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Gunmen Attack Offices Of French Magazine Charlie Hebdo

Aired January 07, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And let's take you to Paris because rallies right now, these peaceful rallies breaking out all across the city and also really beyond. You have tens of thousands of people gathering for these peaceful protests holding up signs reading not afraid and they are holding right there pens, pens, symbols of freedom of speech.

All of this in response to this deadly, cowardly terror attack this morning on French satire magazine "Charlie Hebdo." We now know 12 people are dead including the publications editor and top cartoonists who made a living, you know, lampooning all religions, all religions. But it appears that this attack here is in retaliation for cartoons about Islam.

Police do know they have what they believe is the gunman's car here right there being picked up and taken away. But again, three suspects still on the loose.

And right now there's a lot of online chatter about exactly who is behind this attack. So let's begin there with Laurie Segall.

And you have been watching all this on social media. And we have to be so, so careful about all of this. So what are you seeing?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Sure. You know, I actually spoke with a group called flash point security. And what they do is they go online and they are constantly monitoring terrorist activity and what people are saying whether it's ISIS, whether it is Al-Qaeda and I ask them what are you hearing online?

And what they sent me today they sent me to a certain twitter user. They said, obviously, they can't authenticate these tweets but they said just check this out. Obviously, investigators are going to be looking at everything.

One twitter user suggesting some inside knowledge, he wrote the brothers who carried out the French Charlie newspaper attack have returned safely to their bases.

Another tweet, Brooke, he said await a pledge of allegiance from (INAUDIBLE) in France and announcing it a province from the provinces of the Islamic State.

Last tweet he said Islamic state announces its responsibility for the attacks on the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. Now, you have to take that with the grand assault, right? You know,

someone actually responded on twitter and said well, this isn't official. And he said amen to that. But the reason that these guys pointed me to him is they said in the past he's had some knowledge of insider activity.

So obviously French investigators, everyone is going to be looking on line to see if there's anyone claiming responsibility and what they can do with those claims to authenticate any of it, Brooke.

BALDWIN: As you point out, I mean, it could be so many different groups. And having talked to multiple experts, some of the course in the last two hour, I mean, it could be anyone ultimately coming forward and claiming responsibility. It really just seems too early yet.

SEGALL: Sure. But you know, on social media, this is almost the first place. A lot of these people go look because you look at ISIS and how, you know, how prominent and how sophisticated they have been with social media. You have to look at Al Qaeda magazine had put this editor who was killed on their top ten most wanted list dead or alive.

So these are -- you are looking at that post now. These are all things that these investigators are going to take into account as they begin to really try to wrap their head around this tragedy and see who could be behind it, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Lau Segall, thank you.

Let's stay on this because we can tell you that the editors and the cartoonists targeted today by these terrorists. There are certainly no strangers to controversy, raising eyebrows many, many times before with the magazine's content, even sparking being firebombed back in November of 2011 over one of the magazine's cover.

So joining me now from Paris is the "The Daily News" foreign editor, Christopher Dickey.

Cha Chris Dickey, I mean, you have spent many, many years covering Paris for a variety of publications and we keep, you know, seeing these images of people holding up these pens in Paris tonight. The Hashtag just I am Charlie. What's the sense in Paris this evening?

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, FOREIGN EDITOR, THE DAILY NEWS: Well, you know, at the center of this whole debate about Islam and radical Islam and its place or not in Europe, is the question of freedom of expression. And it's a very complicated question.

Right now people want to say we will not be intimidated. We want our free speech. We want our free press. We want to be able to parity and satirize anything and anybody without fear of violent retribution like this.

But you have to understand that the flip side of this also is related to (INAUDIBLE) anti-Islamic sentiment in many countries in this continent. We are, in fact, what they call the intolerance of the intolerant where right wingers like (INAUDIBLE) builders in The Netherlands and the tens of thousands of people protesting in Germany say that basically Islam has Islam, all Islam, has no place in European society. But we are seeing as a real division now. And it is going to be I think very fraught, very dangerous. And of course, that's exactly what is intended by terrorists when they carry out this kind of attack.

BALDWIN: That is the definition of terrorism. We know that the French president said today as we talk about this magazine knowing full well they've been targets for years, President Hollande saying that they have actually thwarted multiple attacks in recent weeks. And I know that, Chris, you have said that attacks like this, this is something Europe, this is something the United States should be concerned about in the future. How do you mean?

DICKEY: Absolutely, Brooke. I mean, you have a situation here where this is a small group of people. But it's not a lone gunman. It's not one lunatic taking his, you know, grandfather's shotgun off the wall. It's a group of men, two shooters, probably one driver, who seemed to have had significant military training and real confidence in the way they handled their weapons.

As I watched the videos from the street and the way they operated, I was reminded of the al-Shabab militants who slaughtered all those people in the shopping mall in Kenya not long ago. It's a very, very frightening spectacle. And I think it is the shape of terror to come. A few men armed with heavy weapons who go in to soft targets and slaughter innocent people. They are not always going to choose something like "Charlie Hebdo." They may choose shopping malls or any crowded place. And I think we all have to concern about that. And the only way to fight it is with better and better intelligence, but that kind of intelligence begins to infringe on people's civil liberties. So it's a really dangerous and unpleasant future that lies ahead of us.

BALDWIN: Christopher Dickey in Paris tonight. Chris, thank you.

And next we want to stay on this magazine and explore this a little closer. Charlie Hebdo, what does it stand for and what has it done, you know, historically really to draw so much attention from critics? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: "Charlie Hebdo" was a satirical magazine that had been no stranger to controversy over the years. The 44-year-old weekly made its name by fearlessly taken down politicians and public figures and religious symbols. In fact in recent years, the magazine took on Islamist extremism; mocking cartoons including one depicting the prophet Muhammad had angered Muslim groups. But the editor of this magazine who was also a cartoonist refused to back down as he explained in an interview in 2012.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANE CHARBONNIER, EDITOR, CHARLIE HEBDO (through translator): It's been 20 years since we've been doing provocation and it's noticed only when we talk about Islam where this part of Islam which raises problems in which is a minority. And when the government asks us not to do any provocation, we have the impression that three idiots who demonstrated in the streets represent all of Islam. It's the government who insults Muslims by saying that you have to take them as they are. One has to mock them using humor. Disarm them with humor and not give them credit. By taking them seriously and sending riot cops to hold them, one takes them seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to London now to our correspondent Erin McLaughlin.

And just I think it's so important for our viewers here in the U.S., many of whom are unfamiliar with this magazine, who are they?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a magazine, Brooke, that really is known for courting controversy. You know, it was launched in the 1970s and is known for poking fun, really, at all faiths. But it wasn't until it depicted the prophet Muhammad in one of its cartoons that it really landed in hot water. And Islam any depiction of the prophet Muhammad is considered strictly forbidden.

In 2011, its offices were actually firebombed in connection with one such depiction. But as you just said, Brooke, there are the times, the cartoonists refused to back down saying that their goal was to laugh at extremism but there has to be said that were many moderate Muslims who were upset or have been upset by some of these depictions as well -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: The nation seems to be galvanized by pictures of these peaceful protests, people holding up pens and online. I mean, there is huge, huge support on social media.

MCLAUGHLIN: Absolutely. Online, we are seeing an outpouring of solidarity. Many people using the hash tag Je Of Suis (ph), Charlie which means I am Charlie. And many people are making the point that they may not necessarily agree with this magazine's satire, but they certainly want to take a stand for freedom of speech.

Let me quote to you one of the tweets that we came across here. It's a tweet by Herbert Wenar (ph) who quoted Voltaire's biographer saying I do not agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

You know, another person with the twitter handle, Libya Liberty saying, as a Muslim, I absolutely refuse to apologize for this terrorist act but as a Muslim I demand justice for the victims and say Je Of Suis (ph), Charlie.

So there are members of the Muslim community trying to draw a clear distinction between the events that we saw unfold today in Paris and at the Muslim community around the world. We are also seeing an outpouring from journalists as well. The AFP newsroom which is French news agency in Paris tweeting out a picture of their journalists holding the Je Of Suis (ph), Charlie signs. And we are also hearing from cartoonists. The Australian cartoonist

David Pope tweeting out one of his creations that says he drew first. He also tweeted can't sleep tonight, thoughts with my French cartooning colleagues, their families and loved ones.

So really, what we're seeing online, Brooke, is this outpouring of grief, outrage and calls for justice.

BALDWIN: And from leaders as well. Both president of the United States and president of France both saying we must continue to defend this freedom of speech.

Erin McLaughlin in London, Thank you.

You know, CNN's "impact your world" is pulling together information on ways you can help those affected by this horrific, horrific attack. For more, just go online. Go to CNN.com/impact.

Next, you are about to hear from a witness, the first person inside that building this morning after those shots were fired and he described an incredibly gruesome scene and the escape as suspects remain on the run right now. A manhunt is under way. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We're watching right now as you seeing video of the aftermath of this cowardly horrendous attack this morning inside the offices of a controversial satirical magazine in Paris, "Charlie Hebdo."

So there is a massive manhunt under way. They are looking for at least two gunmen, three terrorists. They have one getaway car. And according to the Paris prosecutor earlier today, they jumped into another car and who knows where they could be right now. You know that there's a forensic investigation under way looking to find and capture these three individuals so they can punish them.

Let me bring in Aki Peritz, a former CIA counterterrorism analysts and also co-author of "find, fix, finish inside the counterterrorism campaign that killed bin Laden and devastated Al-Qaeda."

So Aki, here's my first question. Let me bring up a point that actually I had with a colleague, Bobby Gosh (ph) in a commercial break. He said his fear is that they will find these three individuals but that it could turn into a situation of Watertown, Massachusetts, in which they found the Tsarnaevs but not before a bloody, you know, shootout, very violent shootout. Is that a real fear here?

AKI PERITZ, CO-AUTHOR, FIND, FIX, FINISH: Certainly a possibility. I mean, for example, let's take the time now there is almost a decade ago when the Madrid bombing, when Al-Qaeda blew up a train near Madrid, Spain, and when police actually went to raid the apartment complex where perpetrators were, they blew up everything and killed a lot of people. So yes, this could be a really terrible, terrible conclusion for this. They also might go down without a fight at all because you never know how these things will turn out.

BALDWIN: What are investigators doing right now? I mean, here you have this happen in Paris. This is multiple hours ago. They were in a second car. You know as well as I do, if you travel Europe, it's very easy to go from country to country, whether it's plane, train, bus, car. What are they doing to find them?

PERITZ: Absolutely. And remember, this attack has actually happened now over six, seven hours ago. And so, where can you be in six or seven hours from the Paris metro region? You could be in another country. If you were smart you probably had a plane ticket waiting for you and you probably got on a plane and you took off.

It's another possibility that they actually might be sitting in an apartment complex in a neighboring city waiting for the police to show up and having some sort of terrible conclusion, kind of what you said before. But essentially, if these were professionals and this was a professional hit any way you cut it, they probably had an exit strategy. Now, whether that exit strategy means that they are going to go out in a ball of blaze of glory or if they sort of blended in and disappeared, it's still up for grabs.

BALDWIN: What about that exit strategy? Because, you know, anyone I talk to, they said, you know, this is clearly, they're part of a larger organization, trained, under control, calm, watching this whole thing. So, listen, I don't know if they would have already orchestrated different communities who would then take them in, harbor them and help foster their exit, but I have to imagine law enforcement are going to those different communities, correct, to try to get them out.

PERITZ: Absolutely. Absolutely. The French -- and I have to say, the French intelligence services and their law enforcement services are really top notch. And they are going to turn over every stone. They're going to shake every suspect in order to catch these fellows.

I mean, this was a terrible attack in the heart of French society especially against the media. And so, there is going to be an outcry in French society that might even bring down the government if they don't catch these people fast.

BALDWIN: Aki, stand by with me. Let me bring in Michelle Kosinski who we normally talk about the president with. She's live at a very snowy White House. But you happen to be, you know, you were in Paris, Michelle, two years ago. You interviewed this magazine editor of "Charlie Hebdo," Stephane Charbonnier and even then, he would say, he was defiant. He knew he was a target. He was defiant in the face of multiple threats.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And we heard him say recently in an interview that, you know, he said I don't have a wife. I don't have kids. I don't even have a car or mortgage. I would rather die standing up than live kneeling down. So that really encapsulates his attitude.

And back in 2012, remember, there were violent protests going on in other parts of the world. Through the Middle East, there were embassies and consulates under attack and under threat. France closed down embassies in 20 countries at the time, and in that environment is when they decided to run the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad. Because remember that that protests that was happening in that time year wasn't because of those cartoons. It was because of an American film trailer that was put out on the internet.

So in that environment, Charlie Hebdo, this newspaper put out more cartoons. So the question was OK, OK, we understand what your newspaper does. We understand the parody, but why do it now? And to him, and to his staff, that was really the point. That there shouldn't be a bad time to make fun of anything in the form of cartoons, in the form of this magazine or newspaper that isn't exactly read all over the world. And he felt like that was the time to prove his point, that you can put things out there and there shouldn't be just one group that you have to be particularly sensitive about not offending. He made the point you can make fun of Christians, you can make fun of the Pope, you can make fun of your world leaders.

BALDWIN: Which they did, by the way, all of the above.

KOSINSKI: Of course, of course. They made fun of that. But remember, the only time we really hear the name Charlie Hebdo is when they would publish from time to time and they have several times over the last decade these cartoons featuring the prophet Muhammad.

So they felt like -- and this is our point. That there shouldn't be a time when the world says you need to be careful because they just felt it was ridiculous that you would have to avoid trying to offend a particular group at a particular time.

BALDWIN: Michelle Kosinski, thank you, and Aki Peritz, thank you both very much.

Next, we mentioned a moment ago, just an absolutely stunning interview with this witness I talked to last hour who was in the building this morning in Paris, works right there, describes the moment after the gun fire and describes the gruesome, gruesome scene.

We'll talk to him after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: French police are hunting three terror suspects right now after this massacre at the office of a satirical magazine this morning in Paris. And imagine just, you know, appearing for work in the morning, moments after this -- this nightmare that this shooting leaving 12 people dead, 11 wounded.

I talked to someone who -- who that happened to, someone who was there in this building. This French journalist who works nearby was one of the first people to walk inside and witness firsthand this gruesome scene and he shared with me what he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I -- when I arrived to my office this morning to the office building in Paris we -- I saw the face of one of my colleagues who had run down the stairs and he was calling out for help and for people to gather to run up and sort of help as much as we could. So I didn't really understand what had happened. So we just ran back together to see what happened in the corridor and my office is across the hall from Charlie's office and when I arrived I could smell the very strong smell of gunpowder everywhere. And we walked in and it was obviously, a very disturbing scene to see how the bodies were on the floor.

Some people were crying out for help and someone asked us to sort of help move some of the furniture to make room for the emergency teams that were on their way and some of them were on the scene. And so, we decided to move a couple of the office tables and that's when we -- that's when I realized that there were more bodies that were under the tables, as well, people that might have tried to sort of hide from the attackers or -- you know, I have no idea -- I don't know what happened.

But -- so, yes, that's what happened. And then very, very quickly the police came in, the rescue workers came in and the place was packed with people so we just decided to withdraw to our offices and to leave room for the emergency professionals to, you know, to work properly there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As he was describing the gruesome seen he saw this morning, and I was asking him what was it like the last couple of years knowing he work so closely next to an office that had been under attack. And he said that they really were all working in solidarity as journalists and as we have seen, as witness through some of these pictures tonight in Paris and really and beyond, these thousands of people who have appear holding up these signs, that is part of what has been trending today #JeOfSuisCharlie I am Charlie, standing in solidarity, really, galvanized in the wake of this atrocities.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.