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ISIS Dodging Spies; Immigration Debate; Sports Betting

Aired November 14, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

Happy Friday to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's begin with ISIS because we know that the leader of ISIS is vowing to, quote, "erupt volcanoes of jihad everywhere." That's a direct quote. The U.S. may be reconsidering whether combat troops should head to the battlefield. President Barack Obama said repeatedly said he would not order U.S. ground combat forces to fight ISIS in Syria or in Iraq. But the message is this. The message from the president's top military advisers is not so definitive. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I'm not predicting at this point that I would recommend that those forces in Mosul and along the border would need to be accompanied by U.S. forces, but we're certainly considering it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: But it is why a change in strategy may be needed that's so disturbing. This new report from "The Daily Beast" claims ISIS leaders are escaping U.S. spies by encrypting their communications. If you read this report it goes on to says, and let me quote part of it for you, "ISIS is also using a commercially available service that permanently deletes messages sent via the Internet making them nearly impossible to intercept." This allegation here from U.S. intelligence sources, alluded to by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: ISIL fighters have been forced to alter their tactics. We knew they would. They will adapt. They will adjust. Maneuvering in smaller groups. Sometimes making it more difficult to identify targets. Hiding large equipment and changing their communications methods.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Changing their communications methods. Let's talk about that with one of the writers of this "Daily Beast" article. Shane Harris, author of "@War."

So, Shane, welcome to you. And let's just begin with -- explain to me, without getting too, you know, into the technological machinations of all of this, how ISIS is able to evade America's pretty sophisticated intelligence agencies with this encrypted technology.

SHANE HARRIS, SR. CORRESPONDENT, "THE DAILY BEAST": Right. Well, it is a very sophisticated intelligence apparatus. But it can only locate people if it can get inside their communications and if it can also listen to what they're saying. And what we're told by U.S. officials is that ISIS is being very careful to limit the amount of communication that they're doing, particularly over cell phones, which makes it very hard to track a signal. And when they are communicating, they're encrypting messages to each other and using these services that apparently delete messages. So it makes it very difficult for the U.S. to capture the message and see what they're actually saying when they actually are online, which they're limiting as well.

BALDWIN: Shane, how would they even know either, I guess, how to do this or the need to do this because, you know, you write in your piece, the very last scrap (ph) of your piece dates back to, you know, something in 2013, November of 2013, before the, you know, the bombs started falling when ISIS launched this encryption tool. And you mentioned Edward Snowden, but you quote, you know, multiple people who sort of say that's laughable if you even consider Edward Snowden, you know, the catalyst of this.

HARRIS: Right. I mean there's some people who would try to suggest that because Snowden leaked documents that effectively say the NSA monitors the phone calls of terrorists, that that somehow alerted ISIS to, oh, wow, they're monitoring our phone calls. You know we're at -- what's happened here is that ISIS is a reasonably sophisticated organization and, you know, I think they're aware that the U.S. intelligence tries to monitor them and track them through their cell phones. I mean it's a pretty obvious thing. So they've been taking steps early on to practice very good communication security because they know that they're being watched. And they clearly know that now and it's making them harder to track.

BALDWIN: You also pinpoint, you know, perhaps one of the reasons that this encrypted communication system - this maybe is one of the reasons why the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has escaped, you know, six weeks of targeted air strikes. But given these different tactics, Shane, reports indicate, you know, the U.S. is actually going to the lengths of monitoring communications from the Bashar al Assad regime, which can be tough to verify. And just even knowing that, what does that tell you about U.S. efforts?

HARRIS: Well, I think what it tells us is that they are trying very hard, the intelligence agencies, to get intelligence and information on ISIS' movements and plans from any source that they can find. If they're not going to be able to get it from the members themselves, they're going to do it by trying to eavesdrop on members of the Assad regime, listen to what they're saying and what they're gossiping about. And it just proves that (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: And it could be just that, gossip. HARRIS: Yes, it could be. Absolutely. And it's very hard to verify.

And how do you know that the information that the Syrian officials are getting is accurate as well. So what this tells us is that U.S. intelligence is having to work, I think, harder than they would - than they have in the past to try and penetrate these groups.

BALDWIN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Shane Harris, "Daily Beast," thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it.

And staying in Washington, you know, less anyone hadn't seen the writing on the wall, you have President Obama today, in Myanmar, saying he will order sweeping changes to the immigration system thus halting millions of planned deportations. He said Congress could have fixed immigration. In fact, he said Congress should have fixed it, but House Republicans failed. So says Barack Obama right here in Myanmar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I gave the House over a year to go ahead and at least give a vote to the Senate bill. They failed to do so. And I indicated to Speaker Boehner several months ago that if in fact Congress failed to act, I would use all the lawful authority that I possess to try to make the system work better. And that's going to happen. That's going to happen before the end of the year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Those are fighting words to Republicans. House Speaker John Boehner says on this one he will fight the president, quote/unquote "tooth and nail" across the board defiance. Another Republican, Joe Barton of Texas, suggested the House Republicans could impeach the president for alleged abuse of power. Executive orders, by the way.

I want you to look at this graph pretty closely. Listen, they're not uncommon. You have Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Bush 2, all of those presidents issued more executive orders than President Barack Obama has.

And we came across this today. This question submitted actually a while back on the nonpartisan website, this is factcheck.org. The question is this, has Barack Obama signed 900 executive orders, some of which create martial law? The answer, two letters, no. Obama's executive orders do not create martial law. He has signed 100 plus executive orders, not 900. That is the answer from this nonpartisan website, factcheck.org. And, by the way, they say they get that question a lot.

So let's go to Miami for this one. Alan Gomez, he's the immigration reporter for "USA Today."

Alan, welcome.

ALAN GOMEZ, "USA TODAY" IMMIGRATION REPORTER: Hi.

BALDWIN: Hello. So, we want to get through as many of these points as possible, and let me just begin with what we just heard the president say, that House Republicans, these are the folks that are so, you know, set and impassioned by this, have had a year or more to pass immigration reform but thus far have not done so. Why not?

GOMEZ: Pick a reason. They've had a - they've had different things happen over the course of the last year.

BALDWIN: That was a sigh.

GOMEZ: Yes, they've had a few things going on over the last year or so. At first they were saying when they were first considering taking up the Senate bill that they just couldn't trust the president to enforce the border security components of it. As we get to summer and we start seeing this rush of central America children coming to the border, they were saying, that's not a good time to take on such a bill like that, to start considering that.

And so now what we're going to see, if he does this executive action, a lot of them are saying, well, that's going to be another reason for them not to take up any sort of immigration reform in the Congress. They do have the option, if the president does this, he said this several times, that if Congress passes an immigration bill that he can stomach, that he would happily sign it and it would supersede any sort of executive action that he does. So they still have an opportunity regardless of whether he does this or not.

BALDWIN: So that's a possible solution we could look at, you know, perhaps in the coming months. But let me hone in on the details of this executive action, this planned executive order, because we're told by sources that it's actually still a work in progress but the outline looks something like this. Protection from deportation for people who entered illegally as children prior to 2007, and that also includes their parents. That is in the range of 4 million people. But this order would also speed the deportations of those convicted of crimes, even traffic crimes, like driving while impaired. So given those bullet points you see on the screen, some of the nuts and bolts of this planned executive action, that is what we are hearing at CNN. Alan, do you have any more information on that?

GOMEZ: I mean we're - we're at that stage where they're really kind of trying to fine tune what they're going to do. As we've seen after these points were leaked, there's already an uproar in the undocumented immigrant population saying, well, wait a second, why are you going to protect people who have children who are U.S. citizens, but you're not going to protect somebody who has no kids but has lived in this country for 20, 30 years? So I think that's what the White House is going back and revisiting.

Vice President Biden, today, in the morning, at a speech at the Inner American Development Bank, was saying that the executive action was going to focus on those who have been in the shadows the longest. So a lot of people were looking at that and saying, oh, does that mean he's going to protect people who have been here for 20, 30 years but might not have children here? So we're getting to that point where we're parsing already which segment of the undocumented population is going to be protected by this order and he's definitely getting heat on all sides to get as many of those in there as he can.

BALDWIN: I think that's important to bring that up, though, the heat on all sides, because you have a lot of Republicans who were saying that the president is going too far. But as you mentioned, some of these immigrants' rights groups are saying, hang on, this is not going far enough, correct?

GOMEZ: Exactly. Yes, I mean, this - and this is where the president's been on immigration for about a year and a half now. He's got Republicans who are just going to slam him for anything that he does through an executive action and you've got these immigration advocate groups that are going to be slamming him for not going far enough. As one of them put it to me yesterday, you know, the Republicans are going to get mad if he legalizes 100 people, so why not go all the way and legalize 5 million, 6 million, 7 million, 8 million, 9 million undocumented immigrants? So whatever he does, there's protests today outside the White House arguing for those people who have been here for a long time but just don't happen to have children. So, yes, he -- no matter where he goes, he's going to be squeezed on this.

BALDWIN: Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it sounds like. Alan Gomez with "USA Today," thank you so much. I appreciate it. We're going to talk a little bit more about immigration in the next two hours.

GOMEZ: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Meantime, ahead here on CNN, the fugitive who evaded police for weeks and weeks writes this chilling letter before this alleged rampage warning of a revolution, his word. But hear what he told his mom and dad.

Plus, one of Bill Cosby's accusers coming forward, speaking to CNN, and she does not understand why no one believed her when she spoke out 30 years ago.

And, parents call the police afraid their son may harm himself. The man would later be convicted of plotting to shoot up a movie theater during a "Twilight" showing. But the thing is, both of the parents and the son say he wasn't plotting. Sanjay Gupta goes inside prison for talk to him. Do not miss this important story. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's talk about this letter. This letter to his mom and dad found on Eric Frein's computer exposing new details as to what could be the accused cop killer's true motivations for allegedly ambushing and fleeing police for nearly seven weeks. In a letter written in December of last year, Frein apologizes to his mom and dad. This is what he writes in part.

"You guys are great parents. I am just not a good son. I squandered so much opportunity and support and rarely tried my best at anything." When you read this letter it goes on to call for a revolution. This is the word he uses. And court documents reveal Frein called his shooting an effort to quote/unquote "wake up people" and change the government. This leading prosecutor to pursue new terrorism charges against him.

Here with me CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

So, Mr. Cevallos, let me just go on a quote a little bit more of this letter for everyone. He writes this. "Only passing through the crucible of another revolution can get us back the liberties we once had. I do not pretend to know what the revolution will look like or even if it would be successful." So is that word "revolution," is that, you know, what they used enough to have these terrorism charges against him?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It will be helpful, but ultimately there's a lot of other evidence that will go towards proving a terrorism charge. Here's why. Terrorism, as it's defined in Pennsylvania and in most statutes, basically requires an underlying violent offense. And then on top of that, the government -

BALDWIN: Being murder in this case.

CEVALLOS: Absolutely and murder's an easy one. It might be bombing. It might be any other underlying violent offense.

BALDWIN: OK.

CEVALLOS: But murder is definitely a qualifying felony. So then you go to, what was the additional intent? Was the intent to terrorize citizens? Was it to affect the conduct of government? And once you get into these elements, and that's exactly what they have in the complaint, is the effect it had on government. Well then now you have that evidence in a letter. Irrespective of whether or not it was mailed. It doesn't matter that you put a stamp on it and mail it. All that does is give us a glimpse into the mind of the defendant and what he was thinking when he committed this underlying felony. So it will be very helpful evidence that will go along with all of the other evidence including, don't forget, a very comprehensive statement that we're hearing he gave.

BALDWIN: How can - I mean how can a defense attorney then even begin to try to argue, if even they do, sort of insanity, given all of what we -- the plotting, the months, the details, the success in evading police for 48 days? How will that play out on his side?

CEVALLOS: Let's start with insanity. It's going to be very difficult because insanity is defined by whether or not you appreciated the wrongfulness of your actions. And that often confuses people. It's not whether you personally thought what you did was wrong, it's whether you're aware that society deems it wrong. And when you run away, when you try to hide, that means that you know on some level that what society thinks about what you did is that it was wrong. So you're aware of the wrongfulness. This is going to be a very difficult case to defend. But the first

thing you're going to have to do is try to throw out the statement, see if there's something about it that was coercive, but ultimately these writings, I can't tell you, Brooke, how often defendants are undone by their own - whether it be a diary - a diary is a little more rare, nowadays I see it with FaceBook, Twitter, Instagram.

BALDWIN: But in their own words.

CEVALLOS: Their own words. And those words, their conduct, whether it's in a picture or in a diary or however.

BALDWIN: OK. Danny Cevallos, thank you very much.

CEVALLOS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Appreciate it.

Coming up next, should Americans be able to freely bet on sports games? The NBA commissioner coming out in favor of this. Could it hurt the integrity of sports? We'll talk about that.

Also ahead, they thought it was a tiger on the loose. Look at the picture yourself. Now they're calling it just a really big cat. But it's got a lot of people staying inside. The hunt for this feline, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: NBA Commissioner Adam Silver says it is time to legalize sports gambling. He says so in this "The New York Times" opinion piece where he writes that illegal betting is widespread and unregulated. He writes this in part, "there is an obvious appetite among sports fans for a safe and legal way to wager on professional sporting events." He goes on, "I believe that sports betting should be brought out of the underground and into the sunlight where it can be appropriately monitored and regulated.

CNN Sports Rachel Nichols, host of "Unguarded," joins me now.

And I guess the first question would be why. I mean he obviously sees this as a legit business, but it's a business opportunity as well.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS: Absolutely. Yes, and the NBA would make money if sports gambling was more legal and widespread -

BALDWIN: Yes.

NICHOLS: Because if you are placing bets now on your teams, boy, you're a whole lot more invested in that game than if you're just flipping around at night on your sofa, which means you are stay engaged with that game longer, you're tweeting about it, you're watching the commercials that the NBA teams have sold for that game. It's -- you might end up buying a jersey because you start to really fall in love with some player. I mean this is a way for them to make money. And maybe even down the road they could partner with some of these gambling operations to be like, hey, if you want to bet on the NBA, you've got to bet through our company. That's a business opportunity too.

BALDWIN: You know, we were talking briefly before you came on about Fantasy. All these Fantasy games. Who doesn't know someone who's playing and making a buck at the end of the season over a Fantasy Sports. Why not just -

NICHOLS: Of course. Yes, there's some big money in these Fantasy leagues. Now, that's technically illegal. You're probably not going to turn in the guy at the cubical next to you for running a Fantasy team.

BALDWIN: Right. Right.

NICHOLS: But that is technically illegal and that's one of the reasons that Adam Silver gives and Dallas Mavericks' owner Mark Cuban came out and backed him up saying, hey, we all know this is going on, let's stop being a little bit silly in that whole, you know, famous "Casablanca" scene, there's gambling, I'm shocked, shocked. There's gambling at this establishment. Like, you've got to be a little bit, hey.

BALDWIN: Yes.

NICHOLS: There is a flip side, though.

BALDWIN: Yes.

NICHOLS: There are people who are concerned about this.

BALDWIN: You just talked to the commissioner of the NHL. What did he tell you?

NICHOLS: Yes, we interviewed Gary Bettman for our show "Unguarded" tonight and he said that he thinks the influence this would have on kids could be pretty dangerous.

BALDWIN: Huh.

NICHOLS: That we hold up sports as this ideal thing. Teamwork, right? It's all these great values about sportsmanship and you work hard and things pay off for you. If, instead, sports are reduced to a gambling line and did he make the - did he cover the spread as opposed to did he do the right thing, did he make the right shot, did he achieve the goal, that will influence something that is really, frankly, a cornerstone of American society.

BALDWIN: It's not like sports is entirely squeaky clean, but that's for another segment.

NICHOLS: No. Ah, no.

BALDWIN: My final question too is, you know, when you think of making a little money and gambling, you think of Vegas - NICHOLS: Yes.

BALDWIN: And you think, hmm, there is no professional team in Vegas. Could that be part of this?

NICHOLS: Absolutely. There are people outside of this who think, hey, this could be a step to that. There's already a group building an arena in Las Vegas. They've talked about maybe trying to get an NHL franchise. Certainly the NBA has flirted with the idea of having a franchise in Las Vegas.

And think about that. If you have millions of tourists coming into Las Vegas and one person in the group wants to go see a show but the other person is like, ah, I don't like shows, let's go - let's go to a game.

BALDWIN: Make a little money.

NICHOLS: Hey, you know, then you can make all kinds of cash.

BALDWIN: Interesting.

NICHOLS: And if gambling is legal, it's a lot less dangerous to put a sports team in Vegas. Right now it's a little bit edgy.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching for you tonight, 10:30 p.m. Eastern, "Unguarded." Rachel Nichols, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much, my friend. I appreciate it.

And now this. For a decade, comedian Bill Cosby has weathered this storm of multiple rape allegations. And unlike other battered celebrities, his career was seemingly unsinkable. But is the tide of public opinion now turning against him? The future of the Cosby brand, next.

Plus, the parents of a mentally ill man turn him into police, but he is now in prison over a shooting plot. Are they having second thoughts? Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta says it is an interview that left him absolutely stunned. You will not want to miss this story. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's talk about this social media fail. It puts a comedian, who once earned the Presidential Medal of Freedom, back under suspicion. I'm talking about Bill Cosby. He was the first African-American to star in a dramatic TV series "I Spy" way back in the 1960s. And then, of course, we all know he went on to become America's favorite TV dad, Dr. Heathcliff Huxtable, in the 1980s. He is actually now set to star in another series on NBC. But since 2005, there has been this handful of women who have accused Cosby of sexual assault. He has denied these allegations over and over. He has never been charged. Never, thus, convicted.