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When Can 400,000 People Use Their Water?; Should Americans Fear the Spread of Ebola?; Is a Full-Scale Russian Attack Imminent?; Is a New Cold War Heating Up? Who's Winning the Image War?; What Will It Take For a Lasting Ceasefire?

Aired August 03, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

This hour, we are fast forwarding to the week ahead. We'll take a look at all the stories you'll be talking about and hearing about this week. Let's begin with our five questions for the week ahead.

HARLOW: And number one, we begin with our list of a pair of major medical headlines. The deadly Ebola creeping through West Africa and now being treated right here in the United States. And hundreds of thousands of people in Ohio being told: don't drink the water even if you boil it -- after a toxin was found in the water supply there.

So, our question number one, why widespread health crises keep happening?

SCIUTTO: And question number two, this is an alarming one, is Russia of an all-out war with Ukraine? Troops and tanks are massed on the border. But it's not just the number of troops that's troubling. It's what they're doing.

Former NATO supreme allied commander, General Wesley Clark, just back from the region, gives us his firsthand account of what's really happening on the ground there.

HARLOW: And question number three, is a new Cold War heating up? A lot of people talking about this lately as relations between the U.S. and Russia have chilled through a degree not felt in years and Moscow's incursion into Ukraine. And also, their stepped up relations with Iran and Syria are stoking political tensions and concern between a superpower.

A former State Department official will join us with his take.

SCIUTTO: And question number four this week, how will both sides of the Mideast conflict fight the public image of war? Public funerals for civilians in Gaza, including women and children. Frightened Israelis diving for cover as rockets hit their villages. I'll talk to a branding expert about these images and the war to win positive international reception. That's coming up.

HARLOW: And finally, question number five: what will it take to get a lasting cease-fire between Israel and Hamas? The U.S. condemning today's deadly blast right next to a U.S. shelter in southern Gaza. At least nine Palestinians killed.

Israeli Defense Forces say it targeted three Palestinian Islamic jihad members on motorcycles in the vicinity of that school. Also, The IDF says Hamas fired at least 80 rockets today into southern Israel.

Where do we go from here? Is there any hope for a temporary truce? We've got voices representatives all sides this hour.

But let's begin with this, our first question: why do these widespread health crises keep happening?

Let me bring in Alexandra Field, and also, Pulitzer Prize winning doctor, Sherry Fink, here in New York. Also, CNN's Nick Valencia who's in Atlanta.

Alexandra, let me begin with you. When I first read these headlines, they started coming out late yesterday about what's happening in Ohio in the water supply there in Toledo -- 400,000 people affected. They cannot touch the water.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is really surprising to a lot of people.

HARLOW: Right.

FIELD: Certainly, people in Ohio are very, very eager to get the water back on. This is a serious issue. The samples are being tested in a variety of different location, by a variety of methods. And everyone is being told that until officials really give them the all clear, they need to keep those tops off.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): The National Guard delivering water by the truckload. The Red Cross handing out gallons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come and get some. Come and get it. Come and get it.

FIELD: Store shelves are empty. And people in Ohio are clamoring for cases.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I don't have water, my baby doesn't eat. So that's going to be an issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't wash dishes. You can't wash up. You can't cook. It's hell.

FIELD: Four hundred thousand people in the Toledo area are without drinking water. Boiling it will only make the problem worse. The warnings first issued on Saturday. MAYOR MICHAEL COLLINS, TOLEDO, OHIO: I want the community to know

that everything is being done that is humanly possible.

FIELD: The issue appears to stem from algae blooms growing in Lake Erie. This photo shows a precious bloom so large you can see it from space. Routine testing of the water supply turned up two samples with readings from microsystem, a toxin sometimes released by algae blooms. More testing is under way, but additional results are needed before the ban can be lifted.

COLLINS: All I can tell you is everything is trending in a very positive direction.

FIELD: Businesses and restaurants are closed for the weekend. Officials say the water is safe for adults to bathe in, but that's not recommended for people with sensitive skin or weakened immune systems. The toxin can cause sickness and affect the liver. In worst cases, it can lead to liver failure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was stressful at first. Definitely worrying about it. I have a couple dogs at home and four children, and I wanted to make sure we had enough water to brush our teeth and be able to drink it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't appreciate it. You don't know about it until you don't have it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Definitely a trying situation for people out there. And people, what some people don't realize is that these algae blooms can be a persistent problem. Now, water treatment facilities are able to neutralize the toxins. But what they need to figure out right now is why the levels went up.

HARLOW: What this happened.

FIELD: Yes. And if the original test was an anomaly or has this the bloom maybe moved closer to the intake valve, sending those toxin levels up.

HARLOW: I found it really interesting in your reporting, Alexandra, and to you, doctor, to address, why this -- how this is? How dangerous is it? And the fact that at least as far as we know at this point, no one has been -- become ill as a result of this.

DR. SHERI FINK, AUTHOR, "FIVE DAYS AT MEMORIAL": Yes. Well, I think the testing was wonderful that they caught it early -- nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, these are some of the symptoms, the liver failure, as you heard.

And I think the bigger concern are the vulnerable people. There are 400,000 people are under this do not drink, you know, advisory. And we want to make sure that the people that don't have cars, who can't get to the water stations, the more danger is not having access to water. So, thinking about them, thinking about communicating these messages.

HARLOW: Yes. And, Jim, I know at the same time as we began the show, we're talking not only about this locally here in the United States, but the Ebola virus, which has killed, as you know, over 700 people in South Africa. We know it's getting worse in at least two of those three West African nations. To you, Jim, I know you have a question for the doctor on this one on where things stand now.

SCIUTTO: Well, Dr. Fink, I know Nick Valencia is going to get us up to speed on the disease. But I just wonder, you read, though, the WHO report on Ebola, the World Health Organization report came out just a couple of days ago. It's fairly alarming, talking about a disease that's looming more quickly than doctors and communities can respond to it.

At this point it's a problem confined to West Africa, largely. But in this era of international air travel, when people are flying back and forth all the time, how concerned are you that this disease can jump from there to Europe, and to the U.S.?

FINK: I think it is -- the head of the WHO said it was out of control in these parts of West Africa. So this really highlights, and especially the people who are coming to the U.S. and making us think about this issue, it's a good wakeup call for us. We in this country have the infrastructure to deal with this. But it's those basic infection control procedures. You know, we all know about hospital acquired infections, this is very important that we just observe these basic infectious control procedures.

And in West Africa, just highlighting the need to really step up the international response so that the outbreaks don't move to other countries. But we have much better infrastructure. They don't and they need that help.

HARLOW: You know, also --

SCIUTTO: Poppy, it's is incredible, as we go through that, two seemingly very unrelated things. The dirty water in Ohio, but this disease here. But again, it's something that's a product of our times, right? I mean, these things can spread very quickly.

The one in Ohio possibly an environmentally connected thing. You know, we would think that these things are behind us, but today, we're still facing what seem to be old world health problems.

HARLOW: Sure. But, you know, the doctor brings up such an interesting point. The important is we think of it so often, things like Ebola, as it's happening there, not here.

Well, frankly, now we are bringing two U.S. citizens home to treat them for this. So it is here, and it's very real. But it's also important that people understand what is real and what is myth. How you can contract it.

I know there's a lot of anxiety about whether or not, you know, should we have brought them home to treat them. Frankly, they are American citizens. They need the best treatment they can get. This is not spread through the air, for example.

So, let's get to Nick, who has a lot more on this and what is happening in the United States -- Nick, in terms of treating these patients. Another one is going to be on her way shortly back here for treatment.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Let's start with a case also of a doctor who is in West Africa and he's actually working in the same hospital as one of the Americans that contracted Ebola. His name is Dr. Alan Jamison. And he travels all over the world, helping people in situations ranging from natural disasters to infectious disease outbreaks. And it's his trip in West Africa and his exposure to Ebola that really has him worried.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: Alan Jamison isn't taking any chances.

DR. ALAN JAMISON, RETIRED PEDIATRICIAN: I just returned from Liberia.

VALENCIA: The retired doctor sits self-quarantined in his home in Morristown, Tennessee. Just a week ago, he volunteered with medical teams international to treat Ebola patients in the same Liberian hospital where American doctor, Kent Brantly, contracted the deadly virus.

JAMISON: The risk was becoming greater and greater, and the concern is that if I were to contract the infection while I was there, I would not have the facilities available for better treatment that are available in the United States.

VALENCIA: The 69-year-old says though he doesn't have any symptoms of the virus so far, he plans to be in isolation for 21 days, which is the incubation period for the disease. His last contact with an Ebola patient was two weeks ago. His daughter picked him up from the airport upon his return to the United States, but Dr. Jamison says he hasn't had any contact with anyone else since his isolation started on July 25th.

JAMISON: Whether it's war like (ph) in Somalia, and I was in Philippines when they had the typhoon, in Haiti, they had cholera following the earthquake. So, these situations all pose risk.

VALENCIA: Risk, Jamison says, that he would gladly go through again in West Africa if it meant that he could help others survive the disease that kills the majority of everyone it infects.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: Now, Dr. Jameson is still in that quarantine and he's taking his temperature twice a day to make sure that he doesn't develop a fever. Of course, that's one of the symptoms of the Ebola virus.

And now, this self-imposed quarantine, it's in excess to what the CDC suggested, but Dr. Jamison telling CNN that he doesn't want to take any chances infecting family or perhaps others in the community -- Jimmy, Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Well, Nick, that's an illustration of a point that health professionals keep saying to me, is that the U.S. has the expertise. It has the resources to contain the disease that is not present in West Africa, and that's something that should give our viewers some comfort about the danger of this disease to us.

Thanks very much, Nick Valencia, in Atlanta.

VALENCIA: You bet.

SCIUTTO: Another international story we're following, as troops masse at the Russia/Ukraine border, are the two countries on the brink of an all-out war. We're going to discuss that question right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

The crisis on the Ukraine/Russia border could be coming to a head. There are troubling reports that more Russian troops and weapons are closing in on the border and that activity is becoming more suspicious there. So, is a full-scale Russian attack imminent?

Joining me now on the phone, former NATO supreme commander, General Wesley Clark. General Clark just returned recently from the region. And we have spoken a great deal on this before.

Tell me from your own time on the ground there and the officials you talked to I know have access to some very strong intelligence on the situation, what signs are you seeing and hearing on the Russian side of the border which give you pause that Russia may be considering a full invasion?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER (via telephone): Well, first of all, we know that we have Russian personnel inside Ukraine now. They are picked up on social media network and in telecommunications. So, we know that several convoys have penetrated the Ukrainian border. They have moved in to reinforce the separatists.

We know that Russian artillery and missile launchers are being prepared for firing just on the other side of Ukrainian border and that in the past week, there have been several incidents where the Russians have fired across the border to attack Ukrainian troops. We know that yesterday four Russian attack helicopters flew in formation across the border 10 miles into Ukraine.

All of these are indicators. We know that additional Russian forces are being moved to the vicinity of the border. Everywhere from around the north edge, where there is no contact at all right now, to the south. We have statements from Russian military leaders in places like Crimea that they are prepared to intervene. And we have the first political call, which is the separatist mayor of Luhansk saying that there is an imminent humanitarian catastrophe because the Ukrainian troops are moving to encircle these separatist stronghold cities of Donetsk and Luhansk.

So the statement of the mayor would be the political call for help. The separatists --

SCIUTTO: Building the case in effect for an invasion.

I wonder, you know, the U.S. response so far, both to the annexation of Crimea but also to the military involvement you described there, shelling across the border, Russian military advisers on the ground inside Ukraine, has been economic -- economic sanctions. No military steps yet, including no military support really, lethal military aid for the Ukrainian military. What would the U.S. do? What should the U.S. do if Russia was to come across the border in force?

CLARK: Well, I think -- we don't know whether Russia, whether Putin is going to do this or not. But I think that you have to raise the appearance for Putin of unacceptable cost. So, you can't make it easy for him.

So, the first thing is the economic sanctions. And I think the White House recognizes that these are good. They show NATO unity. But they're not probably sufficient.

So they need to be toughened up. You need stronger diplomatic statements. And Ukraine's neighbors to the west need to start providing some military assistance. Not in the form of troops but in the form of critical items of equipment.

And in most cases, this doesn't have to come from the United States. Perhaps there are some unique elements that should. But the United States should be giving information. After all, this is a fight that is strongly -- it affects American interests very strongly. If Ukraine is invaded and falls to Putin, it jeopardizes the security of all of the NATO countries that are next in line.

They are very nervous about this. They are watching very anxiously. And the best way to stop a war is to not let it get started. And in this case, the way to keep it from getting started is to make sure that Putin's military gamut in Ukraine doesn't succeed.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's an alarming prospect you described. And as you know, the number of NATO countries bordering Ukraine, you've got the Baltic states, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and you have Poland just to the west of there.

And Ukraine, Poppy, as I would just say to viewers, Ukraine is in Europe. It's not some distant land.

HARLOW: No.

SCIUTTO: This is a very alarming prospect for even more Russian military involvement there.

HARLOW: Yes, it absolutely is and really fascinating insight there from someone who knows the region so well.

General Wesley Clark, thank you for your time.

So, we're going to continue talking about this. And how about this -- a top Russian diplomat tweeting this about President Obama? Quote, "U.S. President Barack Obama will make history not as a peacemaker. Everyone forgot about his Nobel Prize, but as the statesman who started a new Cold War." Is this just rhetoric or is a real new Cold War a possibility? We're going to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Before Russia's military advance on Ukraine, tensions were already, as you know, rising between Moscow and the United States. Among the reasons, Vladimir Putin tightening relations with Iran and Syria and his brand of asylum to U.S. and as a whistle-blower Edward Snowden. Relations are souring.

But is a Cold War heating up?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, it's not a new Cold War. What it is, is a very specific issue related to Russia's unwillingness to recognize that Ukraine can chart its own path.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right. Let's get more perspective on this from an expert. David Kramer is a former top official at the U.S. State Department.

David, that was from the president on Tuesday. And we know that the Obama administration has been clear in saying this is only because of what Russia is doing in Ukraine. But, you know, then also something this handled where Obama administration clearly come out and said that Russia violated a landmark arms control treaty from back in 1987, by testing a certain missile.

So, isn't this and then also, of course, we talked about earlier in the show in terms of the U.S. spy plane encounter with a Russian jet just a few weeks ago. Isn't this the stuff of the Cold War?

DAVID KRAMER, PRESIDENT, FREEDOM HOUSE: It certainly does bring back memories of the Cold War. What would be was missing was an ideological struggle, communist system in the Soviet Union which doesn't exist anymore. But in some respects, what we are seeing now is more unpredictable and more problematic and challenging.

It's a system that Putin put in place when he came to power in 2000 that is built on authoritarianism. It's a thoroughly corrupt regime and it's a regime that views any democracy or movement towards Europe greater integration with the West as a threat to Russia itself, and so Putin projects onto others when he views that there might be threats to his own hold on power.

HARLOW: Yes. And, you know, Jim, we have heard Russia say repeatedly even after this tougher round of sanctions coming from Europe and the United States -- look, it doesn't matter to us. We will continue to operate successfully. Really trying to brush it off, Jim.

SCIUTTO: They have. I mean, judging by their actions, too.

And I wanted to ask David this. To this point -- the administration tried to raise the economic cost first of the annexation of Crimea continued activity in eastern Ukraine that doesn't seem to have deterred Russia at least to this point. And, David, we just had the former Supreme Allied commander, General Wesley Clark, on. And he just returned from Ukraine, raising this prospect of an invasion of eastern Ukraine based on Russian military movements along that border.

I wonder -- you know the former Soviet Union. You know Russia. What do you think the chances of that invasion are today?

KRAMER: It can't be ruled out. And let's be clear: Russia has already invaded Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KRAMER: It did so when it moved into Crimea in late February, early March. And as General Clark indicated, there were Russian forces in eastern part of Ukraine, some of the leaders of the so-called separatists movement, which is really a Russian-backed set of forces are Russian citizens themselves.

O, an invasion can't be ruled out. But Putin also has to understand, there will be serious consequences for that, more sanctions and I think more military assistance. I agree with General Clark that the West should be providing Ukraine with more military means to defend itself in addition to the economic sanctions that have been put in place.

SCIUTTO: Poppy, it's alarm to think. And our guests keep reminding us to this, that Russia in effect has already invaded Ukraine, right?

HARLOW: Yes, right.

SCIUTTO: When you speak about Crimea, annex, and Eastern Ukraine, you have Russian -- you know, U.S. officials say, you have Russian agents on the ground operating already.

HARLOW: And we know that from social media and what has been detected even in recent days. We appreciate the insight.

David, wish we could have you on for a lot longer. Thank you for coming in and for the expertise.

KRAMER: Thanks.

HARLOW: All right. Coming up here in THE NEWSROOM, if you were a second grader in Gaza or in Israel, you would have already been living through your third war between the two. So, so many children shouldering the brunt of this bloodshed. We're going to talk about these images in depth, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCIUTTO: So now to question number four of the day, and it's a tough one. In the Middle East now, who is winning the image war?

HARLOW: We know the numbers, more than 1800 Palestinians dead in these four weeks of fighting. Dozens of Israeli troops and three civilians dead as well. A United Nations school struck right next to that school, which is being used by a shelter -- as a shelter. And also with live news cameras frankly around all the time worldwide and social media. How that is changing all of this? The battle for global perception is really a battlefield of its own.

Here's our Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, THE LEAD (voice-over): You're no doubt familiar with advertisements like this one, asking you to sponsor a child in need.

The Christian humanitarian organization World Vision has been using campaigns such as these to help impoverished communities for more than 60 years. Donations help provide education, nutrition and medicine for families around the globe, including in Gaza where the suffering among children has become unbearable.

With Israeli shelling and missiles and Hamas rockets fired and misfired, World Vision was forced to suspend all but its most crucial services here last week.

DR. MAE CANNON, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF ADVOCACY & OUTREACH, WORLD VISION: As the bombs increase, let alone the ground invasion began, safety became a primary concern. One of our staff members in north Gaza lost eight members of his family during one of the bombing campaigns.

TAPPER: It's gotten so bad that now appeals for assistance aren't primarily aimed at television viewers but instead at combatants. Please, they say, stop.

CANNON: We certainly are calling for a ceasefire. Gaza was in a humanitarian crisis prior to this conflict. And now the humanitarian issues are becoming catastrophic.

TAPPER: The Israeli government insists it does not target civilians. But in the past few days World Vision says it has had to tell at least five families that their sponsored child in Gaza was killed, not by hunger or lack of shelter but my conflict.

Five-year-old Saher (ph) recently took part in an event in Gaza where children flew kites carrying messages of peace and hope. World Vision says he was killed by an Israeli missile while playing inside his home.

Five-year-old Mohammed (ph) had been receiving psychological care from World Vision. The organization says he died when an Israeli tank shelled his room. Nine-year-old Mustafa was killed along with his mother, 8-year-old sister and eight-month-old baby sister, World Vision says, when an Israeli jet bombed their home. Another sponsored child died in this shelter when it was bombed Wednesday night.

World Vision had been set to offer help to families here the next morning.

CANNON: We have people who are trained experts to work with children to teach them breathing exercises so that they can go to sleep at night when bombs are going off or to learn how to sing a song that can help calm them down.

TAPPER: The Palestinians blame Israel. Israel blames Hamas for imbedding within the population. Whomever you hold responsible, international aid workers are finding it close to impossible to help any of these children until there is a ceasefire that features people actually ceasing fire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Heartbreaking to watch no matter what side you're on.

I'm joined now by Martha Pease. She's an expert on branding and public relations and global imaging.

You know, amazing ideas to bring into a war. But I'll tell you, I'll tell my viewers as a journalist covering this, I'm been branded, I've been spun, I've been lambasted by both sides almost regardless of how you report the issue.

How much energy and attention are both sides devoting to their image in this conflict?

MARTHA PEASE, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, DEMANDWERKS.COM: Well, I would say that attention is being devoted to the conflict more than to controlling their image. Certainly Israel's image is taking a big hit here. They're losing ground -- they're losing moral high ground, I think, in public opinion. And I think Hamas is actually manipulating and controlling their image to some degree to a greater extent than Israel is.

When 29 percent of young Americans under the age of 29 or under the age of 30 feel like Israel is to blame for this conflict and 21 percent only feel that Hamas is to blame, I think you're looking at a situation where probably images spinning out of control a little bit for both sides. And Israel is taking the bigger hit.

SCIUTTO: It's a pretty remarkable thing to discuss, to mention now. We have Israel, it's a democracy, it's an ally of the U.S. And then you Hamas, it's a terrorist organization. To see that difference of opinion. And as you seem to be saying, that Hamas' brand is rising as a result of this or at least its public image growing as a result of this, whereas Israel is being damaged.

PEASE: Right. Well, I don't know if Hamas' image is necessarily rising at a global level. I mean, we're seeing protests in Europe. We're seeing the rise of some push back certainly against Israel. Tesco, a UK supermarket, has taken Israeli produce from the Gaza Strip off the market. But more importantly what we're seeing is Hamas is really reacting and pushing against the situation using 21st century media tactics.

They are using social media. They are using first person content. They are using video and wrenching images that are in real-time to explain to the world, explain to the world what's going on in the strip. And Israel really isn't moving into the 21st century in terms of their media tactics. I think they are more concerned with the military conflict. They are more concerned with their impact there. And -- but Hamas is pushing at every opportunity to make sure that the world sees Israel as the aggressor.

And I think that's having some effect. Certainly it doesn't help when Israel's best friend, the U.S., calls their actions disgraceful. On top of what has been kind of progressing over the past few weeks in terms of, you know, a general pressure of opinion against the Israeli action.

SCIUTTO: Well, it is incredible to think of an organization like Hamas having a social media division. But it's very clear they do.

Thanks very much, Martha Pease.

And Poppy, I'm sure you get the same thing. Another tactic. I get e- mails the moment -- seconds after I deliver a report from here, often from both sides, saying you missed this or you should have said more off that.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: And sometimes -- sometimes as I'm sure you can understand, you know, even in more vitriolic terms than that.

HARLOW: Yes, absolutely. And you can't win and you can't make everyone happy. You can just report the facts as they are and the fact is that the images coming out of Gaza are the images that are coming out of Gaza. Often, as you know, Jim, what we see on the side of Israel is we often see images of the politicians, et cetera, right?

I mean, these are the images and Israel, as we said earlier on Brian Stelter's show "RELIABLE SOURCES," it's so interesting, one expert saying, look, Israel is willing to have these images out there and continue. They are not as concerned with what their perception is in the world. They are concerned with their battle on the ground and in the air there.

Fascinating discussions from both of you. Thank you for that.

All right. Coming up here in the NEWSROOM, what is it going to take to get a lasting ceasefire between Israel and Hamas? We're going to hear an exclusive interview from Khaled Meshaal, the leader of Hamas, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We're back with our fast forward question number five and it is a huge question. What will it take to get a meaningful, lasting ceasefire between Israel and Hamas? We've got voices representing several sides on this.

SCIUTTO: No question. Joining us now to discuss Palestine Center executive director Yousef Munayyer, CNN military analyst and former lieutenant colonel, Rick Francona, and CNN national security analyst Bob Baer, a former CIA operative.

But first we want to give you a CNN exclusive. Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson talked directly with Hamas leader, Khaled Meshaal. Have a listen to his interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KHALED MESHAAL, HAMAS POLITICAL LEADER (Through Translator): Hamas is an movement of institutions. It has a respected leadership. All the members of Hamas, whether in the political or armed wing, are disciplined. The Israelis, the Egyptians and the American administration know this. Otherwise John Kerry would not have intervened this time.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: President Obama said it is irresponsible for Hamas to fire their rockets from civilian neighborhoods. That's what you're doing. Why do you do it when you know civilians are going to die?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): Look at the results. How many Israeli civilian were killed? Israel knows the number, while how many Palestinian civilians Israel has killed? It killed up to this minute 1700 murder, while we killed, by Israel's admission, 63 soldiers. We killed soldiers, while they kill Palestinian civilians.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTSON: But because -- because you're firing your rockets from civilian neighborhoods. That's where you're firing your rockets from. Your rockets are fired, Israel says, indiscriminately to civilian areas, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem. President Obama says you're firing your rockets from civilian neighborhoods and you know what that means, that you will have high civilian casualties.

Critics are saying that the only reason that you're doing this is so that you get the international outpouring of international sympathy because of the high civilian casualties.

MESHAAL (Through Translator): It is unfortunate that the U.S. administration and President Obama have adopted the Israeli narrative, which is a lie. Hamas sacrifices itself for its people and does not use its people as human shields to protect its soldiers.

These are lies and Hamas does not seek international sympathy through its own victims.

ROBERTSON: What are you prepared to do to get a ceasefire? Are you prepared to destroy your tunnels? Are you prepared to stop firing rockets at Israel? Are you prepared to accept the right of Israel as a state to exist? MESHAAL (Through Translator): We are ready for a ceasefire. We don't

want war. We want the war to end today. We did not attack anyone. It was Netanyahu who transferred the crisis that took place in the West Bank on June 12th to Gaza. He is responsible for this. We are ready to stop this war and we want a ceasefire.

ROBERTSON: But are you ready to stop building rockets? Are you ready to stop firing rockets?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): I will answer you. I will answer you. Why are there demands only on the Palestinian people to get off their modest and simple weapons but no similar demands on Israel? They are occupying the state. We are ready to discuss the removal of weapons.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTSON: But you're firing the Israelis. But you have -- the Israelis say you are firing indiscriminately at Israeli civilians. That's what you're using those weapons for. When they are not firing at you, you're firing at them. That's how this --

MESHAAL (Through Translator): Israel is the one who started this aggression. And it is Israel who is killing civilians. I explained to you in detail what Israel is doing in Gaza in killing civilians.

ROBERTSON: There was stability, though. There was a stability. There was -- there was a peace. There was a period recently when there were no rockets.

MESHAAL (Through Translator): Unfortunately, the United States and the West and the Western media have adopted the Israeli narrative.

ROBERTSON: Are you winning this war?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): Our steadfastness is itself a victory. For us to kill their soldiers while they kill our civilians is also a victory for the Palestinian cause and for Hamas.

ROBERTSON: How are you having a victory for your resistance for the cause when so many Palestinians are dying? How is that a victory? Your rockets aren't striking the Israeli citizens. You've killed a handful of Israeli soldiers. How are you winning? How is this a strategic victory?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): Our people are convinced today that the only way to get the occupation and establish the state is through resistance like all of the people of the world have done. Just like what the American people did when they got rid of the British occupation and as the French did when they got rid of the Nazi occupation.

ROBERTSON: President Obama asked you to be more responsible, to not fire rockets from civilian neighborhoods. What concessions are you willing to make to get this blockade lifted?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): We are ready to take all the positive steps. And we have done it before. Let me say it, let the aggression end.

ROBERTSON: Get rid of the tunnels? Stop firing rockets?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): I'll tell you, let the aggression ends, and the siege lifted, and Hamas and the resistance will not fire rockets on anybody. We are defending ourselves here. End of the line.

ROBERTSON: You will stop the rockets?

MESHAAL (Through Translator): When the aggression ends, we will stop responding to them.

ROBERTSON: So let's define what is the aggression that has to stop? Let's be very precise and clear.

MESHAAL (Through Translator): Israel has to stop all forms of aggression. Missiles, fighter jets, attacks by air, land, and sea. They must open the border crossings and lift the siege. Beyond that, the main issue is to end the occupation and end the building of settlements. Because that's the true root causes of this conflict.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: A defiant Hamas leader there.

As we were listening to our Nic Robertson's interview with Khaled Meshaal, we got this news in from the region. And that is that the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, have announced a temporary humanitarian ceasefire for tomorrow. It will take place between the hours of 10:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. local time in the Gaza Strip but not in the area of Rafah, that's in the south where the Israelis have been conducting the bulk of their anti-tunnel operations.

It's a story we're going to give you more details on.

We also have our panel standing by to talk about CNN's exclusive interview with the Hamas leader. We're going to have the panel right back after this break.

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SCIUTTO: And we are back with our panel to talk about CNN's exclusive interview with Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal. And our fast forward question number five today, what will it take to get a meaningful ceasefire between Israel and Hamas?

Bob Baer, I want to talk with you, you and your role with the CIA, you had contact with Hamas. You studied them well. Listening to Meshaal there, this does not sound like a leader eager to make a deal.

What do you believe it would take to get Hamas to a table and agree to a lasting ceasefire, not a short-term temporary ceasefire?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Jim, I think you -- I think you hit on it. And that is, the key is -- let's put it this way. He's not sounding defeated. He said we're an independent organization. We make our own weapons. We're fighting the good fight. This is a resistance movement. And in fact, the Israelis have lost a lot more people they intended.

I was talking to an Israeli today. In the last 24 hours, Hamas took out an armored personnel carrier with an anti-tank weapon and killed nine Israeli soldiers. And for Hamas this is in a sense a victory. So until Hamas is truly defeated they're not going to be inclined to talk, or at least exclusively on Israeli terms.

And secondly, we're missing a good interlocutor between Hamas and us or us and the Israelis, simply because we've lost Egypt, who in the past have moderated their behavior. And without them these guys are just going to keep on fighting on as far as I can tell.

SCIUTTO: Poppy, you know, one of the comments that stuck out to me from the Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal was in comparing the resistance of Hamas to Israel, to U.S. resistance to the British in the Revolutionary War.

HARLOW: Right.

SCIUTTO: But even to French resistance to the Nazis.

HARLOW: Yes, and I --

SCIUTTO: Interestingly there.

HARLOW: And absolutely I agree with you, Jim. Sounding like this is not someone who intends to back down any time soon. Many experts have recently been saying as the casualties rise here on both sides, especially on the Palestinian side, Hamas gets more entrenched, isn't it?

So to Colonel Francona, an expert in the region and in terms of military tactics, we heard Khaled Meshaal in Qatar, but leading, leading Hamas from there saying, OK -- Nic said specifically what do you want to see end in terms of Israeli aggression and he said opening the border crossings. We know there's economic really despair for the Palestinian people there and ending the settlements there in the West Bank.

Realistically, is he going to get either of those?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, because the Israelis will probably would agree to all of that but after. Meshaal wants this first and then they will have a ceasefire. The Israelis said, no, we're going to have to disarm Hamas. We're going to have to disarm -- dismantle all the tunnels. And then we can talk about these other things. So they are approaching it from opposite sides.

So I don't see any resolution for this in the near term. The Israelis are going to continue their military operations in Rafah.

HARLOW: But to what end? To what number of casualties? To what number of tunnels destroyed? FRANCONA: They want -- as many tunnels as they can find. And as

we're talking to your last guest, I think that the Israelis have discounted public opinion. They know they are losing the PR battle and they figured that into their calculus before they even started this invasion. They said, we're not going to win the PR battle so let's going to do what we need to do militarily.

HARLOW: All right, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yousef Munayyer, this is amazing to think, as General Francona -- Colonel Francona makes the point, the idea of discounting public opinion, particularly civilian deaths. Where does this leave the peace process, do you believe, from the Palestinian perspective? Is there any hope?

YOUSEF MUNAYYER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PALESTINE CENTER: I think we need to refocus on what the underlying problem is here. And this is the ongoing for decades now military occupation of Palestinian territory.

The entire framing of this conversation about a ceasefire is rather odd because, you know, Palestinians are the only people on earth who are asked to provide security for their occupiers. And the Israelis are the only people on earth who are supposed to, you know, act in self-defense against the victims of their occupation. It's just -- it's completely inverted.

If we want to see ceasefires last, we have to learn from the lessons of failed ceasefires in the past. And the problems have been that ceasefire agreements in the past that have talked about the siege have never been implemented. And I think what people don't really understand about the siege is the siege itself is a system of violence. It is routinely occurring where you have Israeli fire into the Gaza Strip, even when there are no projectiles being fired from Gaza, to the enforce the siege.

Farmers are being killed in the Gaza Strip by Israeli fire. Fishermen are being shot at. What on earth does that have to do with security? So I think until you address that problem, the problem of the siege and the system of violence that is the siege and start to talk as well about the ongoing military occupation, you're going to continue to see resistance.

SCIUTTO: Well, it is incredible to think, Poppy, that you have these events now almost on a regular basis where civilians in numbers on the Gaza side of the border caught up in these strikes. You had a U.N. school today. A family of seven killed today as well.

I mean, the civilian toll, no matter how you slice it, is just hard to bear.

HARLOW: Yes. And we heard the condemnation coming from the State Department this afternoon after that strike right next to that U.N. shelter. Really tough words coming out of the State Department here telling Israel, you know, you have to abide by your standards in terms of civilian casualties. To all our experts, we appreciate the discussion this evening.

And coming up next here on the NEWSROOM, in America, your views on Israel and Hamas in this conflict may be very influenced by your age.

SCIUTTO: So we're going to bring in our own panel of millennials to talk about how the younger generation views the increasingly bloody conflict in the Middle East. That's right after this break.

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