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Crisis in Israel; Ebola Fears; Iraq Conflict Continues

Aired August 04, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Now here we go, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

We begin with the Mideast. Israel now says it did bomb a refugee camp in Gaza City today two minutes into a seven-hour self-declared humanitarian truce. Palestinians say an 8-year-old girl was killed. Many other children were injured in this attack on a family home.

Israel says it was -- quote -- "targeting Islamic Jihad," and this did not amount to a violation of the truce. Let me just fast-forward to later in the day. Here it was. The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, viewed the Gaza campaign will continue.

He spoke after a man on a backhoe drove into a city bus in Jerusalem, killing a pedestrian before police killed him. In a separate incident in Jerusalem, a man on a motorcycle shot and badly wounded an Israeli soldier. And just a reminder here of the death count in Gaza.

Palestinian officials say 28 days of hostilities have killed more than is 1,800 Palestinians. More than 9,000 others are injured; 67 Israelis are dead, but three of them were soldiers.

Joining me now live from Gaza City, CNN's Martin Savidge.

And, Martin, the IDF says it's resuming operations, including those airstrikes, but Netanyahu says his campaign to destroy Hamas, the tunnels specifically, is about to conclude? Why is that? What are you hearing?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's what they say, that the -- they have been saying actually that the mission against tunnels was ready to conclude for a number of days now. But it appears that they're down to the last two or three.

And they could be done with that by tonight. However, that may mean the end of the ground offensive, per se. But it's unlikely to mean the end of the conflict, because it is still anticipated that there will be airstrikes, there will be artillery.

And there could be other strikes that will be conducted by Israel. Primarily, they say, Israel, that is, it depends on what Hamas and the Islamic Jihad and other militant groups do in regard to Israel. What they mean by that is, of course, if they continue to launch rockets against Israel, then Israel says it will maintain what it has always maintained, that it has the right of self-defense and will strike back at those who are launching the rockets. The problem is, of course, there are so many civilians here as well,

that they are most likely caught up in that cycle of violence. So it does not appear tonight -- we have been hearing, you know, the thump of artillery. We have seen flares that have been dropped. We have also seen rockets earlier in the evening that were outgoing towards Israel.

We saw Iron Dome intercept some of those. It got very busy just around sunset this evening. And, again in the darkness, and much of Gaza is dark, you can hear the sound of warfare as it continues to the south. In Rafah, it side to be especially violate, with more civilian deaths. We don't have an exact number yet. That's where it stands, Brooke.

BALDWIN: As we watch the numbers, the civilians, Hamas, Israel, different sides, the deaths, the injured, let's talk about, though, the supplies, because we know we talk about these humanitarian cease- fires, the attempted cease-fires, and much of that is so that the supplies can be delivered to Gaza.

Do we know if the Palestinians have received the supplies they need?

SAVIDGE: There were. I mean, it was evident today. You could see that there were trucks, some of marked clearly United Nations. They were loaded and they were moving about within the city. So that's an indication, you know, that supplies were being brought in. Blood was being brought in. There was a desperate shortage of that. It was a need.

And then on top of that, there is the sort of personal resupply that takes place. And what I mean is that families finally were able to get out, go to the store, buy the water, buy the food, buy the medicines, whatever it is they need, including lining up at the bank. There was a pretty long line at the ATM machine.

So they have not been able to do that for days. They have been without electricity for a week. And you can imagine that, in their homes, if they have homes left, these have been pretty desperate times. So it was a welcome relief. On top of that, you can see people driving, you can see people walking in the park. There's just that human side of you that lets you decompress.

But it wasn't a cease-fire. It was just an easing of the fire. Both sides continued to shoot at one another during the time that was supposed to be the cease-fire.

BALDWIN: Martin Savidge, it's 10:00 at night. Can't see much behind you. A lot of the power, as we know in Gaza out. Thank you for your reporting there.

The Obama administration, while still defending Israel's right to defend itself, says Israel's deadly attack Sunday on that U.N. school where civilians were taking shelter was both appalling and disgraceful. At least nine people were killed when explosive shells hit the school in Rafah. Here on CNN, a State Department spokeswoman said Israel needs to do

better to try harder not to kill civilians among whom militants are known to seek cover, even hide some of the weapons in the schools and the shelters and the mosques there. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: When you have a situation where innocent civilians are killed in Gaza, there's more that Israel can do to hold themselves to their own standards.

And the United States, of all countries, has experienced this in places like Afghanistan. We're saying they need to hold themselves to their own standards and do more here in Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in two voices, Jim Sciutto with us now from Washington. He's our chief national security correspondent. And with me in New York, Middle East expert Peter Beinart. He's a CNN political commentator.

So, Jim, let's just begin with the words from the State Department. As we know, the U.S. reminds everyone Israel absolutely has the right to defend itself. Do we know of any reassessment from Washington as far as this operation in Gaza goes?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a reassessment that's been under way for a number of days now, which gets at particularly -- the particular issue is not with Israel striking Hamas in Gaza, but with the number of civilian casualties and the reason for the number of civilian casualties.

And I have spoken to Israeli officials a number of times on this. And they will say, we do not target civilians, which they certainly do not on purpose. That said, they are using in many of these strikes non- precision weapons. Artillery, for instance, that hit the U.N. school, it's .155-millimeter artillery that fires from in cases sometimes miles away.

By definition, it's not a precision weapon. So you fire that, you could be targeting Hamas fighters, you know, who are pointing their guns at you. But the explosion is big enough that if civilians are in the area, they're going to get killed. And it raises questions about the rules of engagement that Israel is operating under here.

And that is what the U.S. State Department, what the U.S. administration clearly has an issue with. And I have got to tell you, as you quoted that statement, Carol -- Brooke, sorry -- we -- those are very strong words that come from the State Department about an ally, appalled, disgraceful. It's very strong criticism.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you, Peter Beinart, because with those strong words, to remind everyone, Israel/U.S., longtime allies. Right? We have talked about the criticism coming from Israel when it comes to Secretary Kerry and his efforts over there. But now to hear this criticism coming from State, from the Obama administration, how do you think that's sitting with Israel?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not well. But these are two administrations that have always had a very testy relationship.

BALDWIN: Frosty, testy.

BEINART: Probably worse than that in private.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BEINART: And things have I think gotten a little bit worse. The interview that Benjamin Netanyahu did over the weekend, which the Israeli government has not repudiated, in which he reportedly told the U.S. Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro for America never to second- guess him again on Hamas, that's also an unusual way for a much smaller ally to talk to a kind of patron like the United States.

So that may be part of what's going on. I also wouldn't be surprised if the U.N., which has been getting increasingly desperate about these -- you know, these incidents with their facilities, might have really made a plea to the United States to try to say something a little stronger. Again, not...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Ban Ki-Moon was pretty strong.

(CROSSTALK)

BEINART: Ban Ki-Moon was very, very strong, right, as Jim was saying, not to try to get America to tell Israel to stop altogether, but at least to say, use precision weapons in these circumstances, be a little more careful.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you, because when we look back through the years, the recent history when it comes to the conflict, you have '08 and '09, Israel fought the land war. There were airstrikes in 2012. Do you perceive this as different?

BEINART: I think what's different is the regional context.

On the one hand...

BALDWIN: Egypt.

BEINART: ... Egypt, which cannot play the same role, it really ended the conflict in 2012 when it had a government that was on better terms with Hamas.

The second is, Arab countries that are so hostile to the Muslim Brotherhood and therefore Hamas, they are giving Israel more rope, more leeway than we have seen in the past. And the third and maybe most important is the decline in American power. America doesn't have the same leverage over its Middle East allies. It doesn't have a great deal of leverage even over Israel, at least not leverage it's willing to use. And I think that's what's creating this vacuum, which is allowing this

war to go on so long.

BALDWIN: Do you agree, Jim Sciutto? To Peter's point, we talked about this before. The, I don't know if diminishing role, diminishing is the right word, but as far as a player in world politics, especially in the Middle East, the role of the U.S. not what it used to be.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's -- I agree with Peter that the influence is declined. I think that, you know, when you look back in recent years, you know, the U.S. has had -- it's never really been able to tell even its allies in that part of the world what to do. There have been frustrating encounters between the U.S. and Israel for a number of years, particularly over the issue of the Palestinians.

And I know Peter agrees with me on that. But there is a perception in that part of the world, and you even hear it in Europe and I heard it in Asia, too, that the U.S. is less interested, less involved.

Now, to be clear and to be fair, you know, that storyline can be overplayed, because, frankly, in each of these conflicts, many of the players say, well, we need the U.S. involved, right, that if anybody is going to solve this problem, we need the U.S. So it is one of those things where you can almost never win.

But there's also a bigger picture story going on here, Brooke, that at the end of the day, U.S. interests to some degree are declining in that part of the world. We don't have two major occupying forces. Well, we don't -- certainly not in Iraq and soon not in Afghanistan. You have a declining dependence on oil from that part of the world that over time in the long term, you know, we're never not going to be interested in that part of the world, but, frankly, our interests are a little less direct today than they were a few years ago.

BALDWIN: OK. Jim Sciutto and Peter Beinart, thank you both very much.

Just ahead here on CNN, as we get word two Americans received this top-secret serum in their battle with Ebola, I'm about to talk live with a CNN correspondent who is standing in front of one of the infected areas. We will talk about this serum. We will talk about these isolation units, the process of getting them back to the States.

Also, how much money is it costing to transport these American patients and to keep them isolated? Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN.

A top-secret experimental serum may be the miracle for two American aide workers infected with the deadly Ebola virus necessary here. The drug has actually made it possible for Nancy Writebol to prepare for her long journey home. A special jet outfitted with this isolation unit is en route to pick her up.

We are told she is likely to arrive Atlanta's Emory University Hospital at some point tomorrow. That other American victim of this deadly virus, Dr. Kent Brantly, he woke up this morning at that same Atlanta hospital after a lifesaving and well-orchestrated emergency evacuation from Liberia.

But what about the people still in the thick of the outbreak in the countries New Guinea, and Sierra Leone and Liberia?

CNN's David McKenzie is live for us outside a treatment center in Sierra Leone.

And, David, tell me just about your journey to get there and tell me what you're seeing.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, the journey here was quite extraordinary.

Today in Sierra Leone, which is practically the epicenter of this outbreak, they say that everyone should stay at home, shouldn't go to school, shouldn't go to work. And the streets were completely deserted. They say they wanted people to be at home, to reflect, to pray, and to sort of get ready for the battle ahead against this outbreak.

And, you know, I have been to an outbreak before, Brooke. And what I have seen here just in the early days of being at the scene here is just how extraordinarily more complex, bigger scale and just difficult it is to deal with this. And it has extremely important and grave consequences for this country, for neighboring countries, and, potentially, obviously, for global health -- Brooke.

BLITZER: How frightened are people where you are, David?

MCKENZIE: It's a mix.

But I think a lot of people fear the unknown. And, you know, just mention Ebola to anyone on the street in the U.S., and it's that fear factor that is -- it's just, you know, the word itself brings up images of the deadly disease.

So when people are in the region where it's actually happening, it's extremely difficult for them to deal with. But imagine this. The doctors here with Doctors Without Borders and the local staff and volunteers are all dealing directly with both suspected and confirmed cases of the Ebola virus, not only trying to, you know, quarantine them in areas to keep other people safe, but also trying to give care that might get them to battle and go home and live the rest of their lives.

There is a sense, though, that this is out of control, that the steps that they need to be ahead of this outbreak, they're not there. And there's a lot of questions being asked about the level of assistance from various groups around the world, including, it has to be said, the World Health Organization, who says they're going to raise a great deal of money, but, at this stage, is it too little, too late, where now you have cases in Nigeria?

This has spread through major countries in West Africa, and the fear is, it could spread further.

BALDWIN: David McKenzie in Sierra Leone, thank you.

As we talk about the spread almost unprecedented in nature, not only of the Ebola and what it's doing to people, but too how it's helping others, let me be fair, though. There is no cure or vaccine for Ebola just yet. But some bodies can fight it off if their basic functions get enough support to keep up the battle to stay strong.

That's exactly what Emory University Hospital hopes to offer to these two American patients, to Brantly and Writebol. One of the questions everyone is asking in addition to how are they faring medically speaking, is, who is footing the bill? Who is paying for this pair of American aide workers to get back home to the United States for that much-needed treatment?

CNN Money business correspondent Alison Kosik is here to talk about a little bit the money factor.

And so who is picking up the bill?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Who is picking up the bill?

Samaritan's Purse, that's the charitable organization that Kent Brantly works for. They're also picking up the tab for the flight for Nancy Writebol as well. But when I'm talking about this organization, they're picking up not only the flight from Liberia to the U.S., but they're also picking up the medical costs for Kent Brantly as well. He does have health insurance through his employer.

As far as specific figures about this charter flight, we're not getting them. They are tough to find. But we're getting a little bit of an idea about how much money Samaritan's Purse brings in. We checked out their latest tax return from 2012, and in its latest return, the organization took in about $471 million.

Most of that comes from contributions and grants. Here's something, Brooke, I found kind of surprising about this, though. You look at his medical care. We actually talked with one of the doctors treating him at Emory University. And he said, actually, it doesn't cost any more to treat him in that isolation unit...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Than it would in general population?

KOSIK: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Really?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You would think it would go above and beyond, extra staff. KOSIK: Not so, not according to this doctor, because you think about

his treatment. He's basically getting fluids right now, and he's getting that experimental serum. No word yet on what that's going to cost. But that's really what his treatment is.

You think about this isolation unit, a very sophisticated unit, one of the best in the country, it's been built for 12 years. Believe it or not, this is only the second time it's been in use.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Sanjay was saying earlier, Dr. Sanjay Gupta standing in front of Emory, he's also on the staff, and he was saying this is the first time this special top-secret serum has been used on humans. It had been used on monkeys. This is never before and it seems at least the male patient so far, Dr. Brantly, has been doing pretty well.

KOSIK: Yes.

BALDWIN: Pretty well.

Alison Kosik, thank you so much.

KOSIK: You got it.

BALDWIN: And just ahead, the terrorists taking over cities in Iraq have just taken over the country's largest dam. And a former CIA officer isn't holding back on what his sources are telling him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Taking this dam in Mosul is very disturbing, because if they let the water out, and they're capable of doing this, it would flood numerous Shia cities in the south.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So would this group -- would this group of militants, these terrorists, use the dam as a weapon? We will talk to a terror expert to weigh in on that.

Also, the power struggle inside Hamas as a militant group goes to war with Israel. Who is calling the shots?

That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Gaza not the only hot spot in the Mideast.

In Iraq, as we have been covering for months and months, ISIS is fighting to expand its self-proclaimed Islamic state and it won a huge trophy just over this weekend. ISIS militants have claim that they control Iraq's largest hydroelectric dam.

The dam is on the Tigris River and provides power to Mosul. This is Iraq's second largest city. An analyst calls this a -- quote -- "horrendous prospect."

Mosul in the north. Here's the maps. You can get the lay of the land, Mosul in the north. A flood from this dam could cause death and destruction and chaos, even as far-reaching about 280 miles south to Baghdad.

At the same time, the United Nations is warning that 200,000 civilians are in danger because of these ISIS gains.

Bob McFadden is an expert in transnational terrorism and a senior vice president with The Soufan Group.

So, Bob McFadden, nice to see you again, sir.

ROBERT MCFADDEN, FORMER MILITARY INVESTIGATOR: Good to see you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Talking about this dam, before we even talk about Baghdad, because that's huge in and of itself, the fact that they could use this as really a weapon to unleash the floodwater into Mosul, that's pretty significant.

MCFADDEN: Yes, I agree with the analysts using the adjective horrendous. The potential is there.

Going by Islamic State or ISIS past acts, modus operandi, earlier in this year had attempted to take over the dam in Haditha, but was fought back by a combination of Sunni tribes and Iraqi forces. Earlier in the year, it actually seized the Fallujah dam, but it used it really more as a military tactic, of course, intimidation, fear and money. But it actually flooded farm fields and used the water to prevent striking forces to make land movement.

BALDWIN: So given the modus operandi in the past, even though it's sort of been a back and forth battle over these other areas, do you think it's possible that they would absolutely use it for their gain?

MCFADDEN: Absolutely, yes.

I mean, ISIS has been very consistent in its priorities once it takes over areas, first and foremost, weapons cache, storage, ammunition and depots, then other sources of natural resources and power, whether it's oil fields, or, as said before, dams that it's tried to take over and has taken over.

Now, using it ultimately as a weapon, where it floods and causes that incredible potential damage, the hope, of course, is that it's not likely, but it will be more of an intimidation factor.

BALDWIN: With regard to the potential floods, Roger, let's put the map back up, just so people can see again. You see Mosul in the north but you see Baghdad. And we focused for so long as to whether or not ISIS could seize Baghdad. They have yet to do so.

But the fact that this dam could reach Baghdad, what would that look like? How much water are we talking that -- just in itself? MCFADDEN: Well, reading from some of the reports and some of the

experts at the United Nations, for example, the term was it could potentially, if extremely damaged or open, release a 65-foot wave wall of water, causing tremendous damage and loss of life in the north, if -- if that were to happen.

But, again, the only thing we can go by is its modus operandi, what it's done up to this point. Can it be ruled out? No, I wouldn't say so. But last reports, though, on the way over here, Brooke, Peshmerga forces, not sure if Iraqi still -- still fighting and has control, although ISIS does claim it has control of the dam.

BALDWIN: That's the latest I saw as well. And then Bob Baer, who we have on all of the time, former CIA operative, was saying that, talking to his sources, that ISIS is indeed closing in or moving toward Baghdad. That's significant, one.

But talking about the northern part of the country, and how many of these Christians, tens of thousands of Christians, are fleeing as they're overtaken -- they have overtaken much of the northern part of Iraq, do you think that was purposeful in getting the Christians out, or do you think that they were simply in the way of these militants?

MCFADDEN: Little doubt that that it suits its purpose, intimidation of the ethnic and religious minorities, the Shia up in those places, the Christians, as you mentioned.

Big development over the weekend too, with three small towns taken by ISIS up near the Turkish border. There's a sect that's lived there for many, many centuries called the Yazidis, and upwards of 40,000 to perhaps over 100,000 have fled. So the refugee problem is also a big, big issue and displaced persons as well.

Not only that, though. It separated two of the Kurdish areas with those three towns taken. So Kurds to the west, Kurds to the east will have more difficulty, you know, combining.

BALDWIN: Bob McFadden, thank you so much with The Soufan Group joining me today.

MCFADDEN: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it.

BALDWIN: And CNN sat down exclusively with the political leader of Hamas. What does he say about the critics who say Hamas uses civilians as human shields, and what will it take for Hamas to stop firing rockets at Israel? You will hear his response in an exclusive interview coming up.

Plus, Wolf Blitzer spent nearly a month in Israel covering the conflict, climbing in these tunnels. He is back in Washington fresh off a plane and he's going to talk to me about what it was like living there, covering the story off camera.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)