Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

U.S. Provides Military Aid to Kurdish Forces Fighting ISIS Militants in Iraq; Violence Continues Between Hamas and Israel after Ceasefire Ends; President Obama Speaks about U.S. Air Strikes and Humanitarian Efforts in Iraq

Aired August 09, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Just on the edge of 10:00. I hope Saturday's been good to you so far. I'm Christi Paul.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. Coming up on 7:00 on the West Coast. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And in just about 25 minutes, the president of the United States is expected to deliver a statement there from the south lawn of the White House on the situation in Iraq.

PAUL: Yes. We're going to bring you the president's comments live when they happen. So, stay close for that.

BLACKWELL: And we begin right there in Iraq this hour with some stunning new video of the first U.S. airstrikes against ISIS militants.

PAUL: Take a look at these images from the U.S. military. FA-18 fighter jets closing in an ISIS artillery unit and then, here it comes, that massive explosion.

BLACKWELL: Now, those were the 500-pound laser-guided bombs unleashed on the Islamist group that now has thousands of Iraqis running for their living.

PAUL: So, the attacks happened near Irbil, that's the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan and a base of U.S. military and diplomatic operations there.

In the meantime, West of Irbil, as you can see here on the map, over Mount Sinjar, U.S. military planes have dropped more water and more food for the folks there.

BLACKWELL: Take a look inside this warehouse. These are packages that are being prepped for members of the Yazidi minority. They're trapped there as you heard there in the mountains by ISIS militants who say they either have to convert to Islam or die.

PAUL: This night vision video there that we're just getting in, too, shows the pallet dropping off a cargo plane. There they go. The Australian prime minister said today that his nation may contribute aircraft to the USA mission as well. BLACKWELL: Take a look at the aerial view here. You see the circles

there. These are the parachutes connected to those bundles as they now fall down into that range of the mountains. We're learning this morning from British news reports as well that a British cargo plane is now heading to Iraq to deliver more aid. The United Nations tries now to clear what they call a humanitarian corridor to help Iraqis flee.

PAUL: President Obama reiterated today in his weekly address, though, that, quote, "American combat troops will not be returning to fight in Iraq." We do, as I said, or as Victor said, expect to hear from him in 25 minutes and we will take you there live when that happens. But aides say he's monitoring the situation, the potential for more air strikes as he leaves today for vacation in Martha's Vineyard.

BLACKWELL: Here at CNN we're covering all the angles of this developing story with senior international correspondent Ivan Watson there in Erbil in the Kurdish area of Iraq, a former U.S. ambassador to Iraq Christopher Hill, and CNN military analyst Major General "Spider" Marks. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining us. I want to start with Ivan. I want to get reaction there from the ground. What are Iraqis saying about this round of U.S. air strikes?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the Kurds are very much relieved, Victor. Some of those air strikes were hitting just about 20 minutes drive west of Erbil, the capital of the Kurdistan region where I'm standing right now, just across the Zhob River, just past the Kurdish-held town which gives a sense of how close the ISIS militants had gotten to the Kurdish safe haven, not only a place that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have fled to within the last three days, but also home to some 1 million plus Kurds who would presumably also join a mass exodus of people fleeing if ISIS was able to reach this place. So senior Kurdish officials very grateful that the U.S. has stepped in. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOSHYAR ZEBARI, FORMER IRAQI FOREIGN MINISTER: That's why we are most grateful and express our gratitude and deep, deep appreciation for President Obama and the U.S. administration, and for the courageous U.S. army and airmen who are now patrolling the skies of Iraq and Iraqi Kurdistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Of course, Victor and Christi, this is not the first time U.S. air power has helped protect the Kurds of northern Iraq. There was a no-fly zone led by U.S. air power for more than a decade leading up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq helping protect this area from Saddam Hussein, and then the Kurds worked very closely with U.S. special force and air strikes when the U.S. invasion began to push back the Iraqi government forces that were facing this area. So we're seeing a new version of that unfolding as we speak. Victor and Christi?

PAUL: Ivan, OK, now that the air strikes have been there, has that given the Kurdish Peshmerga a chance to kind of reformulate and get itself together? How equipped are they moving forward from your vantage point?

WATSON: Well, it's a good question. Here's what one senior Kurdish official told me. When Kurdish Peshmerga try to shoot at the armored Humvees that the ISIS militants captured from the Iraqi army two months ago, their bullets literally bounce all of those vehicles. Those are vehicles that came from the U.S. military arsenal provided to the Iraqi army which collapsed en masse, and those weapons were then seized by the ISIS militants and are now being used against the Kurdish Peshmerga very effectively and at pinpoint locations along a front line that runs for some 900 miles. That gives you a sense how stretched thin the Kurdish Peshmerga are and why they need, they say they need, the U.S. air power to help defend their front lines against those ISIS militants.

PAUL: Ivan Watson, thank you so much. We really appreciate that. Let's talk more about the U.S. air strikes and military strategy in Iraq. Wow, what a statement to realize that the U.S. is dropping air strikes now on ISIS who have some of the U.S. artillery and equipment in its own hands and using it against us.

BLACKWELL: That begs the question to the general. General, as we move forward here, I guess there has to be some hesitancy to even arm the Kurds. You've got to support them in a way that we don't see any more of U.S. resources getting into the hands of is, beyond the air strikes. What's the plan?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, you know, Victor, it's almost like, where do we start in this conversation vis-a-vis ISIS in Iraq. There are so many levels to this challenge we have, and it truly starts with a lack of strategy.

But to your very question, clearly the United States is going to back up the Iraqi military. The Kurds and the Peshmerga are an extremely competent fighting force, they have been for years very reliable, which indicates to you and should indicate to anybody else that ISIS is immensely talented in terms of the training they have, the equipment that they've been able to get from supporters as well as what they've been able to steal from the Iraqi security forces. And so this is a very convention's military not subscribing to any kinds of policy bounds or rules of engagement.

So the United States is going to continue to engage to make sure they can achieve some space and some time so Iraq can get its act together and try to go after ISIS. Right now we are looking at simply a matter of preservation. We can't afford to let Maliki fall. If he goes in exile, he's going to end up in Tehran. We're going to have total ungoverned space in Iraq, and that's not an outcome any of us want.

PAUL: Ambassador Hill, we've been hearing all morning ISIS was moving closer to Erbil, even before that report there from Ivan. Wondering, knowing there are several hundred U.S. military and diplomatic personnel in Erbil, are you leaning at all towards an evacuation for them?

CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: No. I'm pretty confident, actually, that the Peshmerga certainly combined with these U.S. air strikes will be able to defend Erbil. But I think there's a broader issue here at work. The Kurds have for many years signaled their preference for independence, and frankly the only reason they have not declared independence is that the United States has told them we don't want them to do that. We want to keep Iraq together.

So I think the consequence of not helping Kurdistan in their true hour of need I think would be to change the equation for them and where they decide, in fact, the U.S. opinion in this matter shouldn't count as much as they've counted it in the past. So I think it's been very important for us to be engaged.

As for evacuating U.S. personnel, I mean, obviously, these are decisions that need to be made on the ground, but I do believe that with these air strikes and with, as General Marks said, a very highly competent albeit lightly armed Peshmerga, they should be able to defend Kurdish lands. I think it's important to understand that the withdrawal of Peshmerga forces from around the dam and these other areas was not the same as the route of Iraqi forces a few weeks ago. So I'm confident that if we stay with this, and if, as General Marks says we have a broader strategy, an understanding that this ISIS group got their training, they are battle-ready and they got all of that from Syria. So there's no solution to this problem without a solution in Syria.

BLACKWELL: Mr. Ambassador, I want to stay with you for a moment. Since the U.S. withdrawal, there has been, on different levels, continued fighting between the Sunni and the Shia there. Sunnis from what we understand, killing more Shia, and in Syria, add the Alawites with Bashar al Assad's leadership essentially fighting between Muslims. But not until hundreds of thousands of Christians were under siege did we see air strikes from the U.S. and some military involvement. Is there any correlation here between now Christians are being persecuted, this is when the U.S. gets in? Essentially would the U.S. be involved in this were still Muslims coming Muslims?

HILL: I think the real issue was the threat to Kurdistan that caused the U.S. to be engaged. I'm very pleased that we've stepped in with this humanitarian assistance. But your observation has been noted in Baghdad as well, especially among the Shia. The Shia don't believe this is all about whether Maliki has engaged in enough Sunni outreach. The Shia believe this is about a Sunni war against the Shia. And by the way, they have a lot of evidence for this over the years and before our invasion as well.

So the Shia look at this and sort of wonder why does the U.S. only engage when there are Christians at stake? So I think we need to bear that in mind, especially as we go forward on governance issues in Baghdad. The issue is not just to find someone who's pleasing to the Sunnis. The issue, frankly, is, an understanding that Maliki's time has passed.

But the Shia need to be able to come up with a strong leader of their own, and frankly, every time they've come up with a leader not named Maliki, the Sunnis have accused that person of somehow being an Iranian stooge. PAUL: All right, Ambassador Chris Hill and General "Spider" Marks, so

grateful for both of you gentlemen, and for your perspectives this morning. Thank you.

MARKS: Thanks, Christi.

PAUL: Sure.

And again, just a reminder, President Obama set to speak in about 15 minutes from now. He is expected to make a statement on this very issue on Iraq. So we'll bring you those comments live as soon as he steps up to the podium.

BLACKWELL: Peace talks crumbled Friday and Gaza has once again become a bloody war zone, the other big story we're there following in the Middle East. Reports of at least five people killed already this morning in rocket attacks. We're headed to Jerusalem for the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Good to you have back with us. Just a reminder, in about ten minutes President Obama is scheduled to speak about the situation in Iraq there from the south lawn of the White House. Before he leaves for his two-week vacation in Martha's Vineyard. We'll stand by for the comments and bring them to you live.

PAUL: Meanwhile, we're looking at more death and destruction in Gaza in the wake of peace talks once again that fell apart in a day since the latest short-lived truce came to an end. Ten Palestinians have been reportedly been killed. Three apparently died this morning when Israeli rockets destroyed a mosque. Two others were killed in a separate strike.

BLACKWELL: The Israeli military went after a total of 30 targets in Gaza today and they say five rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel.

PAUL: For the latest we want to go to CNN Jake Tapper who is live in Jerusalem. Jake, is there any more clarity on who was firing those rockets into Israel as we know Hamas has denied doing so.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Israeli government says that regardless of who is firing these rockets from Gaza into Israel, Hamas, since they control the West Bank, control Gaza, having been elected to do so in 2006, is responsible. It does seem possible, if not likely, that other groups in Gaza are the ones firing rockets, whether the Mujahidin brigades or Palestinian Islamic Jihad or some other group, it's not clear. But as far as the Israeli government is concerned, Hamas since they run Gaza is primarily responsible.

Israel says that they won't even entertain any discussions in Cairo. Those discussions about a ceasefire and perhaps a peace process beyond that, being run by the Egyptian government. Israel won't entertain participating in them until the rocket attacks stop. We heard, of course, from the Palestinians, primarily being led by Hamas, in the call for the Israeli blockade against Gaza to be lifted before any ceasefire talks commence or continue. So right now that's where we are, two sides not blinking. The

Palestinians for now presenting a publicly unified front, even if behind the scenes different factions are pushing for a ceasefire unconditionally.

So we had actually a fairly quiet night from roughly 10:00 local until dawn, no Palestinian rockets, no Israeli air strikes. But then the sun rose and Palestinian rockets began, and Israel started hitting them again, and now we have more death on the Palestinian side.

Now let's go to my colleague, John Vause. He is in Gaza right now. John?

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jake. It does seem to be as if we're entering kind of a de-escalation here, if you like. The Israeli air strikes continue but they appear to be much more targeted attacks that hit that mosque earlier today. Three people died there, including at least a member of Hamas, a fighter with Hamas. Whether or not a senior military commander is yet to be confirmed. There was also that strike on militants who are riding motor bikes.

So far today five people have been killed and the IDF continues to hit targets around Gaza, not just here in Gaza city as well. As you mentions, the rocket fire continues, but again at a much lower intensity than it was before the ceasefire. Certainly a lot lower intensity than it was at the height of the fighting. About half a dozen rockets I think have been fired into Israel, maybe one or two more in the last hour or so.

And we're seeing that the rockets which are being fired are in fact the sort of locally made versions of these rockets. They're less sophisticated. They have a shorter range. They're only going as far as southern Israel. It seems militants here are either preserving their arsenal or longer range missiles or rockets which can reach as far away as Tel Aviv or Haifa. And again, this is Islamic Jihad, one of those militant groups taking responsibility for all of the rocket fire.

And we did hear a short time ago a lot of talk amongst Palestinians that maybe the Israelis are heading back to Cairo once the Jewish Sabbath were over, that maybe these ceasefire negotiations would resume there. But the Israelis saying that will not happen. As for the Palestinians, they are staying to their core demand, which is they want this economic blockade lifted. And Jake, you talked about the political pressure which Benjamin Netanyahu is facing in Israel to continue with this military campaign. Well, it seems there's political pressure too here for Hamas. They have set such a high bar for this military campaign that for their attacks on Israel that they now need something to show for it. Back to you guys.

BLACKWELL: All right, Jake there in Jerusalem and John to you in Gaza, thank you very much to both of you.

PAUL: Thank you both.

Well, the president's decision to launch air strikes over Iraq has drawn some mixed reactions, let's say, back home.

BLACKWELL: Americans who fought in the Iraq war are sounding off on the new mission to bomb militants. And we're just moments away, just about six minutes now from the scheduled time that President Obama is expected to come out to the south lawn and make a few comments about the situation in Iraq. We'll have those for you live. Keep it here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: So glad to you have with us here at NEW DAY. Any moment we're expecting to hear from President Obama on the situation in Iraq, a live look at the White House. He's expected to be on the south lawn shortly.

BLACKWELL: He's going to leaving for a two-week stay at Martha's Vineyard later this morning. Let's go to CNN's Erin McPike there at the White House now. Erin, obviously he's going to speak about the situation in Iraq. But is there any indication from the White House what we should expect to hear from President Obama?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christi and Victor, we did hear from him today in terms of his weekly address rationalizing the decision for these food drops as well as the air strikes. So I expect we will hear from him about how those two-pronged missions are going so far.

But we also heard from Josh Earnest, the press secretary, yesterday as well, he said there is no specific end date for when this mission will end. So we don't know how long it will go on and what it will look like. Maybe we get more of an indication on that from the president here shortly.

PAUL: I would think perhaps we'd also get a gauge of just how successful or unsuccessful the strikes thus far have been, yes?

MCPIKE: That's absolutely right, Christi. And we have been hearing a little bit from the Pentagon so far on how this mission is going. But, yes, we do expect we will hear more from the president. He's supposed to be giving a bit of a longer statement before he gets ready to go on vacation. But I should also point out that he will be returning to the White House next Sunday, and he will be here for another couple of days before he then goes back on vacation later the following week, Christi. So obviously, this is something that the White House is very focused on right now.

BLACKWELL: We have got -- Erin, thank you very much. We have got Justice Department Correspondent Evan Perez with us as well. Evan, give us the perspective from where you are, because we've heard from Senator Dianne Feinstein that the concern is once ISIS locks down areas they still have an interest that they have not taken over in Iraq, that the next present danger, I'm paraphrasing here, is the U.S.?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's a big concern about ISIS, because obviously it's an area, it now controls territory in northern Iraq and some parts of Syria. And so the concern from the U.S. national security apparatus is whether or not this is an area where people can come and get training and then perhaps turn against U.S. allies in the region, against European allies, and eventually against the U.S. Remember, there's over 100 Americans that have gone over there to the Syrian war to join militant groups. It's not clear where they are exactly. And that's part of what scares American authorities, Victor and Christi.

PAUL: All right, Evan Perez, thank you.

We're going to take a quick break here as we watch the happenings in Iraq and wait to hear from President Obama. He should step up to the podium shortly. We'll bring it to you live when it happens. Stay close.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Welcome to viewers leer in the U.S., and joining us, our viewers from around the world. A live look at the south lawn of the White House. You see marine one there in the background, President Obama flying off to Andrews Air Force base and then begin his vacation at Martha's Vineyard. But you see the podium there in the foreground. President Obama, first, we're expecting to hear comments on the situation in Iraq.

PAUL: And how much more the U.S. may engage there. We do have with us Erin McPike, Phil Mudd, CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official, and Evan Perez, our justice correspondent listening in as well. But we understand that the president is walking up to the podium now, hopefully going to get some sort of a gauge, we will, of what the two rounds of air strikes have already done to the ISIS militants there in Iraq, and perhaps in the humanitarian efforts as well, the thousands of things that have been dropped on the mountain.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Over the past two days American pilots and crews have served with courage and skill in the skies over Iraq. The first American forces have conducted targeted air strikes against terrorist forces outside the city of Erbil to prevent them from advancing on the city and to protect our American diplomats and military personnel. So far these strikes have successfully destroyed arms and equipment that ISIL terrorists could have used against Erbil.

Meanwhile, Kurdish forces on the ground continue to defend the city, and the United States and the Iraqi government have stepped up our military assistance to Kurdish forces as they wage their fight.

Second -- our humanitarian effort continues to help the men, women and children stranded on Mount Sinjar. American forces so far conducted two successful air drops, delivering thousands of meals and gallons of water to these desperate men, women, and children. And American aircraft are positioned to strike ISIL terrorists around the mountain to help forces in Iraq break the siege and rescue those who are trapped there.

Now, even as we deal with these immediate situations we will continue to pursue a broader strategy in Iraq. We will protect our American citizens in Iraq, whether they're diplomats, civilians or military. If these terrorists threaten our facilities or our personnel, we will take action to protect our people.

We will continue to provide military assistance and advice to the Iraqi government and Kurdish forces as they battle these terrorists so that the terrorists cannot establish a permanent safe haven. We will continue to work with the international community to deal with the growing humanitarian crisis in Iraq.

Even as our attention is focused on preventing an act of genocide in helping the men and women and children on the mountain, countless Iraqis have been driven or fled from their homes, including many Christians. This morning I spoke with Prime Minister Cameron of the United Kingdom and the President Hollande of France. I'm pleased that both leaders expressed their strong support for actions and agreed to join us in providing humanitarian assistance to Iraqi civilians who are suffering so much. Once again America is proud to act alongside our closest friends and allies.

More broadly, the United Nations in Iraq is working urgently to help respond to the needs of Iraqis fleeing under areas under threat. The U.N. Security Council has called on the international community to do everything it can to provide food, water, and shelter. And in my calls with allies and partners around the world, I will continue to urge them to join us in this humanitarian effort.

Finally, we continue to call on Iraqis to come together and form an inclusive government that Iraq needs right now. Vice President Biden has been speaking to Iraqi leaders and our team in Baghdad is in close touch with the Iraqi government. All Iraqi communities are ultimately threatened by these barbaric terrorists and all Iraqi communities need to unite to defend their country.

Just as we are focused on the situation in the north affecting Kurds and the Iraqi minorities, Sunni and Shia in different parts of Iraq have suffered mightily at the hands of ISIL. Once an inclusive government is in place I'm confident it will be easier to mobilize all Iraqis against ISIL and to mobilize greater support from our friends and allies.

Ultimately, only Iraqis can ensure the security and stability of Iraq. And the United States can't do it for them, but we can and will be partners in that effort.

One final thing as we go forward, we'll continue to consult with Congress and coordinate closely with our allies and partners. And as Americans we will continue to show gratitude to our men and women in uniform who are conducting our operations there. When called, they were ready, as they always are. When given their mission, they perform with distinction, as they always do, and when we see them serving with such honor and compassion, defending our fellow citizens and saving the lives of people they've never met, it makes us proud to be Americans, as we always will be.

So with that, let me take a couple questions.

QUESTION: Mr. President?

OBAMA: Yes.

QUESTION: For how long a period of time do you see these air strikes continuing for? And is your goal there to contain ISIS or to destroy it?

OBAMA: I'm not going to give a particular timetable because, as I've said from the start, wherever and whenever U.S. personnel and facilities are threatened, it's my obligation, my responsibility as commander in chief, to make sure they are protected. And we're not moving our embassy any time soon. We're not moving our consulate any time soon. And that means that given the challenging security environment, we're going to maintain vigilance and ensure that our people are safe.

Our initial goal is to not only make sure Americans are protected, but also to deal with this humanitarian situation in Sinjar. We feel confident we can prevent ISIL from going up the mountain and slaughtering the people who are there, but the next step, which is going to be complicated logistically, is how do we give safe passage for people down from the mountain, and where can we ultimately relocate them so that they are safe?

That's the kind of coordination that we need to do internationally. I was very pleased to get the cooperation of both Prime Minister Cameron and President Hollande in addressing some of the immediate needs in terms of air drops and some of the assets and logistical support that they're providing. But there's a broader set of questions that our experts are now engaged in with the United Nations and our allies and partners, and that is how do we potentially create a safe corridor or some other mechanism so that these people can move? That may take some time, because there are varying estimates of how many people are up there, but they're in the thousand, and moving them is not simple in this kind of security environment.

Just to give people a sense, though, of a timetable -- that the most important timetable I'm focused now is the Iraqi government getting formed and finalized, because in the absence of an Iraqi government, it is very hard to get a unified effort by Iraqis against ISIL. We can conduct air strikes, but ultimately there is not going to be an American military solution to this problem. There's going to have to be an Iraqi solution that America and other countries and allies support. And that can't happen effectively until you have a legitimate Iraqi government.

So right now we have a president. We have a speaker. What we don't yet have is a prime minister and a cabinet that is formed that can go ahead and move forward and then start reaching out to all the various groups and factions inside of Iraq, and can give confidence to populations in the Sunni areas that ISIL is not the only game in town. It also, then, allows us to take those Iraqi security forces that are able and functional, and they understand who they're reporting to and what they're fighting for, and what the chain of command is, and it provide as structure in which, you know, better cooperation is taking place between the Kurdish region and Baghdad. So we're going to be pushing very hard to encourage Iraqis to get

their government together. Until we do that, it is going to be hard to get the unity of effort that allows us to not just play defense but also engage in some offense.

QUESTION: Mr. President, the United States has fought long wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with uncertain outcomes. How do you assure the American people we're not getting dragged into another war in Iraq? Have you underestimated the power of ISIS? And finally you said you involved international partners in humanitarian efforts. Is there any thought talking to international partners as far as military actions to prevent the spread of ISIS?

OBAMA: A couple of things I would say. Number one, I've been very clear that we're not going to have U.S. combat troops in Iraq again. And we are going to maintain that, because we should have learned a lesson from our long and immensely costly incursion in Iraq. And that is that our military is so effective, that we can keep a lid on problems wherever we are if we put enough, you know, personnel and resources into it, but it can only last if the people in these countries themselves are able to arrive at the kinds of political accommodations and compromise that any civilized society requires.

And so it would be, I think, a big mistake for us to think that we can on the cheap simply go in, tamp everything down again, restart without some fundamental shift in attitudes among the various Iraqi factions. That's why it is so important to have an Iraqi government on the ground that is taking responsibility that we can help, that we can partner with, that has the capacity to get alliances in the region. And once that's in place, then I think we end up being one of many countries that can work together to deal with the broader crisis that ISIL poses.

What were your other questions? Did we underestimate them? I think that there is no doubt that their advance, their movement over the last several months has been more rapid than the intelligence estimates and I think the expectations of policymakers, both in and out of, outside of Iraq. And part of that is, I think, not a full appreciation of the degree to which the Iraqi security forces, when they're far away from Baghdad, did not have the incentive or the capacity to hold ground against an aggressive adversary.

And so that's one more reason why Iraqi government formation is so important, because there has to be a rebuilding and an understanding of who it is that the Iraqi security forces are reporting to, what they are fighting for. And there has to be some investment by Sunnis in pushing back against ISIL.

I think we're already seeing and we will see even further the degree to which those territories under ISIL control alienate populations because of the barbarity and the brutality with which they operate. But in order to ensure that Sunni populations reject outright these kinds of incursions, they have got to feel they're invested in a broader national government. And right now they don't feel that.

So the upshot is that what we've seen over the last several months indicates the weaknesses in an Iraqi government, but what we've also seen I think is a wake-up call for a lot of Iraqis inside of Baghdad, recognizing that we're going to have to rethink how we do business if we're going to hold our country together. And hopefully that change in attitude supplemented by improved security efforts in which we can assist and help, that can make a difference.

QUESTION: Mr. President, you've just expressed confidence that the Iraqi government can eventually provide safe haven, but you also just described the complications of the Iraqi government and the sophistication of ISIS. So is it possible that what you've described and your ambition there's could take years, not months?

OBAMA: I don't think we're going to solve this problem in weeks, if that's what you mean. I think this is going to take some time. The Iraqi security forces in order to mount an offensive and be able to operate effectively with the support of populations in Sunni areas are going to have to revamp, get resupplied, have a clear strategy. That's all going to be dependent on a government that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi military have confidence in.

We can help in all of those efforts. I think part of what we're able to do right now is to preserve a space for them to do the hard work that's necessary. If they do that, the one thing that I also think has changed is that many of the Sunni countries in the region who have been generally suspicious or wary of the Iraqi government are more likely to join in, in the fight against ISIS, and that can be extremely helpful.

But this is going to be a long-term project. Part of what we've seen is that a minority Sunni population in Iraq as well as a majority Sunni population in Syria, has felt dissatisfied and detached and alienated from their respective governments, and that has been a ripe territory for these jihadists and extremists to operate. And rebuilding governance in those areas and legitimacy for stable, moderate governing in those areas is going to take -- it's going to take time.

Now, there are some immediate concerns that we have to worry about. We have to make sure that ISIL is not engaging in the actions that could cripple a country permanently. There's key infrastructure inside of Iraq that we have to be concerned about. My team has been vigilant even before ISIL went into Mosul about foreign fighters and jihadists gathering in Syria and now in Iraq who might potentially launch attacks outside of the region against western targets and U.S. targets.

So there's going to be a counterterrorism element that we are already preparing for and have been working diligently on for a long time now. There's going to be a military element in protecting our people. But the long-term campaign of changing that environment so that the millions of Sunnis who live in these areas feel connected to and well- served by a national government, that's a long-term process. And that's something that the United States cannot do, only the Iraqi people themselves can do.

We can help, we can advise. But we can't do it for them, and the U.S. military cannot do it for them. And so this goes back to the earlier question about U.S. military involvement. The nature of this problem is not one that a U.S. military can solve. We can assist, and our military obviously can play an extraordinarily important role in bolstering efforts of a Iraqi partner as they make the right steps to keep their country together. But we can't do it for them, OK? Last question.

QUESTION: We spent $800 billion in Iraq. Do you anticipate have to ask Congress for additional funds to support this mission?

OBAMA: Currently we are operating within the budget constraints that we already have, and we'll have to evaluate what happens over time. We already had a lot of assets in the region. We anticipate when we make our preliminary budgets that there may be things that come up requiring us to engage. And right now, at least, I think we are OK. If and when we need additional dollars to make sure that American personnel and American facilities are protected, then we will certainly make that request, but right now that's not our primary concern.

Last question?

QUESTION: Mr. President, do you have any second thoughts about pulling all ground troops out of Iraq, and does it give you pause as a U.S. -- well, is it doing the same thing in Afghanistan?

OBAMA: You know what, what I just find interesting is the degree to which this issue keeps on coming up, as if this was my decision. Under the previous administration we had turned over the country to a sovereign, democratically elected Iraqi government. In order for us to maintain troops in Iraq, we needed the invitation of the Iraqi government and we needed assurances that our personnel would be immune from prosecution if, for example, they were protecting themselves and ended up getting in a firefight with Iraqis, that they wouldn't be held before Iraqi -- an Iraqi judicial system.

And the Iraqi government based on its political considerations, in part because Iraqis were tired of a U.S. occupation, declined to provide us those assurances. And on that basis, we left. We had offered to leave additional troops. So when you hear people say, do you regret, Mr. President, not leaving more troops, that presupposes that I would have overridden this sovereign government that we had turned the keys back over to and said, you know what, you're democratic, you're sovereign, except if I decide that it's good for you to keep 10,000 or 15,000 or 25,000 marines in your country, you don't have a choice, which would have kind of run contrary to the entire argument we were making about turning over the country back over to Iraqis, an argument not just made by me but made by the previous administration.

So let's just be clear. The reason we did not have a follow-on force in Iraq was because the Iraqis were, a majority of Iraqis did not want U.S. troops there, and politically they could not pass the kind of laws that would be required to protect our troops in Iraq.

Having said all that, if, in fact, the Iraqi government behaved the way it did over the last five, six years, where it failed to pass legislation that would reincorporate Sunnis and give them a sense of ownership, if it had targeted certain Sunni leaders and jailed them, if it had alienated some of the Sunni tribes that we had brought back in during the so-called awakening that helped us turn the tide in 2006, if they'd had done all of those things and we had had troops there, the country wouldn't be holding together, either. The only difference would be we'd have a bunch of troops on the ground that would be vulnerable.

And however many troops we had, we would have to now be reinforcing, I'd have to be protecting them and we'd have a much bigger job, and probably we would end up having to go up again in terms of the number of ground troops to make sure that those forces were not vulnerable.

So that entire analysis is bogus and is wrong. But it gets frequently peddled around here by folks who oftentimes are trying to defend previous policies that they themselves made.

Going forward with respect to Afghanistan, we are leaving a follow-on force there. I think the lesson for Afghanistan is not the fact that we've got a follow-on force that will be capable of training and supporting Afghan security efforts. I think the real lesson in Afghanistan is that if factions in a country after a long period of civil war do not find a way to come up way political accommodation, if they take maximalist positions and their attitude is I want 100 percent of what I want, and the other side gets nothing, then the center doesn't hold.

And the good news is, is that in part thanks to the excellent work of John Kerry and others, we now are seeing the two candidates in the recent presidential election start coming together, and agreeing not only to move forward on the audit to be able to finally certify a winner in the election, but also the kinds of political accommodations that are required to keep democracy moving. So that's the lesson I think for Afghanistan coming out of Iraq is if you want this thing to work, then, whether it's, you know, different ethnicities, different religions, different regions, they've got to accommodate each other. Otherwise you start tipping back into old patterns of violence. And it doesn't matter how many U.S. troops are there. If that happens, you end up having a mess. All right, thanks a lot, guys.

PAUL: All right, President Obama speaking for almost 25 minutes there, really putting the onus still on Iraq for the situation that's going on there, saying that the government has to be formed. They have to secure their forces, and urging Sunnis to reject insurgents like ISIS who are coming in. Want to go to senior international correspondent Ivan Watson with us as well as Phil Mudd, a CNN counterterrorism analyst. Phil, first to you, what stood out to you in what the president had to say?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think the conversation about the duration of this operation. If you look at these kinds of extremist insurgencies around the world, we've got 20-plus years of watching them in places like as far afield as the southern Philippines, Indonesia, Yemen, Somalia, Algeria. We're talking about fairly limited operations now to protect civilians and to protect Kurdistan.

Groups like this, and remember, forget about Iraq. This group has been embedded across the border in in Syria for several years now, take years to destroy. So people are talking about what happened last night, what happens today, can we save a few thousand civilians? The president is starting to draw a picture that says we might have an engagement here based on history that lasts for months or years.

BLACKWELL: Let's go now to Ivan Watson. Ivan, the president, and I think the word that stood out to me was the "initial goal," which of course, begs the question of mission creep, but the initial goal here is to protect the Americans there and these religious minorities. He also talked about that conversation with British Prime Minister Cameron and President Hollande of France. Now there's going to be additional humanitarian resources. No comment though on military support to take out ISIS.

WATSON: What I found interesting, Victor is that he's clearly trying to offer balance here. Mentioning that he would consider using force to protect U.S. personnel in Baghdad and also recognizing that in central and southern Iraq that the Shiite communities have also suffered at the hands of the group that calls itself the Islamic State or ISIL ISIS, that he had -- because there have already come accusations from Iraqi Shia saying, hey, you're coming to the aid of the Kurds with these air strikes. What about us in the center and the south of the country? We need help, too.

So there's a very five balancing act, very important that he put so much emphasis on forming some kind of a unity government in Iraq, recognizing that U.S. force on the ground alone cannot solve this problem, but that Iraqis have to unite.

It was not a resounding vote of confidence for the Iraqi prime minister Nouri al Maliki, who has been criticized from all different fronts of pursuing a sectarian policy that benefited the Shia majority here, but, as Obama said, left the Sunni Arab minority disaffected, and thus left a ripe grounds for the ISIS militants to move in and take advantage of those angry people. I'm hearing that from Kurdish officials here, that ISIS alone with foreign fighters who have come from Syria and other Arab countries, they alone aren't leading this military offensive, that a number of Arab tribesmen have joined alongside them.

President Obama making it very clear that there needs to be a strong effort from the government in Baghdad, from Iraqis, to woo these disaffected Sunni Arabs away from the hardline Islamist legions of ISIS and back towards some kind of an Iraqi government. Otherwise, what the U.S. is doing right now is just providing a little bit of space for the Baghdad government and from the Kurds to protect their territory from the ISIS offensive.

PAUL: Philip, you talked real quickly about the broader picture with ISIS. What do you think if you look ahead they're going to need from the U.S.? How far is this go for the U.S.? Are air strikes really going to be enough in this immediate concern? MUDD: I think this conversation about where the Sunni tribes end up

is the real critical conversation. It's not about American military intervention. That's a very sort of Washington or U.S.-centric optic on this problem.

If you look again at these problems around the world, what you have here is a choice for a Sunni tribesman between allying with ISIS or allying with a Shia political leader, Nouri al Maliki, who is not viewed at representing Sunni interests. So if you're sitting in some village in Anbar province in western Iraq, you're saying what am I supposed to do? We have a government that is not interested in my needs and we have people who come in who will behead me if I don't affiliate with them. That's why the president rightly is so focused on saying, I thought a little bit too politely, look, if Nouri al Maliki can't figure how to organize a government, regardless what we do with 500 pound bombs, this problem is not going to be resolved because Sunnis are going to say I don't have a stake in this government, so I'm not going to fight these guys.

BLACKWELL: But isn't that exactly what we heard from the other side when Sunnis were in control of the government? My question here, essentially is there one central leader? We know there's a new speaker of parliament. We know there's a new president there. But is there any leader, can there possibly be a leader that makes all sides happy and will feel included in this new government?