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President Obama Apologizes for U.S. Strike on Hospital; Donald Trump Leading Polls. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 07, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:04]

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But, as of 7:00 p.m. tonight, it will come to an end.

And, of course, for any family member who is looking to hear about the rescue of their loved one, this is exactly the opposite, and it is the worst possible news. We are told from family members who were in the room when that announcement was made that there was not a dry eye on any of them.

It is that horrible threshold of reality. What we're expecting is the Coast Guard to talk about that, talk about what they may have recovered or found. And this is also in joint work with the NTSB. So, we expect to get an update from the National Transportation Safety Board vice chairman as they head up their investigation.

There are two investigations really. There is one by the Coast Guard and then one by the NTSB. But only the NTSB will come up with the probable cause, in other words, try to determine exactly what happened to this vessel, why it did not make it to San Juan, Puerto Rico, which is where it was headed when it apparently ran head-on into Hurricane Joaquin -- Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. So, we're learning the search for survivors may be ending, but the search for answers, as you point out, Martin, continue.

And, Alexandra, on that note, what do we know about the status of the black box search?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This will now become the focus.

Earlier, we knew that they were certainly looking for these data recorders because they could hold some really key pieces of information about what was going on on the ship. But we also know that there was not the will to divert search resources which were going toward finding survivors into actually locating the ship and discovering these black boxes.

So, now if they're going to decide to move on from the rescue portion of this search, they can devote assets to trying to locate the ship and trying to locate the black boxes. They should be pinging by now. At the moment that they hit the water, they should begin to ping. These are devices that should record data for 12 hours prior to landing in the water.

So, it could give them a lot of information on a variety of different topics. These collect 14 different data sets that will give the NTSB some of the answers perhaps as to why this ship lost propulsion at the time that it did.

BROWN: We do know -- let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CAPT. MARK FEDOR, U.S. COAST GUARD: The Coast Guard is still continuing its search for the crew members of the El Faro. However, we have decided that we will suspend that search at sunset tonight.

Any decision to suspend a search is painful. In this particular case, we were searching for fellow professional mariners. We were also searching for members of the extended Coast Guard family. One of our Coast Guard petty officers, chief petty officers, had a brother that was on the El Faro.

I received an e-mail yesterday from one of our civilian employees at the Coast Guard yard in Baltimore, Maryland, and he told me that his family friends, good family friends, that he saw one of the crew members come home as a baby, saw him grow up, saw him go off on El Faro.

So, those type of things make it very personal as we search. But I know that the Coast Guard along with our brethren in the Navy and the Air Force, as well as the commercial tugs that were out there helping us search, did all they could in this search effort. They did all they could.

Our Coast Guard crews, our aircraft flew repeatedly into that storm at dangerously low altitudes to try to find the ship, find survivors. On Sunday, one of our helicopters flew for 11 hours, over 11 hours, including two in-flight refuelings, because they wanted to keep that search going during the best search opportunity that we had on Sunday.

Our cutter crews, as soon as they arrived on scene, it was an all- hands effort. Folks who don't usually go to the bridge, engineers, cooks, did so. And they grabbed binoculars, night-vision goggles and would stay up there for hours scanning the horizon. It meant a lot to them.

I know -- I say all this because I want the families to really know how committed we were to finding their loved ones, to finding our fellow professional mariners and really to find those who go down to the sea in ships and do work upon great waters. I hope the families can take some small measure of peace from that.

So, as most of you know, there will be an investigation now that the official search will be suspended at sunset tonight. And I would like to introduce Vice Chairman Dinh-Zarr from the National Transportation Safety Board, who will make a statement as well.

BELLA DINH-ZARR, VICE CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Good afternoon. I'm Bella Dinh-Zarr, vice chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board.

[15:05:01]

As reported last night, investigators from the NTSB arrived on scene here in Jacksonville yesterday morning, and we began our on-scene investigation of the sinking of El Faro that occurred on October 1.

Before I tell you about our investigative process, I want to extend our condolences on behalf of everyone at NTSB to the families and friends of the victims of this tragic accident. And we along with all of you were very saddened to learn that no survivors have been found.

Our transportation disaster assistance or family assistant group has been tirelessly working with the teams that have already been provided by the U.S. Coast Guard and by TOTE to assist and inform the families. And they will continue to do this. They will continue to support all the families with missing loved ones throughout our investigation, both here on the scene and as the accident investigation progresses.

As I have previously mentioned, although both the NTSB and the U.S. Coast Guard have the authority to conduct marine casualty investigations, the NTSB is the lead agency on this accident investigation.

I would like to explain a little more in detail about the NTSB's party process, which we have had in place for over 30 years. The NTSB offers party status to those companies, governments, and associations that have employees, facilities or equipment that are involved in this accident.

We offer party status to these organizations, because they can provide the technical expertise and the relevant information supporting the development of the best factual records that we can get.

We have established parties to this investigation, and the parties include the U.S. Coast Guard, the American Bureau of Shipping, and TOTE. The NTSB has put together a multidisciplinary team to investigate every aspect of this accident. The team is led by Investigator in Charge Thomas Roth-Roffy to my right, who has extensive experience, longtime experience in marine investigations.

And he also has a group of highly experienced...

BROWN: You just heard there from the U.S. Coast Guard as well as the NTSB with a big announcement that the Coast Guard is now suspending the search at sunset for the ship that sunk a few days ago, according to the U.S. Coast Guard.

Alexandra Field joins me now.

You have been covering this story from the families from the very beginning. Obviously, this is devastating for the families.

FIELD: Yes.

They have been in agony for days. When you heard the Coast Guard speak just a couple of days ago about reaching the debris field initially, we heard from the Coast Guard about the conditions that these people would have been thrown into as the ship sank. And it was frankly very painful, certainly, you have to imagine, for the families to listen to that because the Coast Guard was explaining that these are people who would have been abandoning ship, abandoning a cargo ship that was sinking in the middle of a Category 4 hurricane.

So, waves were crashing more than 50 feet high. You had wind speeds more than 140 miles per hour. These are the same conditions that made the initial days of searching so difficult. It was nearly impossible to get the search teams to the area where they believed that the ship sank.

So, once the weather started to clear on Sunday, that's when you had the crews going in and beginning to find debris. They found one body. They had certainly hoped to find survivors. We have been learning about the stories of some of these people on board. You have 28 Americans, five Polish nationals. A woman was on board who had e- mailed her mother saying, we're heading into a Category 3 storm, send my love to everyone.

So, we're beginning to learn more about all of the people who were on board this ship and their families now being forced to struggle with the reality that this search is being suspended.

BROWN: Your hearts go out to them. And, of course, they are searching for answers as to how this happened, why did this happen.

Alexandra Field, thank you very much.

Billionaire Donald Trump, known for his spending, touted this afternoon how little his campaign has paid out for ads.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Politicians are all talk, no action. They don't get it done. And, by the way, I am funding -- as Sam told you, I'm funding my own campaign. I'm putting a fortune. I'm spending a lot of money, not as much as I thought, because, frankly, I'm getting so much publicity, I don't have to advertise so far.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: You know, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But, reportedly, he's planning to spend $20 million on "nontraditional ads." We will see if his poll results will get an even bigger boost, because a new poll out today says Trump is trouncing his rivals, along with Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton. It's happening in the key battleground states of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Since 1960, no one has ever become president without winning at least two of them. One week before the Democratic debate right here on CNN, Hillary Clinton is leading her closest rival by more than 10 percentage points in all three states.

[15:10:14]

And, of course, Joe Biden isn't even officially running, as Donald Trump continues to outdo his Republican competitors, including Governor John Kasich in his home state of Ohio, and Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio in Florida.

So, let's talk about all of this with chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Gloria, thanks for coming on.

Trump and Clinton reestablishing their leads in these key states. What do you make of that?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, they're the leaders in the national polls. It would make sense to me for them to lead in these three states. And let me point one thing out about Ohio.

No Republican ever wins the presidency without winning Ohio. So, it's key. And if Mitt Romney had won all of these three states, he'd be president of the United States right now. Another thing that's really important about Florida and Ohio is that they come later in March, March 15, and they are winner-take-all primaries.

It's not like early states, where you gather some delegates here and it's proportional here and there. These states are really important because you can scoop up a whole bunch of delegates, and so this is very good news for both of these candidates.

BROWN: Certainly, and not good news especially to Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, and John Kasich that they're not ahead more in the states that they represent. Right?

BORGER: No, it really isn't. Shows you the power of being outsiders, first of all.

Kasich would like to be number one in the state of Ohio. He's a very popular governor in that state, so I think that's disappointing to him. What's interesting to me about the state of Florida, if you look at it among Republicans, you know, you have Jeb Bush behind Marco Rubio, now, just a couple of points, but within the margin of error, but still that's not good news for Jeb Bush at all, because their strategy is to pick up will delegates, make this a long haul, and then, of course, win the state of Florida and get an awful lot of delegates.

So, if I were in the Bush campaign and I were looking at this polling in Ohio, where he's 4 percent or in Pennsylvania, where he's 4 percent, tied with Huckabee, of all things, I would be kind of scratching my head and saying, what is our candidate doing wrong? Because something is wrong there. BROWN: I think it's safe to say that.

Gloria Borger, we appreciate you coming on, giving your analysis.

BORGER: Sure.

BROWN: Thank you.

And up next, why is Donald Trump being so nice to Ben Carson? He's now defending his rival's remarks about what he would do in the face of a mass shooter.

Plus, breaking news involving the American strike on a hospital in Afghanistan, President Obama now apologizing for the attack.

And an American jet has a close encounter with a Russian fighter jet in Syria, this as Vladimir Putin escalates his war -- details on all of that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:30]

BROWN: New polls put pediatric neurosurgeon Ben Carson in a solid second place on the Republican side. But will his latest remarks impact that standing?

Carson is being criticized for saying he would have confronted the gunman who killed nine people last week at Umpqua Community College in Oregon. Here is Carson explaining himself on CBS this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: From the indications that I got, they did not rush the shooter. The shooter can only shoot one person at a time. He cannot shoot a whole group of people. And so the ideal is overwhelm him, so that not everybody gets killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, his prime rival, Donald Trump, is actually coming to Carson's defense.

Trump tweeted this today. Take a look -- quote -- "Ben Carson was speaking in general terms as to what he would do if confronted with a gunman and was not criticizing the victims. Not fair."

So let's discuss all of this now with conservative commentator and columnist Kurt Schlichter and CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill.

Kurt, first to you.

Do you think that Ben Carson could turn off voters with those remarks, who could perceive them as blaming the victims?

KURT SCHLICHTER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Oh, absolutely not, Pamela. That's just crazy talk.

Look, the fact is when something bad happens, it's up to us as adults to attack. The first strike in the war against terror wasn't done by our great Navy SEALs or our great Army or Air Force. It was done by innocent civilian Americans on United Flight 93, when they faced the enemy and they took action.

In this case, it's important that all of us as adults look out for our brothers and sisters and take action. Sometimes, you have got to fight. It's not fair. It's not right. But that's the way it is. And as Americans we need to stand up to criminals, terrorists and other people who would hurt our fellow Americans. Dr. Carson was absolutely correct.

BROWN: So, Marc, is that crazy talk to say that those comments could be perceived as blaming the victims?

(CROSSTALK)

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No, that's not what crazy talk is. What he just said is crazy talk.

Look, Ben Carson wasn't blaming the victim. Let's be honest here. And that's unfair to Ben Carson. He was not blaming the victims. But what he was suggesting is that the best way to address this issue is not by having sensible gun control, but rather by somebody bum-rushing a guy with a gun.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Hey, Marc, pick up your mike. We can't hear you.

And, Kurt, while he's talking, I'm going to go back to you, because -- OK, Marc's got it.

[15:20:01]

To be fair to him, we're going to let him continue there. These things happen in live television. Go ahead, Marc.

HILL: They happen.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: So, basically, Ben Carson is not blaming victims.

But what he is doing is saying that we should attack somebody with a gun as the primary resolution to what is clearly a gun control problem. That's my fundamental issue with him.

What's wrong with the comparison you just gave, my friend, is that on a plane that is about to be crashed by terrorists, attacking the terrorists actually saves everybody. In this case, somebody would essentially be volunteering to die by rushing the guy with a guy. He can't shoot everybody, but if I rush the guy, he's probably going to shoot me. Ben Carson should focus more on helping lead the nation into a

sensible conversation about gun control, not getting rid of everyone's guns. That's a straw man and a red herring. Let's talk about sensible gun control, so things like this don't happen.

BROWN: Kurt?

SCHLICHTER: Oh, Marc, no, no, no.

Look, when we are faced with a crisis, when all hell breaks loose and there's an emergency, as adult Americans, we need to act. And sometimes you have to take personal risk to defend other people's lives.

Look, I'm a soldier. I swore to defend the American people and the Constitution. And even when I retired, my oath didn't expire. But I'm obligated not just because I took an oath, but because I'm an American and I look out for my brothers and sisters and fellow Americans. I have to act. Maybe I have to take a risk. Maybe I get killed. So what?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLICHTER: So what? You have got to defend ourselves and our brothers and sisters.

HILL: Kurt, if you're in the room with me and a guy pulls out a gun, you, my friend, have every right to rush. In fact, I hope that you get the short straw and do it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm not saying it's wrong to do it. I'm saying that it's not your obligation to do it. You're telling me, if there's a room full of people, everybody in that room is obligated to go on a kamikaze mission and rush the shooter?

But that is -- all of this is really not even the point. The point is, is that the right conversation to have after a mass shooting? Why not talk about gun control? Why not talk about getting guns out of people's hands so that we're not stuck in the ignoble paradox of deciding whether or not to die on the ground or to die bum-rushing a shooter?

SCHLICHTER: Well, look, it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees, Marc. Look, I have no doubt that...

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: It's better to die at 100 years old in an elderly center. I would rather die at 100 years old in an old folks home. That's an option if we take the guns out of shooters' hands.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLICHTER: No, no, no. Look, sometimes, it's not fair. Sometimes, it's not right, Marc. Sometimes, you have to act. And, sometimes, you're going to draw the short straw. And I think, as

Americans, we have forgotten that the world is a very tough and savage place. I walked through ruins and mass graves in Kosovo. I have seen what happens when armed people take on unarmed people and kill them.

And I'm not going to let that happen here. And if I have to give up my life, then I'm going to give up my life.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLICHTER: I don't want to die. I have a lot to live for. So do you. But, damn it, we can't give up in the face of terror. We never will. We never can.

HILL: Right.

SCHLICHTER: Dr. Carson is absolutely right.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: And the way to not give up in the face of terror is to take guns out of the hands of terrorists. In this case, this was a domestic terrorist who we could have disarmed perhaps through sensible legislation.

I'm not talking about just this case. I'm speaking in general terms here. So, for me, it's not a question of whether or not once of us should attack a shooter. It's, why are we talking about attacking shooters, instead getting rid of the guns so that we don't have a shooter?

BROWN: Kurt, what do you think about that, though?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Do you think we should be having more dialogue about what Marc points out, what to do about the fact that these guns are falling into the wrong hands?

SCHLICHTER: Look, Americans have the right to keep and bear arms. This idiot bought his guns legally. This idiot had a right to have guns until and -- until he decided to commit a crime.

HILL: You're proving my point.

SCHLICHTER: The bottom line is, Americans are not going to be disarmed, Americans are not going to give up their rights to protect themselves and their families because some creep decides to go on a shooting spree.

I don't understand why my right to protect my family, my community and my Constitution has to be infringed upon because some other idiot wants to kill me because I happen to be a Christian. That doesn't play. I only wish somebody in that school had carried a concealed weapon and knew how to use it and put a round through this degenerate's forehead and stopped this massacre before it happened. HILL: Yes, we have seen hundreds of mass shootings, and they don't

get stopped by some Rambo figure with a gun who happens to moonlight as a teacher.

SCHLICHTER: Well, that is not true at all, Marc.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I let you duke it out, but we do have to move on.

Kurt Schlichter, Marc Lamont Hill, thank you very much.

HILL: Pleasure.

SCHLICHTER: Thanks, Pamela. Thanks, Marc.

BROWN: Up next, President Obama now apologizing to Doctors Without Borders after a U.S. airstrike killed 22 patients and medical staff at a hospital in Afghanistan. Was it more than just an accident? Was it a war crime?

Glenn Greenwald joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:05]

BROWN: We just got word that President Obama has just apologized to the chief of Doctors Without Borders, whose hospital in Afghanistan was just decimated by U.S. airstrikes, a deadly raid that the U.S. now says was accidental.

The clinic, which lost 12 staff members in the attack that killed at least 22, renewing calls for a war crimes investigation against the United States military.

Joining me now to discuss this, Glenn Greenwald, co-founding editor of The Intercept and author of No Place to Hide: Edward Snowden, the NSA and the U.S. Surveillance State."

Glenn, thank you for coming on.

As we know and as you point out in your article, this story has changed several times now. What is your reaction to the president's apology today?

GLENN GREENWALD, THE INTERCEPT: Well, Doctors Without Borders, the organization that has run this hospital for five years, has made very clear that they're not most interested in hearing apologies or claims of mistake or collateral damage.

They want only one thing, and that is an independent, impartial investigation to find out what really happened here, who made the decision to bomb this hospital and what it is that they knew.