Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Fight for Eastern Ukraine Ratcheting Up; Ebola Virus Not Easily Detected; New Apps Created about Israel-Gaza Conflict; Cease-Fire in Effect Between Israel and Hamas

Aired August 05, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In this fight for eastern Ukraine, tensions are only ratcheting up. A NATO official tells CNN there are about 20,000 Russian troops along the border. And it is 8,000 more than we saw last week. And it's not just the number that's triggering concerns for this part of the world. The NATO official says they are now seeing infantry, a lot of artillery and special forces and they could be on the move in a matter of hours. That's how quickly this could happen.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's military is putting its focus and its fire power into a push against pro-Russian rebels holding two key areas. Government security officials say they are preparing for a, quote, "massive assault in a city of Donetsk."

And that's where we find our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He joins me live in this hour. Nick Paton Walsh -- forgive me, Nick.

Nick, we have Ukrainian forces have this strong push, whole Russian forces are gathering around the border. Are we expecting the Russians to make a move?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it is probably unlikely at this point they would be able to mount anything like a full scale intervention here. The numbers simply are not strong enough.

But Brooke, that presence suddenly doubled in the last week, almost seems to give the Kremlin the option of intervene in limited fashion. And I'm sure the potential threat for all of that said to have power and the aircraft artillery being involved. Perhaps might check the advance Ukrainian army that I want to must say provoke Moscow into intervening.

But we are here in Donetsk, Brooke, hearing an extraordinarily eerie evening. Silence shattered just recently by small arms fire near where I'm standing. Behind me over the hill, when you could see the skyline, there was a little bit of smoke fighting in the edge of the city, apparently the Ukrainian forces moving in here. But I should point out, what is this doing the investigation for crash

into MH-17. What I hear from an official with knowledge of the investigation, that in fact, been constantly moving Ukrainian and rebel front line around that crash site, are in fact, adjacent to key parts of the debris, only the side of it, in fact, placing that vital wreckage in very precarious situation.

Inspectors unable to continue their work in the way they wanted today. Rebels say they could not access bits of it because it was mine.

So a very precarious situation for that investigation, a volatile sense here in center of Donetsk. We really do see ourselves, the Ukrainian army, advancing on speed towards the center and militants on the sector side, certainly thing out. And above all of that, still the threat of Russian forces massing not far at all from where I'm standing -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: You know, you've been covering, Nick, this war zone and the back and forth over this territory in eastern Ukraine, especially with this crash site smack dab in the middle. The headline to me here, and I am reading and listening to you is, would it be accurate to say, it seems, that the rebels for once are losing this battle?

WALSH: Clearly, if you look at what is happening around Donetsk, and that has been a symbolic stronghold from them from the beginning, the council for that call, that self-declared (INAUDIBLE) People's Republic -- Donetsk people's republic, forgive me.

Yes, they are on the back boat. They are losing ground fast. They have driven past towns where the Ukrainian armies have taken themselves. There seem checkpoints, separatists militants are clearly deserve it.

Yes, they are retreating. The question is, do, as they have in previous towns they call stronghold suddenly vanish overnight, unlikely perhaps they are still around the much thinner on the ground and some worry they are going to let the Ukrainian army move in and then (INAUDIBLE) attack in around the city. Neither side really has the troops to hold this million-strong city when it had a million people. So many have left. Many are worried about the scrappiness, the brutality and the potential of civilians to get caught in the fighting that may come -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much today.

And just a quick reminder, we're watching and waiting for President Obama. He will be speaking at a major summit with leaders of African nations. Will he mention this insider attack that killed a U.S. general outside of Kabul? Stay tuned for that. We'll be watching.

Also ahead, my next guest says it's highly possible someone infected with Ebola, with his deadly virus, could arrive at an American airport without anyone having a clue. But there are tests that could make it easier to detect. That's next. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: Bringing Ebola to the United States on purpose for the plan to quarantine and treat the patient, that's one thing. But having someone just arrived at the U.S. airport with the virus, that's totally different. And it's public health experts' worst fear. Unfortunately, it is also something that has been given a lot of thought to.

CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen breaks down what exactly they are looking for.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Scenario one, airplane staff notice a traveler is sick on the plane. The pilot calls it in.

And when that plane lands here in the U.S., then what happens?

FRANCISCO ALVARADO-RAMY, CDC SUPERVISORY MEDICAL CENTER: We usually board the plane if we are on site with personal protective equipment. We go to the patient. We ask them questions about what symptoms do they have. We would probably use a stretcher and the ambulance will be waiting for them right next to the airplane at the tarmac.

COHEN: Scenario two. The airplane staff doesn't notice a sick passenger and the traveler makes it inside the airport. Customs and immigration officials, trained to spot the signs of Ebola, take notice and tell the CDC.

So if you're worried that this person might have Ebola, you bring them to the isolation room?

ALVARADO-RAMY: Yes, we do.

COHEN: Isolated from the other travelers, quarantine officers making assessment. They will check for the cardinal signs of Ebola like fever.

ALVARADO-RAMY: 98.9 --

COHEN: And the public health workers will wear masks, goggles, gloves, and a protective gown. The examination could only take just 15 minutes and then the suspected Ebola patient would be whist away into a waiting ambulance on the Tarmac headed to an isolation room at a hospital.

There is a third, particularly worrisome scenario, and this is it. Someone is infected with Ebola, but doesn't don't know it because they have gotten sick yet. They get on the plane to the United States. They get off the plane. They go out into the public. And then let's say a week later they start feeling sick. But hopefully what would happen is they get to a doctor, the doctor would take a good travel history and that person would be isolated in the hospital very quickly.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Elizabeth, thank you.

We should point out that Nigeria is taking its own steps to head off infected passengers at their airport. There are airports in that country. They are looking for fever, a telltale sign of Ebola. But the thing is it's not that simple.

Patrick Tucker is tech editor at Defense One. Patrick, welcome.

PATRICK TUCKER, TECHNOLOGY EDITOR, DEFENSE ONE: Hey Brooke, thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: OK, Patrick. So the headline of your piece today that I read, there's really no way to screen for Ebola at airports. All right. That said, let's talk about the thermal scanners that you get into to protect feverish patients. I know they tried that with the bird flu a couple of years ago. Would it work with Ebola?

TUCKER: Not so fantastically. There are airports in Africa right now, South African airports at least two. Also in China, they are using some thermal scanners to screen patients getting off the planes for feverish symptoms.

The problem is this. As you just mentioned, the period with between which you can contract Ebola and start showing symptoms, like fever, it can be two days to 21 days. So you can be carrying it, move into the country and have absolutely no signature of like elevated temperature show up on a thermal scanner whatsoever. So, it's not going to detect fever the same way it does with bird flu and even in those instances it was not seen as particularly effective.

BALDWIN: What about a blood test?

TUCKER: Well, blood tests are -- the way the Nigerian government is doing it, if you show up at the airport, you show signs of fever, perhaps just by -- because you're sweating or you seem to look sick, they will take you aside, they will put you in an isolated area and what will happen is they will run a blood test. Now here's the thing with the blood test. That will give you conclusive evidence of Ebola sickness. You can -- the antigens show up immediately -- I mean, in the blood sample, but it can take up to eight hours and it can actually be really costly too.

So while it's conclusive, it's just not at all practical for a major airport in the United States to be pulling out people that don't necessarily have Ebola, that may just be showing signs of fever, and subjecting them to a test that is very expensive and it will take eight hours. It's not going to happen.

BALDWIN: Let's get back to your point because I think that is the biggest point of all about how you can show symptoms of this in two days, you can show symptoms of Ebola in 21 days. I mean, let's say I had it, heaven forbid, and I'm leaving West Africa via London back to New York. I mean, it's quite possible I won't know I'm a carrier from not showing symptoms until I get home. And I could, it's not airborne, let's make it crystal clear, but I could infect someone or leave something on a plane. If somebody wipes their nose, it's done.

TUCKER: Well, it is passed by a liquid -- so feces, vomit, blood, things like that. And, yes, everyone that I spoke to was emphatic about the point that the United States is not going to become Sierra Leone. This is not the way this will --

BALDWIN: Thank goodness.

TUCKER: More people are going to die of malaria and other highly communicable diseases this year. At the same time, it does show a big gap in a way we handle border security. So really, the best way to stop more people with Ebola from entering the United States or screen for it, is understanding exactly what we just talked about, where they came from, their sort of flight history. Understanding them from a data perspective, not necessarily in terms of the molecules operating in their body but in terms of the history they created when they went from one place to the other. And that's exactly what they are doing right now. And fortunately, it moves so slowly that you can do that pretty effectively. It sort of works like pre-check by instead of looking for terrorists, we're looking for people that maybe carriers of this virus.

BALDWIN: A sense of profiling, just looking it, you know, travel history. Understandable.

Patrick Tucker, thank you so much.

TUCKER: Right.

BALDWIN: And as President Obama, speaking of these different African nations, a bunch of leaders are not in Washington because of what is happening back at home. But a numbers of leaders from Africa are there in Washington. We're watching for President Obama to speak.

Also, we know that Israel and the United States, the two countries they are allies but the two leaders don't always see eye-to-eye. And the criticism from the White House over some recent Israeli military operations has been pretty striking. So is the already frosty relationship between Obama and Benjamin Netanyahu. Is it worse after this conflict? We'll discuss that and again watching and waiting to hear from President Obama coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The guns have fallen silent in Gaza. Israeli troops have left the Gaza Strip and the cease-fire that started more than 13 hours ago is holding. Both sides are sending signals that they are finished fighting at least for now.

(INAUDIBLE) a longer, more permanent troops are to begin in Egypt once Israeli negotiators get there. A Palestinian team is already waiting. And the mediators are the Egyptians.

And I want you to take note here. These talks in Cairo for now, they do not involve John Kerry, the U.S. secretary of state. So with us now from Washington is veteran correspondent Ron Fournier. He is editorial director and also senior political columnist for the "National Journal."

And just on that last point, Ron, are you surprised secretary Kerry is not in Egypt?

RON FOURNIER, EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, NATIONAL JOURNAL: Not really considering how we've had a little dodgy relationship between the United States and the two parties thus far. But I think if this gets serious, actually I know if this gets serious and there is any hope of something permanent and durable and very lasting happening, United States has to be involved. Secretary Kerry has to be involved.

BALDWIN: OK. So I heard your adjective dodgy. I have heard frosty. I have heard worse than that between Netanyahu and Obama specifically. Let's keep in mind the president has pretty much supported Israel and the actions in Gaza. But that said, looking at the relationship now, Ron, compared to before these past couple of weeks, you know, years before, do you think it's worse than it was?

FOURNIER: You know what, we can overstate these things and actually dodgy is probably not even the right word. But the problem is, they both very serious allies. They want the same thing. United States really supports Israel. It wants Israel's security to be foremost. But they have different focuses.

Israel's focus, Netanyahu's focus has been on killing as many members of that terrors organization, Hamas, as possible inclosing those tunnels.

BALDWIN: Decapitating Hamas.

FOURNIER: And that's understandable. Kerry's focus has been on getting a peace deal and a new relationship in the Gaza, new paradigm with the Gaza that is lasting so we that don't have this happening. Not just two weeks from now but two years from now. He's looking for something that has outlined him. So the overall missions are the same, but the way they have been going about it tactically has been different. And that's what has got them cross ways.

BALDWIN: Jus quickly, I mean, I know Congress is on recess. But it's been awful quiet in Washington.

FOURNIER: Yes. It's been nice. It is actually been interesting that we have this little reaction out of Congress as we had. You would expect, you know, in past years, Congress was very much outward looking and a very internationalist Congress. More and more, especially on the right, that are reflecting the mood of the country and are less outward looking and more inward focus. We have less chatter about what is happening overseas than we normally would in Congress.

BALDWIN: Ron Fournier, thank you so much with the "National Journal" joining me from a very quiet Washington, D.C., for the moment. Thank you, sir. FOURNIER: Take care.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, a new app, it is called bomb Gaza. It allows users to kill civilians from the sky on your phone. It's a game. Hundreds downloaded it. Hear what Google just did in response.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Plenty of disturbing stories that have come out of this latest round of fighting between Israel and Hamas. But this next story spirals well outside of the bounds of disturbing and it comes in a form of a smartphone app. Let me show you this. The app is called bomb Gaza. You heard me right. This was presented for your gaming pleasure on Google play. Let's be fair, there are apparently apps for hitting Israel as well.

So CNN's tech correspondent Samuel Burke has been looking into this, which is just disgusting either way you look at it. Then people do this and put this on their phones. There has been a development, though.

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN TECH CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It is extraordinary, quite frankly. And I think everybody, no matter how we see this conflict, you will find this distasteful. This app was called bomb Gaza that you just showed. There was also another one called game missile pride. And that one, the objective, you are trying to get points by avoiding the iron dome, getting the rocket into Israel from Gaza. There has been so much outrage, not just on social media, but also on people going to the Google play store which is where you get the apps for android where these were available.

Let me just read you one from one of the users which pretty much sums it all up. Tragic, pathetic, sickening, one user said. What an utterly depressing world we live in when people make something like this. Anyone playing this is primitive and in did Google has listened to what people were saying. They started to take down this app. About a dozen of these apps were up, Brooke. But one interesting to this one users, one of the makers of one of these apps said that there Apple be available soon on Apple. I have Apple for comment. They has not said what they are going to do yet. But almost a dozen of these games available for people to play.

BALDWIN: Kind of make sure whether what hoops or lust thereof that people have to jump through to create apps and get them out there and (INAUDIBLE) in the first place, but good for Google.

Samuel Burke, thank you very much.

Coming up, you saw this unfolding live earlier in the day here on CNN from this ambulance, we saw the second Ebola patient being taken on the stretcher at this Atlanta area Emory University medical center. Next, we will talk live to her pastor from Charlotte, Carolina about her condition and what she's been telling her family.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)