Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Carly Fiorina in Second Place in New Poll; Trump, Carson and Comments on Muslims; Two American Hostages Freed; Pope Francis in Cuba; Pope Francis, Social Media Superstar; Calling Out Companies for Paying Women Less. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 20, 2015 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: 6:00 Eastern this Sunday evening. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Thank you for joining us. Well, you can call it the Fiorina Factor.

A brand-new CNN poll out today shows the former Hewlett-Packard's CEO, Carly Fiorina has rocketed to second place. Take a look at that. Up to 15 percent after her strong performance at last Wednesday's Republican Presidential debate. Donald Trump does maintains his first place status. But for the first time his lead has dropped. He lost 8 points. Here's Trump reacting to the news on this MORNING'S "STATE OF THE UNION".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIATE: Well, I'm a little surprised because other polls have come out where it actually picked up after the debate. I actually gained after the debate. I'm in first place in every poll but gained substantially in a couple of them. So I'm a little surprise. But you know, it's the poll. The only poll that matters is the big one. You know that one. That's going to be the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Meantime Scott Walker, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker one- time leader in Iowa barely even register in this new poll, getting less than one half of one percent. Let's break down the numbers with CNN Politics Senior Reporter, Stephen Collinson. What you do make of the rise, my friend?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: It's really interesting. You know, Carly Fiorina, Poppy, has given herself an opportunity now with two stellar debate performances to really make a run for the nomination. But the question is, is the rise sustainable?

If you look at the fund-raising of Carly Fiorina so far in this race, it's been pretty poor. The last accounting moment a couple of months ago, she had something like $2 million that she had raise she doesn't have the super pac money that other candidates like Jeb Bush have. So the question is, how can she turn this great debate performance,

this Bush into polls into cash. We are going to get another accounting period at the end of this month and we're going to see if the buzz she's getting now enables her to make enough money to put a structure together in key early voting states. Because if you can't do that, it doesn't matter how well you do in debates.

HARLOW: You know, Donald Trump has now slipped, he has lost 8 points. He's down to 24 percent, still an enviable number by most account. I just had a guest on the show, Kate Burner who was a coauthor of one of his books. And said, look this is what Trump needs. This will motivate him, this will get the fire in the belly and this will bring Trump back up. What do you think?

COLLINSON: Yes. You know, if you look at Donald Trump's career in business. He divides people between winners and losers and he sees himself as a winner. So it can be interesting to see how he reacts if we go through a couple of weeks of polls show his lead ebbing perhaps Fiorina or another candidate to get ahead of him. How is he going to react to this.

You know, the big question all along has been can Donald Trump turn a campaign that's basically a creation of his media profile into a real campaign. This is you know, with four or five months now before people start to vote, it's getting much more serious. This is the moment when it's going to tell. And it will be really interesting to see how he react to the ups and downs of the polls. He's basically based on the fact that he's leading every poll and he tells everyone about it the whole time.

HARLOW: Yes, it's interesting that he also said with Jake Tapper this morning, he said, you know, it's amazing to me how accurate polls are. So clearly they matter a lot to him. Scott Walker, a few months ago, the front runner in Iowa. Granted it was early on. Now he's not registering on this poll. He has less than one half of one percent. What happened to Scott Walker?

COLLINSON: That's incredible really. I saw him early on in this race in some early voting states. And I thought he was a very impressive retail candidate. The question with Scott Walker was always would he be able to adapt to the biggest stage, the greater scrutiny of the presidential campaign, the higher stakes and the pressure.

He's had a few, what you could call unforced errors under the scrutiny of the media. And if you talked to the conservatives, some of them are quite disappointed. But they thought this guy Scott Walker was someone who had done very well in Wisconsin, he won in Wisconsin, a state that Barack Obama won twice, and he would be a good candidate for has national election. It just seems at the moment, and it's going to be very difficult to come back from that, the highest political stage there is.

HARLOW: This has not been a good run so far by Washington insiders or just political insiders if you look at the recent poll. The top three, none of them politicians. Thank you so much, Stephen Collinson as always. Let's talk more about this in the republican race for the White House

with our political commentators, Ben Ferguson, host of the Ben Ferguson show, and Marc Lamont Hill, a professor at Morehouse College and DET news host.

[18:05:00] Marc, let me begin with this poll marks the first time that we've seen Donald Trump lose support and not just one or two points. I mean, he lost eight points and it's because largely you would think of you know, this isn't in the days following the debate. Did this debate reveal many Trump weaknesses? Is that what's going on?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. And this is what I predicted back in the summertime. I said it was going to happen around this...

HARLOW: You predicted by October 24th, my friend, we wouldn't be talking about him.

HILL: All right. Well it seems we're going to be talking about him but we won't be talking about him as a front runner. He'll say something absurd but he'll be doing it from the cheap seats. And the reason is, because we have exposed the key weakness in Donald Trump's campaign here which is that, he doesn't know anything. He doesn't know the issues, doesn't know the topics. And when he's forced to talk about substantive policy issues, what happens is he knows nothing.

On the other hand Carly Fiorina really shined on the CNN debate stage last week. I mean, whether I agree with her or not, and I don't. She had substantive answer to forces about Iran, Russia and domestic politics. I think she shined, I think Kasich shined. I think he looked pretty bad.

HARLOW: But then Ben, what has changed? Because what Marc is saying is that Trump didn't get any details on substantive issues. However, that's no different from the previous few months of his campaign and that put him at the top of the polls. So why is it different now.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Because I think early on it's a popularity contest. He who gets the most coverage usually on its lease top of the polls. But when you stand on stage for three hours, it's really hard to fake it. There was a stretch on Wednesday when he didn't speak for more than 30 minutes when they were dealing with policy issues. That is obviously his weakness. The reason he wasn't talking or interjecting when we was the front runner because obviously you can do that. You have the ability if you are the frontrunner to jump in and say here's my point of view.

He didn't have anything to offer in those moments and I think the candidates saw that as a weakness in his campaign, but maybe the people who was watching television saying after you get past all of the rhetoric, we're going the make America great again, we're going to build a great wall and I'm going to make Iran few and Vladimir Putin is going to be terrified of us. Is there actual substance there. And that's been put into question. And I think that's why you saw him drop 8 points. He still is the front runner. But those that were paying attention Wednesday night did not exactly like him as much as they did maybe before Wednesday or people that were on his campaign decided maybe he's not the guy I thought he was.

HARLOW: This CNN poll out today shows 31 percent of people, the most thought that Trump did the worst job in the debate, 52 percent feel Fiorina did the best job. So Marc, let's talk more about Carly Fiorina. A few points stood out at the me debate, knowledge on foreign policy. He talked about losing a child to drugs and she talked about her answer to who should go on the $10 bill. She said don't change history for women. Change the future for women.

HILL: She said all of right things. People often expect candidate to pander to women. She did neither. I any in some ways she probably satisfy many men in her base by saying hey, I don't want that kind of solution. Again, I disagree with her but I think it was a strong strategic move. She may be sincere about it. She answered the HP question for the millionth time. We expect Donald Trump's explanation of his bankruptcy but we push Carly Fiorina in another way at her backup success at HP.

HARLOW: Well, you did have -- I don't know -- Marc, I don't know that we accept the answer. Bankrupt. He legally filed four times for corporate bankruptcy. But 30,000 jobs weren't lost as a result. Yes thousands of jobs were lost closing the casinos. Do you think we're pushing Fiorina harder on that front than Trump?

FERGUSON: I think people are pushing Carly Fiorina on this point because they don't like corporate America. Donald Trump has been able to be a reality TV star that's a billionaire and separate himself in a different way. People don't look at him as a CEO. They look at him as a multibillionaire, a mogul. Whereas he is a CEO. They don't like companies and corporations because somehow they feel like they always get rich and other people get hurt.

[18:10:00] But I also think Carly Fiorina has been very smart in her response here. People sometimes fail. You look at her overall story. She started as a secretary and worked her way up. It's OK to fail. I think that connects with people. She has not overstated her resume or been, you know, one that's pumping herself up to big going I was a CEO of this amazing company. She said look, I came as a secretary and built my way up. She's been canned did about what happened at HP and not everyone has a perfect career. From her perspective she handled it well.

HARLOW: She also pointed out, guess who else got fired, Steve Jobs from Apple before they brought him back. Good company in that respect.

Thank you both. Stay with me, Ben and Marc. Coming up next, we're going to talk about Donald Trump and this conversation, his comments about, you know, how he's responding to that person at the town hall calling the president a Muslim and not an American. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. We are talking presidential politics with our CNN political commentators, Marc Lamont Hill, of DEP news host and Morehouse College professor and Ben Ferguson, host of the Ben Ferguson show. To both of you, the incident we saw on Thursday, the town hall, a man says to Donald Trump, we have to do something about Muslims in the country.

The president is a Muslim, he's not an American, and Trump doesn't come out and say anything about it. Well he responded this morning in a number of interviews. And I want to play you this from NBC's "Meet the Press" when he was asked if he would be OK with a Muslim president. I believe this might be Ben Carson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC HOST: Can you imagine supporting or being comfortable if a Muslim ever became president of the United States?

TRUMP: I can say that, you know, it's something that at some point could happen. We'll see. You know, it's something that could happen. Would I be comfortable? I don't know if we have to address it right now but it is certainly something that could happen.

TODD: You said you had no problem putting a Muslim in your cabinet.

[18:15:00] TRUMP: Some people said it already happened frankly, of course you wouldn't agree with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Marc, your response.

HILL: One, it was a classic Trump nonanswer. But on top of that, he again implied that Barack Obama is not what he said he is. The issue for me isn't saying that Barack Obama is Muslim. I don't consider Muslim to be a slur even though Trump and his followers think it is. But the fact that he said that and misemployed that to me is again, it's a dog to his base but it's also another offensive of Islamophobia.

That's what's troublesome to me today and what was troublesome about what happened on the stage earlier in the week. Trump doesn't represent the character necessarily to be president.

HARLOW: Ben, at the same time, you're looking at the makeup of the electorate where 43 percent are republicans and 54 percent of Trump supporters believe the president is a Muslim and these are people that do not support the president. Is this all strategy for Trump?

FERGUSON: I don't know if it's strategy for Trump as much as it is he doesn't like Barack Obama, he has questions about him and he was willing to campaign on those questions, whether it be the birth issue, whether he's a Muslim, a Muslim sympathizer, not been tough enough on Al Qaeda or ISIS. That is a narrative that Donald Trump is comfortable with continuing to push out there. I think the easiest way to answer this question is to say judge a man based on the individual and his character. You can be a man or a woman that I would never support and it may have

nothing to do with your religion. But I think you can see with Trump, he does want this to be a campaign issue in some capacity, whether that's to garner votes or not. With Donald Trump, honestly, I really don't know his strategy because I'm not sure he knows on this issue.

HARLOW: I want you both to listen to what Ben Carson also said this morning on "Meet the Press." He said he's not ready to see a Muslim president. Let's roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP

TODD: So do you believe that Islam is consistent with the constitution?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I don't. I do not. I would not advocate that he put a Muslim in charge of this nation. I absolutely would not agree with that.

TODD: Would you ever consider voting for a Muslim for congress?

CARSON: Congress is a different story, but it depends on what that Muslim is and what their policies are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Also want to add to that, Marc, to you, the Council on American Islamic Relations now calling on Ben Carson just now to withdraw from the pace over those comments.

HILL: He should. This is one of the more disturbing and shameful dimensions of the election so far. I mean it's really disgusting what Ben Carson said and did there and it's also contradictory. He said that a Muslim identity or an Islamic faith is inconsistent with the constitution, yet he's saying he would allow anytime the congress. The congress has the responsibility to uphold the constitution just as much as the president does. He also didn't articulate why he doesn't think a Muslim is able to uphold the values of the nation.

HARLOW: I'm sure he'll be asked that in his next interview. Ben, is this something -- do you agree with Marc, he should withdraw over this?

FERGUSON: Absolutely not. I think you can have an opinion on an issue like Ben Carson does. It doesn't mean that just because you disagree with somebody that it should disqualify them for the White House. I think it's a very fair question to ask of anybody. If there is somebody else that you believe their religion is something to be cautious of band there are a lot of negatives associated with it, do you want that person in charge of the United States of America?

I don't find that a question that's shocking. I think we're obsessing over the Muslim aspect of it. I feel most comfortable having someone in the White House that believes in the values that I believe in. Does that mean I'm against all other religions besides my own? It means I would prefer to have someone in there that has something close to me.

HILL: Ben Carson should hire you to be his campaign spokesman what you said is far different and nicer than what Ben Carson said. He said that a Muslim, their values are inconsistent with the values of the constitution and that they cannot lead the nation.

FERGUSON: I think...

HILL: Hold on.

FERGUSON: Let me respond to this by saying simply...

HILL: I want to ask you a question before you respond. In Al Sharpton in the mayor in 2008 said that a you should not be president, shade that a you does not have the values to be a president, would you be just as generous to him as you are to Ben Carson right now?

[18:20:00] FERGUSON: I would strongly disagree with what he said, based on the fact they would have no problem with someone being a you in the background. I am a friend of Israel. And there are a lot of people in this country that do not believe that someone that's Jewish should be in the White House. We've seen that happen...

HILL: That's wrong.

HARLOW: And yet faith -- guys I have to leave it there. Just remember, faith is supposed to not be, well, you know, no religious test for someone running for the presidency. Of course faith is part of it. But no religious test. Ben Ferguson, Marc Lamont Hill, thank you very much.

Ben Carson does not think a Muslim is fit to be president. We're going to get reaction from the only two members of congress who are Muslims straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Two Americans held hostage for months by Houthi rebels in Yemen have been released. One of them has been identified as 45-year- old Scott Cardin, his wife telling us that she spoke to him and he feels elated and overjoyed to be in Amman. An individuals were being held captive but officials do not have an update on the third captive. Nick Paton Walsh has the latest for us.

[18:25:00] NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This flight ending a month's long ordeal for two Americans. Scott Cardin but also a man known as Samferren. Mr. Dardin was there. The fate of a third American unclear at this stage. There was confusion this day as to whether or not there were three Americans on board.

On that plane as well, as many as three Saudi nationals and a UK official confirming to the Nae there was a Britain traveling on that plane as well. And when he landed he received assistance from the British embassy there. Clearly this tense set of negotiations, the Amman any officials apparently involved as well as Americans have brought these two individuals plus other to safety. We understand that perhaps a Houthi delegation were on board the plane traveling to Amman as well. The Houthis have been in a month's long civil war.

Now against a Saudi Led coalition backing the former yes, Ma'am any government in Yemen. Houthis have been losing ground. They're now encircled and

heavy bombarded and the U.N. trying to broker a peace. This is perhaps a good will gesture to get the peace talks started. Again this may happen in the days ahead or it may not. Diplomat that I spoke to is not optimistic. But civilians losing their lives frequently in Yemen, 2,000 so far, a total of 5,000 having died in this conflict. But today for two American families, at least some good news. Their loved ones now in safety.

HARLOW: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much.

Pope Francis turning his attention from Cuban's leaders to the next generation. You're looking at live pictures out of Havana this evening where the pope is holding evening prayers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:34] HARLOW: Pope Francis on day two of his historic trip to Cuba. You're looking at live pictures from inside of a Havana cathedral where he is delivering a homily before local priests and nuns and the public.

A short time, and a short time from now, I should say, he is expected to meet with Cuban leaders.

Ed Lavandera is in Havana right now.

He did meet with Cuban leaders, I should say, earlier today. But tonight after this he's going to meet with the young folks, the youth of Cuba. Do we know, Ed, anything about what he's going to say to them, especially given sort of the very different future that they will face in terms of the relationship with the United States, something that this Pope helped to broker?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, this is always one of the more interesting parts of this Pope's journeys when he makes these visits because in many ways it's kind of stripped down from the formalities that comes with the business of being Pope.

HARLOW: Right.

LAVANDERA: So it lends him the opportunity to do what he necessarily can't do in a mass. So what we expect to see, very much, these are the kinds of things that -- the parts of his day that he loves to do the most. And this event is significant because the Vatican brought in a Wi-Fi system essentially and encouraged these young people to send out messages via social media to the rest of the world.

Significant because Cuba is one of the most disconnected countries on the planet. So this kind of access to good Wi-Fi and highly connected Wi-Fi is something that, you know, the rest of the world may take for granted in 2015 but is a very unique opportunity for them. So this is something, you know, it will be interesting to see just how off the cuff the Pope goes on this. He doesn't necessarily always follow the script when he's meeting with the younger people. So it will be interesting to see how things unfold here this evening.

HARLOW: Yes. Absolutely. Today, if we have this picture of his meeting with Fidel Castro, let's pull it up so people can see, because it's certainly a picture that will go down in history. What do we know about this meeting?

LAVANDERA: You know, we know that it was about 45 minutes long. Fidel Castro, this was at his house, some of his family members were there. It -- the meeting was described as informal and friendly. Wasn't exactly clear when this meeting was going take place so we didn't really -- we were told that at one point they wanted to meet and they were trying to make those arrangements but it wasn't anything that was fully firmed up.

HARLOW: Right.

LAVANDERA: And as soon as Pope Francis left the Plaza of the Revolution here, we found out a few hours later that after he left the mass here this morning, that is when he went and made his visit with Fidel Castro.

And then later on in the afternoon, Poppy, the more formal event with Fidel Castro's brother, Raul, who's the current leader of Cuba. And that was the formal heads of state meetings between Vatican officials and the Cuban government.

HARLOW: We'll be watching for more history to be made. There you see him sitting earlier today with Raul Castro.

Ed Lavandera, enjoy the assignment. I'm sure it is fascinating. Thank you.

LAVANDERA: You got it. Thank you.

HARLOW: Joining me now from Boston, Father J. Bryan Hehir. He is professor of Religion and Public Life at Harvard University.

Thank you for being with me.

FATHER J. BRYAN HEHIR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you. Glad to be here.

HARLOW: Let's pull up these live pictures of the Pope holding this vesper service in Havana. Can you talk to us about the significance of it?

HEHIR: Well, I think the significance has to be seen in light of the history of the last 50 or 60 years, since the 1960s. Certainly the relationship between the United States and Cuba has been conflicted and difficult for the Cuban people but also difficult for the United States. And so first of all, we have a long-term problem that has found a new resolution. The people who were involved in bringing that new resolution about, of course, were primarily the political leaders of the countries. But the Holy Father played a crucial role with personal letters to President Obama and to Mr. Raul Castro.

HARLOW: Right.

HEHIR: So he played a role in what is happening today. Now in terms of the church in Cuba, it has been a very, very difficult time for the church. There was a breakthrough at the time of John Paul II's visit. But this opens the door to a much different future I would think for both the church and U.S.-Cuban relations.

[18:35:04] HARLOW: Yes. And it's an absolutely beautiful image to see as we watch this vespers service going on. You have said the Pope's first months, just his first months, you know, have had more of a global impact than the first 100 days of FDR's presidency or the first 1,000 days of JFK's presidency. Explain why.

HEHIR: Well, I think the scope of his potential is larger in one sense. Even great presidents like President Roosevelt and President Kennedy were presidents of one country. Clearly the most significant political and military and economic country in the world for sure. But the Pope is speaking to literally a global audience, cutting across nations, cutting across politics. And I think his initiatives, were what I was referring to, that if you look at the change of things that he opened up in the first six months of the papacy in an institution that does not change easily. That's also part of what I meant was the challenge of bringing about change in the Catholic Church is different than a complex society.

HARLOW: Sure, well, it's interesting because you've also said that Pope Francis, quote, "stands on the growing edge of Catholic social tradition." Is that what you're referring to?

HEHIR: Yes. The social teaching of the church is one dimension of its total doctrinal and moral teaching. It is part of the moral teaching. It is a tradition that has changed particularly in the last century and a half as we move from the industrial revolution through the 20th century and into post industrial societies, like the United States, and then the end of colonialism in the southern hemisphere. We changed as a world over that 150 years and the social teaching has changed.

HARLOW: Sure.

HEHIR: Pope Francis is building on that previous teaching but he's introducing his own way of looking at things.

HARLOW: Yes. He certainly is. It is fascinating and remarkable to watch on this trip, a historic one in Cuba, and as he comes here to the United States.

Father J. Bryan Hehir, thank you so much.

HEHIR: Thank you.

HARLOW: Pope Francis ha about just 23 million Twitter followers. Up next, is the social pope connecting with Catholic youth in America? Next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:41:21] HARLOW: Pope Francis once called the Internet a gift from God. Right now Cuba's government is giving crowds a rare treat, opening up Wi-Fi signals especially for this meeting the Pope has tonight with the youth. The government encouraging Cubans to send messages of welcome to the Pope. He is a social media superstar. He has many accounts in several different languages, have about 23 million followers on Twitter.

Joining me now, CNN senior director of social media, Samantha Berry.

Thank you for being here.

SAMANTHA BERRY, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL MEDIA: Hi.

HARLOW: You're certainly adept at social media. Let's talk about the meeting tonight, though, with these youth. Because this comes in a country where Wi-Fi access is usually so restricted.

BERRY: Just to put it in context, Cuba has some of the lowest connectivity in the world. In July they opened 35 Wi-Fi public access spots. But they're too expensive for your average person in Cuba. They cost $2 an hour and the average person in Cuba earns $20 a month.

HARLOW: Wow.

BERRY: So there is definitely this turning point with the Pope's visit where you see it in countries, it's happened before, in Burma, in Myanmar where President Obama visited there, so does Hillary Clinton at the time. And that was almost a turning point of opening up these countries to communication.

HARLOW: And it changed it for the good?

BERRY: Exactly. What's been really interesting in seeing these pictures in Cuba is how many people have feature phones or smartphones. And they are taking to social when they can to express and welcome the Pope to the region.

HARLOW: This is the Pope who's considered the social Pope. What is it about him that allows him to so well connect especially with young people that, by the way, are leaving the church. These are people they need to get sort of back into the fold.

BERRY: He's got a great team. Let's be honest. It's not the Pope pressing the tweet button on these tweets. He's got nine different accounts on Twitter alone in different languages, he's got an Instagram account, he does Google Hangouts. We know he's not adverse to a selfie or two. He, though, has elevated social and digital and the teams that do that to a level where they have a lot of control in his inner circle.

And what he is really doing, if you just put -- you know, contrast Pope Benedict also had nine different Twitter accounts. He posted in his whole tenure 40 tweets. HARLOW: Oh no.

BERRY: This Pope has done 400 tweets. And they're really using social media to try not only get millennials but I think also get young parents in the U.S. because they're the people that will make a decision if they're Catholic, whether they baptize their children.

HARLOW: Yes.

BERRY: Now the next generation will be Catholics. And so they're really, really -- they're good at getting an authentic voice on social. Really authentic.

HARLOW: Yes. It's better (INAUDIBLE). Then that makes a world of difference. It's fascinating to follow.

Samantha Berry, thank you so much, as always.

Tonight Hollywood -- we're not there. Sam and I aren't at the Emmys but a lot of pretty people are. Hollywood celebrates the best primetime television has to offer. We're talking about the 67th Annual Primetime Emmy Awards which are voted on by the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. Former "Saturday Night Live" alum Andy Samberg is hosting tonight. No doubt it will be a good ceremony. So that is ahead. You're looking at live pictures of the red carpet right there from Los Angeles.

Coming up next, could shaming companies be the answer for income equality for women in America? My next guest thinks, yes, that's the answer. She joins me ahead.

[18:44:44]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: It is kind of unbelievable, isn't it, that it's still happening, that women here in the United States are making less money than men for doing exactly the same work? The Equal Pay Act was signed in 1963 by President Kennedy but studies show we are still not there. So perhaps it's time to start shaming companies into paying us equally.

Joanne Lipman is a former editor at the "Wall Street Journal." She was an editor at Conde Nast Portfolio. She recently published on op- ed on exactly this, in the "The New York Times" calling on companies to expose the gender gap. It says, in part, "Require companies to publish their gender pay gap. Think about it, calling out executives for making too much money. Well, at most embarrass a few suits but to calling out companies for paying women too little will help millions and perhaps craft one of the most intractable problems of our time.

Joanne Lipman joins me now. Thank you for being here. I loved this op-ed. Yes, you know, I think the question is why not make them put this data out there? However, some would say, you know, why is it more important to mandate them to release the gap than to just fix it? [18:50:12] JOANNE LIPMAN, FORMER EDITOR, "WALL STREET JOURNAL":

Right. So this is the first step, I believe, in fixing it, right? Because JFK tried to fix it, 52 years ago, right, with the Fair Pay Act of -- Equal Pay Act 1963.

HARLOW: Right.

LIPMAN: And it hasn't happened, so here's the thing. And certainly some companies and countries are actually starting to do this.

HARLOW: Britain.

LIPMAN: The UK is starting to do this. They have introduced a rule where large companies will have to publish their pay gap. And here's the interesting thing. Right? One, a couple of companies have now done this voluntarily and when they do it voluntarily, when you put sunlight on it, it forces them to act. And that is the way we can solve the problem.

HARLOW: That is the way. Let's look at some of the numbers because it's striking. These are numbers you quote in your piece from the "Harvard Economist." Female doctors and surgeons make only 71 percent of what their male counterparts make. Female financial specialists earn 66 percent of their male colleagues. What else struck you most in this in your research?

LIPMAN: OK. So this is really interesting because what we're seeing here is we've all heard the big general figure which is women make 77 or 78 cents on the dollar per men.

HARLOW: Right. 77 cents on the dollar.

LIPMAN: Exactly. The problem with that figure, it's not apples to apples. And so people have said, well, that's only because women are nurses and men are doctors, but the fact is, there's new research that's coming out.

HARLOW: Right.

LIPMAN: And it controls for hours, for education, for identical jobs and for experience. And what it found is the gap still remains.

HARLOW: So not only did "The New York Times" publish your op-ed on this that was fascinating, I was also fascinated by the responses they published in the days after. Is there a response that stood out most to you, from sort of average women writing in from all over the country?

LIPMAN: Well, first of all, it's sort of a no-brainer to do this, honestly. And I was pleased to see that a lot of the response was yes, why not do this? And in fact I heard from company CEOs who are doing it. There are several companies out there now that are doing wage gap audits.

HARLOW: I know Sales Force is. Salesforce.com.

LIPMAN: Sales Force have talked it. Pinterest, GoDaddy, which was known for its sort of --

HARLOW: But these are all tech companies.

LIPMAN: They are all tech companies. But you know what, let's lead the way.

HARLOW: Yes.

LIPMAN: You can see what happened in the UK. A couple of companies did this voluntarily. One of them, a really interesting case, was PWC, PricewaterhouseCoopers. They did this in the UK. They found that they had a 15 percent gap between men and women, so they drilled down, interesting thing, they knew the figure internally. Once they published it, it really kind of forced them to act.

They drilled down and they found that it was because they had so few women in senior leadership and then that said to them, well, let's look at the level right below partnership level, and that was 30 percent female and let's look at how many were promoted.

HARLOW: Let's get that up.

LIPMAN: And they saw that they were only promoting 15 percent. Even though 30 percent were ready for promotions.

HARLOW: Wow.

LIPMAN: So they said, OK, we have to look at how we're promoting people, make sure that we're doing it fairly.

HARLOW: Yes. And kudos to companies that are willing to go on a limb and expose this data, sort of their shortfall publicly and then fix it.

LIPMAN: Exactly.

HARLOW: That's what we need.

Joanne Lipman, thank you very much. It's a fascinating op-ed. You can read it on "The New York Times" op-ed. And we'll see if companies follow suit.

LIPMAN: That's right. Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Thank you, Joanne.

He's known for going off-script. But what can we expect on this historic trip. Of course we are talking about the Pope and a look at the times Pope Francis has surprised us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:57:27] HARLOW: You're looking at live pictures of the Pope in Havana. He is sitting in front of a huge crowd of youth, of Havana's youth. He will address them in just a moment.

Let's keep in mind, this is a Pope who is so, so connected via social media. What will he say to these youth? Might it surprise us?

Well, our Jason Carroll takes a look at the ways that Pope Francis has already shown the world the many sides of his personality.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In just over two years, Pope Francis has shown the world how the leader of the Catholic Church can be compassionate, comedic, controversial, and captivating.

Here are some ways the pontiff has surprised us all.

For one he certainly hasn't been shy about getting up close and personal with his fans, from letting someone play with his cap and giving a pair of schoolboys a lift in the Pope Mobile to even posing in a few selfies.

And remember that homily when a young boy walked up on stage to get a closer look at the Pope, even kissing his cross? The pontiff didn't seem to mind. Several cardinals even tried to persuade the child to leave but he refused, instead, wrapping his arms around the Pope's legs and was then allowed to sit in his chair while the Pope gave a speech.

In an another endearing moment, Pope Francis clowned around with a newlywed couple and donned a red nose with the bride and groom.

And then there's the humble side of the Pope. At a detention center in Rome, he washed the feet of two women, ruffling the feathers of a few traditionalists. It is written in liturgical law that only men can take part in the ceremony, which reenacts Jesus washing the feet of his 12 disciples, all of whom were men.

In another sign of humility, Pope Francis embraced a disfigured man suffering from a genetic skin condition known as neurofibrometosis. The truly powerful image went viral.

Pope Francis has also made moves that have disturbed some conservatives who believe he's making too many changes too quickly. He authorized priests to forgive the sin of abortion and make it easier and faster to get an annulment. He issued a papal encyclical about the dangers of climate change, pleading for global action to help stop it.

In the wake of the attack on "Charlie Hebdo," the Pope condemned the violence but said there are limits to free speech. Someone says a swear word against my mother, the Pope said he is going to get a punch in the nose.

And throughout it all, Pope Francis has earned some interesting titles. In 2013, "Esquire" named him their best dressed man. And "TIME" gave him the iconic label of Person of the Year. "Rolling Stone" also elevated the pope to rock star status by making him the first religious head to grace the cover paired with the headline "The Times: They are A-Changing."