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Referee Tackled; Refugee Crisis; Kim Davis Released. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired September 08, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: So, what's the tick-tock? When do we think we will hear from Kim Davis? Do we know?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Actually, Kim Davis has already come out and already spoken. It was really very low-key. This took place not at a podium, but actually behind the podium.

It was a CNN crew that was there and I'm told by Alexandra Field that essentially she looked rather shaken, definitely overwhelmed. She was there with her attorney who was there also with Mike Huckabee, and she was asked, will she be going back to work? It was implied that, yes, she will be.

It sounded like it might be a day or two. And then she was asked if she had changed her mind in any way and she shook her head no and said she had not. So that was the end of it. She has then left. So clearly all of this has been very, very overwhelming. She even looked a little bit teary, according to witnesses.

This is quite an ordeal that she's been through, a sudden release that many had not expected and now the next question is where does this drama go and does it get resolved in one way or another or does she end up back here? We just don't know.

BALDWIN: All right. Hopefully if Alex Field and crew were there, and were rolling, we'd love to get that turned around so we can get Kim Davis, as brief as it possibly sounded, on CNN, Martin.

So the question is, when she returns to work, as you're saying, maybe the next couple of days.

Guys, let's throw the tweet up from Governor Mike Huckabee. As we mentioned, he was just inside meeting with her before she was released. He obviously took a picture with her and tweeted this. "I was honored to meet with #KimDavis, a woman of such strong faith and conviction."

I have Joey Jackson the Paul Callan with me. We have all been digesting what this means as we have all been sort of watching this together.

Actually, let's pause. Let me listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATHEW STAVER, ATTORNEY FOR KIM DAVIS: Today, they were able to hug each other for the first time in five, six days.

And so we want to be able to give Kim some opportunity to go back with her husband, Joe, and to just rest for the rest of the day. So, she won't be making any specific statements to the media today regarding the substance of the case.

We will address that later this week. Kim is someone who is loyal to God and she is loyal to her job and to her people and she plans to be back at work this week.

But I can guarantee you, knowing Kim, she loves God, she loves people, she loves her work and she will not betray any of those three. She will do her job good. She will serve the people as they want her to serve and she was and elected and she will also be loyal to her God and she's not going to violate her conscience.

So she's released today and we're certainly rejoicing in her release, but the court order did not resolve the underlying issue. And that issue is, Kim Davis has asked for a very simple accommodation. Remove her name and her authority from the marriage certificates and that's what we have asked from the very beginning.

Kim still is asking for that today. And we will continue to ask for that in the future. We believe that the court could act on that. We believe the governor could act on that and we believe the Kentucky assembly can act on that as well. But either way, independently or in combination with each other, we are still asking for Kim Davis and others like her to have her conscience and her religious convictions accommodated.

Kim's life was drastically changed four-and-a-half years ago when her mother-in-law had a dying wish for her to go attend church and she did and she gave her life to Jesus and her life has been drastically changed since then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. So I was sort of hanging on the attorney's every word there as that was the moment we have really all been waiting for. I know the crowd outside of this Carter County Detention Center has as well. It was brief and that was Kim Davis' attorney obviously speaking about her deep, deep convictions and her faith and how she feels about her own job.

And so Joey Jackson and Paul Callan are with me. We were all listening to that together.

Obviously, the one person we didn't actually hear directly from was Kim Davis herself. If I may, you sort of called it, right, because had she stood before microphones and spoken from her heart, that could have gotten her in trouble.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I was saying to you in the break, this would be a shocker for me if she goes to the microphone and says something.

She's going to go home and she's going to meet with her lawyers after she kisses her husband, I'm sure. And she's going to then craft a careful statement maybe that won't get her thrown back into jail. An off-the-cuff statement now saying she's not going to comply with the order of the federal judge is just going to cause more problems.

Frankly, I'm watching her attorney say, this is such a simple thing. All you have to do is have the law changed or have the judge say she doesn't have to sign and it's not under her authority, problem solved, right?

[15:05:12]

BALDWIN: Is it that simple?

CALLAN: No, because if she doesn't have to sign it, then who does? And what if that person says I'm not going to sign it either because my religious beliefs preclude that?

You have to have some law as to who is the person in charge of issuing the certificates. And in the end, that person has to agree to abide by the Constitution of the state of Kentucky and the United States of America. And we're going to be right back where we are again even with that seemingly simple solution.

(CROSSTALK)

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure. Fair point, Paul.

But I think if you get the deputies, as the deputies have now under oath said -- have said that they would issue the orders and they have been in fact issuing these licenses, yes -- when she comes back, however, the accommodation, I'm sure, because you need some official who would be giving out these marriage licenses.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: And so the question then remains, what does the court do? Do they do, A, and say, look, this is part of your broad scope in your job? We're not carving out any exception. You're elected. You're elected to uphold the Constitution. This is part of it and that's what you're doing.

Or do they say, B, because it involves something so deeply personal to you and it involves such a conviction that's protected by the Constitution, do we carve this out, making an exception, taking your name off and allowing the deputies to proceed as if she was absent even though she's very much there doing other aspects of her job?

BALDWIN: I have so many other questions for you, but I think also just looking at this whole story from a 20,000-foot view, I started reading about Kim Davis just really a couple of weeks ago when the story started gaining steam and obviously the fact that she then was held in contempt of court and was placed in the detention center, it really sort of made headlines. But why do you think this has so totally struck a chord, either of you?

CALLAN: Why has it...

BALDWIN: Why has it so totally struck a chord?

CALLAN: Well, I think it has because there are still a large number of Americans who, in good faith, believe that same-sex marriage is against their religion.

And so, as a matter of fact, if you look at the stats on various religious groups, one of the things that I was surprised to see is from a plurality standpoint the largest group are evangelical Protestants in the United States.

Now, they don't all say same-sex marriage is against the Bible, but a substantial number do. You have this internal fight in the United States, even though the courts now are pretty much unanimous that same-sex marriage should be legal.

BALDWIN: And it's even -- this has been a divisive issue, not same- sex marriage, per se, but this particular case in Kentucky with Kim Davis and should she follow the letter of the law and sign these same- sex marriage licenses or should she stand her ground? We have heard from different Republican presidential candidates. Here's Mike Huckabee standing by Kim Davis.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cannot and will not violate her conscience.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Can you tell us what it was like for you in jail these last few days? What did you do?

QUESTION: Was it worth it, Kim?

QUESTION: Kim, can you step up close to the mike just to talk about the experience of the last few days?

STAVER: She's going to do that at the appropriate time. Kim has gone through an incredible amount and today itself has been an emotional day. She had no idea this was coming and she's just now had a few moments to spend with Joe.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... the supporters and people who have been out here...

(CROSSTALK)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She will do that at the rally.

STAVER: She will speak and give thank you to those people who are here that came at the rally. But she's not going to speak about the substance of the case. She's going to thank the people that are here.

QUESTION: Not violating your conscience doesn't answer the question.

STAVER: You will find out in the near future.

QUESTION: Will you back to work tomorrow?

(CROSSTALK)

STAVER: We have had the same request. Accommodate her religious convictions. There's a simple way to do that. And that's what Kim will do. She will do her job and she won't violate her conscience.

HUCKABEE: I want to say thanks to Mat Staver, his representation of Kim, but, most of all, thanks to this incredibly brave lady who decided that the courage of her convictions was more important than simply even her own freedom and she was willing to go to jail for what she believed.

She has ignited something across this country where people are tired of the tyranny of judicial action that takes people's freedoms away, takes their basic fundamental constitutional rights, puts them in jeopardy and the tyranny of a legislative court that believes that it can make up law and somehow find a way to enforce it.

I told Kim today that I feel like she's shown more courage than most any politician I know and most every pastor I know, because she's not only said something. She's been willing to put her life at risk in order to follow the Christ that came into her life four years ago.

[15:10:10]

And that's a bold declaration of the authenticity of her faith and the reality of it. The fact that so many people have come from all over the country to be here at this rally today for her, they came because they wanted her to be free.

What we could not have known, when this was planned a week ago, was that on the day that everyone comes, they get to watch her walk out of this jail.

But we stand with Kim today with gratitude and appreciation and for her husband, Joe, who I appreciate for standing with his wife and in no way doing anything other than being proud that she was willing to pay the price to even go to jail to maintain the clarity of her conscience.

And, Kim, we are all grateful for you and thank God for you. Delighted to be with you today standing with you.

QUESTION: The judge has told her that she cannot interfere with the process of handing out these licenses. What do you advise her to do when she returns to work tomorrow?

HUCKABEE: That's a legal question for her. But I have already told her that if somebody needs to go to jail, I'm

willing to go in her place. And I mean that, because I'm tired of watching people being just harassed because they believe something of their faith.

And we cannot criminalize the Christian faith or anybody's faith in this country. And I'm afraid that there will be remedies that do not involve putting someone in jail for their convictions, especially when the issue is whether the courts can just make a law out of thin air and then somehow try to apply it and punish people for not obeying something that isn't even a law.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

STAVER: Licenses that were issued were issued without the authority of the court of Rowan County and they are not valid.

There are criminal laws in Kentucky that say that if you issue a license to someone that is not authorized by statute, that there are criminal penalties for that.

Kim Davis, because of the 5-4 opinion that happened on June 26, chose to not issue any licenses because of a serious criminal penalty to wrongfully issue a license. You cannot just voluntarily change the certificate. You cannot issue a license to those that are not authorized under Kentucky law. And the General Assembly has not met to clarify the licenses in Kentucky.

So Kim Davis cannot, number one, violate her conscience, but she's not -- she's going to also follow the Kentucky law, which is a very serious violation for wrongfully issuing a license.

HUCKABEE: We have got a lot of people waiting in the hot sun. We're going to get her out to be with Joe.

QUESTION: Kim, was it worth it for you? Was it worth it, yes or no?

STAVER: Thank you, guys.

Let me say that Kim will come out at the very end. I know there's a lot of people here that came from Washington State, from parts of Mexico and Texas and around the country, around the Texas...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, so that's it. I know this crowd outside of the detention center, they are still standing out in that hot Kentucky sun. They are watching and waiting to hear from her.

STAVER: ... thank those people who came to support her. As far as further substantive discussion on the merits of the case...

BALDWIN: We will be right back.

(CROSSTALK)

STAVER: ... we will make whatever arrangements that we need to.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:04]

BALDWIN: All right.

We are watching this program. Really, that's what is happening here in front of this detention center in Grayson, Kentucky. It's continuing.

But we are waiting and watching to hear one more time from Kim Davis, the Rowan County court clerk who spoke -- really, actually it was her attorney who spoke for her, saying she will return to work later this week. She will continue to follow her conscience.

That is the question really, though. What does that mean? How that will look as far as same-sex marriage licenses are concerned in that county in Kentucky? We're watching and waiting to hear one more time from Kim Davis.

But let's turn and talk politics, because really has been become politicized. I have Republican strategist Lisa Boothe and our own chief political correspondent Dana Bash standing by.

Dana, I think really first -- here's my first observation. When you look at this landscape in Grayson, Kentucky, you have Governor Huckabee, who he, along with his wife, Janet, they went inside, he tweeted a photo having met with Kim Davis and the wife.

During the scrum afterwards, he's standing right next to her. He's in the thick of this. And then you have Senator Ted Cruz who is there as well, but a tad off to the side. I guess I'm just wondering, obviously both men are vying for space on this story. But what do you make of the fact that Governor Huckabee is right in the middle of it?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He couldn't be more right in the middle of it.

I made the same observation that you did. It's all about imagery in situations like this for a politician and the fact that Huckabee was right over her shoulder was very telling.

Now, to be fair to Mike Huckabee, as Alice Stewart was on with you in the last hour, he's been very involved with her and her case pretty much since day one helping to arrange this rally that you have been playing during your entire show. But, look, this really does speak to such a huge issue within the Republican presidential voting electorate.

[15:20:00]

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: Which is kind of the divide between, do we do what it takes for religious liberty and religious freedom, even and especially when we believe the law of the land, which many people believe is the case, because the Supreme Court said something different, or do we follow the law?

You have the Mike Huckabees of the world that you mentioned, to a lesser extent, Ted Cruz on one side, standing very firmly with her, saying she needs to do whatever she needs to do, despite her job and despite what the law is, and then others, like John Kasich, for example, the governor of Ohio, even Carly Fiorina saying, you know what, it's too bad that she disagrees with the law. We might not agree with it, but she's got to follow it.

It really does speak to a divide that -- in the field and perhaps within the Republican voting population.

BALDWIN: Yes.

Lisa, Dana just teed up my second point, my question to you. This is one of those questions I imagine that may be now in the thick of things in the fold for Jake Tapper come next Wednesday night at the Reagan Library, when we have all these candidates standing up on that stage as part of our debate coverage. This is one of those questions that now these Republican candidates are having to answer for.

Interestingly Donald, Trump has been quieter than normal on this very issue. What do you make of all of this?

LISA BOOTHE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, I think this is an important debate to have. Religious freedom in the country is something that is important and something that should absolutely be discussed.

But I would argue that this is less of a political and partisan issue and more of an issue of religious freedom. If you look, Kim Davis, herself, is a Democrat.

BALDWIN: That's right.

BOOTHE: So, I don't think that this is a partisan issue.

I think, at heart, this is an issue of religious liberty and I think we are going to continue to see this discussion in the country. If you remember, the Obama administration had said in oral arguments before the Supreme Court's decision that religious institutions and schools' tax-exempt status could be put into questions after the Supreme Court's decision.

I think we're going to continue seeing this conversation about trying to find a balance between the Supreme Court's decision and also protecting religious freedom under the First Amendment.

BALDWIN: You know, I hear you and I agree that a lot of this is a religious issue, religious freedom issue.

But, Dana Bash, this is something I asked of Alice Stewart the last hour and she vehemently said, of course Governor Huckabee would be here in Grayson, Kentucky, even if he weren't running for president. I don't know if the Ted Cruz would say the same about their candidate, but we can't ignore the fact that politics are at play.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Dana.

BASH: No, I was just going to say, of course it's politically advantageous for Mike Huckabee to be here.

He might be there if he weren't running for president and same goes for Ted Cruz. But I would say and, you know, you might agree with me, like this is the first kind of big test of the Supreme Court decision and the idea of standing up for religious liberty, which is really a catchphrase that you hear all the time in conservative circles.

But there might be others. What happens when somebody who has a bakery, you know, or a religious organization doesn't want to help somebody who, based on the fact that they are getting married and they are of the same sex? There are a whole bunch of other issues likely coming down the pike.

This is the first and this is obviously the most interesting so far since she is somebody who is a government worker, state government worker. It's kind of an extreme example to have first.

BALDWIN: Right, an elected employee in the state of Kentucky.

Lisa Boothe, Dana Bash, thank you, ladies, very, very much.

I mentioned the Reagan Library. This is a huge deal. The Republican presidential candidates, they will be facing off in back-to-back debates. Join me next Wednesday, September 16, 6:00 and 8:00 p.m., only here on CNN for the big debates.

And tell us, what do you want to hear from the candidates? I want you to tweet us your debate questions. Just make sure, when you tweet, do #CNNdebate. We will read them. We will sort through them and perhaps one of these candidates will answer a question directly from you.

Up next, we have news just in involving the vicious hit of a referee. Take a look at the spotlight here on your screen. You have not just one, a second player taking him down during this high school game. Hear what the school system is now saying could be behind that tackle.

Also, the refugee crisis in Europe reaching the tipping point. One of our senior correspondents is there in the middle of it on the scene running with the refugees through cornfields as they're racing for freedom away from police.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:53]

BALDWIN: Want to show you this game time hit that involves not just football players, but a referee. It has now led to the suspension of not just one, but two Texas high school football players. First to the video. Shows this referee here spotlighted for you.

Wait for one player to come up from behind and smack him and then another, two players totally taking him by surprise. This ref has no idea it was coming. Another vantage point for you.

Now these students could face criminal charges.

I have Ed Lavandera. He has been working the details of this investigation.

And I know we also, Ed, who did we hear from, the athletic director at this high school? What are they saying?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, various school officials there in the San Antonio area talking now. And this story has now taken another dramatic and even more disturbing turn, as if this video wasn't enough that you're looking at.

But according to school officials there in San Antonio, the two players are alleging that the referee during the course of the game made several racial slurs directed at their team. And then, of course, just so people know, this incident took place at the very end of the game.

The team in white there with the blue helmets, is San Antonio, John Jay High School. They were playing a school from Marble Falls, Texas. Marble Falls was on its way to winning the game 15-9. So, this was at the very end.