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Outrage Over Teen's Shooting Death; Dangerous Aid Drops in Iraq

Aired August 11, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And so you specifically feature this place in California called Save a Warrior, where you found these veterans. Tell me about that.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

I think we wanted to take a look at something outside of the VA. There are a million people who could sit here and tell you all of the problems of the VA. They have been well-documented and clearly.

BALDWIN: We have been doing that. Yes.

O'BRIEN: So what seems to be working?

We found this program called Save a Warrior, which takes about 10 to twelve veterans roughly once a month and brings them in. And for five-and-a-half days, they go through equine therapy. They teach them transcendental medication. They do a ropes course, and they do lots of sort of therapy around their issues.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: They make them realize that for many who had issues before they went off to war, that some cases they're a little more susceptible to post-traumatic stress.

And so we follow these two guys who you saw there in the piece before they go and then through their five-and-a-half days, which seems so incredibly short, right?

BALDWIN: Short.

O'BRIEN: And the incredible transformation that happens on the other end.

I asked Jake Clark, who started the program, how is this a cure? Five-and-a-half days, that seems completely insane. And he said, listen, it's not a cure. It's a way to show another path. If you're going down that path that you're so desperate you're done that suicide is the option, this sort of opens up another path. And with hard work, you can go another direction.

There is another sort of way to go that has some hope. I think the main thing, though, or one of the many things that seems to be working is the brotherhood. Remember, a lot of these guys and women go off to war, have this brotherhood, if you will.

BALDWIN: And then they come home and it's like they...

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: They're isolated. They come home and they're isolated and they're dealing with all of the things that happen when you have post- traumatic stress. So, really, what we saw through Save a Warrior was quite remarkable in that five-and-a-half day window.

BALDWIN: Save a Warrior, Save a Warrior, Save a Warrior, I read about it for quite a while today and we will look for it in the documentary. Thank you so much for sharing their stories.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: My pleasure. Watch it, one-hour special, "The War Comes Home," hosted by Soledad O'Brien, Tuesday night. So tomorrow night, 9:00 here on CNN.

Thank you so much.

O'BRIEN: Yes. You bet. My pleasure.

BALDWIN: And we continue, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We begin this hour in Iraq with the terrifying fate of those Yazidi refugees. Here they are on the top of this mountain, Mount Sinjar. Tens of thousands of them are stuck, circled at the base of this mountain by these ISIS militants. They're running against the clock, trying to stay alive, little food, water, and in the blazing Iraqi summer. It's something like a scorching 122 degrees at this time of year at the top of this mountain.

And what we're about to show you, it brings home exactly how horrifying their situation is.

Ivan Watson joined Iraqi and Kurdish soldiers on a mission to deliver humanitarian aid to the refugees. The photojournalist Mark Phillips there. This is what happened when they arrived at the mountain.

And now CNN's Ivan Watson joins me on the phone from Iraq.

Ivan, can you hear me?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I hear you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Wonderful.

Ivan you and mark, your cameraman, inside of this helicopter here, I understand you all took ISIS fire as you were leaving and returning. Tell me about this trip.

WATSON: It's pretty scary. And I think these Iraqi air force crews and the Peshmerga who go with them are heroes. They go in guns blazing, flying across the ISIS front lines to get to this mountain where these stricken people are desperate. They are simply desperate.

And they deliver -- I mean, they have to shoot machine guns to go deliver baby diapers and food and water and baby's milk to the people that are trapped on this mountain, Brooke. And then they take as many as they can get. It's chaotic. It's not organized. There is nobody who is in charge on the ground.

And they bring these people back who just fall to pieces the moment they get into the helicopter. There wasn't a dry eye aboard that helicopter. And, sadly, they had to shoot on the return trip, shooting down at ISIS front lines, which totally terrified little kids who were already traumatized aboard the aircraft.

But that was the only protection that the air force crew had for the passengers who they were evacuating and the helicopter itself -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Just looking at some of the pictures, seeing a lot of teary eyes and the children, as you mentioned, just cannot imagine being a young person on a helicopter trapped with your family, as you pointed out, machine gunfire just to deliver babies.

And it looked to me inside the capacity of this helicopter only a handful of people. How many people remain at the top of the Sinjar Mountain?

WATSON: I could see during the -- we were only over the mountain for probably 10 minutes, 15 minutes tops, circling, dropping off the emergency food and water and medicine, and then picking up these people.

Could see hundreds of people down below. And those numbers could be much more. Kurdish officials say there are tens of thousands still trapped on the mountain. And in some places, you could see probably more than 100 cars all parked in a cluster, which gives you a sense of how many people fled their home villages and their hometown a week ago to this place, to this refuge on a hill.

It was a large number of people. And, as we flew around in circles, you could see families cluttered under trees in the shade. So they do appear to be quite spread out -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: What, Ivan, did these people tell you, tell the soldiers on board this helicopter after it landed?

WATSON: You know, Brooke, there was this 15-year-old girl wearing purple clothes. She was beautiful. And she was inconsolable. As the other people got on board the helicopter, and eventually their kind of shock gave way to relief and they started smiling and hugging each other, and they were clearly relieved that their ordeal on the mountain was over.

This girl just kept crying and crying and crying, 15-year-old Aziza (ph). And she was saying, "Where's my father, where's my father?" And her father had gotten separated from the rest of the family when they fled the ISIS militants a week ago.

The family says they hid in a -- basically a sewer as ISIS was capturing civilians and putting them under lock and key in a wedding hall and in a building used to store water in. And so the rest of the family escaped. The father, I was told, was able to make phone calls to the family for two days. He was holed up in some house, and then his phone went dead. And they haven't heard from him since.

So for 15-year-old Aziza, this was not a celebration. She is out of harm's way, but she and her brother and sister don't know where their father is right now.

BALDWIN: There are no words, no words for this in Iraq.

Ivan Watson, to you and Mark Phillips here, your photojournalist, for capturing these absolutely stunning images, we appreciate both of you.

And let me just bring him right in, Bob Baer, CNN national security analyst Bob Baer live in Irvine, California, former CIA.

When you -- just listening to the conversation, to Ivan's point, you know, this helicopter goes in. It is shooting gunfire just to be able to deliver water and baby diapers and food. It's gut-wrenching.

BOB BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is.

I mean, these -- I cannot say enough how bad these people are, the Islamic State, the Sunni militants. They would, if they could get ahold of these people, kill them all. They look at them as having fallen away from Islam, and it would be instant execution.

So the fact that the Kurds have gone in there and saved them is quite amazing. And I think what lesson here for us is, United States has to arm the Kurds. It's the only safe haven in Iraq right now. The central government is broken, as we have seen in Baghdad today. And the Kurds are good fighters. I spent a couple years with them.

They can take care of these people. And the more aid we give them, the more we're going to avoid a humanitarian disaster.

BALDWIN: Well, we now know the U.S. is arming the Kurds. There is a shipment en route. This is according to our CNN reporting in the last hour or so. So the U.S. will be arming the Kurds.

But is that really enough, Bob?

BAER: It's not enough right now. We're going to need the Air Force to keep the Islamic State off the roads. They have got heavy armor. They have got armored Humvees.

They have got -- they can outgun the Kurds right now and until those weapons come, we're going to have to do the job, along with the Turks as well. You know, this could get a lot worse before it gets better, until those arms get there. You're absolutely right. The Air Force needs to help.

BALDWIN: So once the Air Force hopefully steps in, once the Kurds are armed and the U.S. continues, because we do not know how long this airstrike campaign can go, I mean, do you really think in time ISIS could be destroyed?

BAER: I think ISIS will destroy itself over the years.

But in the meantime, we have to face reality, which we haven't since 2003. The state of Iraq does not exist. It's time for partition. The Kurds need to have an area, the Sunnis need an area and so do the Shia. It's the only out in Iraq. There's no point in pasting this government back together with a new prime minister as long as it's a radical Shia government. And that's what Nouri al-Maliki was.

He was a member of Dawa. That was the same party that blew up our embassy in Beirut in 1983. And Abadi, his supposed replacement, was part of the same party. The country is hopelessly divided. The State Department has to face reality and partition it.

BALDWIN: Keep hearing from the White House needs an inclusive government, needs an inclusive government. That is part -- that is one step on this whole journey, but ISIS and this humanitarian catastrophe, priority number one, it seems. Bob Baer, thank you.

Coming up next, a call for justice from a community outraged over the death of an unarmed black teenager.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The march today to remember this young man, 18-year-old Michael Brown. He was shot by a police officer over the weekend in Ferguson, Missouri, triggering massive protests and looting. My next guest is calling out the police force and the mayor and even the looters, why he has harsh words for all next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

This just in from the police chief of Ferguson, Missouri. He will name the officer who shot 18-year-old Michael Brown in the next 24 hours. He says Ferguson police is holding off revealing the name until the officer can get to a safe location.

The medical examiner also says Michael Brown's autopsy is complete. And the results will be revealed by the Saint Louis County Police. Today, it was supposed to be a first day of college, of technical school for this young, this young Saint Louis area man. But it has become a second day of protests after his death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop the killer cops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So far today, no looting, no gunfire, no violence, unlike the last 24 hours in this city. But the anger has not subsided. Michael Brown was not carrying a weapon when that Ferguson, Missouri, police officer shot and killed him Saturday. There are also conflicting reports under investigation.

Brown and a friend were reportedly jaywalking when the officer approached them. This is when it gets murky. We don't have the details yet. We talked to a witness. This young man's hands were up in the air when the officer shot and killed him. Police, they say Brown was shot in a struggle over this police officer's gun.

What is clear is that some people took advantage of the public outcry by going after not only police, but by crashing through store window after store window, looting private businesses; 32 people were arrested, two police officers injured. Amid all that looting and the violence, even the police chief was hit, was shot at. The bullets didn't hurt him, but the site of his community in turmoil is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: that breaks my heart. Last night was the worst night of my life. I have never seen anything like it, and I hope that I never see anything like it again. Right now, this is peaceful. And this site, they're telling me and they're telling the city that they they're not happy with what happened, the way things are, and that they want answers. And I understand that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All of this brings me to this latest CNN.com opinion piece, penned by L.Z. Granderson. It's entitled "How Many Unarmed People Have to Die?"

And L.Z. joins me now.

L.Z., welcome.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hey, thank you very much, Brooke, for having me.

BALDWIN: You opened your piece with three little words, "I am tired." Explain how. GRANDERSON: Sure.

So I have been a journalist now for going on 20 years. Been at CNN for about four or five years. And it just seems as if I'm constantly writing this story, this story of unarmed African-American being gunned down, basically. Sometimes, it's by a police officer, sometimes by a vigilante. Sometimes, it's by a guy who thinks your music is too loud.

And I just got to the point, as I was sitting down with my computer, and I was just exhausted. I was exhausted mentally, emotionally, because I keep writing this story. And so that's why I started with "I am tired" and I carried that theme throughout the piece, because I'm tired of this story and I think many Americans are tired of this story.

And it's time that we start pushing back against the elements that has this story repeat itself over and over again.

BALDWIN: L.Z., you had a pretty blunt reaction along the "I am tired" theme, a pretty blunt reaction when you saw the video of the looters, many of whom, most of whom are African-American. What did you say?

GRANDERSON: I basically said that I am as disgusted or I viewed them as much hate as I do with the KKK. And the truth is, is that anyone who follows my writing over the years, anyone who has been listening to me over the years knows that I have been very consistent in pointing out wrongdoing, regardless of the color of the person doing the wrongdoing.

And so when I saw those women running down the street with stolen bags of fake hair, I was just livid. Here we are, trying to find some sort of peace, trying to find justice for this young man who has been gunned down, and they're taking advantage of the situation.

You know, it's -- if you know anyone -- and I'm speaking to the viewers. If you know anyone who looted, if you know who may have fired at that police officer, at the police chief, then it's your responsibility to call the police and have those people arrested, because they're not part of the solution. They are part of the larger problem.

BALDWIN: You know, I'm curious. And we just heard from the police chief that we will find out the identity of the officer who shot and killed this young man in the next 24 hours. I have got two very different opinions when I talk to a member of the NAACP in Saint Louis County and when I talked to Don Lemon. And I would love your response. The question being, does it matter, the color of that officer's skin? What do you think?

GRANDERSON: No. It does not matter, because it's about the color of the victim.

African-Americans, black people are just as susceptible to the negative stereotypes of what a black man is and represents as anyone who is not black or African-American. I don't think it matters. But it matters in the way that we cover it, because there are different nuances.

But in the big picture, we all should be outraged, regardless of the color of the shooter, regardless of the color of the murder, because ultimately what happens is, someone sees a black male, typically a black male, and think they're up to no good. They think that they're dangerous. I can remember stories in which an unarmed black man has been shot and killed, and police officers say things like, he had superhuman strength or he was incredibly strong, somehow equating us to some sort of beast.

We're humans and we bleed. And we aren't seen as vulnerable. That, to me is the larger story, not the color of the shooter.

BALDWIN: You say you're tired. I'm tired, quite frankly, L.Z. I don't know who isn't tired of these kinds of stories, L.Z. Granderson.

I want you to read L.Z.'s piece. Just go to CNN.com/opinion. L.Z., I appreciate it. Thank you.

GRANDERSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, a tragic accident or a malicious crime? This is what people are asking today about NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart after he hit a driver on the track, killing him. Next, two people who know the sport and the drivers explain what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Some NASCAR fans love driver Tony Stewart. Some hate him. But nearly all were stunned by what he did at a race over the weekend. On Saturday, during this Sprint car race in New York, Stewart was involved in a crash that sent a young driver's car into the wall.

Kevin Ward Jr. climbed out of the car. Here it was, walked across the track, apparently pointing at Stewart. Now Stewart then hit him, sending the 20-year-old to his death. Stewart called it an accident and said -- quote -- "My thoughts and prayers are with his family, friends and everyone affected by this tragedy."

But let's talk a little bit more about what happened on the track this weekend.

I'm joined by CNN's Rachel Nichols, host of "UNGUARDED," and CNN's Chad, Myers who previously worked as a stock car pit reporter.

So, Chad, let me just ask you first. Tony Stewart, for people who do not know NASCAR, he apparently has a reputation as a hothead. But is he considered reckless?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: But some, sure.

You know, the guy has a widely public scrutiny here, because, you know, of the old times where he had anger management issues. He had worked on those, became a much better guy to be around. And now this happened. So this is a tragic event. It was a dark racetrack, a man wearing a dark uniform, standing in the middle of a dark racetrack. I can't put more things in line to make it more tragic than this.

BALDWIN: Here's my question to Rachel, because I'm not an avid NASCAR watcher. Could you just explain to me why someone -- if a race is going around and cars are whipping around a track, why you would get out of your car?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, sitting here, you would think that would be ridiculous. But when you're in the heat of the moment, it is actually more common than you might think for these guys who are angry -- they just got knocked out of a race -- to go confront the person that they think they did it. Part of it is just heat and passion.

Remember, they were under caution at this time, so in his mind, he's walking across the racetrack where the cars are going slower. And part of it, frankly, is a little bit of the machismo of the racing culture, the idea of, hey, I better show everyone I'm standing by ground, you can't do this to me. And there's a little bit of that ethic in there as well.

I want you guys to take a look at something.

BALDWIN: OK.

NICHOLS: Tony Stewart two years ago actually was in an incident with Matt Kenseth where Kenseth ran him off the track in a way that he thought cost him the race.

Well, take a look at what Tony Stewart does. As Kenseth is coming down pit road, Stewart, who at this point is out of his race car, approaches him, as he's moving, and throws his helmet at him. So this is something that we see time and time again, not usually as dramatically as this.

This shows you where people sometimes think Tony Stewart has some anger issues. But it does happen. In fact, just a few hours before the tragic incident on Saturday night, over down the road at Watkins Glen in the Nationwide race, a driver got ran off the course, got out of his car, went right up to the edge of where they were racing and started yelling and pointing and trying to get to the guy who did it to him.

It happens more than you think. You would have to hope after this incident, it wouldn't happen as much again.

BALDWIN: Oh, my gosh. I just had no idea.

Rachel Nichols and Chad Myers, thank you both very much. Horrible, horrible story.