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Search for AirAsia Jet Continues; New Year's Eve Protests?

Aired December 31, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Ana Cabrera. And thanks for rolling with us. This is CNN's special live coverage of the deadly AirAsia plane disaster.

And while search crews may not have found the fuselage yet, they have recovered some bodies, seven of them so far. Local reports say a teenage boy and a woman believed to be wearing a flight attendant uniform are among the first of the 162 people pulled out of the Java Sea.

Rescue workers and soldiers carrying two simple wooden boxes bearing those bleak numbers 001 and 002, but the remaining bodies may not be as easy to retrieve. While the depth of the Java Sea is relatively shallow, no deeper than the Great Lakes here in the U.S., weather is fast becoming a huge problem for those searchers, monsoonal conditions slamming the seas, grounding planes and preventing divers from reaching more bodies, most of which are believed to be strapped in their seats.

Now, the head of AirAsia playing down initial reports that sonar had detected the plane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY FERNANDES, CEO, AIRASIA GROUP: The search-and-rescue teams are doing a fantastic job. They are narrowing the search. They are feeling comfortable, more comfortable that they are beginning to know where it is, but they have no confirmation of them. No sonar. Nothing. Some visual identification, but nothing confirmed.

The weather unfortunately is not looking good for the next two or three days. That is slowing us down, but they did inform me that the ships are looking to operate 24 hours, which is very encouraging. And they are moving all the assets to the two spots which they think the aircraft could be -- where the aircraft could be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: For more on what search crews and crash investigators are facing out there, CNN's Tom Foreman is joining us.

Hey, Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Ana.

Really, what they are trying to do in these very difficult conditions right now is connect the dots. They know where the plane took off, of course. They know where the plane wound up. They know where debris has now been found in that red box down there.

And they know they are dealing with a lot of currents out here, things that make it very difficult. How do they connect the dots here and get the real evidence they need? They work in three different layers. First of all, there's the surface layer. When we talk about this debris floating on top of the water, we're probably not talking about critical keys as to what brought this plane down just because that's not the type of thing that will tend to float out here.

But if you move from the first layer of the search into the middle layer, where they start tracing those pieces on the top through the currents as they know them to exist here, and then they can reach the third layer at the bottom down here, and that's where the critical information will likely be found. Why is that?

Because that's where the heavy pieces are. You mentioned a minute ago, Ana, the idea of the main part of the fuselage and whether or not they can find that. That's the kind of thing they're looking for here. They're looking for big portions of this plane out here, things like big parts of the wings and the tail, the critical systems, the electrical system, the engines which each way about 9,000 pounds, the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, all sorts of things out there, because if they can pull all of this together, Ana, they can get a complete picture of the plane.

And that's what they need right now to complete that connecting of the dots from when it took off to when something went wrong to when it wound up in the water -- Ana.

CABRERA: That's right. Tom Foreman, thank you.

And the families, those poor families, still waiting anxiously as the searchers slowly recover some of the bodies of their loved ones that were killed in the AirAsia crash. These coffins containing two of those bodies were just airlifted today to Surabaya Airport in Indonesia, and that's the city of course where AirAsia Flight 8501 originated and where the bodies became the first to be identified.

CNN's Andrew Stevens is at the Surabaya Airport now.

Andrew, I want to start with the arrival of those two coffins that we just showed. Set the scene for us there.

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a very somber moment, those two coffins just simply marked 001 and 002 arriving on a transport, a military transport, and they were taken off by pallbearers from the plane, Ana.

And there was a very somber gathering of dozens of military there and they were loaded into hearses and taken down to the disaster identification area for the victims and that's now where they are. And they are currently, as we understand it, still being identified. We haven't had confirmation of names yet, but a terribly, terribly sad scene, as you can imagine. And for the families who would have been seeing those pictures as well

knowing that it's more than likely -- it's very, very unlikely there are any survivors obviously, that in the next few days that their own kin will make that very sad journey to their final resting place.

What's been happening here over the last few hours at Surabaya Airport, this has been the crisis center, Ana, but they have now moved the family away from the airport. They have dismantled or in the process of dismantling the crisis center here and moving it to an area very close to the hospital where the identification will take place, just so the families can be closer to where they need to be.

They are still getting a lot of support obviously from authorities and from AirAsia as well, but nothing obviously come close to replacing what -- the enormous loss that they have suffered.

CABRERA: Andrew, any word on the kind of support some of these loved ones will receive longer term?

STEVENS: It will be -- the support will be available for them and if they feel in need of it, they will take it. There will be counseling available. There will be -- any sort of public medical facilities will be available to them too, of course.

And there will be compensation at some stage. That hasn't actually been raised at all so far. But it is going to be a long process. The families, the relatives have to just first come to terms with their own grief and start that healing process. It was a terrible, terrible realization that the plane had indeed crashed and it remains that lingering pain that relatives are still out there in perhaps 40 meters of water in that main fuselage.

They know that we still are unsure as to where exactly that main fuselage is. That just adds to the sort of mental stresses and strains and it will obviously take its toll. I'm sure it will be a very long process for many of them to recover. Of course, they will never fully recover from this. They will have to learn to live with it and they will, as I say, have professional support to help them.

But, Ana, it will become very much down to the individual on how they move on from here.

CABRERA: It's a process. Andrew Stevens, thank you. Our hearts and thoughts are with those families.

One major obstacle that has slowed down the search for the victims and wreckage is the bad weather. It's still very early in the morning in that part of the world and daylight is expected to bring yet another round of 10- to 20-foot waves. The high winds and the heavy rains forced helicopters to abandon their search before nightfall.

CNN safety analyst David Soucie is joining me now. He's a former FAA safety inspector and also the author of a new book, "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370: Why It Disappeared and Why It's Only a Matter of Time Before This Happens Again." OK, David. So, in terms of expectations, we just talked about the bad weather out there. Realistically, how much can searchers really get done at this point?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Really not a lot.

I'm hoping that -- they haven't given us as much detail this time as they did with MH370, but I'm hoping that they have actually placed some sonobuoys out there to start managing the drift. As soon as they pick up bodies, they can manage that and follow that drift and see where it goes and then pick up signals from those sonobuoys later and pick that back up after the weather passes.

CABRERA: There was some hope that sonar had in fact found the plane. Now we're hearing from the CEO in that little sound bite we just played for our viewers saying that there are in fact two places they are now looking. What does that tell you?

SOUCIE: What it indicates to me is if it is the aircraft that the aircraft had broken in two places

We don't have any details as to how far apart they are, which would tell us whether or not it broke in the air or whether it broke once it hit the water. But David Gallo even last night when they were making these reports saying we found the airplane was saying that that area has a lot of aircraft and ships that have sunk over the years.

There's a lot of debris of that type in that area. He said let's be cautious about it because it can fool you. And obviously he's been through that before and he knows how difficult it can be.

CABRERA: You have to kind of sort through what's what even.

SOUCIE: Yes, you really do. And even once you see it with sonar, it gives you that basic shape of it. And it's better than it used to be in years past, but now it still has to be identified and physically verified.

And that's why Tony Fernandes is being so careful in saying it's not been verified. And that's the way he works. He's a black-or-white man. It's,Well, this is what it is and this is what it's not and this is not what it is.

CABRERA: It would be horrible to get all of those families' hopes up in thinking that problem solved to some degree.

In terms of those loved ones and what they're experiencing as these bodies are recovered, what's next in the process? What happens now?

SOUCIE: Well, the difficult part lays ahead for them, because once their bodies of the loved ones have been returned to land, they will be asked to identify them.

Now, in my time, we didn't have DNA testing. We weren't able to do DNA testing, so it was a matter of actually having them identify at the coroner's office who they were visually. In this, I'm hoping that that part of the investigation no longer exists.

I'm hoping that they can get positive DNA evidence and avoid that, because that's the most traumatic thing, and they do not get over it. I'm still in contact with people from 25 years ago who still are struggling with the loss of a loved one.

CABRERA: It's hard for us to even talk about it.

SOUCIE: It is.

CABRERA: I can't even imagine what it's like to be in their shoes right now.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: David Soucie, thank you and stick around with us, because I know based on the clues, you say there is probably a simple theory of what may have happened on board. I want to talk more about that.

Plus, they are the fortunate ones who missed the AirAsia flight. From missed e-mails to hepatitis, hear why 15 different people did not get on the plane.

And in Times Square tonight, police are gearing up for a possible protest. We will take you there live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: While some debris of Flight 8501 has been found, a debris field really has not. In fact, here are some of the few places from the A-320 aircraft that have been located so far, a few of the objects that have been pulled out.

A blue cabin luggage, an oxygen tank, according to local reports, also an emergency evacuation slide.

CNN safety analyst David Soucie is back with me now.

I know you have a theory based on some of this debris. But first I want a little -- ask you about just the small number of people, the victims who have been recovered, what do you make of that?

SOUCIE: Well, to me, what that indicates is that the people that were in the aircraft whenever this happened, whatever it was, are still in the aircraft, because the bodies, especially by this time, have started making gases.

And I hate to be so gross about that, but nonetheless it's part of the investigation tools we use and the bodies that were free to rise to the surface would have done that by now.

CABRERA: It helps us to at least understand why we're seeing what we're seeing and why we're not seeing other things.

SOUCIE: Right. I have been debating this, what do we say, what do we -- don't say. And I have just finally decided, after talking with Sarah Bajc earlier about MH370 before I wrote that book, she said, we need to know and you're the guy who knows this stuff, so don't hold back. Tell us what you know.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Knowledge is power and helps to give them some confidence maybe.

From what has been found so far, we mentioned some of the objects, the luggage, the evacuation slide -- we're showing a few of those images here, which are hard to make out -- what do you think happened to Flight 8501?

SOUCIE: Exactly.

Can you leave that up there just for a minute? There are some key pieces here. I use a tool from the 1300s called Occam's razor. And what it's saying is that when you have a clue, you don't throw assumptions at it, you take it at its own value and then make the simplest explanation for it.

We have three things, an emergency door. The door can only be taken out and thrown out. It can't come apart unless the aircraft comes apart as well.

CABRERA: Which I know hasn't really been confirmed. But that's what we believe we're seeing.

(CROSSTALK)

SOUCIE: And we would see a debris field if it had as well.

Secondly, we have the slide which comes out right underneath that door. The slide comes out, the emergency evacuation slide. It comes out and it becomes a raft as well. It is detachable. But it does come off the side of the wing. People get out the wing and then it slides off the back of the wing. That's the number two clue.

Number three clue...

CABRERA: And that's one of the objects that have been recovered.

SOUCIE: That's correct. That's correct.

And then the other clue that we have is the oxygen tank. It's not really an oxygen tank. It's a compressed air tank. And what that does is, it mounts in the aircraft just forward of the aft cabin -- or the aft cargo door. And there's two tanks there. And what those are for, there's one on the left and one on the right and those are for inflating that tank that comes out.

So to me, it's very conclusive that something happened right there. I doubt that it was in-flight structural failure that caused that window to come out, because, if it was, we would have pieces of aircraft.

CABRERA: There would be more. SOUCIE: Right.

So, to me, what it appears happened is that the aircraft was somehow intact on top of the water, that there was attempts to get out of the aircraft after it had been in the water.

CABRERA: So, maybe there was a ditching attempt.

SOUCIE: That's exactly the way I see it.

The other clue that tells us about that is the distance from where it had its last point of contact. The point of contact, at first they told us it was six miles. And judged by that, it would be a flat spin. It would be a spiral straight down, uncontrollably. But now we find out it's 100 miles, 120 miles from where it was spotted.

If you take the 17-1 glide ratio, which that aircraft has without engine power, it would put it exactly at 120 miles.

CABRERA: Wow.

SOUCIE: So, now you put all those strings together with no assumptions, no assumptions, we put the clues together, and that's where I'm at right now.

This doesn't mean that's what happened, because as clues are added...

CABRERA: But it's what could have happened.

SOUCIE: It's even more than that. It's more of a hypothesis, because of the fact that we're not adding assumptions to it.

But what happens now is that every clue that we add, we compare against the other clues to see if it takes away from the clue or if it adds to the validity of the clue.

CABRERA: Remember when we were talking about the whole possible theory of the plane stalling. Does what we have here also go along with that theory?

SOUCIE: There's about five or -- well, there's more than that -- different types of stalls that we could talk about.

And that's just flight stalls, let alone engine stalls and other things along those lines. Before, we were talking about a deep stall and a power-on stall, meaning that you have got all the power of that airplane going and you just simply pull up and pull up and pull up until the air is just all messed up and won't hold the aircraft in the air.

The other kind of stall would be a buffet stall, which you come up to a stall and then it catches itself and it just does this stepping part. And that's what I think we have now. Before, I thought it was a deadpan stall, a deep, deep stall. But now it's got -- it looks -- indicates that it may have had glide.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Thanks for putting the pictures together for us. We appreciate it, David Soucie.

(CROSSTALK)

SOUCIE: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: CNN's Impact Your World does have links to resources that can help those affected by this disaster, so check out CNN.com/Impact.

Up next, we will take you live to Times Square. That's where police are gearing up for possible protests tonight on the city's biggest night, and our special look back at the top 10 moments of 2014 coming up in just minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Happy New Year's Eve, a time for champagne, resolutions and this year possible protests in New York, Los Angeles, Boston, Cleveland, possibly other cities.

Counterterrorism agents and bomb-sniffing dogs in fact may be circling some of the celebrations and also keeping a very close eye on any of the protesters who are demonstrating about police tactics.

Now, security is being tightened in New York, where more than a million people are expected to party in Times Square as they bid farewell to year 2014 and welcome in 2015.

Our Rosa Flores is joining me in Times Square.

Rosa, tell us what you have learned about all of the beefed-up security measures this year.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the NYPD telling CNN that they will have extra eyes and ears on the ground here at Times Square and they're going to be monitoring social media very closely.

Why? Because there's been an increase in the number of threats against the NYPD, all of this following the brutal ambush and killing of two of their own. But, Ana, the biggest takeaway is, take a look around. You can see there's a lot of revelers and what we are told is that these revelers are not going to see a difference in the experience of new year.

They are going to experience what a New Year's Eve is in New York -- Ana.

CABRERA: So, what are police doing in terms of ensuring that all of those revelers we see there packed into that very tight area, making sure they are all safe?

FLORES: Well, they have eyes and ears, like I told you, on the ground. They also have that over the air as well. And so there is a heavy presence of the NYPD. But, again, they are

hoping that that doesn't hamper what revelers are going to experience here. So, what are they doing?

Let me just introduce you to some of these folks.

Where are you guys from?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're from Oregon.

FLORES: From Oregon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arizona.

FLORES: Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Houston, Texas.

(CROSSTALK)

FLORES: I'm a Texas girl. There you go.

Where are you from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Italy. Italy.

FLORES: From Italy.

We have met people from China, Germany.

And, Ana, I have got to reveal this, because this is what New Year's Eve in New York City is all about. You buy your glasses. You buy your hats. There's somebody with -- that's right. That's right. This is what I was talking about.

Happy New Year. And you guys are from where?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tampa, Florida.

FLORES: From Tampa.

I was talking to them earlier. Let's just say that the temperature has dropped a little bit for them. But take a look at this. They're prepared. They're very smart people.

And now for the biggest question of the evening. OK, so did you plan? Do you have a contingency plan for the bathroom?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, unfortunately.

(LAUGHTER)

CABRERA: Rosa...

FLORES: That's what New Year's Eve in New York City is all about.

CABRERA: We have got to wrap it at that.

I can't believe those guys are out there in these temperatures and so early. It's a long time until midnight. Thank you.

And just a quick reminder. If you are at home counting down the new year, don't forget Anderson Cooper, Kathy Griffin, they will be live tonight in Times Square on this New Year's Eve.

Now, up next, our special CNN coverage of a look back at the past year. We count down the top 10 moments in every category, from international stories, entertainment, politics, to even the top trending moments. So, don't miss this next.

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