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Migrants Run for Their Lives as Desperation Grows; Woman Helps Migrants; Jeb Bush Guests on Stephen Colbert's Debut On Late Night; Pastor Commits Suicide After Ashley Madison Leak. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired September 09, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: This exclusive CNN video was taken just off the coast of Turkey here. More than 30 people at a time cramming into this small pontoon boat being smuggled across the Mediterranean with hopes of reaching Greece, and that is just the beginning.
Look at the map with me. This is the route here. If they are lucky, they will get through Macedonia and Serbia and Hungary, where squalid refugee camps and aggressive police have families running. Running here for their lives.
CNN's Arwa Damon and a photographer have been alongside those families sharing their stories.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This family right here are from Kobani, Syria, where, a year ago, there were very fierce clashes with ISIS. This particular family tried to go back after they fled because they thought it was safe and is launched a counterattack two months ago and then they decided to leave.
This woman in the red sweater, she actually gave birth when she arrived in Greece. She was pregnant in the dinghy, and then the minute she landed she couldn't walk anymore and she had to wait in Greece and gave birth, and then walked. That baby, a little girl, she is just 11 days old, and they made this entire journey. A big risk for them, yes, but that is because they believe that if they stayed back home they would most certainly end up dead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: That little baby 11 days old, and they are walking. As desperation grows, leaders are asking all of their neighbor nations to open their borders.
My next guest did not wait for the government to step in. She went to a refugee center near Berlin to hand out diapers and food and left with four houseguests. She is Anna Dushime. She wrote about her experiments with "Buzzfeed," and joins me now.
Anna, thank you so much for joining me.
And I know you fled Rwanda back in 1994. This is personal for you, but can you first explain to me, it's one thing to think about helping, but the fact that you on your own volition went to the refugee center about a week and a half ago, tell me why.
ANNA DUSHIME, ESCAPED RWANDA & TOOK IN REFUGEES: Hi, Brooke. Thanks for having me on your program.
As you say, it's really personal for me, and my family and I. We fled Rwanda and went to Uganda and someone took us in on our way to Uganda and we had a place to shower and sleep in a real bed and that was a turning point for us. We felt human again. For me, that was my initial motive. We went out and how the refugees were being treated and didn't have the capacity to resist them all so we initially went out to help and once I was there I realized that this is a big story, this is something that I need to cover for "Buzzfeed" and I did that and in the midst of it all I met Hamid and his family and we spoke through a friend of mine who spoke Arabic, and I don't, unfortunately, and their story resonated with me, a no-brainer, and asked them to come and stay with me for the weekend
BALDWIN: Before I get to them, you said something that I jotted down. You said you wanted to feel human again. What does not feeling human, perhaps like so many of these refugees, what does that feel like?
DUSHIME: I mean, I can't even possibly begin to imagine how it feels like because leaving Rwanda was very different from the way these people have been coming from Syria and as you just described it for, crossing many, many borders coming from Turkey and Greece in a raft boat, something I can't imagine but this is something that we all have in common, that we're human and for someone to sleep in a real bed, to smile a little bit and eat and talk and tell their story, that's part of what makes us human and I think it was really, really important for me to give a little bit back to them.
BALDWIN: Tell me this family's story. Who are they and where have they come from?
DUSHIME: They came from Aleppo and Kobani as well. Once the war started things went downhill. They fled and went to Irbil, Kurdish Iraq and, for example, the youngest daughter has -- she bumped her head when the bombs were falling in the neighborhood in Aleppo and bumped her head in the sink and has been treated and her eye is giving her a bit of a struggle, and so they are just really, really nice, calm kids but also very traumatized. They don't sleep very well at night. It's a really loving family and seeing them together and seeing them play with each other and it's just -- I don't know. It makes my heartache that people have to go through things like that, you know, normal people like you and I and, yeah, it -- it's really hard.
BALDWIN: I can't even begin to imagine. Our heart obviously goes out to all these people. Where are they now, and are you able to stay in touch with them or not at all?
[14:35:10] DUSHIME: Yes, we are very much in touch. Since they couldn't stay with me in my apartment since I live in a shared art we found a hostel in the end for them and they live in a little apartment within that hostel. It's really small but it's home and they have their own spot and don't have to share it with a million other people, and a little kitchen. I've been there and they have invited me over.
In fact, I'm going to go this weekend to celebrate a birthday, which was last week, didn't have time to celebrate and we'll do it this weekend. You two kids started school and I have a lot of great people who speak Arabic and are willing to go to the doctor and help out as much as they can. That's what's happening. I'm in touch with them. We're over touch and we communicate by emojis because we don't speak each other's language, but, yeah, would I say for now they are well but they kind of also apprehensive because they don't know where they will be staying.
BALDWIN: You are a good soul, and I feel like human emotion would transcend any sort of language barrier.
Anna Dushime, thank you so much --
DUSHIME: Thank you.
BALDWIN: -- for sharing the stories. Thank you.
BALDWIN: I need to remind all of you, one week from tonight, the Republican candidates will face off at CNN's debate, including Jeb Bush. But first, he's going late night, criticizing his brother and mocking Donald Trump. The video, we'll talk about it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:40:59] BALDWIN: Let me remind you again, the next big Republican debate one week from tonight right here on CNN.
And as Donald Trump continues to lead in the polls, Jeb Bush is hoping to chip away at his front-runner status and his numbers. He's getting a little help from the new host of the "Late Show," Stephen Colbert. Jeb Bush appeared last night on the debut episode. And in a clip that was actually edited out of the final cut and posted online and shared all over the place, Jeb Bush weighed in first here on the Iran nuclear deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I think President Obama is being naive to trust the ayatollahs and this deal will create an even more unstable Middle East and it troubles me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: That answer wasn't good enough for Stephen Colbert, you see, so he asked to help him be a little more Trumpy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I will build a wall between the United States and Iran and make Mexico pay for it!
(LAUGHTER)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, LATE SHOW: OK, yeah.
(APPLAUSE)
BUSH: Thank you.
Trucks are strong. I will turn the National Mall into a luxury golf course.
(LAUGHTER)
And China will respect that.
I promise to put meatloaf on the $10 bill.
(LAUGHTER)
And give Little John a cabinet position --
(LAUGHTER)
-- which would send the message that this great nation will never turn down for what.
(LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: Whoo! Now that sounds presidential.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
COLBERT: Governor -- no, President Jeb Bush.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Did you ever think Little John would come out of President Bush's mouth? No. Let's all shake our heads together.
I have NPR TV critic, Eric Deggans, with me; and senior politics editor for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich.
Good to have you both on.
We all know this is about the candidates going on the shows and showing a different side and showing some personality.
And, Eric, I was reading your notes, you said to my producer, saying Jeb wasn't awful but -- what did you think?
(LAUGHTER)
ERIC DEGGANS, TV CRITIC, NPR: Exactly. First of all, Little John did not come out of his mouth, the words Little John did not come out of his mouth, but, yeah, Jeb was trying so hard to be relaxed and trying so hard to be off the cuff that he was neither. And as you noted, the clip where he was the most funny, where he made fun of Trump was cut out of the broadcast, so we saw a Bush who was clearly nervous, who was having trouble loosening up, who seemed a little wary of Stephen Colbert at first because, you know, it was the first show and it was hard to tell whether Stephen Colbert was going to make a joke of everything or earnestly talk to him about the issues, which he tried to do. He got about halfway to the goal line on this one. He showed some relaxation and some different sides of himself, but he looked so up tight and so uncomfortable that it was hard to enjoy the moment.
BALDWIN: OK. Halfway to the goal line.
Jackie, I heard someone joking today that maybe Jeb Bush could use Colbert's writers walking around on him on the campaign trail. That was pretty funny. How do you think he did?
JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR, THE DAILY BEAST: Someone gave him some pretty good advice. Don't try to be funny. Let Stephen Colbert be funny. You're not there to interview and he did not do that. Give him that, and many a politician has sort of fallen by the wayside at hands of Stephen Colbert. We all are meant for -- he's kind of the master of making politicians look foolish. I don't think Jeb Bush looked foolish. Was he a little uptight? Sure, it's Jeb Bush but the clip where he was make fun of Trump which was online, not during the show, it showed his deadpan, it showed kind of his sense of humor which has to help him in the long run.
BALDWIN: Moving along, in trying to show a little bit more personality file, Eric, let's talk about Hillary Clinton because we know she taped on Ellen DeGeneres, we know that, she shook it a little bit and there's Amy Schumer and Amy Schumer mojo in her atmosphere can help her as well. A lot has been written about a strategy shift in the campaign. Read "The "New York Times" piece yesterday, hey, get out there and show a more personable side. How choreographed do you think this was and will it work?
(LAUGHTER)
[14:45:20] DEGGANS: Incredibly. All have you to do is look at a politician like Barack Obama who is a master at appearing on these TV shows. He goes on "the tonight show" and goes on "the daily show" and Colbert, at ease, witty. If he's asked to dance, he looks good doing it. You know, I don't want to oversell this but he's very good at doing this so when you see people like Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush who are not good at doing it, it's painfully obvious. It seems that this is something that presidential candidates now have to do. They have to go on these shows and be personable and try to show another side of themselves, but, again, if they have a hard time letting go, have a hard time relaxing, sometimes it's -- it's painful to watch. Sometimes it's uncomfortable to watch. Hillary Clinton did a better job than Bush did, but they both pale in comparison to the Obamas, both Michelle and Barack, who are very good at doing these sorts of things.
BALDWIN: But is this, Jackie, all about being able to sing Al Green off the cuff? Is that really all it's about to sit in the Oval Office? I mean, come on.
KUCINICH: No, of course not. You have to say that Hillary Clinton, this isn't her first rodeo, not the first time she's been on these shows. She's been doing this stuff all the way to her first presidential run and probably before that with Leno and, you know, when she was first lady, so, you know, you would think she would be a little bit more comfortable and this is about reaching a different audience, particularly women. As we know, Hillary Clinton launched her -- her campaign to women on Monday. So this is about appealing to them. And, you know, she was -- she was softer. She was fun, you know, for Hillary Clinton. So her Ellen interview was probably a success as far as the Clinton campaign is concerned.
DEGGANS: And, Brooke, if I could break in, I would also point out it's about creating stories like this, where we're talking about them. We're not talking about how badly Donald Trump is beating Jeb Bush and we're not talking about Hillary Clinton's e-mail
BALDWIN: You mentioned the "T" word. See, I wasn't going to go there. I hear you loud and clear. That's exactly right. They both won because we're talking about them in a lighter way.
Thank you both.
DEGGANS: It was a pleasure.
BALDWIN: Again, reminder, Republican presidential candidates facing off in back-to-back debates. Watch next Wednesday night, September 16th, at 6:00 and 8:00 eastern, only on CNN. We will be there at the Reagan Library.
Coming up next, the tragic fallout after a Baptist pastor, whose name was one of those "outs" linked to that adultery website, Ashley Madison, and in that massive hack. He committed suicide. His family is now responding and they are speaking to us. Their story, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:52:29] BALDWIN: A family rocked by tragedy in the wake of the Ashley Madison hack is speaking out and spending a pretty powerful message about love. New Orleans Pastor John Gibson committed suicide after he was outted as a user of the site from people seeking affairs.
And Gibson's wife and children sat down with my colleague, CNN's Money's Laurie Segall, for an exclusive interview, and she joins us now from New York.
Just the strength it must have taken for the family to open up. Here's her conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAURIE SEGALL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A pastor, a husband, and father of two, a seminary professor with a sense of humor.
(SINGING) TREY GIBSON, SON OF JOHN GIBSON: My dad was a great man. He was a great man with struggles. My dad reached a point of such hopelessness and despair that he took his own life.
SEGALL: It was just six after hackers exposed the names of those on Ashley Madison, a website for people seeking affairs. Gibson's name was on the list.
CHRISTI GIBSON, WIFE OF JOHN GIBSON: I came home from work and I began to notice that there were clues around the House that things were not what they were supposed to be. I eventually discovered him, and that was a moment that I've -- that life doesn't prepare you for. How do you tell your kids that their dad is gone, and that he took his own life?
CALLIE GIBSON, DAUGHTER OF JOHN GIBSON: I think that the hardest thing for me to deal with was that he honestly doubted the fact that we would love him enough.
SEGALL: In the suicide note, he wrote about being on Ashley Madison.
(on camera): Do you mind sharing a little bit of what he put in the note?
CHRISTI GIBSON: He talked about the depression, and he talked about having his name on there, and he said that he was very, very sorry. He poured his life into other people, but somehow he could not extend that into himself.
SEGALL (voice-over): And facing the harsh reality of loss, there is also forgiveness, Christi says.
CHRISTI GIBSON: It wasn't so bad that we wouldn't have forgiven it. And so many people have said that to us. But for John, he carried with him such shame and he couldn't see that.
SEGALL: When the hack left 32 million potential adulterers exposed, Christi has a message for those grappling with infidelity.
CHRISTI GIBSON: Don't underestimate the power of love. Nothing is worth the loss of a husband and friend and father. It just didn't merit it at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:55:19] SEGALL: And, Brooke, when her husband passed away she made a pact with her family no more lies. They promised to be open with each other.
I just got a statement from Abbott Life Media, parent company of Ashley Madison and want to read it to you. It says, "Abbot Life Media expresses our deepest condolences to the family of Dr. John Gibson. Dr. Gibson's passing is a stark heart-wrenching reminder that the criminal hack against our company and our customers has had a very real consequence for a great many innocent people."
So we are really seeing the victims of this crime -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Incredibly powerful interview.
Laurie Segall, thanks to you, thanks to the family for sharing.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
