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James Holmes Trial; President Obama Speaks Out; Republican Debate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 07, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Whether or not gas was used, Button says he and his wife and friends didn't notice the break-in as it was going on and that all of them are shaken by the events.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: And, Poppy, we do have to keep in mind that burglaries in that area in Saint Tropez are something that do happen again and again. It's something that we have heard from the police. However, it's never really been substantiated that gas was really used -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much.

It's 3:00 Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow, in today for Brooke Baldwin.

Donald Trump steals the show, last night's GOP presidential primary debate the most watched in history. Front and center, the reality television host and CEO. The GOP front-runner joined nine other candidates on stage as 24 million of you tuned in for a record-setting prime-time showdown.

And a showdown it was, right from the very first second. While another seven took the stage in an earlier debate yesterday evening, most of the presidential hopefuls found a way to generate at least some momentary buzz. Only one, though, set off a firestorm simply by raising his hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Is there anyone on stage, and can I see hands, who is unwilling tonight to pledge your support to the eventual nominee of the Republican Party and pledge to not run an independent campaign against that person?

Mr. Trump.

(BOOING)

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS: You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.

(LAUGHTER) KELLY: Your Twitter account...

TRUMP: Only Rosie O'Donnell.

(LAUGHTER)

KELLY: No, it wasn't.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to have to earn this. Maybe the barrier -- the bar's even higher for me. That's fine.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don't know. I didn't get a phone call from Bill Clinton before I jumped in the race. Did any of you get a phone call from Bill Clinton? I didn't. Maybe it's because I hadn't given money to the foundation or donated to his wife's Senate campaign.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How is Hillary Clinton going to lecture me about living paycheck to paycheck?

TRUMP: With Hillary Clinton, I said be at my wedding and she came to my wedding.

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Hillary is the candidate, which I doubt, that would be a dream come true.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you're sitting in a subcommittee, just blowing hot air about this, you can say things like that.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't trust President Obama with our records. I know you gave him a big hug, and if you want to give him a big hug again, go right ahead.

KELLY: Go ahead, Governor.

CHRISTIE: And you know -- you know, Senator Paul? Senator Paul, you know, the hugs that I remember are the hugs that I gave to the families who lost their people on September 11.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Joining me again on the program, Tim Pawlenty, former governor of my great home state, Minnesota.

Thank you for being with me, sir.

TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: Good to be with you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Let's talk about last night's debate. Who comes out on top?

PAWLENTY: I think people who had really crisp performances and good performances and took a step forward include Marco Rubio, John Kasich. I think Chris Christie did well.

I think Donald Trump took a step back. You can't be mean. You can be entertaining, but you can't be mean and his attack on Megyn Kelly and not responding well those comments about women I think set him back. And then one other thing about him, he didn't do his homework. You can only talk about China and Mexico so long. You got to come back and talk about other issues or people will start to drift away from a substance standpoint.

HARLOW: It's interesting. When he was asked a few weeks ago how he was preparing for the debate, he said, I'm not a debater. I don't do this. I create jobs. I don't debate.

So, interesting to point that out. You said on the program on this show yesterday, you said -- you posed the question sort of on dealing with Trump, how do you wrestle a tornado? How would you have wrestled Donald Trump last night?

PAWLENTY: I think the questions that were posed to him, are you willing to support the eventual nominee and are you willing to support the Republican Party and their nominee and not run as independent, I think that was a step back for him. And, again, the response to Megyn I thought was a step back.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: As a fellow candidate, how would you have taken him on?

PAWLENTY: I think you can do one of two things.

If you are going to wrestle a tornado, you either let it pass and hope it doesn't hit you or with Donald Trump, there is value in taking him on, but that could boomerang. So, I think there was room for somebody to take him on directly, particularly substantively on issues. And they chose for the to do that.

HARLOW: Do you think somebody should have taken him on directly on his response to Megyn Kelly, on some of the women's comments, the comments on women?

PAWLENTY: Well, I think he hurt himself. I'm not sure somebody had to take him on further.

But I think he really hurt himself by not being prepared substantively. And, number two, if he made those comments about women, they are terrible. Those are really terrible comments. And one way to handle that after the Rosie O'Donnell funny line, at least the crowd thought it was funny, was to say, I shouldn't have said those things or apologize or to say they were inappropriate.

That would have been a better way to handle it. It's not fatal to his campaign, but I think for a lot of people who are possibly looking at him, I think are going to take a step back or a half-a-step back.

[15:05:03] HARLOW: And he didn't walk away from those comments and he didn't

say, I never said that or apologize from them. What do you think that does to the party, though? The women's vote is so critical. What does that do to the broader Republican Party?

PAWLENTY: We will have to wait and see what the data says.

He's been able to almost rise above all of the controversies in the past and nothing seems to hurt him. But I think it's going to accumulate. I think he would be well served at this point to stay entertaining, stay bold, stay authentic, but go back and study up, get more broad and deep on more issues.

And then for things he has said that are really offensive and out of line, he should just acknowledge them and say he shouldn't have said them. I think he would have been better served and would be better served if he took that approach.

HARLOW: You said Carly Fiorina, who was in the earlier debate, the only woman on stage in terms of the candidates in both of the two debates, she may have been the overall winner. Why?

PAWLENTY: Well, she's terrific. I thought she just really shined through in that undercard debate. She deserves a place on that main stage even if they have to stack them vertically like the hold "Hollywood Squares" show.

But she deserves to be on that main stage. She did fantastic, she was sharp, informed, knowledgeable, aggressive, bold, but doing it all under control. I think she really deserves a spot on the main stage next time.

HARLOW: Here's the thing. When you look at Carly Fiorina, right, in terms of experience, she's got the experience like Trump of running businesses, right? She was a former CEO of Hewlett-Packard.

At the same time, she was ousted, a lot of public criticism of her role there at Hewlett-Packard. She oversaw 30,000 layoffs at the company. And we heard Trump, and the four bankruptcies his company has filed brought to light in the debate last night. That is something she's going to have to face, has faced and it is an uphill battle for her, don't you think?

PAWLENTY: Yes, all of these candidates have some baggage or some limitations. Nobody is a perfect candidate.

You outlined some of the things that would come back and confront her in race. She acknowledges that. She's got, by the way, a compelling life story, incredible life story, starting as a secretary or an assistant in the company working her way up through corporate America to a CEO.

But, yes, she had tough times at Hewlett-Packard. I think she could explain that and acknowledge that and still do quite well as a candidate. They all got some warts. They all got some baggage. HARLOW: I want to talk about Jeb Bush's performance. Right? No big

missteps. No saying that was there. But a lot of the reaction has been, he didn't excite us, he didn't wow us, he didn't present himself as a candidate that says, yes, I have this and I can carry us the end, even though he's a candidate that super PAC by far has raised the most money, over $100 million, and he has got a very famous name.

What's your assessment of his performance last night?

PAWLENTY: I think he treaded water. I don't think he advanced his cause. I don't think he hurt his cause. I think part of his strategy is to play the long game here with the most resources, let some of these other, more inexperienced candidates stumble or be vetted or have their rise and falls and just to attrit the race in a way that favors him.

But if you're a front-runner and somebody who will viewed as one of the most serious candidates, at some point, you have got to have some momentum and I think he had a tough couple of weeks and frankly probably just treaded water during the debate last night in terms of not advancing and not regressing.

HARLOW: Then what does he have to do in the next Republican debate September 16 right here on CNN? What does Jeb Bush do?

(CROSSTALK)

PAWLENTY: Yes, I think for Jeb Bush and for Scott, they did OK. They did good. But they are going to have to find another gear. I think the people who did particularly well were Marco Rubio. I think John Kasich had a solid performance.

I think Chris Christie had a decent performance. The rest, I think the country is going to look at the rest of those candidates through the lens of, do I really see them as president, do I see them in the Oval Office, do I see them as a commander in chief? I think you see that with Jeb Bush, Walker, Kasich, Christie and Carly.

But beyond that, I think it's an open question.

HARLOW: Governor Pawlenty, thank you very much.

PAWLENTY: OK. Thank you.

HARLOW: And as I mentioned, the next Republican debate will be right here on CNN Wednesday evening, September 16.

It looks like Donald Trump does not want the debate to end. Right now, Twitter is full of a lot of things that he's said in the wake of the debate, tweeting in the middle of the night about some of the moderators and more in the presidential debate.

At 4:00 a.m., this tweet went out. "I really enjoyed the debate tonight, even though the FOX News trio, especially Megyn Kelly, was not very really good or professional."

Let's talk about it. Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent, host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES," is with me.

First, the numbers, they just came in, in the last hour; 24 million Americans tuned in to see that night. What do those numbers tell us?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I have spent 11 years covering TV ratings. I have never seen anything like this.

HARLOW: Wow.

STELTER: These are eye-popping numbers, Poppy.

For comparison sake, let's go back to 2011.

HARLOW: Sure.

STELTER: FOX also hosted the first primary debate also on a Thursday night, three million viewers.

The biggest primary debate of 2012, eight million viewers. Big TV shows, like "The Walking Dead," big dramas, big comedies might be lucky to get 15 million viewers. The biggest football season of last season opening night, 24 million viewers.

HARLOW: Wow.

STELTER: We're talking about one of the biggest TV events of the year last night.

And I think it's all thanks to Donald Trump.

[15:10:00]

HARLOW: I was just going to say, is this thanks to Donald Trump? You think yes.

Here's the thing. In an odd way, does he actually help the party by bringing more viewers to the table to hear from them? I'm talking about someone like a John Kasich, for example, or someone like Carly Fiorina, who wasn't even in the same debate, but more people were into politics last night because of Donald Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: One observer pointed out on Twitter that more people watched the debate last night than actually voted in the GOP primaries in 2012.

HARLOW: Wow.

STELTER: But to your point, maybe these debates are going to create even more interest in the entire process.

That would be a positive attitude towards it for the Republican Party. Here's the negative or here's downside for some of the candidates. We had seven candidates on the happy hour on the 5:00 p.m. stage. Now the gap between them and the top tier is even higher, because if you think about how many people saw Christie, saw Kasich, saw -- some of the folks just barely made it on to the top 10 stage. You think that was a huge advantage for them and a huge disadvantage for people like Rick Perry.

HARLOW: So Donald Trump very clearly skipped being on FOX this morning, right? And when you look at what he's said about FOX News, he says basically they had it out for him.

STELTER: Yes, very unusual behavior for a candidate.

One of the rules as a candidate, people say you do not attack the moderators, you do not go after them. The reviews for the moderators has actually been very positive. All I have seen from journalists, including from journalists who rarely say nice words about FOX, has been that Megyn Kelly and Bret Baier and Chris Wallace did a very strong job, asked very pointed questions.

But we are hearing from Trump and his supporters a whole lot of anger, even boycott calls against FOX, because they think the questioning of Trump was unfair. They think Trump had a very tough time, was asked very tough questions, whereas some of his competitors got an easy pass. I think the bottom line is, if you're the front-runner in the Republican Party, you're going to be asked tough questions on that debate stage.

I thought the moderators did a very impressive job.

HARLOW: Yes, so did I.

STELTER: But that split out there between journalists and media types vs. Trump supporters is very interesting and it's going to become an issue I think in the next days and weeks. Trump has always been a media critic of sorts. He loves taking whacks at the press. Now he's taking a very big whack at FOX News and of course we will see how FOX responds.

HARLOW: The numbers are just incredible.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: They are. And of course CNN's debate and all these debates, the debate is now the biggest -- this debate cycle is now the biggest show of the fall.

HARLOW: Yes. And you're going to talk about it a lot on your show.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: On Sunday.

HARLOW: Sunday morning. All right, Brian, thank you very much.

Donald Trump, again, live tonight on CNN with Don Lemon, a special hour 9:00 Eastern time. You will not want to miss that.

Next, a top Senate Democrat comes out against the Iranian nuclear deal. That is after President Obama's hard push. Coming up, CNN's exclusive interview with President Obama on the nuclear deal, what he says about those who oppose it.

Also, the jury in the James Holmes trial deciding whether if he should be put to death or not. Straight ahead, I will speak with a mother and father, Sandy and Lonnie Phillips, who lost their beautiful daughter Jessica in that Aurora movie theater shooting three years ago -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:15]

HARLOW: A big blow to the White House push to sell the Iran nuclear deal. It comes from Senator Chuck Schumer, a very powerful leader in the Democratic Party. He says he will not only not support the deal. He will fight it when it comes up for congressional vote next month.

The White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest saying just a short time ago his opposition is disappointing, but not altogether surprising. This comes as President Obama reacts to criticism that he may have gone too far in his attacks on Republicans who oppose the deal. He compared them to Iranian hard-liners. The president made no apologies for that comparison when he sat down for an exclusive interview with our very own Fareed Zakaria.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: In your speech at American University, you made a comparison. You said that Iran's hard-liners were making common cause with Republicans.

It's come under a lot of criticism. Mitch McConnell says even Democrats who oppose the deal should be insulted.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I said is absolutely true factually. The truth of the matter is, inside of Iran, the people most opposed to the deal are the Revolutionary Guard, the Quds force, hard-liners who are implacably opposed to any cooperation with the international community.

The reason that Mitch McConnell and the rest of the folks in his caucus who opposed this jumped out and opposed it before they even read it, before it was even posted is reflective of an ideological commitment not to get a deal done.

In that sense, they do have a lot in common with the hard-liners who are much more satisfied with the status quo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Fareed Zakaria joining me now.

Let's talk about for the president, do you believe this is a president more defiant than you have seen him?

ZAKARIA: He was defiant. He was, dare I put it, he was very happy and willing and eager to engage on the subject.

He feels that he has the facts, the arguments. He's willing to go point by point. And he, I think, feels very strongly that this is the best course for the United States, for Israel, for the peace of the world. So he really wasn't willing to give...

HARLOW: At all.

ZAKARIA: To yield at all, yes, yes.

HARLOW: You spoke to him about Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu, and asked him, you know, have you ever seen something like this from a foreign leader inserting themselves into a debate in this country?

Netanyahu coming here and addressing a joint session. What did the president tell you on that front?

ZAKARIA: Well, he was careful.

I said to him, have you ever seen a head of government before interject themselves into an American debate? And he said, well, I'm going to let you ask President -- Prime Minister Netanyahu all these questions, and then he paused and he said, but in my recollection, it's never happened.

[15:20:05]

So he clearly feels it is odd. I don't know if he would consider it inappropriate, but certainly he considers it unusual. But then he went on to reiterate why he thought this deal was very good for Israel. And there are, you know, generals in Israel who say the same thing. Of course, they get drowned out because Prime Minister Netanyahu has the big mike.

HARLOW: Sure.

Does he believe though that he can change Prime Minister Netanyahu's mind?

ZAKARIA: No. I think that -- he could he hopes he could persuade other Israelis and other Israeli leaders over time.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Right.

ZAKARIA: This is me reading into it. I don't think he thinks he can do anything to change Prime Minister Netanyahu's mind.

They have very tough relations, I would say. It's both personal, but it's also substantive. They substantively look at the world very differently. HARLOW: Yes. Chuck Schumer, Senator Chuck Schumer coming out with a

very thoughtful response, even if you don't agree with it or you agree with it, saying he commends the president on all the hard work into the deal, but lays out point by point why he opposes it and why he will work against it when it comes up for a congressional vote.

Here's part of what he wrote -- quote -- "Because I believe Iran will not change, and under this agreement it will be able to achieve its dual goals of eliminating sanctions while ultimately retaining its nuclear and non-nuclear power."

Politically, does a powerful Democrat, second in line to lead his party, does him coming out with this opposition perhaps give those other Democrats that are on the fence the push they may need to come out and oppose it?

ZAKARIA: You know, for senators, there's an odd asymmetry here, which is the people opposed to the deal are much more strongly opposed to it than the people who are favor of it.

For Schumer, imagine his situation. If he supports the deal, the president of the United States calls him and says thank you and that's it. But he's going to have enraged a very powerful set of constituents, people who have been lobbying, people who have been taking out ads, people from whom he raises funds.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAKARIA: He could end up with a primary opponent, who then gets well- funded. For him, the costs are very asymmetrical. And I think other people will face that same dilemma, not quite in the same way.

But Cory Booker faces precisely the same dilemma. I think what the president hopes is that people will understand, look, if the issue is eliminating sanctions, if that is what you're worried about, the sanctions were put in place by the rest of the world to bring Iran to the nuke table to get a deal done, which the rest of the world thinks is great. They have all unanimously supported. Those sanctions are going away anyway.

HARLOW: Right.

ZAKARIA: That's the part I think people don't understand. Very interesting briefing that took place. "Foreign Policy" reported on this by the ambassadors of the other countries negotiating with senators.

This is the Chinese ambassador, the Russia ambassador telling the senators, look, the sanctions are going to go away because we put these sanctions in place to get this deal.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Right. Right.

ZAKARIA: We're comfortable with this deal. If you guys don't go along, the United States, this sanctions regime is going to erode anyway.

HARLOW: Give us a tease to why we should tune in to your exclusive interview, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" Sunday morning. What is the other key thing that stood out to you the most speaking with the president on this?

ZAKARIA: Well, one of the things people wonder about is, can you trust the Iranians?

HARLOW: Yes.

ZAKARIA: And are there divisions and things?

And I said to him, can you trust a man, Ayatollah Khamenei, the supreme leader of the country, who on his Twitter account posts a likeness of you with a gun pointed at his head? You want to make a deal with this guy?

HARLOW: Don't tell us what he said.

ZAKARIA: And he had a good response.

HARLOW: I believe it.

Fareed Zakaria, thank you very much.

You will not want to miss Fareed's entire exclusive interview with President Obama this Sunday, 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. Eastern only right here on CNN.

Coming up next, a jury is deciding right now if the movie theater gunman in Aurora, Colorado, James Holmes, should be put to death. And we will speak with the parent of his victims, Jessica Ghawi, about what they said in court. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:23]

HARLOW: A Colorado jury is now deciding if James Holmes should live or die. Last month, a jury found him guilty of killing 12 people and injuring 70 others in that Aurora movie theater massacre three years ago.

Before deliberations began yesterday in phase three of the trial, jurors heard story after story of heart-wrenching loss from the victims' families, including from Ashley Moser's family. Her daughter Veronica was 6 when Holmes murdered her. And Ashley herself lost her unborn child and her ability to walk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you different after the murder of your daughter?

ASHLEY MOSER, MOTHER OF VICTIM: Very different. Just deal a lot of with depression and anxiety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us more about that.

MOSER: I just -- I don't know who I am anymore, because I was a mom when I was 18. And that's all I knew how to be. And -- and now I'm not a mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Jurors also heard from the loved ones of this young woman, Jessica Ghawi. She was only 24 years old. And she was an aspiring sports reporter.

Joining me outside the courthouse, Jessica's parents, Sandy and Lonnie Phillips.

Thank you both for being here.

SANDY PHILLIPS, MOTHER OF VICTIM: Thank you for having us, Poppy.

LONNIE PHILLIPS, FATHER OF VICTIM: Thank you for having us, Poppy.

HARLOW: Sandy, for those who did not see what you said in the courtroom this week, tell us what you said, what was most important for you to convey.

S. PHILLIPS: You know, when you're up on the stand, you don't remember what you say.