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George Bush Advising Jeb; Four Killed in Atlanta Plane Crash; Terror Threat Level Raised. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 08, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:05]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You see the chart here and the different covers and levels. Let me walk you through what's happened.

So, today, the threat level jumped from Alpha, which means there would be a possible threat of terrorist activity, to Bravo, which means that threat is now increased and predictable. Keep in mind, these changes here, this is not tied to a specific, credible threat, but all of this is happening as the FBI is warning that ISIS is recruiting hundreds, possibly thousands, of Americans online.

Let's go to Rosa Flores first, who's live this afternoon at the U.S. Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst in New Jersey.

Rosa, I see you're by the gate. I imagine there's more I.D. checks, more vehicle checks. Tell me what else to expect.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, military families are being asked to be vigilant, to keep their eyes and ears open for anything suspicious, Brooke.

And they're asked to report that to their proper authorities. Why? Because they want to make sure that they have all of those eyes and ears looking for anything that could be nefarious. Now, let me give you a lay of the land, because this is the entrance to this joint base.

And you see the entrance and the exit. And so you see cars going in. There's a checkpoint. Now, we can't get too close for obvious reasons. We can't show you exactly what these new protocols under Bravo will look like because we don't want to give it all away. But I can tell you that sometimes you will see canines, perhaps, perhaps these military personnel checking I.D.s more frequently.

But here's the key. All of it is random. It's not based going to be on a certain time of day or X, Y, and Z. It's going to be random because that's going to how they're going to respond to any sort of random attack. Now, why? Why are we seeing this at this point in time?

A couple of things that we're learning from authorities. First of all, there could be thousands of people in the United States that online are following ISIS. They could be sympathizers. And then there's something else, Brooke, that we learned. And that is the release of about -- the release of information online of about 100 U.S. military personnel.

That's one of the other reasons why, in military installations across the country, they have increased this security threat to Bravo, like you mentioned. This -- it could be Normal, Alpha, bravo, Charlie, Delta. We're at Bravo because -- because they feel that it's appropriate.

Now, what does this do? Well, this allows them to activate resources a lot quicker, to make sure. Again, Brooke, at the end of the day, this is to protect military personnel, U.S. resources, and assets that could be used to respond to any sort of threat here in the United States -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. Rosa Flores, thank you.

Let's get a little bit more perspective.

I have got Jonathan Gilliam with me here in New York, former Navy SEAL and former FBI agent. Also, I have Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, a CNN military analyst.

So, gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

And, Colonel Francona, let me just begin with you. You have been on, I'm sure, many, many of these bases. And I'm just wondering, first, your reaction to all of this, the threat level changing. And how do you 100 percent safeguard a U.S. military installation?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I will take the second part of that first. You don't.

BALDWIN: OK.

FRANCONA: There are always going to be chinks in the armor. There are always going to be ways to get on these installations.

Remember, these installations are huge. They're like small cities. They have gates and they have got fences, but any of that can be defeated if somebody really wants to get in, so, just more vigilance, not just at the gates, not just controlling the access, but on the posts as well.

They have churches, museums, gymnasiums, schools, housing areas. So, it's a large area. It's difficult to detect anybody that wants to get in and do this. And as you were talking earlier, some of the early guests, these people are radicalized online, so we're not going to see an attack like we did with the al Qaeda attackers. We're seeing people that are attacking from within.

So this is a big problem. And one other facet we also have to look at is, it may not be an intruder. It might be somebody already on the base. ISIS is trying to radicalize not only civilians, but people in uniform as well.

BALDWIN: That's frightening to think about. I have been on a number of these bases, and I'm just wondering, from

your perspective, I think of bases, it's all part of the community, right?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER U.S. NAVY SEAL: Sure.

BALDWIN: So it's military and nonmilitary, but you're all living, eating, breathing together. So, how do you think this message is being received for families of military members and in the communities?

GILLIAM: The problem I have with the way the DOD does force protection now, when I was at SEAL Team Four, my C.O., who later went on to be Admiral Winters, really just had force protection in his mind all the time.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What does that mean?

GILLIAM: Force protection, it's protecting your forces.

BALDWIN: Right.

GILLIAM: It's having standard operating procedures and a mind-set that really keeps the troops safe.

And he used to have us back in what he would call combat park at the team, so that we were always at the ready. What I don't like about what the DOD is doing here is that they're announcing that they're raising this threat level.

[15:05:06]

I don't understand why they have to do that, because you brought up a very good point. The surrounding area around a base is really the biggest soft area of a base. Military members live right off base. The companies and the businesses that are right off base are huge targets, because, look, just like in Garland, Texas, they didn't kill anybody, but they have caused everybody to talk about that.

That's a successful attack. If they go and hit a family that's a military family or they wait until people come out of the gate or they hit a business across the street, that's a successful attack. That's where my real fear in all this is.

BALDWIN: I keep thinking about the communities around these bases, just knowing them.

GILLIAM: Right.

BALDWIN: Colonel Francona, do you agree with Jonathan, though, how the DOD is handling this, the fact that they made an announcement?

FRANCONA: Yes.

BALDWIN: What do you think?

FRANCONA: Well, yes, I do agree. And here's the problem. Here's what's going to happen.

Now, you're going to see increased security at these bases. They're going to try and randomize it. But everybody knows now that the military is on a higher state of alert. So, if I'm a terrorist, I'm a radical sympathizer, I'm a jihadi, I want to cause a problem, these people have to transit to and from work.

Most military people don't live on the post. They live in the surrounding community, as Jonathan says.

BALDWIN: Right.

FRANCONA: So they have got to go to work. They have got to shop. They go to restaurants. They do everything else just like normal people.

But everybody knows who they are. We used to have little stickers on our cars. They have done away with that, thank goodness. But these people become targets off the post. So if you harden the military installation and someone wants to make an attack, where do they go? They go to the softer area.

So, if someone is dead set on making an attack, they're going to attack something. And I think we have just told them not to attack the base. Attack the soldiers while they're off duty.

BALDWIN: So, potential soft targets. The other question then would be as far as intelligence goes. If you have these -- if we're hearing from the director of the FBI saying possibly thousands of Americans in touch with over social media members of ISIS, and you're monitoring all these threads online, how can you -- how can you tell which ones could be real, viable threats vs. just talk, bluster?

GILLIAM: Let me just say two things, first of all, that I think everybody needs to concentrate on, critical areas and critical times.

BALDWIN: OK.

GILLIAM: That -- from a soft target perspective, that's what we need to look at. What areas are very -- do people gather, and what times do they gather?

Now, when we talk about recruitment and these thousand people, here's the reality. Just like awareness is the number one tool to defeat a terrorist attack, the number one way that we're going to actually find these people is in the Muslim community. The Muslim community is going to have to step up, and they're going to have to start policing their own.

And when they see something that's unusual, they need to tell everybody.

BALDWIN: I was reading about Detroit this morning, as an example, of some people are concerned and worried, and they have to do exactly what you're talking about.

(CROSSTALK)

GILLIAM: We're not at war with Muslims.

BALDWIN: No.

GILLIAM: We're at war with fundamental Islamic Mohammedism. That's what these people believe.

And people want to say they're radical Muslims. They are a fundamental belief that is 1,400 years old. They killed 1.5 million Armenians 100 years ago, and they're doing the same thing now. It's just that they have the ability to go all around the globe. The Muslim community, I want to see them step up and really help us solve this problem.

BALDWIN: I'm sure they will. I'm sure they will.

Jonathan Gilliam, and Colonel Rick Francona, gentlemen, thank you very, very much.

Want to get now to Baltimore, as we're now hearing -- and I want to listen in -- Freddie Gray's family -- this is the attorney for Freddie Gray's family speaking out. This is in the wake of the announcement that the DOJ, Department of Justice, will be investigating what happened to him. Take a listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

BILLY MURPHY, ATTORNEY FOR GRAY FAMILY: ... reason to believe that these problems can be solved, but first they have to be identified honestly and truthfully, fairly and impartially.

Measures have to be developed that will eliminate these problems, and there has to be either a buy-in by the city police department or a decree imposed on that department to make sure that the days of the blue wall of silence are gone, that the days that police are afraid to tell the truth, even if it means implicating a fellow officer, are gone, that the days of race-oriented policing are eliminated, or that improper searches and seizures are no longer tolerated, improper arrests will be a thing of the past.

All this can happen in Baltimore, and we can a model for the nation because of this investigation.

Reverend Bryant.

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE CHURCH: Yes.

It's often said the journey of a million miles starts with one step. We believe this is the first step in the right direction. This is, in fact, a completely different Baltimore than one week ago.

A week ago, the National Guard was here, as well as barricades anywhere within an eight-block radius. We are expecting that this is going to be a peaceable weekend. We want to really commend attorney general for making this making this the first step in her new office.

[15:10:10]

But we really believe that this is going to be the prototype of a national issue. When we began marching some 11 days ago, it began to spiral out into other cities across the country, from Philadelphia, New York, Miami, so that while we're glad that it starts in Baltimore, we know that the problem far exceeds the boundaries of this city.

We're hopeful that the Justice Department is going to do its due diligence, and we pray that Attorney General Loretta Lynch will report not some of the findings, but all of them, so we can begin the healing process. She was absolutely correct in stating what Senator Mikulski stated, that the relationships between the citizens and the officers are fractured and severed, is what Loretta Lynch called it.

And we pray that this week begins the healing process. We stand in alignment with the family, hoping that we're able to get closure, but also hope that we can start a new chapter, not just for Baltimore, but as African-Americans, how we perceive the criminal justice system.

MURPHY: One last thing. We thank the mayor for inviting this investigation.

It was a courageous thing to do, given that she has so many competing interests to balance. And we hope that everyone will stand behind her during the duration of this investigation to make sure that it is done properly and with the full cooperation of the city and the police department.

BALDWIN: It was just a couple days ago that the newly confirmed attorney general in this country, Loretta Lynch, traveled to Baltimore and at the urging of the mayor -- and you can hear this lawyer, Billy Murphy, representing this case on behalf of the Freddie Gray family, and that was their reverend, Jamal Bryant, pleased that the Department of Justice is now stepping in, and will be investigating the patterns and practices of the Baltimore City Police Department in the wake of Freddie Gray's death.

But also keep in mind there's been a separate investigation launched by the DOJ as well in the wake of a "Baltimore Sun" investigation into all these -- I think it was $5.7 million in settlements involving some of these cases in the city. They said that was a lot, so they're looking into that as well.

We're going to stay on Baltimore, because, coming up next, we will talk live with a prominent prosecutor there about what the nation should expect involving those six police officers currently facing those criminal charges.

Also developing right now, a plane crashing this morning on a major American highway. We are now learning who was inside. I will talk live with the driver who saw it happen and took this video. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:17:18]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The nation's new top prosecutor says she will take up Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake's request to investigate the city's police department. I'm talking about Loretta Lynch. She announced just today that the Justice Department will indeed look into whether officers in Baltimore engaged in patterns or practices that violated the Constitution and federal law.

The investigation stems from the arrest of these six officers now charged criminally in the death of Freddie Gray. We just heard from the Gray family attorney moments ago.

As for Loretta Lynch, she had just taken office nearly two week ago when some protesters, furious over Freddie Gray's death, set fires and rioted there in the city in Baltimore. She said today, sitting there watching it on TV herself, it was tough to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: And I would have to say that my first reaction was profound sadness. It truly was. It was profound sadness for the loss of life, for the erosion of trust, for the sadness and despair that the community was feeling, for the frustration that I know the police officers were feeling also as they tried to encourage peaceful protest, but then had to deal with violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Baltimore defense attorney and former prosecutor Andy Alperstein is back with me this week.

Andy, welcome back.

ANDREW ALPERSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: So, I want you to just explain to our viewers, when we talk about the DOJ looking at patterns and practices of the Baltimore City police, what exactly does that mean?

ALPERSTEIN: So, they're going to do an investigation that's much wider than the Freddie Gray situation.

They might look at what happened with Freddie Gray, but they're going to look at practices and patterns, policies. They're going to look at the regulations of the department. They're also going to look at what really happens on the street. And they're going to use specific examples of that, like specific conduct, such as what happened with Mr. Gray, to determine whether or not there's policies and practices that need revision.

And they're going to look specifically at certain areas. They're going to look at whether there's a pattern of excessive force. They're going to look at whether there's a pattern of discriminatory practices. They're going to look at whether or not there's a pattern of false arrests, illegal statements, search and seizure, things of that nature, you know, from a wider, wider perspective. That's what that means.

BALDWIN: Let me move back to -- we just played the sound from Loretta Lynch reacting, and her two words, profound sadness. That's how she felt when she was watching a lot of this, the fires, the looting, unfold on her TV set.

You're there in Baltimore. I was asking you earlier this week. You have obviously law enforcement friends who are worried about the chilling effect. You're plugged into the community. What are you hearing? How fixable is this problem there?

ALPERSTEIN: Well, I'm an optimist. I think everything is fixable.

[15:20:02]

The question first is whether or not there is a wide-scale problem. Now, look, if you see what happened here, there's clearly a problem. You need to look no further than the result to identify that there's a problem. And what we're going to do about it is another thing, another story. Now, this investigation, sure, it could lead to criminal charges, not only in the Freddie Gray situation, that is, federal criminal charges, but they could look at other situations.

But more likely, and what's happened across the country, is they do this long-term investigation, they make recommendations on policy changes, but they also often will have a court order that will monitor this. They will tie federal dollars and grants to performance and compliance with it.

And the objective is to hopefully put pressure on the managers, who then put pressure on the troops on the way down to comply with whatever these changes are. And we see the top people saying what we as citizens would hope they would say, which is, we welcome the investigation, bring it on kind of thing.

On the street, I think there's a little anxiety with the police. You would expect that. I think that's what it's supposed to do. So, we will see where it goes. Obviously, we don't know what they're going to find yet. So it's a little hard to say exactly where we will wind up.

And as Mr. Murphy I heard saying earlier, said, well, we're going to make Baltimore -- a model destination for policing, and that would be wonderful. One of the things that I expect will come out of this, by the way, has already been talked about here, is these body cameras. And that's a -- that's a -- that will be an interesting twist on things.

BALDWIN: Yes. We even heard the president mention that as far as mandatory nationwide.

Andy Alperstein, thank you so much in Baltimore today with your perspective.

Just ahead, Jeb Bush says his brother, yes, the former president, is one of his top advisers on foreign policy. Hmm. Let's talk about that with Jake Tapper coming up.

And one of the men who helped President Obama win the White House just helped David Cameron win big in the U.K., and now hear which presidential candidate he's about to help for 2016.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:25]

BALDWIN: Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Tony Orlando. He was on the stage. That was when Mike Huckabee announced he wants to run for president. That happened earlier this week.

We're going to loop back to that, by the way, but let's talk politics from the American strategist who just helped David Cameron pull off a surprise landslide victory in the U.K., to Jeb Bush's unexpected revelation that his brother George is one of his most important foreign policy advisers.

Let me bring in the host of THE LEAD, my colleague Jake Tapper.

First to you, sir, the notion that you have Jeb Bush, who's someone now reintroducing himself on the national stage, saying his brother is his top foreign policy adviser, how do you think that's going to play with voters?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I suspect the way it's been characterized will not play particularly well, especially with people who did not like President George W. Bush, which not only includes many liberals, but conservatives.

The context of the -- of Jeb Bush's remarks is significant. This was a closed-door meeting with a bunch of conservative big-money folks, many of whom were big -- still are big conservative supporters of Israel. And he was asked about James Baker, James Baker, of course, former adviser to his father, George H.W. Bush, who he had -- and he had been critical, Baker, of Prime Minister Netanyahu.

So, that's the context. How much does Baker inform you on the subject of Israel? And that's when Jeb Bush, I'm told, invoked his brother, George W. Bush, whose remark -- who's regarded by conservative Israel supporters as a big supporter of Israel.

BALDWIN: OK.

TAPPER: So, that's the context of that.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: But the bigger issue, of course, Brooke, is the specter of George W. Bush and how big a shadow will he cast on Jeb's campaign. That remains a big issue. BALDWIN: What about the name Jim Messina? He may not be known much

outside of the Beltway, but he's this campaign wizard. He helped Obama get into the White House, just helped David Cameron. And now he has been tapped to help Hillary Clinton. What is his -- what do you think is his secret sauce?

TAPPER: He's very data-driven. That's been my experience with him, dealing with Jim Messina, both when he was both on the Obama campaign in '08, in 2012, and then also there was a period where he was a deputy chief of staff at the White House. He's somebody who looks at the numbers a lot.

He's said since Cameron's victory that this really was about projecting a positive and optimistic view of the economy of the U.K., and that's where Cameron really outperformed. So, if I had to guess, I don't know a lot about what he did behind the scenes, of course, but looking at the data is really where his strength is and where he -- where I'm sure Hillary Clinton will take advantage of him.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Watching all these different candidate rollouts, just straight up, Jake, which one do you think has had the best one so far?

TAPPER: I think, if you had to pick who's had the best rollout so far -- and, obviously, there's still a number of candidates who have not officially thrown their hats into the ring.

BALDWIN: Correct. So far.

TAPPER: Marco Rubio has gone from barely a blip in the polls to really very, very high. He's -- I think he's -- in one poll, I saw he's second place in Iowa, second place in New Hampshire.

And there's -- there was a national poll where he was the only candidate who defeated Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical matchup. So, in terms of how big a jump he made, I think he had a really good rollout. He did a lot of interviews, including here on "THE LEAD," answered questions, and I think impressed a lot of people with the rollout.

Now, just to be fair, he's a young senator, and maybe he just surpassed expectations. But, I think, empirically, he's had the best rollout so far.

BALDWIN: OK. Jake Tapper, we will see you at the top of the hour on "THE LEAD." Thank you very much, my friend.

TAPPER: Thanks, Brooke.