped in the Palestinian flag to represent the children and the adults killed in the conflict.

Well, then, in the midst of all of this there was another protest that broke out. A demonstration of Israeli supporters and they were in a small blockaded area right in front of the White House gates. Waving Israeli flags. But then some of the Gaza supporters surrounded them at those blockades and were shouting Gaza at those Israeli supporters. Then later the police escorted the Israeli supporters out of the area because it was getting so rowdy and intense, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, Erin, we appreciate the report. We'll get back to you as soon as you get a statement. We're waiting on some sort of statement if anything from the White House responding to what Israel prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said earlier today. We'll let you know if we get that. Our thanks to Reza Sayah and Erin McPike. All right. John?

VAUSE: And Poppy, this was meant to be the second night of a ceasefire but that was shattered on Friday morning about 90 minutes after it went into effect. There's a lot of back-and-forth between the Israelis and Hamas as to who, in fact, broke that ceasefire.

Nic Robertson has been speaking to the exiled leader of Hamas, Khaled Mashal. They join us now live from Abu Dhabi. And Nic, Mashal was adamant it was not Hamas who was to blame for that shattered cease- fire.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. That was something he was very clear about, John. And we just heard from Hamas issuing a statement about what their interpretation is of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech and address there. They say that this is an admission of defeat and an admission of defeat on his part.

That's how Hamas is interpreting it. I asked Khaled Mashal if he thought that they were winching the war. He said that their steadfastness was victory in itself. But it is clear from some of the advisers around Khaled Mashal, they feel that this high civilian death toll in Gaza is internationalizing the situation to such a point that they believe that there is an increased international pressure to bring a more lasting and longer truce and settlement.

He said that he was ready to get into a humanitarian cease-fire. Was prepared to talk about a longer cease-fire, a more sustained cease- fire, but he has very, very clear demands for that. Demands that were heard before the blockade of Gaza should be ended. That they should the international airport there functioning. That they should have a port. That they should have access to the sea. All these things.

But on that very key and very heated issue of what caused this current cease-fire, if you will, to break down, he was very, very clear. He said that he had told through the Qatari intermediaries, the foreign minister, to tell secretary of state John Kerry that for this truce they would not accept that Israel could continue to destroy these tunnels.

This is what he said (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (on camera): There was a very clear understanding that Israel would be able to during that truce destroy the tunnels and that's what they say they were doing. They say that you broke the cease-fire by coming out and attacking their soldiers. They were only doing what was agreed in the truce. They blame you.

KHALED MASHAL, HAMAS LEADER (through translator): The Israelis have told Mr. Kerry this. But we refused this Israeli position. And we told that to Mr. Kerry and you can even check with him. We told him through the Qatari foreign minister that the (INAUDIBLE), that the Israeli position is unacceptable. This is because a truce is a truce.

But the presence of the Israeli forces inside Gaza and destroying the tunnels means it is an aggression. Because they are inside the Gaza territories. Therefore, we told Mr. Kerry that the Palestinian resistance has the right to self-defense and the right to deal with the invading Israeli forces who are inside our Gaza territories with the necessary means.

We did not deceive Mr. John Kerry and we did not deceive the Israelis. We fight honorably. We told everyone that this is our position. Therefore, they are the ones who should be responsible for this. Mr. Kerry listened to our position carefully.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Yes. I also asked him briefly about that missing Israeli soldier should he be given up for dead, is what I asked. He said "no, because the brigade that the, you know, the military side of Hamas that was involved in that operation, they may show up, there may be more information," John?

VAUSE: OK. Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson reporting there live from Abu Dhabi. And Poppy, of course, neither side here willing to give an inch.

HARLOW: Yes, absolutely. Fascinating to hear from Mashal, I mean, someone, outside of the region in Qatar but a key figure in the Hamas regime. We'll get more of Nic's interview later this evening and, of course, on cnn.com.

Also back here in the United States a very important top story for us. The first time ever - for the first time ever - a patient with a confirmed case of Ebola is now on the ground in the United States as doctors work to save Dr. Kent Brantley and the other patient that they are right now on their way to rush back here to the U.S. we're going to speak live with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta on the ground about the challenge that's ahead.

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HARLOW: Welcome back. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu left no doubt the fight against Hamas from Israel's point of view is nowhere near over and will not end until its job is done militarily namely shutting down the tunnels into Israel and hopefully they want, of course, to bring every soldier home.

Let's talk about this what Netanyahu said this afternoon with Bob Baer, CNN national security analyst and also former CIA operative, joining us also is Representative Adam Schiff, a California democrat, also a senior member of the House intelligence committee.

Congressman, let me start with you. When it comes to the U.S. they have been clear, we back Israel in all of this. We support Benjamin Netanyahu. Also you heard President Obama and other U.S. leaders, Secretary John Kerry, condemning the fact that the cease-fire was clearly broken yesterday after just a few hours and the capture of that Israeli soldier.

From your perspective what did you make of Netanyahu's comments today saying that there will be a regrouping, that they have significantly deteriorated Hamas' capability but not saying what the regrouping or change of strategy will be?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think what the prime minister is saying is really reflective of what the Israeli public wants, and that is they want an end to the tunnel threat and I think anything short of that isn't going to satisfy Israeli concerns about their own security. So, it's hard to see this ending anytime soon.

The best prospect was that truce that allowed Israel to continue destroying those tunnels but Hamas violation of that and their inability potentially to control or enforce the cease-fire makes that pretty impractical going forward. So, my guess is Israel will continue as long as it feels those tunnels are a risk. And it may go beyond that as long as that soldier is still unaccounted for.

What we can do I think is stay in touch with our allies in the region. Continue to talk with Egypt, with Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, the Palestinian authority, with Jordan, to get a sense of what might be the right ingredients to bring about a real and lasting cease-fire and a longer-term solution. Other than that I'm not sure that there's much we can do at the moment.

HARLOW: And we know that representatives from Israel, at least at this point in time are no longer going to Cairo for the peace talks. We also know that here in the United States, you know, overwhelming passage of more funding, millions in funding for the iron dome. This coming from Congress yesterday.

To you Bob Baer, I want to read to you some of the statement that we got from a senior Hamas leader in reaction to what Benjamin Netanyahu said. He said in his statement "Netanyahu showed his defeat and his admission of failure of his aggression against our people in Gaza. This was, moreover, a failed attempt to lift the morale of his defeated army." Of course, rhetoric on both sides. But what do you make of that reaction to what Netanyahu had to say?

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think it's clear at this point that Hamas continues to fight on. It thinks it's fought to a stalemate and the fact that the Israelis had to regroup. Is in a certain sense in their terms small but important victory. I don't think Hamas at this point intends to give up. I mean, they would like the Israeli army to keep coming in deeper and deeper, increase the number of casualties. This is an organization frankly that's on the ropes, with the new regime in Egypt, the chances of getting resupplied aren't good, with the Israelis closing down most of the tunnels they're going to start to get what they get this time.

I was thinking a very hard time rearming for the next conflict and so they're hoping for the best they can get out of it. And they frankly don't mind that Netanyahu's going to continue on.

HARLOW: Does it matter for Hamas in the long term, though, Bob, that they have lost support or do not have the vocal support of almost all of the Arab world outside of Qatar?

BAER: Poppy, that's very important. I think you have to look at the mess in Iraq with ISIS, the mess in Syria, we have to look at what Hamas is essentially the Muslim Brotherhood, even ISIS is the most militant end of the spectrum of the Muslim Brotherhood and you're seeing the Arabs as well as the Israelis and the United States turning against political Islam, Sunni radicals and I think these people know it. And deep down everybody would like to see them destroyed and Hamas is going to go down with them.

HARLOW: All right, we appreciate it. Congressman Adam Schiff and Bob Baer. Thank you both very much. We will be right back.

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HARLOW: Welcome back, everyone, I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

Now this, Hamas as you know has a political wing and then there is its military wing as the fighting rages on between Hamas and Israel, it's really becoming increasingly unclear which part of Hamas is really in charge.

Our Paula Hancocks looks at the various groups that are posturing for control.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is what Israel is up against. A secretive group of well-trained killers who will stop at nothing to destroy a state they believe should not exist. This is not Hamas, this is the (INAUDIBLE) Brigade, one of more than half a dozen different militant groups in Gaza. This group said it helped kidnap Israeli soldier (INAUDIBLE) Shalit back in 2006. They have been training to kidnap more. A perfect example of why Israel and its allies should worried by be far more than just Hamas.

But with an Israeli soldier now gone, the blame is on Hamas.

OSAMA HAMDAN, HAMAS SPOKESPERSON: We can't conferm, we can't deny unless we have solid information. This is a real position. If that soldier was captured by any other organization we don't have any information. HANCOCKS: Sounding as baffled as anyone the Hamas political leadership is not even in Gaza. It's based in Qatar. They say the occupation prevents them from going home. The reality is Israel would likely target them if they did. The leader Khaled Mashal has only been to Gaza once back in 2012. To effectively run Gaza you have to be in Gaza.

Another problem for Hamas, logistics. Imagine an area the size of Detroit with no power, little water, 1.8 million residents you can't leave being run by a group that's a shadow of its former self with a military wing worried about using cell phones that can be tracked by Israel.

KHALED ELGINDY, FELLOW: Internal communication within Hamas has been disrupted and so they have a hard time even getting on the page internally much less bringing outside groups into line.

HANCOCKS: Despite this, Israel says Hamas rules the strip with an iron fist, so whoever breaks the cease-fire Hamas is accountable. But the reality is more complex. Islamic jihad, (INAUDIBLE) army of Islam, just a few of the better-known groups. The question is how many more splinter groups are there that until now may have been operating under the radar?

ELGINDY: We know that there are Jihadi groups in the Gaza strip. This is the sort of environment that jihadi groups tend to thrive in.

HANCOCKS: Israel blames Hamas for sparking this latest conflict perhaps to try and force concessions. The longer this lasts the more it becomes a life-or-death battle for Hamas as well as the people of Gaza.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Our thanks to Paula for that important report. I'm Poppy Harlow here live in New York.

At the top of the hour at 5:00 Eastern here, a special two-hour edition of the "Situation Room" with Wolf Blitzer. He'll be live from Jerusalem.

But first get caught up on our other huge story today, the latest on the deadly Ebola outbreak and the American patient now in the United States. Of course, they're on their way to bring the other American with Ebola back home for treatment as well.

Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is live with all of the details, a special live edition of "SANJAY GUPTA M.D." straight ahead right after this break.

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