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Democratic Presidential Candidates Gear Up for First Debate; Ex-Staffer Says Benghazi Probe is Partisan; Showing Difference with Obama a Debate Strategy?; U.S. Planes Drop Ammunition to Syrian Rebels; Democratic Candidates Hone Their Policies on Syria, ISIS and Russia; Turkey Blames ISIS for Suicide Bomb Attacks. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 12, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:02] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hours from now, frontrunners Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders go head-to-head for the very first time. They'll be joined by rivals Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb. And what could be a major breakout moment? All of this as new polls show Clinton with a commanding lead in Nevada and South Carolina.

Let's bring in CNN's Jim Acosta now, he's live in Las Vegas, where final preparations are now under way.

Good morning, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. That's right. I don't have my tool belt on this morning, but we've got a lot of CNN crew members here putting together the debate stage.

The stage is almost set. You can see the podiums behind me. There are five podiums at this point. Obviously, that middle podium, that's for Hillary Clinton, the former secretary of state. She's the clear Democratic frontrunner right now. To her right will be Vermont senator, Bernie Sanders, the independent, self-described socialist who's really giving her a run for her money in a lot of different polls, especially in New Hampshire.

But there are other important early states to talk about and there are brand new CNN-ORC poll numbers to talk about this morning. In the critical, early state of Nevada, where we are this morning, if Democrats had their choice, right now they would choose Hillary Clinton by a wide margin. 50 percent for Hillary Clinton. 34 percent for Bernie Sanders. And the undeclared Joe Biden gets 12 percent. If Joe Biden decides not to run for president, Clinton's lead widens to 58 percent -- to 36 percent for Clinton.

And then down in South Carolina, I want to show this number because it's interesting. Biden does very well among Democrats in South Carolina. That is something to watch should the vice president jump into this race. Hillary Clinton with 49 percent. The undeclared Joe Biden 24 percent. And Bernie Sanders at 18 percent.

And over the weekend the DNC chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz will be here for the debate as well over these next couple of days, so she was asked, well, what happens if vice president decided at the very last minute he wanted to show up, all the indications are he won't, but what if he did want to participate in this debate? Here's what the chair of the DNC had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: We do know that he has been carefully considering whether he wants to run for president of the United States. And of course, in the Democratic primary, we would always have room and welcome the sitting vice president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And just to give you another look inside this debate hall, Carol, it's very impressive. Our CNN crews have been working very hard, day and night, over the last few days. You can see the chairs are in here. We didn't see this yesterday so the seating is almost set in here. And over on the far side to my left, you see this giant screen over here.

Don Lemon, who will be helping host this debate along with Anderson Cooper, Dana Bash and Juan Carlos Lopez, he'll be fielding questions from Facebook users who want to sort of participate through an interactive experience, asking questions of the candidates. They'll be pre-screened but coming from Facebook users, another part of this debate that would be fascinating to watch.

And, Carol, just a couple of flash points to talk about, Bernie Sanders in the last 24 hours, going after Hillary Clinton on her vote in favor of the Iraq war. Of course, Bernie Sanders against the Iraq war back in 2002. That's an indication that there might be some give- and-take on this issue. And then candidates like Martin O'Malley, who just hasn't gained any traction in the polls, you know he is looking for a breakout moment on Tuesday night. He's been starting to go after Bernie Sanders on gun control. Bernie Sanders a bit moderate because he's from a state of Vermont where gun rights is actually a big issue up there.

So that's a potential flash point as well. So a lot to talk about, a lot to discuss and it's going to be fascinating political television on Tuesday night, Carol.

COSTELLO: It will. I think those guys need some muscle behind you so I'll let you go help.

(LAUGHTER)

ACOSTA: Get off to it.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta live from Las Vegas.

ACOSTA: Here I come, guys.

COSTELLO: You go, Jim. The Republicans aren't just sitting back to enjoy the show. Oh, no.

The Republican National Committee is pre-butting the debate with an ad attacking Hillary Clinton's use of that private e-mail account when she was secretary of state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did not e-mail any classified material to anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A federal government watchdog has determined there was classified information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did, in fact, contain classified information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total lack of accountability. It's like, my problems have nothing to do with me. They have to do with the Republicans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're playing it up as if it was a partisan witch hunt.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: Now you have the FBI, the "New York Times" chasing this story.

WILLIE GEIST, MSNBC HOST: Those are not partisan organizations.

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST: You think the American public is that stupid?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It's something President Obama addressed on "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She made a mistake. She's acknowledged it. I do think that the way it's been ginned up is, in part, because of politics, and I think she'd be the first to acknowledge that maybe she could have handled the original decision better and the disclosures more quickly.

STEVE KROFT, CBS' "60 MINUTES": What's your reaction when you found out about it?

OBAMA: You know, this is one of those issues that, I think, is legitimate, but the fact that for the last three months, this is all that's been spoken about, is an indication that we're in a presidential political season.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:05:07] COSTELLO: But those e-mails are not only causing problems for Secretary Clinton, but oddly for Republicans as well. There are explosive allegations that Clinton and her e-mails have become the primary focus of the Republican-led Benghazi hearings. Those hearings already lasting a month longer than the Watergate investigation and costing taxpayers more than $4.6 million and counting.

As you know, those hearings are supposed to look at why Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans were killed at the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya. But one former investigator on that committee now claims what began as a search for truth turned out to be more of a smear campaign.

Chris Frates is here to tell us more. Good morning.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol. So a former staffer with the House committee investigating the Benghazi attacks says the panel's probe has become a politically motivated inquiry targeting former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. That's a politically explosive charge and is sure to resonate on the campaign trail as Clinton runs for president.

Major Bradley Podliska, an Air Force Reserve intelligence officer, says that after news broke earlier this year that Clinton used the private e-mail server the Republican-controlled committee set its sights almost exclusively on Clinton. Podliska says he was fired as a committee investigator because he resisted the pressure to focus on Clinton and because he took military leave. He says he plans to file a lawsuit over his firing and ask a court to give him his job back with back pay.

Now Podliska, a self-described conservative Republicans, tells our Jake Tapper in an exclusive television interview that what started as a broad probe into the attacks on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi became a, quote, "partisan investigation." Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER": What do you say to any viewers out there who think that you might have an ax to grind, that you're only talking because you were fired?

MAJ. BRADLEY PODLISKA, FORMER BENGHAZI COMMITTEE INVESTIGATOR: Like I said earlier, I have a conscience. I -- there's wrongdoing here and I think it needs to stop. And I do not want the investigation to end. I want the investigation to refocus back to its original purpose. The victims' families are owed the truth. Hillary Clinton has a lot of explaining to do. We however did not need to shift resources to hyper focus on Hillary Clinton. We didn't need to de-emphasize, on some cases drop the investigation on different agencies, different organizations and different individuals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: On Sunday, Republican committee chairman Trey Gowdy said that in a statement he never instructed he never instructed Podliska to focus on Clinton. Gowdy said Podliska, quote, "has demanded money from the committee, the committee has refused to pay him, and he has now run to the press with his new salacious allegations about Secretary Clinton." A spokesperson for the committee said in a statement that Podliska's claims are transparently false.

So, Carol, this is not the end of this. I'm sure we will hear more throughout the day.

COSTELLO: We'd love that. Thanks so much, Chris Frates.

When it comes to tomorrow night's debate, Benghazi and e-mails may not be the only things in focus. The candidates' policy prescriptions and how they differ from the current Democrat occupying the White House will also likely be on the agenda. The "New York Times" writes in part, quote, "In the seven years since Mr. Obama entered the White House on a wave of excitement, Democrats have developed a complicated relationship with their standard bearer, Mr. Obama's legacy and how much a Democratic successor should embrace it will hover over this debate."

Here to talk about that and more, Democratic strategist, Robert Zimmerman, and Nomiki Konst, executive director for the Accountability Project and a surrogate for the Draft Biden Movement.

Welcome to both of you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: OK, so let's start there. Do you think that the candidate on the stage, Robert, will distance themselves from President Obama? Will his name even be mentioned?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: They'll define themselves and introduce themselves around their own agenda. How do I deal with that? You know, whenever you have an incumbent president who has high national approval standards and is beloved by their party base, whether it was Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton, and now Barack Obama, clearly it's always a very -- it's always a sensitive maneuver.

But the important thing is -- I'm a Hillary Clinton supporter, but for each of these candidates they have to define themselves and the public understands that every election is about the future. And that's what they want to hear about. The candidates running this year can't campaign on the economy like it was 2009. We're a different stage.

COSTELLO: Well, that is true. But -- Nomiki, Hillary Clinton was part of President Obama's cabinet so she can't really escape her association with him, right?

NOMIKI KONST, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT: You know, I think that the only person on stage who will be trying to distance themselves from Barack Obama will be Hillary Clinton as much as she can. I mean, she has to be able to explain herself on TPP which the Democrats are very skeptical of, but at this point, her reversal of her support or her evolution of support on climate issues, of LGBT issues. These are all -- they have all been turning stones in Obama's administration.

[10:10:03] ZIMMERMAN: Nomiki, I don't want to -- I know you're looking for facts to justify your conclusions, but let's understand when you serve --

COSTELLO: Ouch. ZIMMERMAN: When you serve in the administration, obviously as she did

as secretary of state, you have an accountability to the president you serve for. And obviously, as she has grown over the years, as the president has grown over the years, that's not a liability. And now that she's a presidential candidate, she's going to be articulating her own agenda for the future. So I think it's perfectly acceptable and appropriate. The problem is when they don't evolve, and that's what the Republicans are all about.

COSTELLO: Well, I think that with the rising popularity of Bernie Sanders, though, Hillary Clinton has changed her positions from President Barack Obama, whose approval ratings are below 50 percent. Right?

KONST: But they're still strong within the Democratic Party. And let's not forget that President Obama does have a coalition of voters. He was able to turn out the African-American vote very well, which is a strong and -- millenials. Democrats can't win without those two factions. They can't win without a certain demographic of women voters. And Hillary Clinton needs those to win the primaries.

Now if Joe Biden does enter the race, there's a real potential that she could lose African-American votes in South Carolina and the south. She could lose union support. That is the number one reason why I think she's changed her position on TPP.

ZIMMERMAN: But -- but, Nomiki, let's also have a reality check about Bernie Sanders' popularity and Hillary Clinton's. The new CBS-"New York Times" poll that just came out yesterday shows Hillary Clinton is actually leading Bernie Sanders on his signature issue about the economy. And she's running even with him, as is Vice President Biden, when you ask, who do you trust to handle Wall Street and regulate the banking industry? She's running even with Bernie Sanders there. So her popularity remains remarkably high, especially despite the fact she's being --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, and Robert, I should make it clear, you're a very big Hillary Clinton supporter.

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I say that publicly. Yes.

COSTELLO: But let's talk about the polls for just a second because I think they're confusing right now. Right? So Bernie Sanders supposedly leads Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire but Bernie Sanders is from Vermont. Shouldn't we expect that, right?

KONST: She won New Hampshire last time so, you know, she has an edge as well. If you want to look at polls, last week alone, in one week, Hillary Clinton dropped 10 points among Democratic voters. That's huge. And you have to be hiding under the sand with your neck in the sand if you don't take those polls seriously. And as we approached these debates, she really has to find herself in a unique position where she's able to defend her record, her husband's record, which I still think she's running against right now, on stage with people like Jim Webb, who's going to hit her hard.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: And Nomiki --

KONST: Lincoln Chafee who --

ZIMMERMAN: And Nomiki, the CBS poll that came yesterday, you see this national poll, she was ahead by 19 points over the entire Democratic field. And without Vice President Biden, she was ahead by 24 points.

KONST: But she still dropped 10 points.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, because --

KONST: That's important.

ZIMMERMAN: Here's the reality of national polls at this stage. They're all political Viagra.

(CROSSTALK)

KONST: But --

ZIMMERMAN: They rise artificially and they come down real fast. Let's put them in perspective.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Well, I like that but I have to remember that and put that in my memory bank.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

COSTELLO: Political Viagra.

ZIMMERMAN: And good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning, right.

(LAUGHTER)

Nomiki Konst, Robert Zimmerman, thanks to both of you.

KONST: Thank you.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, as the fight against ISIS heats up over there, get ready for a big foreign policy face-off over here. Yes. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:17:20] COSTELLO: New this morning we learned U.S. cargo planes have dropped 50 tons of ammunition to Syria rebels in the northern part of that country. It's the first step by the Obama administration to find new ways to support those rebel groups.

CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon with more. Good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You'll recall last week the administration announced a new policy for helping equip Syrian rebels in northern Syria. This now the first step in really what has become an urgent effort to overhaul the U.S. relationship with the Syrian rebels.

The existing program was not working to train and equip them, so now these air drops of ammunition that were very badly needed by Syrian rebels up along that northern border between Syria and Turkey. Some 50 tons, small arms ammunition, hand grenades, that sort of thing. The rebels are reported to have gotten all the pallets of equipment and ammunition that dropped and now moving out into the field to continue their fight against ISIS.

All of this also as the Russians continue their build-up and their strikes. Another round of talks over the weekend between Moscow and Washington, the two militaries talking about how to de-conflict the air space when they're both up there, how they can both be up there and stay safe, but we are told no agreement yet on that. More work, they say, needs to be done -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Barbara Start reporting live for us.

Last night President Obama assured the American public that Russia is not leading in Syria. During a sit-down with "60 Minutes," the president defending his Syrian decisions and addressing those who have criticized him for withdrawing troops. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We have an enormous presence in the Middle East. We have bases and we have aircraft carriers and our pilots are flying through those skies. And we are supporting Iraq as it tries to continue to build up its forces. But the problem that I think a lot of these critics never answer is, what's in the interest of the United States of America?

And at what point do we say that here are the things we can do well to protect America, but here are the things that we also have to do in order to make sure that America leads and America is strong and stays number one.

And if in fact the only measure is for us to send another 100,000 or 200,000 troops into Syria or back into Iraq or perhaps into Libya or perhaps into Yemen, and our goal somehow is that we are now going to be not just the police, but the governors of this region, that would be bad strategy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [10:20:11] COSTELLO: As the nation's former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, is prime to talk all things Syria, ISIS and Russia, she would seem to have the upper hand in the first Democratic debate.

So how will foreign policy play out when the candidates face off tomorrow?

Our national political reporter Maeve Reston is in Las Vegas ahead of the showdown.

How do you suppose it will go? Because when you think of Bernie Sanders you don't think about him, you know, on an international scale, perhaps.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: You don't. But you also have to think about the fact that Hillary Clinton has been under attack by the Republicans for many months now for her record on foreign policy. And, obviously, on Syria, that's one area where she's really tried to differentiate herself from Barack Obama. That was one of the first points of policy differences that she talked about last year. And she is more hawkish than Bernie Sanders on that, and so it's going to be really interesting to see that debate unfold here tomorrow night.

Also on the Iraq war, we know that Bernie Sanders is going to be going after Hillary Clinton, just as Barack Obama did in 2008 on her Iraq war vote. We know that they are planning to highlight his speech in 2002 where he said it would look to be one of the biggest blunders in history and so it's going to be a really fascinating conversation. And just to see where the Democratic electorate shakes out so long after 2008.

COSTELLO: What about the other candidates? Might they, for lack of a better term, throw a bomb in the argument between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton?

RESTON: Well, I mean, that's going to be the whole game here, right, for them tomorrow night. Obviously Martin O'Malley needs a breakout moment at this debate. He's been begging for more debates. And so you will see them probably pick apart pieces of her record as secretary of state. And she's got a very tricky line to walk there because obviously she needs to sound somewhat supportive of the administration but also show voters how her approach would be different from President Obama's.

So I think we will see a very spirited debate. And especially on domestic issues, too, where there really -- she's done some shifting, as you've been talking about, over the last couple of weeks.

COSTELLO: All right. Maeve Reston, reporting live for us from Las Vegas. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, her city's hosting tomorrow's debate on this stage, but who does Mayor Carolyn Goodman want to hear at Tuesday's face-off?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:55] COSTELLO: Turkey believes ISIS is behind the weekend bombings that killed nearly 100 people, though no group has claimed responsibility for those attacks. The prime minister says the Islamic extremist group is the focus of the investigation, though.

CNN's Arwa Damon live in Ankara with the latest. Hi, Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. They are focusing on ISIS at this stage. But they're also alluding to the fact that it could be a number of other organizations that were behind Saturday's devastating attack. The prime minister also saying that over the last few days they have arrested a number of individuals who they accuse of being members of or having links to ISIS, but not disclosing whether or not they were involved in Saturday's double suicide bombings that took place at the train station behind us where 14,000 people had gathered.

The death toll from that, the deadliest in Turkey's modern history. The nation still struggling to come to terms with what it has been through. Heartbreaking scenes at funerals. And also a lot of anger at demonstrations taking place throughout the capital and throughout the country. People demanding accountability from the government. The opposition pro-Kurdish group, the HDP leader, coming out very strongly, saying that the fault, the blame for this attack lies with the government.

That's something we have been hearing echoed by demonstrators as well who have been going so far as to call it a murderous government wanting, as I was saying, accountability. But also we've been hearing repeated cries for peace and unity. A woman who we met yesterday, as others were collecting the bodies of their loved ones, perhaps putting it best when she said, and she has witnessed the attacks, she said that at this stage what she learned from the violence was just how important it was for a country, a people to stand together.

But Turkey, unfortunately, sadly, very polarized at this stage by this violence and by the fact that it is becoming part of the political rhetoric between members of President Erdogan's government and various opposition leaders -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Arwa Damon reporting live from Turkey this morning.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. While Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are the Democrats grabbing most of the headlines, there are three other candidates who will grace tomorrow night's stage. Former Maryland governor, Martin O'Malley, former Rhode Island governor, Lincoln Chafee, and former Virginia senator, Jim Webb.

So with a smaller field and a lot more air time than their Republican rivals, could one of these gentlemen or ladies have their own breakout moment like Carly Fiorina?

Joining me now is Alan Schroeder, a journalism professor at Boston's Northeast University and author of "Presidential Debates: 50 Years of High-Risk TV."

Welcome, Alan. Are you there?

ALAN SCHROEDER, AUTHOR, PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: 50 YEARS OF HIGH-RISK TV: Yes, I am.

COSTELLO: Oh, good. You scared me for just a moment. There you are.

SCHROEDER: Yes.

COSTELLO: So Sally Kohn tells me she thinks this could be one awesome, exciting, substantive debate. What do you say?

SCHROEDER: Well, I hope so.