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The Role, And The Limits, Of Hamas; Wolf Blitzer On His Month In The Mideast; Jon Voight Slams Penelope Cruz Over Israel

Aired August 04, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It is just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. The political leader of Hamas insists he is eager to put a cease-fire in place. In fact, he says he wants to end the fighting for good.

But in this inclusive sit-down interview with our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, he says there are conditions that must be met.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHALED MESHAAL, HAMAS POLITICAL LEADER (through translator): We are ready for a cease-fire. We don't want war. We want the war to end today. We did not attack anyone. It was Netanyahu who transferred the crisis that took place in the West Bank on June 12th to Gaza. He is responsible for this. We are ready to stop this war and we want a cease-fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, of course, has a much different perspective. He says the Israeli military operation, quote, "will end only when quiet and security is restored to the citizens of Israel for a lengthy period," end quote.

We continue to hear messages from both Israeli and Hamas leaders, but we want to focus on just the day-to-day life for the people living through this conflict on both sides.

Wolf Blitzer just returned this morning, all the way from Jerusalem after spending the last month covering that conflict. So Wolf Blitzer, first just welcome home.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thank you.

BALDWIN: And second of all, when I think of you and your time over there, and all the interviews, I have the visual of you climbing in that tunnel. Tell me what that was like. What didn't we see on camera?

BLITZER: You know, it was pretty amazing when you think about it because we heard about these tunnels. I didn't know much about them. All of a sudden they became a big issue so we got permission. The Israeli military took us down there to see this tunnel and you could see some video of me going down.

First of all, you have to go down about 45 feet to where the opening of the tunnel was and just sort of go down there and then you crawl into this little hole. And then you -- you're inside, and it's about three kilometers long, two miles or so, roughly half under Gaza. Roughly half under Israel.

The part that comes up on the Israeli side is right here a kibbutz on the border with Gaza. And, you know, all these -- people were living there, but very few are there right now. They're obviously pretty scared.

All the young people. There's a few old-timers still sort of there, but it's -- if you're claustrophobic, you don't want to go into that tunnel and walk around there.

BALDWIN: I don't know if I could have done that. I know kids --

BLITZER: Yes. Go ahead.

BALDWIN: Kids helped dig the tunnel, right? That's how in some cases because they're just so -- that small.

BLITZER: And I'm not really a tall guy. But the height is maybe, 5'6", 5'7" and if you're taller than that, you've got to crouch down. It was pretty sophisticated, the concrete was pretty impressive. The tracks on the bottom where you could move sand back and forth or supplies, or whatever you wanted to do, and had electrical lines.

So it was an engineering -- it was an impressive piece of engineering. And I was, you know, happy to go down there and check it out. The Israelis now, by the way, say they have destroyed almost all if not all of those tunnels going from Gaza into Israel.

But they acknowledge, you know, they don't know what they don't know. There might be some others, but they think they have gone pretty much along the whole border between Israel and Gaza and they figured out where those tunnels are, and pretty much destroyed them.

And that has enabled the Israeli military, the ground forces, if not all -- pretty much start the withdrawal from Gaza. They could go back in if they want, but on the ground, they're out. They're going to continue the air strikes, the naval strikes, shelling from across the border if they think that's necessary.

But as far as ground troops, with the destruction of those tunnels, that was a priority number one as far as the Israeli military was concerned. I think that's pretty much over with.

BALDWIN: Wolf, I have more questions for you. But it just so happens, I have Paula Hancock sitting next to me and we were going to talk about something entirely different. You too have been in those tunnels a couple years ago?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It was actually very different tunnels to the one that Wolf actually went inside. These were tunnels in between Gaza and Egypt, the smuggling tunnels, where they brought in food, gas, livestock and also, of course, those rockets and the ammunitions.

It was very interesting to see the tunnels that Wolf went down because the ones I went down were very basic. They were -- they didn't have electricity. They didn't have any sort of air ventilation. They were literally just holes burrowed underground.

We didn't see the concrete reinforcement that you see in these military tunnels, which wolf was inside. And, of course, when I went down, it was about four years ago, so it shows that Hamas has a lot of experience in these tunnels and they have learned from these smuggling tunnels.

And the one -- seeing the one that Wolf went down, you can see exactly what they have learned and how much better they have become at it.

BALDWIN: What about -- thank you. Wolf, what about the fact that you -- you were over there for just about a month. So I have to imagine, I mean, little over a month ago, that was the three Israeli teenagers abducted and killed and the Palestinian teenager in the revenge killing. And that was the beginning of the rockets and the bloodshed. What did you notice over the course of those weeks covering this conflict?

BLITZER: Well, I was practically pretty surprised. I thought it was going to last a few days. I've been covering this story for a long time. I didn't think it was going to go on. Still going on right now. And if somebody would have said to me then it's going to be a month into this, and it's become a real war.

And so many people are going to be killed, so many casualties, so many people in Gaza. And that 63 or 64 Israeli soldiers have been killed and three civilians. That's been pretty surprising to me. I thought it was going to be resolved fairly quickly, just as in 2008, 2012.

But obviously, that has not turned out to be the case. What was very noteworthy to me, as it's been going on within Israel, the mood seems to becoming more supportive of Prime Minister Netanyahu's position, because every day these rockets and missiles come in.

People -- interrupts people's lives, even though the iron dome is effective in destroying these rockets and missiles over populated areas, you hear the sirens go off, run into those shelters.

And one image I remember, I was on one of the outside of Tel Aviv, Rafa, and I didn't see people in the water, and this is peak beach season in that part of the world along the Mediterranean, beaches are beautiful.

And a lot of parents said to me they didn't want their kids going in the water, because they would have 60 seconds once the sirens go off to get out of the water and run to a shelter, if you will, some sort of bunker, and they thought it would be bad to be in the water swimming or surfing, whatever they were doing. So it was pretty -- that was just one little aspect of daily life in the Tel Aviv area that I noticed that -- and obviously, what's going on in Gaza is horrible. By any definition, you see, you know, all the people who have died and been injured, the homes destroyed, the camps.

It's a horrible situation all around. What was surprising to me, how long it has gone on, and unfortunately, how much longer it could go on.

BALDWIN: So you got on the plane thinking a couple days, and lo and behold, you were there for a month. Phenomenal reporting from you and your entire crew, Wolf Blitzer. Welcome home.

And we'll be watching much more from you coming up on "THE SITUATION ROOM" 5:00 Eastern here on CNN. And Paula Hancocks, thank you to you as well.

Coming up next, actor, Jon Voight is livid with this power couple. He says Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem may be helping incite anti- Semitism over the world. Hear what they did, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Here's one word for you, ignorant. That is the word that actor, Jon Voight has labeled actress, Penelope Cruz and her husband, Javier Bardem. Let's start at the beginning. Bardem and Cruz signed an open letter condemning Israel for its military action in Gaza.

In this blistering op-ed, Voight calls it a poison letter, accusing the pair of, quote, "Fanning the fire of anti-Semitism." He writes this. Quote, "My name is Jon Voight and I am more than angry. I am heart sick that people like Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem could insight anti-Semitism all over the world and are oblivious to the damage they have caused."

Joining me now, our entertainment correspondent, Nischelle Turner. Back up a little.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Take me back.

TURNER: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Why -- why is he so mad?

TURNER: Yes, everyone is probably saying why is Jon Voight so incensed. And this is interesting because usually we see Hollywood galvanized on topics and here we are definitely seeing a split. Jon Voight has never one to shy away from venturing into political issues.

And he's doing it once again with this open letter or actually more like an opinion piece that was aimed at Javier Bardem and Penelope Cruz. Here's why he is so outraged. Jon Voight says Bardem and Cruz, who are married. They co-signed this letter last week, attacking the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians. They were labelling what the Israeli military is doing as genocide. They were immediately attacked for their words, which prompted both of them then to issue statements, saying that they were just trying to make pleas for peace.

Here's what Bardem wrote in his second letter. He said, quote, "I am now being labeled by some as anti-Semitic, as is my wife, which is the antithesis of who we are as human beings. We detest anti-Semitism as much as we detest the horrible and painful consequences of war."

Penelope Cruz then said she was, quote, "Not an expert on the situation and said that her only wish and intention in signing that group letter is the hope that there will be peace in both Israel and Gaza. These apologies, of course, we're not enough for Jon Voight.

He wrote this opinion column published by the Hollywood reporter on Sunday that Bardem and Cruz -- this is what he said, they should, quote, "hang your heads in shame and ask forgiveness from the suffering people in Israel." He said both of them, like you mentioned, were obviously -- these are his words, obviously ignorant.

And he warned that the letter they signed could incite anti-Semitism over the world. He also went on to say he was more than angry, like you said. He talked about the fact that they had the opportunity to use their celebrity for good. But instead he says they used it to defame Israel, which, of course, made him just incensed.

BALDWIN: It is so interesting watching a lot of times Hollywood all coming together on something, whatever that -- whatever that cause celeb may be at the time. But seeing the deletion of tweets, you know, in this particular case. It's been interesting to watch.

TURNER: Yes, you know, it is interesting because over -- you know, in the coverage of this, we have seen certain celebrities come out. Rihanna, Kim Kardashian, Dwight Howard, giving sympathy or using things on Twitter like free Palestine or pray for Palestine.

And then when they're criticized, they take them back and just say, we just want peace all over. But this could be a generational thing, as well, and could actually mirror what's going on in society, Brooke. Because we're seeing, kind of conservatives and some Republicans say the Obama administration is isn't as strongly behind Israel as we would like them to be.

And now we're seeing some older Hollywood times like Jon Voight saying this new generation isn't as behind Israel as they should be.

BALDWIN: I heard that from a number of people. To Brian Stelter's point earlier, may be a social media thing, as well. Nischelle Turner, thank you very much.

TURNER: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, I want you to take a look at something. Take a look at this picture. This is the couple on their honeymoon, more than 40 years ago. She is Jewish. He is Palestinian. And now their daughter has written a book about this interesting relationship and has unique perspective on what's going on in the Middle East right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We, of course, have been watching this latest escalation of violence for 28 days now. Just today Israel is dealing with two attacks in Jerusalem. Police say they foiled an attack when they shot and killed the driver of an earth mover who had overturned a passenger bus.

Also, Israeli police tell CNN a man on a motorcycle opened fire at the entrance of a major tunnel connecting the city to the Dead Sea area. Meantime, in Gaza, the Israeli military says it did bomb a refugee camp in Gaza City.

And just since this fighting broke out back on July 7th, more than 1,800 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, 67 Israelis have been killed, all but three of them soldiers.

And I really wanted to talk to my next guest. She has a very unique perspective. Claire Hajaj, she has a Jewish mother and a Palestinian father and talks about her parents' brave attempt to rewrite tribal hatred. The book is called "Ishmael's Oranges." Claire, I just want to welcome you to CNN.

And first question just reading about your story is how did your parents meet?

CLAIRE HAJAJ, AUTHOR, "ISHMAEL'S ORANGES": They met in the 1960s. An era where I think a lot of things seemed possible that maybe don't feel possible today. They fell in love at university. They saw themselves as being enemy tribes. At that point, they were just two young people trying to make their way. Unfortunately, life did catch up with them in that respect.

BALDWIN: As life has caught up. We have seen the violence through the years between you know, these two warring sides. Did you ever feel compelled to choose a side?

HAJAJ: Absolutely. I mean, this conflict is like Solomon's baby in a way. You're asked to pick half and you can't be both. It just doesn't seem to be possible. There are two ways of dealing with that either you pick one and lots of people do pick one.

And that's a far more comfortable place to be because you know who your hero and you know who your villain is. I don't live in a world of villains and heroes. During this conflict particularly, that's been a hard position to keep hold of.

It seems to me here that there are heroes and villains on both sides. I can't choose between them idea logically. I only judge on what is happening, what I see.

BALDWIN: So with the unique vision, the unique perspective that you have watching this violence back and forth for the last four weeks, given the lineage of your father and your mother, what are you thinking?

HAJAJ: I think I feel what any -- I mean, I'm a Jew according to the Jewish religion. I'm a Muslim according to the Muslim faith, and a Palestinian according to my family and a British according to my other family. To me I'm a mother.

I look at this and see it as a mother should see it, I think. Sickened and helpless to see death on this scale and to see two communities that I love in different ways and have to love and can't help loving tearing themselves apart, hurting themselves and each other so badly and getting nothing that they want out of it.

To me, that's the fundamental point, nothing that they want to get, either the Palestinians or the Jews, not dignity, not security, not freedom, not statehood, not freedom from fear, they're not going to get it this way.

BALDWIN: Claire Hajaj, "Ishmael's Oranges." Thank you.

Coming up next, we have to get to breaking news. We're just learning a patient in New York is being tested for Ebola. What we know at this moment next on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Breaking right now on CNN, we have just learned that a patient at New York City's Mount Sinai Hospital is currently being tested for Ebola. We are told he had a high fever among other issues and just recently reportedly came back from a trip to West Africa. That patient right now is in isolation.

This, of course, as we've been watching the Ebola outbreak in this part of the world and two patients now, one at Emory, one en route to Emory to be treated in Atlanta.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for joining me here in New York live on CNN. Let's go live to Jerusalem. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.