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Candidates Embrace Flag Removal after Hedging; Joyce Mitchell's Husband Speaks Out; More than One in Four Americans Have No Savings. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 23, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:31] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

A defining moment for South Carolina and its Republican Governor Nikki Haley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: We're here in a moment of unity in our state without ill will to say it's time to move the flag from the capitol grounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Haley's actions having an impact beyond her state providing cover for 2016 candidates who have struggled with the issue, among them Scott Walker who initially said that this wasn't the time for a political debate. He tweeted though, quote, "I am glad Nikki Haley is calling for the confederate flag to come down. I support her decision," end quote.

And while Jeb Bush touted his action to move the flag from Florida's capitol while he was governor, he stopped short on calling on South Carolina to do the same but now he says "Kudos to Nikki Haley and all the South Carolina leaders standing with her for doing the right thing."

So let's talk about this. Joining me now S.E. Cupp, a conservative columnist. S.E. -- welcome.

S.E. CUPP, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: Hi.

COSTELLO: Hi. So why the sudden change of hearts for so many of the men running for president in 2016?

CUPP: Well, it's not a sudden change of heart. As you just pointed out, Jeb Bush fought more than ten years ago to have the confederate flag removed in Florida. I think those two particular examples, Jeb Bush and Scott Walker, for governors they're very reluctant always to get involved in the business of other governors' issues.

Let me just say what a proud day it is for my party. I think you are looking at Nikki Haley, the face of the new Republican south, a Republican south that refuses to stand by and allow symbols of racial division to fly under the guise of heritage or history. It's flanked by black and white Republicans and Democrats who agree and then was followed by a number of southern Republicans who also called for the same thing.

Dylann Roof, who perpetrated this terrible tragedy that prompted this swift action wanted a race war. And what Nikki Haley is telling him is, "Not on my watch. You're not going to get it." And anyone who doesn't think that this is a cause for celebration and progress even though not a solution by any means but progress, is really just looking to continue to exploit this tragedy for political gain.

COSTELLO: I absolutely agree with you. I guess I'm just asking why those Republican candidates didn't do it before Nikki Haley did?

CUPP: I agree.

COSTELLO: I mean I know what Jeb Bush did in Florida and that's fair but he didn't come out and publicly condemn this and speak out strongly about it.

CUPP: Again, again, one small point is for governors, and Mike Huckabee could fit in this example, too, as a former governor -- for governors they're very reluctant to weigh in on the business of other states. I don't think that that's a great excuse. I think a leader who is asking for your vote to lead the free world should have a very clear opinion on these kinds of issues and should be unafraid no matter where they fall on this to voice that opinion.

I think for Republicans there's been in the past resistance to want to be seen as kowtowing to the latest political correction. This, however, is not a new political correction. This has long been a divisive symbol that people have been arguing about for a long time.

I will point out I hope that Hillary Clinton gets as many questions on the confederate flag as the Republican contenders do given the fact that her husband celebrated Confederate Flag Day while governor of Arkansas and signed a bill allowing for one of the stars on the Arkansas flag to celebrate the confederate states.

So I know it was a long time ago, but the issue is resurrected now. And I would love to hear more of her opinion on it.

COSTELLO: OK. I'm sure we will be hearing it. I'm sure S.E. Cupp -- don't worry.

I want to bring in Marc Lamont Hill right now because, of course, the South Carolina legislature, they're going to have this -- I guess they're going to have a budget meeting, but it probably will turn into something more. Maybe they'll begin debate about taking the confederate flag down --

MARC LAMONT HILL, HUFFPOST LIVE: Of course, they will.

COSTELLO: -- from the grounds of the state capitol there.

I just interviewed a state senator, a Republican, who told me the flag should at least be taken down during the Reverend Pinckney's funeral because his body will lie in state on the grounds --

HILL: You can't do that. I mean I agree that that should happen, but if you concede that the confederate flag is an enemy to our ability to heal during this moment, you're conceding that the confederate flag is the problem. So they'll never do that.

The issue though is should we have a conversation about this? In the midst of health care, immigration, foreign threats, domestic threats. Is this our biggest issue? It shouldn't be.

We should all concede that this is a bad idea, it's a relic of a racist past. It's America's version of a swastika for God's sake. It's our job to get rid of this and move on.

COSTELLO: For good and not temporarily.

HILL: Forever. Yes.

COSTELLO: And S.E., you don't disagree with that, right?

CUPP: No. You know, I was thinking exactly the same thing that my friend Marc just said. I was raised in the north, and so I have a completely different perspective on the confederate flag than my southern colleagues do.

I was raised to think that it was a symbol of hatred. It was. It was exactly like a swastika to me in my childhood, and I was shocked when I visited the south and saw it so prominently displayed, not just on flags but on merchandise in Wal-Mart, for example. And as you know I'm sure, Wal-Mart just said they're removing confederate merchandise from their stores.

[10:35:10] But it's almost anachronistic for someone like me who grew up in the 80s in Boston to go down to the south today and still see the confederate flag flying. And I have been taught by a lot of my southern friends that it really isn't just a symbol of racism, but for so many it is, and it has to go.

HILL: S.E., I guess that's why I wish Republicans had been more sort of proactive in criticizing this as opposed to waiting for there to be a national controversy and a massacre and to sort of punt and say we'll let the states decide or it's more complicated than that, to me that's a cop out.

And I agree Hillary Clinton should answer this not because her husband celebrated the flag but because she's running for president. I think though that Republicans in some sense have been dishonest about this and Democrats have been able to hide from the issue because no one was asking them about it.

CUPP: Marc, why wouldn't you -- look I think your criticism is fair. I will point out again Jeb Bush did this ten years ago before a tragedy.

HILL: He did. CUPP: To get rid of the flag in his state but why wouldn't you, Marc,

celebrate this moment as I agree not a solution. There are so many other things we need to be talking about, including race, but as a moment of progress and a moment where you see Republicans and Democrats in South Carolina coming together to have a conversation from a single point.

Why wouldn't you take this opportunity to celebrate this as a moment of progress?

HILL: Because it's not really progress, as President Obama said the other day. It's not just about public politeness. It's not just about symbols, it's about structures and it's also about ideology. So yes, I'm excited that this thing is going down, but the fact that they have a mindset that made them only willing to do it when it was politically expedient, the fact that that exists means that we're not going to get at the deeper issues.

Politicians don't have feelings. They have interests. And if this only works because their interests converged with our interests that's not enough to change the deeper structure of racism in America.

CUPP: But if we don't start from somewhere Marc --

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there.

CUPP: -- if we don't start from somewhere like today, a moment of agreement, we'll never have that deep conversation --

HILL: We're not agreeing though. But we're not -- we're agreeing the flag needs to come down because it's bad for business. That is the most cynical way to think about race.

COSTELLO: I don't think that's all.

CUPP: I don't think that's why Nikki Haley is taking the flag down.

COSTELLO: I don't either. I have to leave it there though -- I'm sorry. Marc Lamont Hill, S.E. Cupp -- thanks to both of you. I appreciate.

CUPP: Thanks.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM.

The net tightens in New York and communication could be a big problem in the search for those two escaped convicts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:41:44] COSTELLO: For the first time we're hearing from the husband of Joyce Mitchell -- she's the prison worker accused of helping two convicted killers break free. In an exclusive interview with the "Today" show, Lyle Mitchell says he believes his wife was manipulated by both men. He claims she got cold feet and backed out of a plan to drive the getaway car after Matt suggested she drug her husband, Lyle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, MSNBC HOST: At what point did she decide she couldn't go through with that?

LYLE MITCHELL, HUSBAND OF JOYCE MITCHELL: She didn't say. She said she turned down the plan. She said earlier I realized I messed up and I loved you, and she said I had to -- she said I couldn't do it.

LAUER: But you just said something interesting. You said she realized that she got in too deep and she loved you. It sounds like before that realization, that epiphany, she was ready to move on.

MITCHELL: Could be. But she said -- it's like a fantasy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Like a fantasy, he said. In the meantime, authorities are scouring a wooded area about 25 miles away from the prison after authorities found DNA from both inmates inside a burglarized cabin. They're also combing through hotel guest records in the area.

And as you might expect, right now those search crews are up against a number of challenges including dense forest, bad cell service, and the possibility Matt and Sweat might be listening to police radio communications.

Let's bring in former NYPD detective Michael Sapraicone. Welcome -- Mike.

MICHAEL SAPRAICONE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Hi Carol. How are you?

COSTELLO: I want to talk about Lyle Mitchell first. You listened to the entire interview with Matt Lauer. When you listen to that what goes through your mind as an investigator?

SAPRAICONE: You feel sorry for him first of all -- not Lauer, but you feel sorry for Lyle. You just say how naive are these people? How are they not seeing through these things, you know? They were manipulated and how does he not understand that? How do you think that you weren't being used or your wife wasn't being used?

COSTELLO: Supposedly these inmates wanted to drug him and possibly kill him, but for what reason?

SAPRAICONE: Well, I guess if Joyce was really the only person they were dealing with, ok, I guess they figure Joyce is going to pillow talk. Joyce is going to talk to the husband about something at some point. If they get rid of the husband all they have left to do is get rid of Joyce. And I would imagine once they got the vehicle from her, that was their next move. They weren't taking her on a joy ride around the country.

COSTELLO: Something else interesting that Lyle Mitchell said, he said there was no sexual relationship between his wife and these inmates, just a few kisses exchanged. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: And they'd give her a little attention, she said. It went too far. He tried to kiss her a couple times. She said no, and she said that's when he started threatening her a little bit on things.

LAUER: One of the other headlines, Lyle, that came out was that your wife, Joyce, had had a sexual relationship with one or both of these inmates.

MITCHELL: Absolutely not.

LAUER: Did you ask her pointblank?

MITCHELL: Absolutely. And she swore on her son's life and her son I never, ever had sex with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:45:00] COSTELLO: Swore on her son's life. Your thoughts?

SAPRAICONE: Well, of course, none of us were there. Were they just friends? What was the relationship? I'm a little bit awed with those kind of relationships. What was the purpose? Were they just good friends? Was she baking them cookies? What were they doing? What was the point of the relationship?

COSTELLO: Allegedly she was smuggling them hamburger meat so that they could --

SAPRAICONE: -- which is a whole another story.

COSTELLO: -- which also seems strange to me that you could hide tools inside frozen hamburger meat. And then somehow smuggle them into the cells. I guess these men were able to cook in their cells because they're in the honor prison.

SAPRAICONE: Well, that's an issue in itself. It's two killers. How do you become in the honor prison? How do you ever become in the honor prison -- you know. I guess there is reform and we have things like that, but how do we allow that to happen? How do we allow these people to manipulate the prison itself, and that's what's happening, you know. That's what happened.

COSTELLO: Ok. In your estimation, supposedly they've narrowed the search, the noose is tightening they say because of this DNA found in this cabin. Will it be much longer do you suppose?

SAPRAICONE: I would hope not. I would imagine with the bloodhounds and how close they are now, and there's always something the police hold back a little bit. So we know about a little DNA, we know about maybe they saw them Saturday. But they may have other things that they're not going to release because you don't want to get that information out there where they might hear it. But I would imagine they've only traveled 20-something miles in 18 days. I'm sure they're not monitoring radios unless they brought chargers with them in their pockets, and I'm sure they didn't. So I would think we have got to be close at some point.

COSTELLO: All right. Michael Sapraicone, thank you so much for joining us.

SAPRAICONE: You're welcome -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it. I'll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:51:07] COSTELLO: A little money news to share. Are you financially prepared if an emergency pops up? Chances are you're not and that is scary. CNN Money's chief business correspondent Christine Roman joins me now. I'm sorry I stumbled over your title.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN MONEY CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Why am I smiling if this number is so bad?

COSTELLO: I know -- exactly.

ROMANS: It's 29 percent, Carol, have no savings whatsoever. I mean they're one leaky roof away from financial ruin. 29 percent of Americans according to bankrate.com have no savings whatsoever. That's the highest since they've been doing it. But guess who is saving? Guess.

COSTELLO: Hopefully millennials.

ROMANS: They are. Millennials are the best savers.

COSTELLO: I just took such a wild guess.

ROMANS: Young people under 30 are saving money. They're turning out to be good savers probably because they grew up watching their parents really struggle so they're saving their money and overall financial security is rising. So I see a real paradox, a pocketbook paradox if you will in these numbers.

Look at this. Job security -- getting better, Carol. Net worth people said, they feel better about their net worth. They're more comfortable with their debt. Their overall financial situation is improving.

So you have this tale of haves and have-nots. The have-nots, there's a big chunk of them and they have no savings. Everyone else is feeling better about things. And women are feeling more -- their financial security outpacing men at this point.

COSTELLO: Really?

ROMANS: Women and millennials are feeling good about money.

COSTELLO: Come on, men of the world, what's happening?

Christine Romans, thanks so much.

This week the CNN series "THE SEVENTIES" focuses on the Vietnam War. President Nixon wanted peace with honor while the troops in the field just wanted to go home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vietnam -- cavalry initiating new men.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little song.

The day after the initiation, five men came back in body bags.

NEIL SHEEHAN, AUTHOR: By the 70s, the U.S. Army in Vietnam had been essentially destroyed. Every time we tangled with the Vietnamese, we were getting killed, and there was no end to it. So you got what amounted to a state of individual mutiny in the U.S. Army.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is senseless. Walking down the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to walk down there. That's it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to move out and they're going to get left behind or I'm going to take the point and they can follow me if they want to and it's that simple. We got a job to do. We're going to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just going to refuse to do it because you may be in jail but you won't be dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're supposedly withdrawing, right? And well I figure since we're going home, why don't we just sort of take it easy. Don't go out looking for trouble. Maybe sit down. If they come to us, we'll fight, but going out and looking for trouble and wasting more lives for just time's sake, to me it's just absurd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people coming over here now, they're a lot different than they used to be. Like World War II type people or the old Vietnam people. It's the Woodstock generation coming to Vietnam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Wow. The war that defined a generation this Thursday on "THE SEVENTIES" 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking some top stories at 58 minutes past.

Protesters will gather in front of South Carolina's state house in moments to call for the confederate flag to be taken down from the capitol grounds. They plan to chant the words "take it down". South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley will ask state lawmakers to heed that call. Lawmakers will meet later today to debate the issue. And GOP candidate Donald Trump agrees with those protesters. Here he is speaking moments ago at a golf course in Virginia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I think they should put it in the museum, let it go. Respect whatever it is that you have to respect because there was a point in time and put it in a museum, but I would take it down, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Also in Virginia, the state's Democratic Governor Terry McAuliffe has begun the process to remove the confederate flag from specialty license plates in the state. He calls the (INAUDIBLE) unnecessarily divisive and hurtful to too many of our people.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

[11:00:00] "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.