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Suspect In Emanuel AME Church Shooting Has Been Captured. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 18, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:32:50] JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: I'm John Berman here in Charleston, South Carolina. Behind me is the Emanuel AME Church, Mother Emanuel as it is called. A healer in this community for more than 150 years. We now know the names, the identities of all nine of the victims killed here last night. Six women, three men, four, four of those killed were reverends here. They were sitting in a bible study.

The perpetrator, Dylann Roof, the suspect, he walked in and sat with them for more than an hour before he opened fire and killed nine people, leaders in this community.

Joining me now is a leader in his owned right, the Reverend George McKain was a pastor here in South Carolina in Charleston. He is now a national director for public affairs for the AME Zion church.

And you were friends of the Reverend Clementa Pinckney who was the lead pastor here at mother Emanuel?

REV. GEORGE MCKAIN II, NATIONAL DIRECTOR FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS, ZION CHURCH: Yes. He is a fine out seemingly young guy. (INAUDIBLE). When you talk about future leaders, he was the leader for tomorrow today, had a pulse on the community, heart for the people. He was classmates where he came from down river, people were at school when I was (INAUDIBLE). Just a different kind of guy, you know, not after the big things but a humble servant, the kind that really makes a difference.

BERMAN: The kind of a guy this city needs. The kind of guy that any city needs.

MCKAIN: Any city needs.

BERMAN: You know, President Obama indicated that a shooting of any kind is always a tragedy, but shooting inside a church, a shooting that kills four reverends, four religious leaders, breaks your heart.

MCKAIN: Yes, it does. You know, one of the first things that came to my mind last night was what happened when Reverend King's mother was shot in the church in Atlanta. I thought about the four girls in Birmingham. I heard that(INAUDIBLE). Just the scenario that you would come to the church. But more than that, that you'd sit in the bible study and I think some of what he's going through and we pray for him as well, you know, he may have done some major damage, he did major damage but we still have to remember he is a soul as well. And so, we consider that but to realize that he sat through there, there's a possibility he came looking for some help. Who knows. He had an agenda, yes. But deep on the inside, the psychological and spiritual needs still went unmet.

[15:35:06] BERMAN: He said he was there to kill black people. I was talking to (INAUDIBLE) a former state rep. He said you can't be black inside a black church, what does it say?

MCKAIN: Right. It's a challenge. And you can't get any deeper to the heritage than mother Emanuel. When I think about mother Emanuel, I think about this dark AME tradition that (INAUDIBLE). I think about the prayer bands that have come down through the generations that a little old lady (INAUDIBLE). That stirs the spirit and revives the hope. Not only (INAUDIBLE) but just hope to make it today.

BERMAN: And I hope is a key and togetherness is a key. And mark in Denmark, (INAUDIBLE) was one of the founders of this church behind me. Most people here that I have spoken to and we spoke through a lot here and talked about coming together, talk about healing and talk about getting through this but there was also anger. I want to acknowledge who is in her (ph). There have been people shouting that they are very angry at the situation. What's your message to those who are angry?

MCKAIN: Well, I think with some of those who are angry, first of all, some are angry at themselves because they want to make a difference before became the problem again. I think that, you know, St. Francis (INAUDIBLE). That makes you accept the things I cannot change and everything I can't change, but give me the courage to change the things I can and learn the wisdom between the two.

It's important for us to get over the anger. We can't let Charleston - and I really believe Charleston, when I came here from Jersey, I was though that Charleston, it is holy city. And there is something different about Charleston. This is yet the holy city. I don't care how much hell was raised in it or around it, how much danger or challenges have come, this will not become like the only cities and the tragedies of recent days. This city I believe is going to trust in god and raise a community back in one. I believe that we'll get through this. Charleston, right here, all of the universities in the city, the travel industry, I think it comes together for a reason and just sure and hopes to nurture the body. I believe the hope here is going to nurture the soul of another because they are going to watch us deal with this even as Mayor Riley said last night, someone will watch us deal with this in a whole different manner.

BERMAN: I think you need a lot of that too in the coming days to help heal this city that I think they are eager for healing in here. Reverend, thank you so much.

MCKAIN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Ana?

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: All right. Thanks, John. We've talked so much about the history of this church and significant

in a much bigger picture when it comes to civil rights and social justice. Mother Emanuel AME does house the oldest black congregation south of Baltimore. Its ties to historic black churches is well known including to that of Atlanta legendary Abenito Baptist Church once pastored by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

And joining me now is the senior pastor of Dr. King's Baptist church, the Reverend Raphael Warnock.

Thank you so much for joining us, sir.

Dr. King we know spoke at Emanuel. Mrs. King carried out a protest for workers there reaching symbolism and civil rights obviously. Places of worship are supposed to be a safe, sacred ground. Given Emanuel AME's history, how has this affected you?

REV. RAPHAEL WARNOCK, SENIOR PASTOR, EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH: Thank you so much for having me. This is a tragic day, not only for the people of Charleston but for freedom-loving people all over the world. It's an assault on the faith community. And so we stand with our sisters and brothers in Charleston. We feel very much connected to their story. Their story is ours. It was 41 years ago this month that Martin Luther King Jr.'s mother Alberta Williams King was shot and killed while playing and singing the Lord's prayer on a Sunday morning at our sanctuary. She and another of our deacons. A deacon lost their lives in the sanctuary. And so our hearts go out to the people of the Emanuel church as their sanctuary, the solace and peace was disrupted by the unspeakable.

CABRERA: President Obama said this is particularly heartbreaking to hear about the violence in churches but that these kinds of attacks, unfortunately, are not new in the history of black churches, as you mentioned. Did you think something like this could happen so many years after Dr. King left us his legacy of peace and nonviolence?

WARNOCK: Well, it's shocking when it occurs but tragically we've seen this kind of assault on houses of worship before. In the 1990s, there was a rash of church burnings throughout the south and across the country. We all know the history of the civil rights movement and violence in my own church in 1974.

But it's not just churches. Yesterday or last night it was an AME church but we've seen this kind of assault against our Muslim sisters and brothers and mosques and temples. And people who believe in peace and justice must speak out passionately, whether it's in a church, a mosque or a temple. And an attack against one of us is an attack against all of us. We have to stand for peace not only in this tragic moment but we have to bear witness against the kind of hate speech that has become too prevalent in American politics. That gives cover to just this kind of tragedy, this kind of cowardly act.

[15:40:32] CABRERA: Right. And unfortunately, we're seeing too many of these acts unfold before our very eyes in this day and age. And we have a tweet I want to read to you from the King center as it was unfolding this morning. We heard from them. And it says, as the Charleston police deemed this horrific act, a hate crime, we pray vigorously that this person's hate doesn't cultivate more hate. I want to ask you, do you have any concerns that there is going to be some kind of a ripple effect that this incident may have?

WARNOCK: Well, we've seen this kind of violence before. And the African-American church is a living testament to the ways in which black people, when assaulted by terror and violence and hatred, have not, by enlarge, responded in kind. The African-American church was born as a kind of independent institution really to bear witness to the fact that we are all one, one blood, God has made all nations to dwell on the face of the earth.

And so tonight, in that tradition, we are hosting a multi-faith, multiracial service of prayer and memory at the Ebenezer Baptist church at 7:00 p.m. Imams will be there, rabbis will be there and in a real sense we're standing up to say all of us are AME tonight. We must respond with -- to hatred with love and we cannot curse the darkness. We have to continue to light new candles.

CABRERA: And you just talked about how your church in your community is responding there to try to shed light versus letting this darkness encompass everything. Is there a sense of heightened alert now given what happened?

WARNOCK: Well, you know, the bible says watch and pray. That's a certainly pope saying in an African-American church. So, yes, we are aware of what is going on. Our church has armed security. We have off-duty police officers who provide security to our church.

But I want to say that we are witnesses in America a dangerous cocktail of racism and other forms of bigotry, mental health issues and unfettered access to guns at the behest of the gun lobbying and the most extreme voices in America. And every now and then this crisis emerges at a church, a school, a mall and we say we need new gun laws and then we go back to business as usual.

In memory of those who lost their lives last night, it seems to me that we have to have a real serious conversation with ourselves. Dr. King said that if our principle is an eye for an eye, that leaves everybody blind. We have lots of guns in America. We aren't savor as a result of it. We need reasonable gun reform and that's why I'm working along with other faith leaders in Atlanta to continue to push for this.

CABRERA: We also heard the president in fact bring up gun control as well as he addressed the nation regarding the tragedy today.

Reverend Raphael Warnock, thank you so much for your time and being part of the broader conversation.

WARNOCK: Thank you so much.

CABRERA: We really appreciate it.

Up next, we'll head back to Charleston, South Carolina, as we continue to cover the massacre that happened there late last night. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:20] BERMAN: All right. John Berman here in Charleston, South Carolina.

Behind me is the Emanuel AME church, mother Emanuel as it is called. More than 150 years old. One of the oldest African-American churches in all the south, an influential church and it was at a bible study, a meeting here at this church last night where a gunman opened fire and killed nine people, six women, three men. Four of those killed were religious leaders in their own right. Four people with the title reverend in their name.

Such a tragic, tragic loss in the religious community, it's a small community. Its leaders -- many of them know each other. And we're joined right now by the bishop Harry Jackson from the hope Christian church in Maryland.

And Bishop Jackson, I'm also joined by Don Lemon who is here with me in Charleston, South Carolina. Just got here.

Bishop Jackson, thanks so much for being with us. And to give you a sense of how connected the church community is, there's someone not in your congregation, someone you were close to all the way up there in Washington, D.C., in Maryland, with the aunt of someone who was supposed to be at this meeting where so many people were killed last night.

BISHOP HARRY JACKSON, SENIOR PASTOR, HOPE CHRISTIAN CHURCH: Well, yes. And one of my leaders was supposed to be at the meeting. She's a little bit elderly and she put the wrong date on her calendar. Had she been on time for the meeting, she would have died in the shooting.

And it is a close-knit community, the community of faith. But I believe, guys, that we can see healing if we treat this event like a 9/11 or Columbine. It's time for me to say to my white brothers and sisters in the church world, that this is an American problem of race and all of the tensions. And I wrote an article last week that said there would be rioting in some anger is somehow not assuaged.

So we need black, white, Asian Christians to come to funerals staff an outpouring of love in the city of Charleston. We've got to point the way that we want to live the way that Reverend Pinckney lived. He was a reconciler, he was an adviser, he was involved in the community, and we need to be likewise.

[15:50:39] BERMAN: Yes. And I looked at Don right there when you mentioned 9/11 and Columbine, because there's been a discussion of whether or not we can call this --

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Whether or not we should call the this terrorism. And by my estimation, bishop, this is terrorism because I think that this guy was promoting an agenda. And I think his agenda was white nationalism. And I think for as far as him walking into the church, if what they say is correct, that he said, you know, I want -- you're raping our women and you are taking over our country and I'm here to shoot black people. That's ethnic cleansing. That is terrorism.

JACKSON: It is, Don, I think you're absolutely right. I think all Americans should be outraged at this moment. We must also understand that it shows that the problem does extent to the new generation. If a 21-year-old can have this kind of vitriol, this is an endemic national problem. And I don't want to blame any community. I want to say it's time for all of us to work together.

And in our region up here in the greater Washington D.C., Baltimore area, we're going to have to set down and bring business people to the table as well, and they've got to be part of the answer creating jobs and economic opportunity in our urban communities. This is an opportunity for us to eradicate racism, as we understand it on our watch, and if we don't take this moment, we're going to see a lot of the fabric of American community absolutely split apart. Don't you agree?

BERMAN: You know, I spoke to a high school classmate of this shooter, we don't need to use the shooter's name more than I have to, but the schoolmate who said he didn't appear to be violent, he didn't appear to be the kind of person who could pull this off. But yes, he use racist language when he was in high school and they didn't think anything of it.