Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

United States Launches Strikes Against ISIS

Aired August 09, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All right. Here we go on this Saturday. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York for you.

Let's begin in Iraq where the U.S. military made a second emergency airdrop today delivering precious food and water to thousands of terrified people trapped on this mountaintop in northern Iraq.

We have this video, and you can now finally see the people, the men, the women, the children, all these families poured in on top of this mountain stranded. It's called Mt. Sinjar. These are the members of Iraqis' Yazidi religious sect. Dozens have already died from dehydration and exposure. And when you think about the climate in this part of the world at this time of year, I mean, it could not be more hot. We're hearing temperatures on this mountaintop can reach a scorching 122 degrees.

As for this terrorist group, ISIS, they are circling below this mountain. They are ready to kill anyone who tries to flee, anyone who tries to descend. Now earlier today, we did hear from the president, President Barack Obama said that those U.S. air strikes had demolished some ISIS weapons and artillery units that had been advancing toward the regional capital of Erbil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So far these strikes have successfully destroyed arms and equipment that ISIL terrorists could have used against Erbil. Meanwhile, Kurdish forces on the ground continue to defend the city and the United States and the Iraqi government have stepped up our military assistance to Kurdish forces as they wage their fight.

Second, our humanitarian effort continues to help the men, women, and children stranded on Mt. Sinjar. American force have so far conducted two successful airdrops, delivering thousands of meals and gallons of water to these desperate men, women, and children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The president speaking there in front of Marine One before heading out of town. And today, we are covering every single angle of U.S. efforts in Iraq for you, so let's take you straight to Iraq to Erbil.

Our senior international correspondent Ivan Watson joins me live. And also standing by for me in Washington is justice reporter Evan Perez.

But first, Ivan, to you right there. I mean, you have had just an incredible viewpoint in perspective talking to these families who are so incredibly desperate, including seeing a 40-day-old baby in a church without a home. Are Kurds; -- are people of Iraq, breathing a sigh of relief now that the air strikes have fallen?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, because the Kurds believe the air strikes have forced the ISIS militants to at the very least take a pause, at the very least try to avoid the missiles and bombs that have been falling from the sky and landing on some of their positions, and that has given the Kurds some time to regroup because there were entire Peshmarga units that basically had been melted away with people running into the mountains, and that's part of what led to the withdraw from a number of towns and villages. And the subsequent flight of hundreds of thousands of people, many of them Iraqi Christian, members of these other ethnic and religious minorities, the Yazidis, Shi'a and that is what has triggered a very panicked couple of days in Kurdistan -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's talk, Ivan, about the people we've been seeing in some of these picture, these people you have been spending time with, family hiding out in churches and construction sites and the town from which you're joining me. Who are they? How are they dealing with this?

WATSON: Well, these are modest people, in some cases farmers or construction workers or university students. They're not living in the big cities of Iraq. They're living in small towns and villages, and they saw a disturbing thing happen, which was the Kurdish- Peshmarga militias kind of suddenly picking up and leaving abandoning their communities and then knowing that the ISIS militants would move the soon after, they packed their families up, their children, a few bit of clothes or mattresses into whatever vehicles they could find and they ran.

And I think everybody I talked to, none of them had any confidence that they would be able to go home. Everybody I talked to here in Erbil, they all packed up and fled Wednesday night, some of them walking throughout the night to make it here. And they are taking shelter in any kind of structure they can find. And in a lot of cases that's open, unfinished construction sites, future office buildings that are not providing very much shelter from the terrible August heat. It's not nice to see this many people made homeless in such a short period of time and so desperate, so happy to be away from these ISIS militants that they're quite literally sleeping on raw concrete with their children in the heat.

BALDWIN: We see them doing exactly that in those pictures.

Ivan Watson with the stories of the people from northern Iraq. Ivan, thank you so much.

Again, as we heard from President Barack Obama this morning, he was clear, he didn't give any timetable, any specifics for U.S. military air strikes in Iraq. The president added improving Iraq's security situation is going to be, quoting him, a long-term project.

So let's go to justice correspondent Evan Perez with more on what the president said this morning because, Evan, it was pretty clear and perhaps he was intentionally nebulous to sort of say protracted campaign, long term, no specifics.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. He's trying to do two things. He wants to put pressure on the Iraqi government. He's trying to put pressure on them to find a way to form an inclusive government to bring back the Sunni tribes that are now supporting ISIS in the north of the country and to make them part of the Iraqi government. So that's one part of what he's doing.

He's also trying to give reassurance to the Kurds to make sure they understand the U.S. is going to do what it can to prevent the ISIS terrorists from getting to Erbil, their capital, and slaughtering these people up on the mountaintop -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Looking at the president and his family getting off marine one heading t vacation on Martha's Vineyard today, on the phone, though, in route talking to German chancellor Angela Merkel. Clearly that the situation in Iraq is not far from mind. But let's jog back a couple days and talk about that limo ride between chairman of the Joint Chiefs Martin Dempsey and President Obama without defense secretary Hagel there simply because he is not in Washington. That was a pretty influential moment for the joint chiefs martin Dempsey.

PEREZ: That's right. I mean, Secretary Hagel is traveling. He was in Australia. I believe he's in India today. This is a big moment for General Dempsey because basically what you see the president roll out in the last couple days is something that General Dempsey had a lot of influenced to design, essentially. And what we have is a situation where the president's been very reluctant to do this intervention in part because frankly any air strikes the U.S. carries out encourages Maliki, the Maliki government, to delay in what it really need to do. So right now what you see is they're trying to limit what the air strikes are going to do to try to, again, put pressure on Maliki.

BALDWIN: What about, Evan, just overall objectives from the administration? You know, we know about the 40 Americans in Erbil. Is it protecting that U.S. consulate? Is it broader than that in stopping the siege on the Sinjar mountain? Is it broader than that in Baghdad, protecting the Americans at the embassy there?

PEREZ: Well, if you listen to the president, I think it is broader than just protecting Erbil and the civilians that are stuck on that mountaintop. It is also about protecting the capital, because he said we're not going to move our embassy, not going to move our consulate from Erbil. So he basically is suggesting that, a, this is going to be a long-term campaign to give Iraqis time to form the government, to start reformatting their military, which can then take the fight to is, and also, he said, big key here is to get the regional allies, the Sunni government around the -- in that region to help fight is. That's a big, big task, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Evan Perez, we thank you so much for your take and interpretation of what's going on in Washington. Appreciate that.

Elsewhere in the Mideast, an uneasy calm hangs over both side of the Israeli-Gaza border at this hour. There isn't a complete lull in fighting. But right now it appears the Israelis and Palestinian militants are scaling back on their offensives.

Earlier in Gaza, three bodies were found under the ruins of a mosque. According to reports, one of them was a senior Hamas commander. And Israel says two others were killed a on a motorcycle. Those were militants. A three-day truce ended early on Friday both sides blaming the other for the breakdown. Since then, the Israeli military says its warplanes have hit 70 militant targets. Gaza militants are continuing to fight as well, let's be clear, and the Israeli defense forces say dozens of rockets have landed in Israel since the cease- fire.

As far as politics go here, a Palestinian delegation is still in Cairo talking, negotiating there with Egyptian officials who are playing the role of the mediator here in these peace talks. The Israelis insist they will not negotiate under fire.

And as this conflict enters its second month now, more than 1,900 Palestinians have been killed, most of them civilians, 64 soldiers and three civilians have been killed on the Israeli side.

Ahead here on CNN, did the U.S. miss its best chance to destroy is? A lot of people asking is it too late to knock them out now, to destroy them? We'll talk to two military experts ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN, Brooke Baldwin.

Now that the United States is striking ISIS in Iraq, a lot of people are asking is this strategy going to work. Moments ago we learned that U.S. air strikes in northeastern Mosul killed at least 16 ISIS militants. This is just what we're getting now from health and civil defense officials there in Iraq.

Earlier today, we saw the president who said this problem in Iraq will not likely be solved in a matter of weeks. But he also reiterated that no U.S. combat troops will join the fight. It's a cautious policy that's come under fire from some Republicans as well as foreign policy and military experts and some Democrats as well, and it's not the first time the administration has been criticized for lacking a strategic vision for countering is.

Joining me to discuss, CNN military analyst colonel Rick Francona with me here in New York, and in Orlando, retired army lieutenant general and former commanding general for U.S. army Europe and Seventh army Mark Hertling.

So gentlemen, welcome. We will get to you, general, in a moment. But first colonel, when we talk about strategy, and we cannot crawl into president Barack Obama's head, but when you heard him this morning and we know thus far what the U.S. military has done as far as targeted air strikes on specific, you know, targets within ISIS in Iraq, what do you think he's doing?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: He's being very cautious. He's initially putting the air where he believes he needs it and that's to defend Erbil. And that's where we have a U.S. consulate, and therefore, where the joint operations the Iraqi military so, we have some of the advisers up there. And he has given authorization to defend that. That's what he's doing first.

However, if he's trying to blunt the ISIS offensive, that won't do it. What I think we need to do is stop ISIS where they are to give the Iraqis time to get their defenses together, because Iraqi army right now is not capable of conducting operations against is.

BALDWIN: Nor are the Kurds.

FRANCONA: Well, the Kurds are capable man for man, but they're outgunned and out mass right now.

BALDWIN: General, to you on the point of the president's strategy, I just want to hear your take too. And also I think part of how you're seeing this is this is the president trying to get the Iraqis involved, right? U.S. will only do so much. It's leveraging assistance from the Iraqis.

LT. COL. MARK HERTLING (RET.), FORMER COMMANDING GENERAL FOR U.S. ARMY EUROPE AND SEVENTH ARMY: That's a great word to you use, Brooke. Leveraging. That's exactly what he's doing. He is using some influence to try and say, hey, we are not going to do this for you. We've done too much for you already. You have got to step up and to some things on your own.

I think it's also interesting I'll point out, too, the central command commander, General Lloyd Austin, used to be the final commander in Iraq before we left that area. So General Austin knows Mr. Maliki very well, and I think the president's strategy is actually a very good one. He is coming under a lot of pressure from our Congress, but I think he knows exactly what he's doing. He's leveraging the opportunity to push the Iraqi parliament and the Iraqi government to do the right things and to eliminate the sectarianism, which has been so prevalent over the last several years.

BALDWIN: So he's using it as leverage. But, Colonel, to your point, you don't necessarily think Iraqis will respond the way President Obama hopes they will.

FRANCONA: I think they will in time, but the problem is time is not on our side right now. You know, as you watch ISIS roll down the Tigris valley, you see them in the Euphrates valley. Today, they were going after the Haditha dam. They've already got the Mosul dam. I hope the strategy works. I just wonder if we're facing a clock here that's ticking quite quickly.

BALDWIN: Well, a lot of people pointing out, criticizing the president, saying the clock was ticking a heck of a long time ago.

And general, on that point, a lot of people questioning why now, why not before, you know, a lot of people have been slaughtered in months previous. Fallujah fell back in January. So, do you think the president would have acted this aggressively if a humanitarian disaster, his word genocide, the slaughters of one specific group of people, in this case the Yazidis, had not been happening?

HERTLING: Well, I don't think he would have. But certainly again, Brooke, about a month ago you remember we sent a lot of advisers in to do the initial observation and the assessment. That gave him the opportunity to finally get to the side piece of what Rick knows is the loop -- the observe, assess, decide, and then act. Well, I think the decide piece was pushed forward by the fact that the humanitarian crisis with the Yazidis and he had to act quickly, probably not on his timetable.

But going back to what you just about the time. There's an interesting expression my Iraqi brothers used to tell me all the time which was, hey, you all have the watch but we have the time.

BALDWIN: What do you mean by that?

HERTLING: Well, what they were basically saying, we would always say, hey, it's time to get moving, you really have to do something, and they would give us the "in Shallah," God willing we'll do it tomorrow, and they would remind us that they were centuries old.

Well, I think the president is pushing them to act now. He's saying, OK, you may have the time but you don't have a whole lot more time now with ISIS bearing down so you better get moving. And I think that pressure tactics may work. It won't be quick, though, a the president said right before he boarded his helicopter today.

BALDWIN: What do you think?

FRANCONA: I hope we have the time. The general makes a great point and, you know, we always talk about time and space. I just hope that we can give the Iraqi army time and space they need. Now, we saw the Iraqi pilots up there with the Yazidis, you know, gutsy moves up there.

BALDWIN: Making rescues.

FRANCONA: Yes, so they are involved. Let's just see if they can get it together in time before we have to put even more airpower into this.

BALDWIN: So it seems to me from what I've read this morning that, you know, the Kurds in talking to Ivan Watson, our correspondent in Erbil, a lot of the Kurds are saying this is great. We knee this so desperately. But a lot of Iraqis at least closer to the capital, you know, have been saying this is definitely too late. And they're also pointing out, you know, Mr. President, is this more about your interests in Iraq or is this really about us? General?

HERTLING: Well, I think the fact that this could happen in the Kurdish region and in fact it happened first in Erbil versus Baghdad, I actually think that's to our advantage. The Kurds are an overlooked population, there an overlooked sect within Iraq, and they are a very strong and very patriotic element within the country. Very nationalistic. And I think they're fighters and their army are very strong and they do provide very good security for the Kurdish region.

So I think it was actually serendipitous that our first action was outside of Erbil. And it's proven, hey, we will help, but you've got to do some things on your own too. And I think this blunting of ISIS outside of Erbil will make for a good initial start to the strategy to allow the Kurdish army, the Peshmarga, to get resupplied and go after ISIS. And I think they'll do that. And will also be looking forward toward going out and opening up that potential corridor to Mt. Sinjar.

BALDWIN: Twenty second.

FRANCONA: Twenty second. I've been reading some of the Iraqi army press, and a lot of them are saying why did it take a threat to the Kurds for you to get involved?

BALDWIN: That's exactly what I'm telling as well.

Colonel and General, we thank you both. We'll be talking on TV, I know, in the future very shortly. I appreciate both of you.

Before last week, many of us had never heard of the Yazidis. And today, we are all worried about their fate. So in a moment I'll talk with a guest about how they're surviving on that mountain in Iraq. He has a pretty stunning perspective having been with them, spoken with them, seen their plight first hand. But first who are they and what do the Yazidis believe? Here's some background.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Taking you back to our coverage out of Iraq, the situation becoming increasingly dire by the day.

Just imagine these people, tens of thousands of people with children including no food, no water as they pass the hours in the scorching summer heat. There is no escape for these 40,000 desperate people hiding out atop the mountains of northwestern Iraq from the killers surrounding them on the ground below.

ISIS fires overran the northern Iraqi city of Sinjar over last weekend, forcing this group, massive group of Yazidis to run from their homes into the surrounding mountains for fear of their lives. Remember basically the choice they're given by these ISIS militant, convert to Islam or be killed, so they have fled. Many of them didn't make it, prompting concerns of a potential genocide.

So joining me to discuss this dire situation especially atop that mountain is Marzio Babille. He is the UNICEF representative for Iraq.

So Marzio, nice to talk to you again.

MARZIO BABILLE, UNICEF REPRESENTATIVE TO IRAQ: Thank you. BALDWIN: You have been to the Sinjar district. You have witnessed

firsthand what is happening to these people. Can you just begin telling me just about the children you've seen?

BABILLE: Yes. (INAUDIBLE). The children of Iraq want to be soccer players, doctors. They are surrounded by a stone desert. There's no water, food, or vegetation for kilometers. This is actually the point. Providing water and assistance is extremely problematic. (INAUDIBLE). Even now the airdrops aren't reaching part of the population. The dispersion of population is around 25 kilometers. This is of mountain ridge and therefore small hamlets, groups of families in the caves or crevices.

BALDWIN: Marzio, let me just stop you there. I want to hear exactly what you're saying but I'm having a tough time hearing you with the connection. We'll take a quick break, folks. Stay with me. We have to hear from Marzio because he's seen and talked to these people first hand. We will get you on the phone. Quick break. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. Let's try this again with Marzio Bebille. He is the UNICEF representative for Iraq who's been with these Yazidis. Joining me now on the phone so we can be crystal clear because it is so important to help explain to our viewers, the Americans the situation especially Marzio. Can you just begin with the children? How dire is this for them?

BABILLE: Well, the children in Sinjar that I met at the end of June when the first corridor was opened by UNICEF were already displaced and particularly poor. They have central aspirations. They want to be soccer players, medical doctors or simply happy. They fled under the brutality of these offensives of (INAUDIBLE) and sought refuge with their families in the Sinjar mountains, a very long-lasting ridge of mountains, 25 kilometers location north toward the border with Syria.

We need to consider that these children have no food, water, or even clothing to be protected given the characteristic of the terrain. These mountaintops are surrounded by stone desert. There is no vegetation. With the heat and the high temperature we have these days, dehydration has cawed unfortunately more than 60 children dying unnecessarily.

BALDWIN: And many of those children who are dying atop that mountain are being buried in shallow graves because of the terrain, because of the rocky terrain. That's what their mothers and fathers are having to do as they need the food and the water and the medical supplies.

Can you just talk to me, Marzio, about the decisions that these families are having to make whether it's stay home and force death by ISIS or leave and take their chances?

BABILLE: Yes. This is exactly true. The medical supplies, food and water, fortunately enough, started arriving into some hamlets, particularly in the eastern part of the mountain ridge after the more or increased precision (ph) of airdropping done by United States air force, which is something that actually the authorities of the Kurds in the autonomous region appreciate very much.

This is hopeful and this is actually a reason to be pretty optimistic for small communities who can be reached. But unfortunately, we have a bigger problem. We are running out of time for thousands of them who can obviously not be reached by these airdrops that are limited in number.

And as I already said the United Nations but particularly UNICEF is appealing the international opinion to push for the opening and the securing of humanitarian corridor over land. We have a strategic plan. We are ready with the supplies, commodities, and medical care. The government of Kurdistan already committed medical teams. We need a corridor to take out how many thousands of people we can that will join the already 200,000 who are actually safe in northern Kurdistan.

BALDWIN: You talk about a safe corridor, but also, Marzio, and we are just looking at pictures atop one of these helicopters, some of these people, as we talked yesterday on TV, some of them are being rescued, which is a first that we've heard, because when we picture this mountain and all these 40,000 people atop, you picture the ISIS militants, you know, at the bottom. And how is it that they're being rescued? Who's doing the rescuing?

BABILLE: The rescue teams are organized by Iraqi federal air force helicopters. These helicopters are increasingly precise in landing. You have to imagine that landing on a very restricted space or pad on mountains is not particularly easy. And they are taking out the most needy people who have been already selected by their own communities. This means particularly sick people, exhausted people, children, or women. But, again, the issue is that you cannot take out by air flight any more than hundred people, maybe 150 per day given the limited range and also limited air assets that are used.

BALDWIN: Right. The rescues are limited. Even the humanitarian aid drops, the food and water and medical supplies. That only can last these people for a finite amount of dais.

Marzio Babille with UNICEF, thanks for the work you're doing and let's stay in contact as hopefully the situation for these people will improve. Appreciate you.

BABILLE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We know ISIS of course poses a huge threat to Iraq. Could these militants pose just as big a threat to the west, to Europe, to the United States? Could U.S. air strikes lead to a new terrifying enemy just as dangerous as Al Qaeda? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just in to us here at CNN, U.S. air strikes between the Iraqi cities of Erbil and Mosul have now killed 16 ISIS militants. At least that is according to health and civil defense officials there. President Barack Obama, we saw him this morning saying that U.S. air

strikes have successfully destroyed arms and equipment of ISIS militants in northern Iraq, and he added though, that it will be up to Iraq to unite and stop this Islamic militant group.

But could these air strikes have unintended consequences for west? Let me bring in CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank who penned an opinion piece on precisely that and CNN national security analyst and CIA operative Bob Baer.

Gentlemen, appreciate you coming in on a Saturday.

And Paul Cruickshank, just because you wrote this piece -- I mean, you outlined it pretty specifically, but let me just begin with generally here with the U.S. going in with this air strike campaign. I know ISIS has really been specific to the Iraq-Syria region. But might this mean retaliation in Europe or the U.S.?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: It could mean that. It could mean that ISIS could unleash attacks in Europe or even the United States. They are actually quite well positioned to do that. They have got training camps. They have got tens of millions of dollars. They've also got up to about a thousand European recruits in their ranks and also dozens of Americans. And so, the concern is that they could train some of these people and send them back to Europe or even the United States to carry out attacks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Bob Baer, specifically in the United States, what are your sources telling you about ISIS?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it's true that they are in a position to hit us either in Europe, places in the Middle East. The law enforcement sources have been telling me for a long time, for months that ISIS is here within U.S. quarters. There is specific traced ISIS members that have come across the Mexican border. They're not of course U.S. passport holders but they're in this country. They came under false identities. And they believe they're capable of carrying out terrorism attacks inside this country.

BALDWIN: Are they here for precisely that reason?

BAER: That's what they believe. They said the Mexican border, yes, the children are coming across, but their major concern is the terrorists are coming back to make attacks here. And I asked for specifics. And of course, I don't work for the governments, they couldn't tell me, and they just went silent.

BALDWIN: Wow. That is the first I heard of that.

Paul, let me just ask you, off of your opinion piece. You know, you lay out these three different ways ISIS could retaliate. And the third piece you mentioned lone wolves and you use the Boston bombing a perfect example of extremists not having to be trained going overseas, learning how to make a bomb on the internet, and that is one of your fears. CRUICKSHANK: Well, that is a real fear. Is has a lot of supporters

in the west particularly in Europe, and there's concern they could lash out with some sort of lone Wolf attack back in Europe or even the United States.

ISIS supporters at the moment have put out a twitter campaign calling for exactly this, calling for attacks against the United States, attacks against Europe. But from a European perspective there's a lot of concern because hundreds of fighters have come back to Europe, they've been fighting in Syria and Iraq and many of them actually were fighting with ISIS.

And back in May we saw an attack on a Jewish museum in Brussels and that was carried out by a former ISIS member, a French Algerian militant who spent a year in Syria and come back to Europe. And the concern is we could see more of these attacks now triggered by these U.S. strikes against ISIS and Iraq.

BALDWIN: What about more imminently, Bob Baer, in country, in Iraq, when we wonder about this about the first level of retaliation among these ISIS militants? We know that they have seized this hydroelectric dam in Mosul. We have talked to you and I have talked on TV before where you really were fearful that potentially that could be used as really a weapon of mass destruction, right, to flood the Tigris, to flood people south potentially as far as Baghdad. Do you still believe that's a possibility?

BAER: Brooke, I do. Here's the way it would work. Saddam in the mid '90s built military canals along the Tigris that spread out from the Mosul dam. And the purpose of that was to specifically go after an invasion in the south and the Shia in particular. ISIS is capable, they have engineers on the dam today, of doing that very thing. And I think if you put their back against the corner, they very well could do this. I don't know of specific plans, but that's certainly a fear in Iraq today.

BALDWIN: I think the biggest headline out of this conversation came from you, Bob Baer, about your sources, your law enforcement sources saying ISIS is in the U.S., coming over the Mexican border. We'll have to talk about that further. And Paul Cruickshank, I know we're talking to you next hour. I really want to walk through this opinion piece you wrote for us here at CNN.

Gentlemen, thank you both for now. I appreciate it.

The fight in Iraq did not stop President Obama from hopping on Marine One starting his vacation with his family. His aides say he can do his job from everywhere. He's the president. How true is that? If it is, why is he interrupting his vacation to head back to the White House in just a couple days? We'll discuss that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: President Obama is now officially on vacation at Martha's Vineyard for a two-week summer vacation with the first family. But before he left this morning, he addressed the U.S. air strikes with Iraq. President Obama says U.S. forces are successfully destroying arms and equipment belonging to ISIS militants. But he refused to give a timetable. He didn't give specifics here as far as the air strike campaign or the humanitarian aid drops go. The president does plans to break up his vacation with the two day stop back in Washington midway through his trip.

So joining me now to talk about all things politics and the president and optics, let's bring in CNN's political commentator and Republican consultant, Margaret Hoover and Princeton historian Julian Zelizer. Nice to see both of you.

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Nice to be here.

BALDWIN: Let's begin with this video just in to CNN. Roll tape of the president on the golf course, here he is. So here you have the visual, right, the optics of the president playing golf. This is certainly not the first time. I can already here -- see the tweets and hear the criticism for so many people thinking, are you kidding me, even with the humanitarian crisis is going in Iraq? The president on the first tee. Your take Margaret Hoover?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look. You would think there would be better staffing, certainly. I mean, we all know that president take vacations and president's take vacations and they can operate and run the free world from their vacations. He's never actually on vacation. He's a serious guy. He's got all of his advisers with him and everybody is a phone call away. He's still running the country. He is still running the free world.

BALDWIN: Right.

HOOVER: The problem is to go out and start it, to have cameras rolling on you, from the first tee on Martha's Vineyard optically doesn't suggest the seriousness of what this humanitarian endeavor calls for from the president of the United States.

BALDWIN: Do you agree?

ZELIZER: Yes. I mean, there are certain issues you have to be in Washington for. If you're dealing with members of Congress and trying to lobby them. But other than that, you can be president on vacation. And this is an issue that always emerges, but it looks bad. So his staff and he have to think about how the next few days take place.

BALDWIN: OK. What about just the timing here, the president, listen, it's tough to be a president, no matter which political party to which you are affiliated. You're always going to be criticized for what you do, what you don't. But here he is. He's being criticized for why now or too little too late, depending on who you ask. And then it is also that the criticism of not doing enough, right? Senators Graham and McCain saying this is not enough. You need to bring the fight to the Islamic state?

ZELIZER: Well, that's predictable criticism.

BALDWIN: Is it fair? ZELIZER: His supporters will say it's not fair. They will say, a, he

inherited this mess, and he's trying to do the best thing possible. And b, ultimately this is going to require a political solution within Iraq, that's the gain to try to get the Sunnis to buy into --

BALDWIN: You're shaking your head.

HOOVER: Well, it requires a security situation as well. I mean, the Iraqi and army simply isn't strong enough and the Kurds aren't strong enough to push back on ISIS. The problem is the political situation and political win is simply off the table right now. There needs to be a military defeat of ISIS. And it's in American national security interests, American national interest to make sure that we have a secure and stable Iraq.

There is not a secure and stable Iraq right now. And we are the only people that can help Iraq become stable so that you can have a political solution. So these pinprick strikes seem to be more of a tactic rather than a comprehensive strategy. That's what we've basically been hearing all day from the experts, from the military authorities.

BALDWIN: Hoping to get the Iraqis involved saying, listen, we can only do so much. We're trying to help you. But listen, the president is saying, the Americans should not be solving Iraqi problems? Iraqi should be solving Iraqi problems.

HOOVER: But it impacts American security.

BALDWIN: Right.

HOOVER: And that --

BALDWIN: Baghdad, Erbil. I know.

HOOVER: So this is the issue. I mean, I think the president should be acting, I'm glad he's acting. I think he should do more. I think he needs to destroy ISIS. That is on America.

ZELIZER: He also faces a difficult political situation, in that public support is --

BALDWIN: Who wants anything more than limited --

ZELIZER: Congress is all over the map including Republicans, in terms of how this should be handled. So there's not clarity within American politics including within the Republican Party.

BALDWIN: Does not clear in the politics?

Hold on. Let me hit pause on this conversation because I do want to, for all of you, we'll talk in just a minute. But back in January, the president spoke specifically about ISIS. And in doing so, he might have underestimated them, at least with this quote when he was talking to the New Yorker. We'll have this for you and get the tape from both the professor and from Margaret Hoover in just a minute. Hard not to take ISIS seriously when you see pictures like this. We'll get that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: ISIS has already taken 17 towns and villages in Iraq during its brutal rampage and has slaughtered and brutalized, really, untold number of civilians. But back in January, President Obama insinuated that Sunni extremists were an amateur terror group. This is what he said to a New Yorker reporter. Let me quote the president.

He said this. "If a JV team puts on Lakers uniforms, it doesn't make them Kobe Bryant. I think there's a distinction between the capacity and reach of a bin Laden a network that is actively planning major terrorist plots against the homeland versus jihadists who are engaged in various local power struggles and disputes."

They are back with me, Republican consultant Margaret Hoover and Princeton historian Julian Zelizer.

So Julian, did he underestimate ISIS?

ZELIZER: Yes. I mean, there were many people within the Democratic Party, within the state department, including Hillary Clinton who are more fearful of this in calling for more aggressive action. And part of it is underestimating, part of it is the president who, for many reasons feels constrained about what to do, including the fact that now this is in Iraq, where he has promised since 2008 --

BALDWIN: But it ran on.

ZELIZER: But you know, A quote like that can be pretty devastating as this expands. So that's part of the response now that you're seeing, but there's a question how effective this will be.

BALDWIN: And to your point, and we keep him in home. When you look at the polls, you talk to Americans. No one wants anything more. We don't want an extended -- the U.S. doesn't want mission. But you say foreign policy cannot be dictated by one American thing.

HOOVER: Well, you certainly can't poll test what to do for foreign policy. If you're the leader of the free world, you're the president of the United States, your job is the security of American citizenship and American homeland. That cannot pull in. And you have to do what's right in order to secure the homeland. And then you have to engage the American people and convince them of the correctness or the rightness of the policies you're doing. You enroll them in that vision.

BALDWIN: So do you think the president explained that, though. And also, Secretary Kerry using the word genocide?

HOOVER: Certainly, they made -- yes, that is exactly right. So they did that. They said, here's why we're going. This is why we're doing it. They didn't poll test it first, or maybe they did, and they're going to poll test it afterwards. And then, they will see if the, I guess, the efficacy or the successfulness of their ability to lead the American people or get the American people's buy-in with this decision. But I mean, the issue is, President Obama has been really has his hands tied because of his own views about Iraq that we never should have been there in the first place. And has, I think, the naive about the situation he inherited in Iraq and in many ways, his choices had made it weaker and has then weaken the United States as division in the Middle East.

ZELIZER: I mean, there is the poll testing, but there is also the need to build the sustainable coalition in Congress. Ultimately, this won't go in you don't have that. I don't think it's simply the polls of American citizens, how does that then play out on Capitol Hill, where I really think the coalition for doing anything more is incredibly fragile. And if you go in with that, it could be a huge problem for the military, and overall for strategy in two years from now.

BALDWIN: Julian Zelizer, Margaret Hoover, thank you both.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.