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President Obama Meets With German Chancellor; Brian Williams Under Fire

Aired February 09, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to the White House, to our senior White House correspondent there, Jim Acosta.

And, you know, Jim, when I was listening to the newser between Chancellor Merkel and the president, two things jumped out at me. One, the president was asked about a red line on Ukraine, and I didn't really hear an answer on that.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No.

BALDWIN: The other, I heard Chancellor Merkel really sort of leave the door open to other possibilities if this last effort, you know, at diplomacy with Russia fails. You were there. What was your takeaway?

ACOSTA: That was pretty much my takeaway as well, Brooke. But make no mistake. There is a disagreement here between this White House, between President Obama, it seems, and Angela Merkel.

The president wants to keep this option on the table. He wants to consider this idea of sending defensive weapons to the Ukrainians. And Angela Merkel said, once again, during this press conference, that she does not see a military solution to this conflict. She sees a diplomatic one. But you heard there, and perhaps we have to lead this to diplomatic translations here, but she said one further attempt to talk and sit down with Vladimir Putin.

She didn't say it was one last attempt or one final attempt. She said one further attempt. So the question becomes for the United States and for some impatient lawmakers up on Capitol Hill, if Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande go to Minsk on Wednesday, sit down with Vladimir Putin and the Russians continue to play games and there isn't a peace deal for Ukraine, what happens next?

There's going to be a lot of pressure on this White House to go ahead and provide those weapons to the Ukrainians and the president might not have a whole lot of reasons at that point to say, no, no matter what Angela Merkel says -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: We wait to watch and see about this further attempt. You know, another issue that came up in this news conference, Jim, was the negotiations with Iran to end its potential for having some sort of, you know, nuclear weapon. A March deadline for a nuke deal, that's fast approaching. What did the president say about that?

ACOSTA: Right. Yes, I thought it was interesting and I think it was somewhat

newsworthy, Brooke. The president was asked, could there be another extension of the deadline? We have had one of these before, so it's not an unreasonable thing to ask whether or not there would be another extension of this deadline.

And the president said pretty frankly during this press conference that if he doesn't see sort of the framework of a deal with Iran over its nuclear program coming together, he talked about, well, if there's some drafting that we have to do and that sort of thing, OK, we can go along with that.

But if the Iranians have not come to grips and presented sort of an ironclad commitment to the world that they're not going to move forward with developing nuclear weapons, then this whole thing may fall apart. And I thought it was interesting to note that, as he was saying this, there is this whole other question of whether or not, you know, what's going to happen Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, and is he going to come here to the U.S. and speak before the Congress in March?

The president was asked, are you asking these Democrats to stay away from that speech, and the president, you know, sort of delivered a jab at Netanyahu, and said, well, he wouldn't ask to come -- well, Angela Merkel wouldn't ask to come to the White House two weeks before an election, sort of a jab at Netanyahu.

And it really goes to the real fragile nature of those talks over Iran's nuclear program right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You teed me up perfectly for my next segment. That's exactly where I was going.

Jim Acosta, at the White House, thank you, sir.

To that notion, to that question about Prime Minister Netanyahu coming to speak to Congress, the press corps did have a bit of a laugh today with the president when he was asked about why he wasn't meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu during his upcoming visit to the United States. The president suggested, nothing to see here, standard protocol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a practice of not meeting with leaders right before their elections, two weeks before their elections. As much as I love Angela, if she was two weeks away from an election, she probably would not have received an invitation to the White House. And I suspect she wouldn't have asked for one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There was a little bit more to that moment.

Gloria Borger, I'm looking at your face responding to this, Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst here.

What did you see there? What did you hear?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you could look at it two ways.

First of all, it could be looked at as a little bit of a jab to Netanyahu, that that wasn't exactly the right thing to do, you shouldn't have done that, you shouldn't be going to Congress, if indeed that's what he ends up doing. But, also, you can interpret it as being a little bit more self-effacing, which is, if you look at the president's popularity right now in Germany, for example, he's taken a 22-point slide over the last year.

And you might ask yourself, if you were running for reelection, maybe you wouldn't want to be in a picture with Barack Obama. So I think he was kind of jabbing at Netanyahu and taking a little poke at himself too.

BALDWIN: Well, on that with Germany and the whole NSA spying thing --

BORGER: Right. Yes.

BALDWIN: -- let's talk about that, because the president was asked about that. And we know Angela Merkel, what was it, her cell phone, what was listened to. And then the president said, Germans shouldn't assume the worst about America. What do you sense in that exchange?

BORGER: Right. Yes, I think he seemed a little defensive in that answer, quite honestly.

Look, his popularity has taken a slide. This president has had a great deal of difficulty in trying to get NSA reforms through the Congress. The Patriot Act is due for reauthorization around June 1. And it doesn't look like the reformers are having a great deal of success, nor has the White House made it a huge priority.

So, I think that Merkel could be a little miffed still, to a degree, but he wants to say, look, you know, we're doing what we believe we have to do. Some of the things that were done in the past, i.e., tapping into her cell phone, will never happen again. But you have to understand, he was telling the German people there, speaking of the German people, you have to understand, though, what we are doing, we are doing to protect people all around the world, including your country.

BALDWIN: What about finally, just when you look at the room, Gloria Borger, and you see -- obviously, you see Angela Merkel and you see Barack Obama, and then you have members of the media.

BORGER: They like each other.

BALDWIN: They do, but then you have the front row.

BORGER: Yes. BALDWIN: Here you have them. You have them seated side by side John

Kerry and Joe Biden. Is that unusual to have them in a room like this?

BORGER: You know, in this kind of an important bilateral meeting -- don't forget, Kerry and Biden have just returned from overseas at a security meeting. And, so, I don't think it was sort of out of the ordinary, but it does give you a sense of the importance of this relationship between Germany and the United States and also a sense of the important moment right now, because what the president decides to do on Ukraine -- and, you know, both Kerry and Biden may be more inclined to supply the Ukrainians with arms than perhaps the president and Merkel.

We don't know. So I think it sort of underscores the importance of the decision that the president's going to take in the next couple of weeks or so about what the U.S. decides to do. And, by the way, he made it very clear that whatever decision he makes, he called it a tactical decision.

He went out of his way to say, Brooke, that this would not undermine, in any way, the relationship between the United States and Germany. And I think Angela Merkel made that clear as well.

BALDWIN: They did, crystal clear.

Gloria Borger, thank you.

BORGER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ahead, the parents of the American hostage who ISIS claims has been killed is making a direct appeal to the terrorist group as they go through a -- quote -- "living hell."

Plus, we will speak live with the woman, the domestic abuse survivor who shared the Grammy stage with Katy Perry. Hear what happened behind the scenes.

And just in, we are getting word that Brian Williams did an interview with "Stars and Stripes," the outlet that broke the story wide open about his Iraq embellishment. Hear what the NBC anchor said next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Got some news that has just came into us here. NBC anchor Brian Williams has gave an interview to the newspaper "Stars and Stripes." That's the news outlet that broke the story about his false statements last week. Williams has repeatedly said that that Chinook helicopter he flew in covering the Iraq War back in 2003 was hit, was attacked by RPG fire.

Last week, he apologized for the -- quote, unquote -- "mistake."

On the phone with me now is "The "Stars and Stripes" reporter who broke this story, Travis Tritten, who we talked to last week.

So, we are going to follow up with you now, Travis.

And here with me on set is CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter.

So, Travis, let me begin with you. Let's just begin with, when did you speak with Brian Williams last week?

TRAVIS TRITTEN, "STARS AND STRIPES": Right, Brooke. I just want to be 100 percent clear. This is our original interview from February 4 with Brian Williams.

And the reason we decided to publish it now is that Williams has, I guess, backed out of this appearance on "The Late Show With David Letterman." And we felt that there was a lot of interest out there to hear him in his own words really address these questions and hear his responses unfiltered.

So we have decided to put up the full audio, much of which was never published, so that everybody can listen for themselves and judge.

BALDWIN: So this was February 4. We're five days later. Why not publish it in its entirety day of?

TRITTEN: Right. I mean, we are. We are five days after. And Williams has not yet come forward and answered questions.

He's made statements on his own, but he hasn't sat and answered questions about it. So we thought this would be valuable. People can listen to it and see how he responded to the questions I think we all have.

BALDWIN: All right. Let me hit pause, because we now have turned around a sound bite. This is the conversation with Brian Williams back on February 4. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

TRITTEN: I had multiple guys tell me that they remember immediately after this the news coverage -- this was within days of it -- that you and NBC had reported that you were on the aircraft in its first -- in those first broadcasts. So, is that not true?

BRIAN WILLIAMS, ANCHOR, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS": On the -- which aircraft?

TRITTEN: That you were on the aircraft that was hit?

WILLIAMS: No, I think I -- I think correctly reported, as I did in my blog in '08 -- that's right. I was on the aircraft behind the one that was hit. It -- it was not -- because I knew we had all come under fire, I guess I had assumed that all of the airframes took some damage, because we all went down.

Also, remember, adding to the fear --

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK, wait. So, Travis, just so I'm clear, and you were the one speaking with him, he was saying, we were all hit, we were all taken down. What did he mean by that?

TRITTEN: Well, obviously, those are inaccurate statements, and if you listen to the tape, I did follow up with him, and I pressed him on this point of whether he was actually following.

And I explained to him that the sources I had told me that he was not following the aircraft that was hit, he was actually, you know, an hour -- on a different route that was an hour behind this other route. And he told me, well, this is the first I have heard of that.

And, of course, after we spoke, he went on "NBC Nightly News" and made his apology, saying that he was following the aircraft that was hit.

BALDWIN: So I'm clear, when you're talking to him five days ago, and you have him on the phone, and I hear you that you're pressing him, but still in this phone conversation, before this big public apology on "Nightly," he is telling you his helicopter was hit and it went down?

TRITTEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Brian Stelter, let me just pivot to you here, as I'm taking all this in.

And just as a journalist, it's just tough to take all this in, first and foremost. We know now that he's now -- as managing editor of the show, he's removed himself. NBC is doing an internal investigation. And it seems to me, at the time, this is before, I think, probably anyone at NBC, perhaps even including Brian Williams, knew how big of a deal this would be.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I'm struck by the fact, Travis, in your interview, you say that he hadn't decided whether to do an on-air apology or not, that he said, I don't know, I will talk to my boss, I'm open to it.

That suggests to me that, on this day, Wednesday, when you interviewed him, when you heard from him for the first time, that he didn't fully understand the ramifications or this and nor did NBC. And am I right, Travis, that it sounds like you're saying is that, even on Wednesday, when you talked to him and he's getting ready to apologize, he still had the facts wrong about what happened?

TRITTEN: That's exactly right. And he went on television with his apology with another set of incorrect facts, after I had pointed out to him that it was different from what I had been hearing.

STELTER: And that's why people are saying, Brooke, that this apology was insufficient, that it didn't fully explain what had happened.

And I also think it's noteworthy that Travis asked him about the idea that some soldiers say there was an NBC broadcast in 2003 where Brian Williams also got the facts wrong, also exaggerated. That video hasn't been able to be surfaced. You know, we haven't found it, we haven't found the transcript, but I interviewed a pilot yesterday who said that he heard Brian Williams misstate it back in 2003, and, as Travis is indicating, other soldiers have said the same thing.

BALDWIN: Travis, just quickly, before I let you go, veterans -- we spoke last week, and you said most of them who are the ones who are sort of waving the flag on his misreporting, most of them accepting this apology. Do they stand in their acceptance today?

TRITTEN: I have not spoken with any of them since, but I expect their position is mostly the same.

These group of veterans, it's a small group of guys, and they have basically the same feeling, is that they got an apology and they're more or less satisfied with that. But I think that this is probably going to create more upset among the wider veteran population, who, you know, frankly, a lot of them want to see him gone.

BALDWIN: Travis Tritten, reporter with "Stars and Stripes," staying on it, now publishing all this audio with Brian Williams from five days ago.

Travis, stay on it. Thank you so much.

TRITTEN: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Brian Stelter as well.

Coming up next here on CNN, a serious moment at the Grammys. A domestic abuse survivor took to center stage and just gave this powerful account. She will join me live right after this.

Also ahead, a family in agony, hoping that their daughter is alive after ISIS claims she was killed, they are reaching out directly to this terrorist organization. We will talk to a former CIA covert operations officer with his take on how unusual this situation is. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In the war against ISIS, life for Kayla Mueller's loved ones has become what one family friend describes as -- quote -- "a living hell."

Imagine. They're waiting, hour by hour, for any news about the 26- year-old Prescott, Arizona, native held by ISIS since 2013. ISIS claims, without offering any proof whatsoever, that Mueller was killed last week in a Jordanian airstrike.

But U.S. and Jordanian officials are skeptical, at best.

Mike Baker, let me bring you in, a former CIA covert operations officers and now president of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm.

Welcome, sir.

MIKE BAKER, PRESIDENT, DILIGENCE LLC: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you first about this family. The Mueller family has asked ISIS directly to contact them. How unusual is that?

BAKER: Well, you know, for the past year-and-a-half or so now, the negotiations for hostages, not necessarily U.S. hostages, but from other countries, it's been sort of a haphazard affair.

And that's been part of the problem is, there is not consistent liaison lines, if you will, for how to ensure that a hostage is both alive and, you know, in a position that you're dealing with someone who can actually negotiate their release.

So, the fact that there may be this effort to try to get this direct contact wouldn't be unusual in the scheme of things, based on other negotiations with other nations' hostages.

BALDWIN: What about these reports, Mike, that -- and this is -- I'm reading foreign policy -- that there are some people within the U.S. government who rejected some military plans to help locate Kayla Mueller. It was actually the family that rejected the government's plans.

BAKER: Right.

BALDWIN: There was some sort of special ops task force idea, and the family really wanted to focus on negotiations instead. They feared this rescue mission, if it were to happen, would be too risky.

If you're the U.S. government, how do you weigh what the family's wants are vs. your intelligence on the ground?

BAKER: Extremely difficult.

First of all, it's extremely difficult to kind of assess credibility of intel in an environment like Islamic State. So that part of it's tough enough. And then you layer on top of that a family that's saying, no, no, you know, we don't want you to mount a rescue operation. We view it as too risky.

You know, they look at what happened with the other three U.S. hostages that have been killed and said, OK, we don't believe, necessarily, that this can be done, you know, to her advantage. So we would rather -- then they look at -- again at what other nations have been doing -- we would rather go that route.

And incredibly difficult -- you can imagine, for the parents, for the family's perspective, incredibly difficult, but from a procedural position for the U.S. government, for the U.S. military, it's extremely tough. And unless you can sit there and say, we have absolute, you know, confidence in the intelligence that we have got related to the location of the hostage, the ability to mount a rescue attempt, yes, there's a lot of pressure being put on that situation from the family. BALDWIN: Which, it sounds like, according to you, that's next to

impossible to be that confident.

We know ISIS is all about propaganda. There is now this latest video today showing this British journalist, we have seen him before, John Cantlie, this is a hostage from 2012, reporting from Aleppo. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN CANTLIE, ISIS HOSTAGE: Hello. I'm John Cantlie.

In the last film in this series, we're in a city that has been at the heart of the fighting since summer 2012.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I mean, obviously, I use air quotes on "reporting" because he's clearly forced into doing this.

But the thing that gets me, Mike, is he says, this is the last in the series, the last film in the series. What do you hear when you hear that?

BAKER: Well, it's really tough to assess at this point. You can't trust anything that, first of all, the Islamic State is saying. We know that already. You know, that's not rocket science.

You -- at the same time, you know, we're having a really difficult time in assessing everything from intel for these hostages to intel for the result of our air campaign, as an example. And, so, this latest situation with Ms. Mueller, the U.S. hostage, when the Islamic State comes out and says, look, she died in the latest round of strikes by the Jordanian air force, nobody really takes that as credible.

At the same time, you know, you can't really back it up with HUMINT, with human intelligence on the ground, because we're lacking so badly in that. And, again, that's one of those advantages. People talk about, well, why do we need -- why do we need to be more aggressive? Why do we need to put boots on the ground?

Well, in part, because everybody understands, the military certainly understands, we're not going to win this with an air campaign alone. The problem is, nobody has the will to put people on the ground. Unless we have our own people or our allies in forward operating positions, then it's going to be incredibly difficult, even just to get accurate intelligence on the results of our air campaign.

BALDWIN: And, at the end of the day, you have a mother and father still wondering, wondering about their daughter. They have no proof. Mike Baker, thank you very much.

BAKER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let me turn now to the Grammys and the performance that had no music, had no dancing, but could have an impact that goes way, way beyond the charts.

It happened when the awards show took a serious turn and focused on the problem that impacts more than one in four women in the nation, domestic violence. The show then featured a survivor who reportedly was sold into sexual slavery at the age of 7 and then later became a victim of an abusive boyfriend.

She is Brooke Axtell. And as you will see, even though she went after the president and before Katy Perry, she held her own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: It's on us, all of us, to create a culture where violence isn't tolerated, where survivors are supported.

BROOKE AXTELL, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SURVIVOR: My name is Brooke Axtell,Well, and I am a survivor of domestic violence.

(APPLAUSE)

AXTELL: My empathy was used against me. My compassion was incomplete because it did not include me. Authentic love does not devalue another human being.

(APPLAUSE)

AXTELL: Authentic love does not silence, shame, or abuse. If you are in a relationship with someone who does not honor and respect you, I want you to know that you are worthy of love.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here she is, activist, artist, survivor.

Brooke Axtell joins me live from Los Angeles.

I have to say, I mean, between the president and Katy Perry, you held your own. Your voice was strong. Woman to woman here, I salute you.

AXTELL: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: I understand, Brooke, that you submitted the spoken word, this piece to the Grammys, and they did not change a single word of yours.

Tell us more about your message.

AXTELL: That's right.

I had the initial conversation with the producers. And they asked me to submit a piece to review. And, after that, they sent it to the White House