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Crowded GOP Field Faces Critical Showdowns; Donald Trump on Foreign Policy, More Attacks Than Substance?; Donald Trump's Illegal Immigration Rhetoric Draws Protests; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 16, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:02] BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. We're going to see, you know, some people have said this is Trump versus the 10 other candidates. Trump is going to be, I'm sure, a focal point of the debate. But maybe we're going to learn a lot about other candidates based on their conversations with each other.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Brian Stelter, thanks for stopping by. Appreciate it.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The clock is ticking down and the curtain is about to go up. Just eight hours from now, CNN launches its first Republican debate of this presidential season. That's Air Force One of the Ronald Reagan era looming over the main stage.

First up, the undercard, the four lowest polling candidates go head to head. They'll face a smaller audience. But on the plus side, they'll have more time to sell themselves. Right? Then at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, the main event, 11 candidates, crowding on to the stage and at the center, frontrunner Donald Trump, he knows he's wearing the bull's eye tonight.

Mark Preston is the executive editor of CNN Politics. He joins us live from the site of the debate, the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California.

Good morning.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Good morning, Carol. What a setting to have this Republican presidential debate. You know, there are many in the Republican Party who think it was Ronald Reagan who really reinvigorated it with his win back in 1980. So in just a few hours, as you said, we will see not one but two debates. Bobby Jindal, Rick Santorum, George Pataki, and Lindsey Graham will be on the so-called undercard debate. A lot on the line for those four as they try to re-ignite their campaigns.

But the main event will be at 8:00 tonight. And there are certain moments we need to look for tonight, Carol. The first moment is, will Donald Trump moderate his tone? He has been very critical of his opponents in the past debate and certainly on the campaign trail. Another moment we'll look for, will Jeb Bush go on the attack of

Donald Trump? He has been under this withering criticism of Trump. Carly Fiorina, who was not on the main debate stage back in August, will she go directly at Donald Trump? Those two have been attacking one another. They both have business backgrounds. That will be a key moment to watch for tonight.

And there are several of these candidates who need to break out. The likes of Rand Paul, Scott Walker, Chris Christie, all need to have moments. And the reason why is they need to reinvigorate their campaigns. Their poll numbers are low. And they need to convince donors to continue to give to them to fuel their campaign as we move forward, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Mark Preston, thanks for joining us. I appreciate it.

By this point in the campaign, no one can question that Donald Trump is a master at marketing Donald Trump. But his policies, not so much. That's because his vision has been short on specifics. And that was the case again last night when an expected foreign policy address offered more heat than illumination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is one of the dumbest deals and one of the weakest contracts I've ever seen of any kind. They're taking $150 billion. They're getting a deal that's going to need -- it's going to right into nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Athena Jones joins us. She's also at the Reagan Presidential Library. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You're right about that. You just heard Donald Trump talking about his opposition to the Iran nuclear deal. Yes, in general, he has been more -- he's had more of a focus on showmanship, on stagecraft, on selling Donald Trump as a brand. He has been short on policy specifics. That speech last night, that foreign policy national security speech, was just 15 minutes long, and there weren't really any policy specifics in that either.

He often talks about wanting to make the U.S. military stronger so that no one even wants to try to mess with America. But he didn't get into further specifics than that. He talked about the Iran nuclear deal. He talked about wanting to improve health care for veterans without saying exactly how he'd do it. But he also talked, I should tell you, about illegal immigration. That's of course the big topic that he's been focusing on since the very beginning. He said at one point there are illegal immigrants who are treated far better than our veterans.

Listen to how Vice President Joe Biden responded to Trump's talk about illegal immigration at an event at his own house. This event was to mark the Hispanic Heritage Month. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want you to remember, notwithstanding the fact that there's one guy absolutely denigrating an entire group of people, appealing to the baser side of human nature, working on this notion of xenophobia in a way that hasn't occurred in a long time. The American people agree with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So there you heard Vice President Biden responding to Trump's rhetoric. And there have been protests outside several of the last couple of events. The one last night and also on Monday night in Dallas. You had a lot of Latinos and others out protesting some of Trump's tough rhetoric. We'll see if he repeats that same rhetoric tonight, Carol.

[10:05:15] COSTELLO: All right. Athena Jones, I can't help notice the backdrop. So the podiums are set up. There are -- are there pictures on the front of -- can we go back to Athena's shot for just a second? I'm just fascinated by the stage. Can you show us around just a little bit, Athena? Can you move or are you wired in?

JONES: Absolutely. I'll back up a little bit. I'm wired in but I've got some room. This is the podiums that are set out. You can see here Donald Trump is going to be in the middle there. They are only a few inches apart, Carol. About 20 inches apart. So once they're filled with the candidates, it's going to feel very, very intimate.

I should note here that the backdrop is this Air Force One. This is the Air Force One that President Ronald Reagan flew on. CNN has spent weeks building this stage. We are three levels up, building this stage so that it could be right next to that airplane. And you could have that airplane be the backdrop.

And if we move the camera just a little bit more over here, you can see the rest of the setup. It's a rather intimate setting. Look how close the podiums are to the rest of the audience. Only about 500 people can fit here. They are guests of the Reagan Library, guests of the Republican National Committee. And a few of the folks in the audience will have been invited by the campaign.

But a much more intimate setting than the last debate which was in a basketball arena. You can also see some of the cameras. There are going to be 13 cameras tonight. So a big production but in a very intimate setting. We'll see if that affects how the candidates interact with one another, how much they're willing to really bash each other tonight, Carol.

COSTELLO: I know, I couldn't help but notice the vacuum cleaner behind you. So hopefully they'll remember to remove that when the debate begins.

(LAUGHTER)

JONES: They want it to be pristine. They're going to vacuum a bunch.

COSTELLO: I love that. Athena Jones, thanks so much.

All right. Back to serious stuff. Let's talk about foreign policy. Might it take center stage tonight? With me now to talk about that, Doug Hyde, former deputy chief of staff for Eric Cantor and former RNC communications director, and Mike Rogers, CNN national security commentator and former congressman and chair of the Intelligence Committee.

Welcome to you both. Thank you so much for being here.

DOUG HYDE, FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR REP. ERIC CANTOR: Thank you.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Carol.

HYDE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome. So, Mike, I want you to hear what Mr. Trump said about our military. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to make our military so big and so strong and so great, and it will be so powerful that I don't think we're ever going to have to use it. Nobody's going to mess with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Mike, I was unaware that our military was weak. What was Mr. Trump trying to say?

ROGERS: Well, there's been a lot of debate about what size our military should be. They just announced about six months ago 40,000 troop reduction. And so there is real concern out there about the right size of the United States military. So what I think Trump is doing has taken that populist tone of knowing that there's a theme of real concern about the size and shape of the United States military, meaning they've raided maintenance accounts to do operations, things that do affect what's called readiness in the military, is a unit ready to deploy, and when they get there, are they combat ready? And there are some readiness questions and other things.

So he took that, and what you saw was that kind of heated rhetoric. And people can identify with that. I think that's exactly why he does it. He doesn't have to explain details. He just says I'm going to have the biggest and best military in the world, and people applaud, and he moves on to the next issue.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: And, Doug, something else Mr. Trump said yesterday. He said that he will be able to negotiate with Russia's Vladimir Putin and also the Iranians simply because they know he's a great negotiator. Could that be true? HYDE: Well, maybe they know that, maybe they don't. I think they're

looking -- the whole world's looking at these elections right now and laughing at what's happening at the Republican Party. And in part because as your previous segment with Athena highlighted, there's a lot of rhetoric but there's not much specifics. And it's not just foreign policy. It's on every issue under the sun. If he's talking about immigration, if he's talking about veterans, there's a lot of rhetoric, not a lot of specifics.

And so we'll see a lot of the candidates certainly go after Donald Trump tonight. Jeb Bush is being talked about doing it. Certainly Carly Fiorina. I'm also going to be interested to see what Hugh Hewitt has to say, what Jake Tapper has to say. And Congressman Rogers and I have both been on the receiving end of some uncomfortable questioning from Dana Bash. Lord knows she's not going to hold back tonight.

And that's where we'll see real rhetoric being held to the fire. And instead of just attention to Donald Trump, we'll see some scrutiny. And that will ultimately, I think, will be his undoing if this continues.

COSTELLO: So, Congressman Rogers, is there any Republican candidate out there right now that has a great foreign policy?

ROGERS: Well, you know, there's a lot of them that have been spending time getting more thoughtful on their positions. And on foreign policy, it's OK to mature in a candidacy. This has been an unusual election in the sense that there's so much attention so far out to so many candidates. But yes, there are some great positions out there on a lot of candidates.

[10:10:16] And they're thoughtful positions. You know, it's not I'm all in or we're all out. Foreign policy, and certainly national security, is always nuanced in there somewhere. It means it's never as easy or as black and white as you think it is. And there are a lot of candidates, Carly Fiorina, Jeb Bush, others who have had this really thoughtful dialogue on national security.

So when you look at the list, there's a lot of really good candidates out there with very solid national security positions that I think America can embrace. The problem is when you have a Donald Trump out there who says he's just going to have the biggest, baddest military in the world, all of that serious policy discussion gets shoved aside.

At some point, it will turn. People will start asking specifics about what their national security positions are because it will be, if not number one in some of the early primary states, number two in importance for those early primary state voters.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. And you know, what you said, Congressman, when you said, you know, thoughtful debate, I think it's easier for many Americans just to look at things in black and white and not to look at things in shades of gray because frankly, they're tired of that, and they're tired, Doug, of things not getting done. So they don't really want to be thoughtful at this moment. HYDE: Well, but what we see from the voters -- and this is

historically true -- is after summer, after Labor Day, that's when they really start to focus more seriously. They're paying more attention to what the candidates are saying, and that's where more specifics come in. You also have Washington in session for a good part of the rest of the year. They've been out all of August. And as Congress acts, you also see the candidates reacting whether positively or negatively to what Congress is doing.

I think we'll ultimately get down to a lot more specifics. And that's where for Donald Trump the devil may be in the details.

COSTELLO: All right. Doug Hyde, Mike Rogers, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

And of course be sure to tune in tonight for the first of two debates beginning at 6:00 p.m. Eastern. The main event with the 11 candidates starts at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump wants to build a wall and send all illegal immigrants back to Mexico. Why one family I talked with say those words hurt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FATIMA, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: We're not monsters. Like everyone says that we're immigrants, but no one -- everyone is an immigrant. No one -- unless you're a descendant from Native Americans. You are an immigrant because you all came from somewhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:17:13] COSTELLO: All right. That was the scene outside of Donald Trump rally on board the USS Iowa last night, and tonight has the potential to be even louder. At least 40 organizations say they will be protesting outside the CNN debate, speaking out against what they call racist and xenophobic language by some of these candidates.

Now many of those protesters are upset about Trump's anti-immigrant rhetoric, declaring some of those who cross the border are rapists and criminals, saying he wants to build a wall to keep them out for good. But for all the rhetoric, there are real people at the center of the immigration crisis.

I talked with a man Trump wants to see deported. His name is Francisco. He is undocumented. He came from Mexico 14 years ago. Francisco works hard. He pays taxes. He has a wife and four girls, and he says he's proving Trump wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCISCO, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: I don't think that he represents Americans. We want to prove him and people who think like him, and we are here working hard and facing all the time deportation. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: A few years ago Francisco was arrested by immigration officials. He spent time behind bars before Catholic charities helped him out. But for his family, the pain of that time is still fresh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FATIMA: And if he gets deported, I'll be really sad. Because when he was in jail, I was only a little girl. It really hurt me. He wasn't there for us. They took him away.

COSTELLO: When you hear politicians describe people coming over the border from Mexico, do you listen to them?

FATIMA: No. We're not monsters. Like everyone says that we're immigrants, but no one -- everyone is an immigrant. No one -- unless you're a descendant from Native American, you are an immigrant because you all came from somewhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But while Francisco and his family and hundreds of others are worried about a Trump presidency, another group of people, hundreds of other people, are embracing Trump's run for the White House.

HLN's Dr. Drew Pinsky dedicated a whole show to trying to figure out why so many Republican voters support Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, HLN's "DR. DREW": Sam talked about people being marginalized and he using a language that is divisive. I'm seeing exactly the opposite. That people are unifying behind him. Why? That's what I'm seeing. It seems like --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This audience is going to prove to you -- this audience and other audiences are going to prove to you the establishment is in trouble. We are done with the establishment, and we are going to kick them all out of office. This is it. It's over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:20:10] COSTELLO: I want to bring in Dr. Drew, the host of "Dr. Drew" on HLN. Welcome.

PINSKY: Thank you. Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So I interviewed Francisco and his family because I wanted to put a human face on our immigration crisis. What do you think Trump's supporters would think of Francisco and his family? PINSKY: You know, much to my surprise, and again, I -- the reason I

filmed my audience with Trump supporters is this whole -- I just want to understand the Trump phenomenon. It's such a curiosity to me. I think they would all respond with compassion followed by anger. They all say the same thing, which is yes, we understand there are people behind this, but what about us? No one is speaking for us.

They -- and most of the people that stand up in my audience and -- are so impassioned are people of color, of various nationalities and ethnicities. I have to stop every time in my show and stop and go, now, wait a minute. You don't look like who I hear the Trump supporters are. And they say absolutely not. It's just that we have been treated as some sort of monolithic group, and I want somebody -- I want things that I want as an American which is I want a job.

I want people who are taking my jobs dealt with, taking my jobs illegally. I want somebody who can support me, make me feel good about my country again. I'm hearing this over and over and over again, and it's really quite surprising.

COSTELLO: Well, the other part that kind of surprises me is they support Trump's plan to build this huge wall, you know, along the Mexican border. And I just want to give some facts out. You know, let's get rid of the emotion and deal with facts. To build this wall, according to the Department of Homeland Security, it would cost $20 billion just to build the wall. That does not include staffing.

To deport 11 million undocumented immigrants, it would cost $23,000 per person. And if you add that all up, that would cost us $250 billion. These numbers come from the Government Accountability Office and Immigration Police.

Do any of these facts and figures matter to Trump supporters, though?

PINSKY: The specifics do not matter at this point. And I've talked to other sort of strategists who say that it's sort of specifically vague because the more specific you get at times like tonight in the debates is more opportunity to attack on the specifics rather than talking about generalities that people want to hear. You know, the supporters that showed up in my audience brought his book with me -- with him. He wrote a book called "Time to Get Tough" in which he specifies a lot of how he intends to do these things.

I didn't know he had written out his policies anywhere. And yet he will not speak about those policies on the stump or in the debates. So there's some sort of strategy going on about not being specific about how he's going to do these things and what the supporters will say is they don't care. They trust him that he'll find a way and he'll do it in a way that's fiscally responsible. They are -- it's funny. Particularly when it comes to, say, women's issues. You know, how can you get behind, if you're a woman, some of the rhetoric and some of the words he has used? And they just brush it aside much the way you would, like, a child who misspeaks. You go oh, no, no. He's well-intentioned. It was just a slip of the tongue. Don't worry.

I don't understand why they give him a pass on just about everything except that he has tapped into something emotional, as you say, and that something seems to be very powerful.

COSTELLO: It is -- well, what I think it is, is everybody wants this strong, confident figure who says he can get things done no matter what. And maybe we're so yearning for that strong figure because we haven't had one in so long.

PINSKY: You're right, Carol. That and the PC fatigue. The sort of language police. I keep hearing that over and over again. They feel like it's so refreshing to have somebody just speak with freedom, without the worry about stepping on a landmine. There's so much fatigue about being just so with how we speak that I hear that over and again as well. Those are the two main things.

COSTELLO: All right. Dr. Drew Pinsky, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, if you were a candidate, what would you be doing hours before the debate? You won't believe what one of the candidates is doing. We'll talk about that next.

[10:24:26]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Tonight Republican presidential hopefuls go head to head in the big CNN debate and make their pitch to the American people. The stage unlike any other and truly symbolic. Candidates will be lined up in front of President Ronald Reagan's Air Force One. So what goes on behind the scenes before the candidates step out onto the stage?

CNN's Brooke Baldwin takes you on a sneak peek to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: This is something you will definitely not see on TV on Wednesday night. All of these trailers. This is where all the different candidates will essentially camp out in the hours before the debate. Every candidate has one. Let's check one out.

Inside the trailer, maybe not totally glamorous, but it will do the trick. What matters is the substance. What matters is the fact that they'll be talking to their advisers, what to say, what not to say, how to address the camera, fixing the tie.

Let's see what's in the refrigerator. Aha. Ronald Reagan Presidential Library water. Perhaps it will bring them good luck. I see maybe a stereo system, some last-minute tunes to get them ready to go. And really everything all culminates on this stage Wednesday night.

(END VIDEOTAPE)