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Protests in Ferguson; Who's Running North Korea?; Microsoft CEO Under Fire

Aired October 10, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with a new round of protests kicking right now kicking off this hour in the town where an unarmed black teenager was shot and killed by a white police officer.

But if these protests are going to look anything like what police saw last night in Saint Louis, a lot of reinforcements may be needed. Eight people were arrested during this rally over the death of another black teenager. The teen was killed this week by a white police officer. His death, however, was different from Michael Brown's shooting death in August.

Police say Vonderrick Deandre (ph) Myers was armed and fired at the officer first.

Let's go to CNN's Sara Sidner, who is in Ferguson for us today.

Sara, I understand you are just moments away from speaking with the mayor and the police chief for Ferguson.

SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

We were supposed to sit down with them just a half-an-hour ago, but they didn't show up. The public relations person for the city saying they could not leave their offices at this time. We don't know exactly why they couldn't come and talk to us, but we do expect to hear from them a bit later.

And this is all as we know that they are preparing, as well as the city of Saint Louis preparing for what could be thousands of people descending on the Saint Louis area for protests that have been scheduled for quite some time by a group that is protesting what happened here in Ferguson on August 9, that's two months ago, the killing of Michael Brown at the hands of white police officer Darren Wilson, who is still -- all that case still is in the hands of the grand jury.

But another case could inflame tensions, something that happened Wednesday in Saint Louis again involving an 18-year-old black teenager and a white police officer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER (voice-over): Overnight, Shaw Boulevard turned chaotic. Police using pepper spray on the crowd of protesters as the tense standoff quickly escalates. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A large knife came flying out of the crowd.

SIDNER: Police say they were asking the crowd of protesters to disperse around midnight when this knife here on the ground was hurled towards the officers, hitting one of them in the shoulder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just shows how the emotions and how quickly this situation can turn.

SIDNER: Protesters also smashing the windows of a police car, someone throwing a brick at this police SUV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand the emotions but there's some things that you just can't tolerate and that's one of them.

SIDNER: What started out as a peaceful vigil early Thursday evening, later reignited anger over the killing of black teenager Von Derek Myers shot by a white off-duty St. Louis police officer working a security job. Police say Myers was no stranger to them. Myers, pictured here, for a gun charge back in June.

An autopsy revealed the 18-year-old was shot seven or eight times. The fatal wound -- a gunshot to his right cheek.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what democracy looks like.

SIDNER: The call for justice reminiscent of the outrage over unarmed teenager Michael Brown's shooting only two months ago. Allegedly with his hands up, Brown was shot six times by a white police officer only 12 miles away in Ferguson, Missouri. A grand jury is currently hearing the case and will decide if charges will be brought against Officer Darren Wilson.

But this most recent shooting may be different. Police say Myers fired a 9-millimeter pistol three times at the officer; the officer then firing a total of 17 times. The weapon recovered at the scene. Myers' family members insist, though, that the teenager was unarmed and holding a sandwich at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a right to have a life just like anyone else.

SIDNER: and some people are building their own narrative, expressing distrust of the St. Louis Police Department.

AKBAR MUHAMMAD, COALITION FOR MICHAEL BROWN: It's a clear case of this young man being gunned down by an insensitive white officer who was off duty. He chased him off a corner.

SIDNER: Protesters pushing the limit with police in burning the American flag. In this divided community, racial tensions and nerves on edge

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And, Sara, this is shaping up to be a very big weekend with the multiple protests and the rallies taking place there. What exactly might we expect to see?

SIDNER: There are protests that are scheduled both in Saint Louis and here in Ferguson.

One is scheduled just an hour from now out by the prosecuting attorney's office. And, as you well know, that is who is handed over the evidence to the grand jury, which is still looking at whether or not to indict officer Darren Wilson for the killing of the Ferguson teenager Michael Brown.

That's been a very contentious issue. A lot of the protesters have been angry at how long this has taken. They were expecting that decision to come down actually now, mid-October. That's been pushed to mid-November. People screaming for justice, saying justice is taking too long -- Randi.

KAYE: And what about plans by law enforcement? Are there going to be any changes that we might expect to see in terms of how they respond or how they are patrolling these areas?

SIDNER: Yes.

We do know that the departments are all beefed up. They are all looking at more officers, making sure, for example, in Saint Louis that there are two officers who respond to any conflicts, instead of, for example, one.

And we do know that there are 12-hour shifts. These guys are going to be -- more people are going to be working around the clock. What we have noticed here in Ferguson over the past two months or so since the shooting of Michael Brown is that when you first saw this explode, there were departments that brought out military equipment.

It wasn't Ferguson itself, but Saint Louis brought out some military equipment. That's all stopped. What we're seeing is Saint Louis County has taken over really when it comes to the protesters here in Ferguson and they have managed to keep things fairly calm. Usually, the protests happen every night.

There haven't been arrests, for example, here in Ferguson, but in Saint Louis, a different story last night, Randi.

KAYE: Yes. All right.

Sara Sidner, keep an eye on things there for us. We appreciate that. Thank you.

Not everyone agrees that an injustice was done in the shooting death of Myers. Remember, police say that he was armed when he was shot and killed by an officer. Now, just a short time ago, I spoke with Kevin Jackson. He's executive director of the Black Sphere and author of "The Big Black Lie." And he gave me his take on the protests happening this weekend and much more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KEVIN JACKSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE BLACK SPHERE: If a person believes or a group believes that there is something to fight for, they are certainly entitled to do that. I think that the black community is going to at some point get very tired of leftists and leftism and liberalism of ringing the Pavlovian bell and saying, hey, here's another injustice against you, when there's not an injustice there.

But if a perpetrator shoots at a cop, he's going to get shot back. And that's the cop's responsibility is to protect the neighborhood. At some point, I think we're going to tire of this and the backlash is going to be evident in the ballot box.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Kevin Jackson speaking with us earlier.

Missing in North Korea, no, not another American. Kim Jong-un, the leader of the country, where is he? CNN's Erin Burnett joins us to talk about who might be running the communist nation next.

And have you heard what the CEO of Microsoft said about women asking for raises? If not, you will, his words raising eyebrows and plenty of criticism. The Microsoft board member who asked the question that led to the controversial comments will join us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Well, at last check, Kim Jong-un still MIA.

The North Korean leader hasn't been seen in public in 37 days now. Overnight, he missed a ceremonial palace visit to the remains of his father and grandfather. And make no mistake, that was a pretty big deal. We know that he had gout. Not good for the ego to be limping around your empire, but could it be something more sinister? Could he have been overthrown?

Joining me now is CNN's Erin Burnett to talk more about this.

All right, so when it comes to North Korea, there's always much we don't know. What do we know?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: That's the big question.

It's pretty amazing when you think about some things we found out. For example, we found out that he had had a child and that it was a little girl from Dennis Rodman. Right? That's just some perspective on this.

KAYE: Pretty amazing.

BURNETT: In a lot of ways, we know a lot more about him. The state media has been much more open about Kim Jong-un than they were about his father.

But there's one thing we know about him. He has always been seen in public 25 times a month, 15 times a month. All of a sudden, not seen at all, and that's really strange for a leader who loves the camera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT (voice-over): The last time the world saw North Korea's young leader Kim Jong-un, he was clearly limping, on his way, according to state media, to a rock concert. He's a man whose every move has been glorified in word and music. He craves the spotlight, whether riding a horse, going to the amusement park or hanging out with basketball star Dennis Rodman.

So, Kim's five week disappearance from the public eye has fueled endless rumors of bad health, a coup, even death.

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOWN": North Korea in one way is a cult. And a cult leader has to be seen, especially a new lewder. So, Kim Jong-un toured around the country. And then, all of a sudden, he disappeared. He hasn't been seen in public since September 3. So, that by itself, if nothing more, indicates that there is something really wrong.

BURNETT: A family history of gout and diabetes, coupled with Kim's ballooning size and that recent limp have lead many to speculate that he is seriously ill. One story going so far as to suggest his ankles were crushed under his own weight.

Then, there's the political intrigue. Last year, Kim's uncle fell out of favor, supposedly over a power struggle. That uncle was executed, some say by a machine gun. In fact, in less than three years, Kim has reportedly replaced almost half the country's top leaders.

CHANG: All of these promotions and demotions and side way transfers has caused great resentment among flag officers. And also, we've seen the same thing among this in the civilian ranks. There are reports that Kim Jong-un has forced the admirals into swimming contests.

BURNETT: Have angry party members delivered paid back with a coup?

So, if not Kim Jong-un, then who? Some say his sister, Kim Yo-jong. She is 26 years old and seems to be rising in prominence. She's been much more visible in recent months.

Or Hwang Pyong So, in his mid-60s. He's led North Korea's delegation in Kim Jong-un's place last week at the Asian Games hosted by archenemy South Korea. North Korean experts call him friendly and pleasant, but he has also threatened the United States with nuclear Armageddon.

Then there's another fascinating disappearance, Kim's wife, Ri Sol-ju, she's also disappeared from the public for long periods of time. Experts say she may have fallen from favor when she gave birth last year and failed to deliver a son.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: We know that changes in North Korea happen without much of a warning. What's the media there saying? BURNETT: It's pretty interesting. More than you might think, right,

indicating that there really is something amiss, at least if it's health-wise.

The state-run newspaper today actually said, well, there were leaders from overseas who support North Korea, they sent Mr. Kim flowers on the anniversary. And they said that they actually wrote with a note on the flowers said -- the note said, that they wished Marshal Kim's good health.

And some experts are saying, well, you know, they wouldn't say good health if he was in good health. There is speculation about that. And then that whole limping incident, they actually -- you saw that on state-run television in North Korea. They reported that as a sign of look at how hard he's working. He will work through any kind of pain.

There's been acknowledgement of some of these issues in state-run media. But it's pretty incredible in so many senses how in this day in age we can know so little, be grasping onto these little...

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: About a country that we fear so much.

BURNETT: Yes.

And then there was one other thing I saw, I have to tell you. The Daily Beast was reporting that part of the reason he's so fat is that he wants to be fat to mimic his father, who apparently was 5'2'' and 200 pounds.

KAYE: Same stature he wants.

BURNETT: So that the stature and shape somehow makes him a bigger leader and more...

KAYE: Quite literally.

BURNETT: Quite literally, yes.

KAYE: All right. Erin Burnett, thank you. Nice to see you. Appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: And, of course, you can catch more on Kim Jong-un, the international man of mystery, tonight on "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT." Don't forget, 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

All right, let me bring in Han Park now. He's the author of "North Korea Demystified."

South Korea's defense minister said today that Kim is probably staying in one of his homes near a hospital with his wife and sister, Han.

Could Kim be ruling from his sickbed and maybe afraid of looking weak, even though we have seen him limping out there in public? Han, Han, can you hear me?

HAN PARK, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA: Yes. Yes, I can hear you. I can hear you.

KAYE: I'm just wondering, is it possible that Kim could be ruling from his sickbed? Is that possible?

PARK: I think that's entirely possible. That was the case for his father and grandfather.

And I think it's unwarranted to speculate further, any further than the fact that he's physically uncomfortable and that we have to realize that in North Korea, yes, he's the absolute leader. But he doesn't make all kind of decisions. He's not that clever. I don't think with this age and lack of experience, he's capable of making major decisions.

In fact, all decisions are made by the party, the labor party. And the party has really expertise in all areas. I think in this case how to manage Kim Jong-un's life is also determined by the party.

KAYE: It sounds like you're saying, even if he is sick, it might not matter that much.

PARK: Right. Right. He's symbolically important, but in actual ingenuity in running the government, it's not him. It's the party.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: How would we know if there had been any type of coup of some sort?

PARK: No, you can -- I mean, you have to -- is there anyone who might have the ambition of overthrowing his leadership? North Korea is a dynasty, a Kim dynasty. In fact, Kim Jong-un is not ruling.

The ultimate authority stems from his grandfather, and his grandfather is like a god in North Korean belief system. So no one can dare touch Kim family. So, I don't think so. But, if anything, probably sort of royal coup, you might say, within the Kim family, some alternative personnel or persons can emerge as potential leaders, but not on -- not outside the family can dare challenge his authority.

KAYE: And speaking of the family, what do you make of some talk that maybe his sister is actually ruling North Korea?

PARK: I think that he has brothers. It's a little far-fetched.

Also, a female in North Korea, such a Confucian culture, becoming the head of a state is also quite far-fetched speculation. I don't think the younger sister is in any position to succeed him. I think he's politically healthy.

He simply could not come out in that terrible, physical shape limping. So, I fully expect him to deliver a major speech. Now, after his three top assistants went to South Korea and they had some substantive talks, if Kim Jong-un is going to deliver a major address, it has to be crafted very carefully, so he may be working on the address and may more -- I wouldn't be surprised if he emerged, reemerged in the next couple days.

KAYE: I'm sure that would be interesting because a lot of people certainly want to see him and hear from him. Han Park, appreciate your expertise on this. Thank you.

PARK: You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

KAYE: So you have seen the video probably, a man Tased and dragged from a car following a routine traffic stop. As if that didn't cause public outrage, have you heard what the police officer in Hammond, Indiana, has done now? We will talk about it in three minutes. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back, everyone.

You have seen the disturbing video. A police officer in Indiana is recorded smashing a car's passenger side window and Tasing the man sitting inside because he refused to obey a command to identify himself and exit the car.

That passenger, Jamal Jones, and his partner who was behind the wheel are suing the Hammond Police Department, alleging excessive force. But now Jones could be in store for some other legal troubles. The 27-year-old faces possible arrest for a 7-year-old misdemeanor drug charge of allegedly dealing pot.

Jones' attorney is calling the arrest warrant retaliation. The timing they say is extremely suspect.

Back with me now, CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins.

All right, Mel, so why bring up this charge and this arrest warrant now?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, there's two reasons. The one reason is if you notice once they Tasered him, they also arrested him and so now he's in the system and he's fingerprinted.

And what happens in that instance is old arrest warrants come up. And so on one hand, you have got a criminal procedure that was ignited with the arrest and typically warrants come up. On the other hand, this thing is seven years' old. They didn't raise it or issue an arrest warrant until after he filed his lawsuit.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to say that the Hammond police are trying to send a message to this guy, and the whole thing stinks.

KAYE: Yes. But is it commonplace that someone who is back in -- or put in the spotlight for something else and all of a sudden this sort of thing happens? ROBBINS: That's not very commonplace at all because it looks badly on

the police.

What would be commonplace is if you're going to arrest him for failing to obey an officer and refusing to give identification and for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, what's common is once you book the person, other arrest warrants that are in the system come up.

KAYE: They come up automatically or does someone actually have to go looking for a background check on you?

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: It depends on the state, depends on jurisdiction. But they typically, at least with the clients I was representing when I was a legal aid attorney here in New York City, they would come up automatically underneath the prints, underneath the person's social, underneath the person's name.

But, in this instance, maybe it was an arrest and there was never any warrant issued or maybe it was an arrest and because it's a misdemeanor they gave him a desk appearance ticket, which basically says we have arrested you. It's small fry kind of crime.

KAYE: Right.

ROBBINS: Here's your receipt to come back to court and he never showed up.

Those are less likely to follow up. But the timing of this is bogus.

KAYE: It's sort of a scare tactic. Could it be sort of like don't mess with us because we are going to mess with you?

ROBBINS: Absolutely it could be a scare tactic. But it's only a misdemeanor.

He's accused of -- accused, by the way, of selling weed. It's only a misdemeanor, which it's going to carry less than a year in jail. I don't know if this guy has a criminal record or not. What I do know is what those police did is traumatizing.

I think a lot about the fact that, look, I have been driving for -- how old am I? Forty-six. I have been driving for 30 years. I have been known to speed. I have been pulled over a few times. Never once in the 30 years has anyone in my car but me ever been asked for identification. My husband has never been asked for identification. My passengers have never been asked for identification.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: So, then why pile on? Can it help the officer's case?

ROBBINS: It can't help the officer's case at all.

In fact, if anything, it's only going to make this family dig in. And what is going to make the case worse is what the family and what CNN has reported is that these officers that are involved in this have had some other allegations of excessive force settled in the past.

And so it only makes them look worse if you ask me if they are piling on a misdemeanor charge and arrest. What you're going to see is, you're going to see Mr. Jones go down and surrender himself, which will mean he will be charged formally, there will be a bail hearing.

KAYE: Right.

ROBBINS: Since he has an attorney, he's surrendered, he's not a flight risk, they are probably going to release him on his own recognizance, or at least nominal bail, and then that case will go forward.

But that case from 2007 has nothing to do with what the police did.

KAYE: It certainly doesn't sound that way.

All right, Mel Robbins, great to see you. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: So, women shouldn't ask for raises, huh? Well, those aren't my words. They are the words of Microsoft's CEO. And as you might expect, there are plenty of people who are not happy with him. Next, the Microsoft board member who asked the question that brought that controversial response, she will join us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)