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Democratic Debate; Benghazi Ex-Staffer Speaks. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 12, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:30] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. And we're live. Great to be with you here on this it Monday. I'm Brooke Baldwin, live in Las Vegas on a beautiful Monday morning here. You're watching CNN's special coverage ahead of the big and first Democratic presidential debate.

It is just one day away. And as you know, it's Vegas, baby. This is a city known for big bets. And you have four presidential candidates, they're hoping to defy the odds by taking down the front runner who will be center stage amidst all those podiums, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Yes, you may be surprised that there are five podiums set up for tomorrow because Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have dominated Democratic headlines, fundraising and polling.

Now I want to get to some numbers here because this is also fascinating going into tomorrow night. A just released CNN/ORC poll shows Hillary Clinton solidly ahead here of Bernie Sanders and really the rest of the pack, both in these states, both in Nevada here and in the south, in South Carolina. They are among the first to hold primary elections. Both set for next February. So those are really important states here as we talk numbers. We'll talk about those poll results in moments.

But first to Jim Acosta, who's not too far away from here at the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas. Let's talk rules, Jim Acosta. What do they need to follow come tomorrow night?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

Well, this is Vegas, right, Brooke, there have to be some rules and there are ground rules for this debate. First, each candidate will have one minute to respond to each question that comes his or her way, then 30 seconds to respond to a rival who mentions his or her name during an answer. And then lights, not buzzers, will notify the candidate when he or she start to run out of time. But the moderator, Anderson Cooper, will have some discretion as to whether a certain candidate deserves more time to deliver that answer.

And, you know, Brooke, there are plenty of flash points to talk about here in Tuesday's debate here at the Wynn Hotel here in Las Vegas. One, we should talk about, in the last 24 hours, Bernie Sanders, you just mentioned him, the independent senator from Vermont, he's really been capturing the imagination of the progressive base of the Democratic Party. He's been saying in the last 24 hours that Hillary Clinton, she voted in favor of that Iraq War back in 2002. He was against it.

BALDWIN: Right.

ACOSTA: So sort of echoes of the 2008 campaign.

Also, I think it's interesting when you look at the debate stage, I was just inside. The podiums are all set up in there. Martin O'Malley, despite, you know, only being in the single digits in the polls, he's going to be standing right next to Hillary Clinton. That creates a huge opening, Brooke, for Martin O'Malley to really, you know, differentiate himself and perhaps have one of those breakthrough moments. And I suspect we might see that tomorrow night as well. It's - you know, it's one of those things. We go into these debates. We don't know exactly how it's all going to play out. Somebody might have that breakout moment that really changes the - changes the game as it might be here in Las Vegas, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You know, I'm sure there will be - I am sure there will be attacks from those three, Webb, Chafee and O'Malley. We'll get into that with my panel here.

Jim Acosta, thank you very much, sir, here in Vegas with me.

Let's just dig in now to the latest results from that poll we just showed you between South Carolina and Nevada. Also keeping in mind, you know, how the rest are doing both as we've seen in - in Iowa and in New Hampshire.

I have with me here, CNN political commentator Patti Solis Doyle, who was a campaign manager for the Hillary campaign back in 2008, her first attempt to become president. Also with us is, CNN political commentator Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist. And on my left, senior political analyst Ron Brownstein, who is editorial director at "The National Journal."

So let me turn to you first, sir, and as you this, because we know that Hillary Clinton, she - she's losing in New Hampshire.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

BALDWIN: She's basically neck and neck with Bernie Sanders in Iowa. But here she is huge, huge double digit ahead of him in both Nevada and South Carolina. That has to embolden her going into tomorrow night. Is this part of a southern strategy for her? What is this?

BROWNSTEIN: It's really a reality check on the nature of the modern Democratic coalition. Iowa and New Hampshire are nominist (ph) states in a Democratic primary because they're both over 90 percent white. And she is, even in these new polls, it is important that she is facing some resistance, significant resistance, among white voters in the Democratic primary. But she is dominant among minority voters among - and African-Americans in South Carolina, strong among Hispanics here in Nevada. And as you go forward, more of the states that matter, many more of the states that matter, are diverse than they are like Iowa and New Hampshire. This is a reality check, kind of putting in perspective, yes, Bernie Sanders is doing well in Iowa and New Hampshire but until he proves he can cross over and break into that large minority presence in the Democratic primary electorate, one-third of all the voters in '08 were Hispanics, African-Americans and other voters.

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BROWN: It's still a big uphill climb for him.

[14:05:02] BRAZILE: And what a difference it is from eight years (INAUDIBLE) Americans and Latinos. Look, I don't think these early polls will matter much beyond tonight because, you know what, this is an opportunity for not just Hillary Clinton to reintroduce herself, engage her opponents on the stage, but also put forward her agenda for the country that people haven't been hearing about it. We've been hearing about e-mails. We've been hearing about servers, as if many of us are IT, you know, nerds here. This is -

BALDWIN: What, you're not, Donna Brazile?

BRAZILE: No. Let me move - no. But this is really an opportunity for not just Secretary Clinton, Bernie Sanders. Ron is absolutely right, Bernie Sanders was arrested in 1963. He marched for civil rights.

BALDWIN: That's right.

BRAZILE: People in the black community don't know it. Immigration reform. We're in a state where this is a very diverse coalition. So it's a great opportunity. Democrats are going to debate ideas. We're not going to have a personality fight (ph).

BALDWIN: And also the others on the stage, listen, let's be clear, when you look at the Nevada poll as well, 58 percent of the people are undecided. And, you know, I think if we were walking about these streets, as I have been, trying to ask other people, do you know the names of the other people on this stage? I mean that's an important part that a lot of these other gentlemen will be sort of introducing themselves to Americas.

My question to you is, I want to throw to some sound. President Obama was on "60 Minutes" last night.

PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK.

BALDWIN: And he talked a little bit about - you know, at the end of this interview he said, yes, I believe if I were to run for a third term I would win. And I want to ask about this sort of intangible - the presence of - she laughs, but the presence of President Obama sort of on the stage as well. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think if you ran again and could run again and did run again, you would be elected?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do?

OBAMA: I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: How will, Patti, how will Hillary Clinton invoke the president on that stage tomorrow night?

DOYLE: Well, look, she's going to do it with what we've been talking about here, this broad coalition of Democratic voters that Barack Obama built in '08 and then expanded upon in 2012. Hillary has done a lot of work leading up to this debate that has pretty much gone unnoticed. She's (INAUDIBLE) -

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

DOYLE: She's rolled out Latinos for Hillary. She's rolled out Women for Hillary. She's met with the leadership of the Black Lives Matter. She's checked a lot of boxes walking into this debate. And so I think she's going to display tomorrow night her vast support among these - among this coalition.

BALDWIN: What about Bernie Sanders?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Because I know he said he won't be attacking her on the e- mails. He - you know, over that. I imagine he won't attack her on personality. But I imagine he could come forward and say, listen, I've been the person in the room the longest. All my years of service. How will we expect him to hit?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. No, I think - right, I think - I think the clearer, the safer lane for them to criticize her is on adjusting or flip- flopping her positions on issues. I think it is very hard, especially in light of the allegations by the former staffer, not to mention what Kevin McCarthy said, for Democrats to go -

BALDWIN: Benghazi committee member, the whistleblower (ph) Tapper interviewed.

BROWNSTEIN: Right. Right. Hard for Democrats to go into the e-mail issue. I think there's not a lot of appetite for that in the party. That doesn't mean that that issue has vanished or there would not be a concern for her in the general election. But I think it's tougher for them and I think a more easier for way for them to go after her is this argument that she has moved her positions. She isn't someone you can truly trust on these issues that we care about for the left.

BALDWIN: Martin O'Malley has done that. Let me play that for you. Martin O'Malley.

Do we have it, guys? OK, Martin O'Malley, also - also on the same note, you know, she was

one of the first people who came forward and said, yes, we should be arming the Syrian rebels and now no-fly zone. How will a Martin O'Malley or the others on stage, because you know they want to be talk about.

DOYLE: Right.

BALDWIN: What do they have to lose on the stage tomorrow night? They have to come out attacking.

DOYLE: Martin O'Malley has nothing to lose. He needs a make some noise. He needs to have a breakthrough moment, absolutely. The only issue that I have with Martin O'Malley is, he's previewing how he's going to attack her, which, you know, is not a smart thing to do on the night before a debate. So Hillary Clinton's going to expect it and she's going to have an answer for it.

Hillary Clinton is a fantastic debater. She's done this 26 times in '08 and she's a fantastic multicandidate debater, which is totally different than being one-on-one. You have to find where you can interject. You have to find out where - you need to optimize those opportunities that - when they're presented to you. And that's a hard thing to do.

BALDWIN: So when they hit - final question, when they hit -

BRAZILE: Right.

BALDWIN: Does she go above - go above the fray? How does she handle it?

BRAZILE: Look, look, she's battle tested. She can pivot. She can always talk about the Republicans while the Democrats - we're not going to sit there and what I call fight among ourselves. She can always pivot about the Republicans and she can also talk about her record. She's been in this fight for a long time. She's championed these issues. She's delivered for voters. And that's what people want to hear. I think she'll do very well at this debate.

BROWNSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Does - does she bring up Trump? The Trump hotel is looming large right across the street, shining gold.

BROWNSTEIN: I - that - that would make - a real interesting observation - a real interesting observation from -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: Obama '08 adviser who said that she was a very strong debater, but much better at talking to the existing electorate than talking to the expanding electorate. That's what Obama did to her in '08. That's the potential of what Sanders did - could do to her again this year. Bring in new voters. Can she - can she strike a chord that resonates not only with kind of conventional political participants - [14:10:17] BALDWIN: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: But those who may be drawn in by the excitement of something new and different and fresh. I think that's a real challenge for her tomorrow night.

BALDWIN: Ron and Patti and Donna, thank you all so much here in Vegas.

Again, we are just about 24 hours away from the big showdown in the building behind me.

Next, the bombshell that could play big tomorrow night. A former staffer, as Ron alluded to here, this former staffer made an explosive revelation about the investigation into Hillary Clinton when it came to Benghazi and what the committee was doing. We have more on that.

Also, Donald Trump has another encounter with a woman who is not a fan. Hear how he responded to her questions about her paycheck and her body.

And we will take you behind the scenes of the debate stage here at the Wynn Hotel, get a look at the first ever, wait for it, virtual reality debate in America. Oh, yes, this is CNN's special live coverage here in Las Vegas. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We'll be right back.

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[14:15:35] BALDWIN: You are watching CNN live here, special coverage. Check out the clock with me, 30 hours, 14 minutes, 30 seconds away here from the big first Democratic presidential debate here at the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas.

And I have to tell you, these explosive new allegations have just surfaced that could reshape the race for the White House. A former Benghazi investigator - this is a man who was fired - claiming to blow the whistle on what he's calling a smear campaign levelled against Hillary Clinton. He's is insistent that instead of a fact-finding mission into the deaths of four Americans inside the U.S. consulate there in Libya, the focus of this Republican-led panel is to trash Hillary Clinton. Here's what he told my colleague Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: In your view, your insider view, did the House majority staff on the House Benghazi committee use this committee for political gain?

MAJ. BRADLEY PODLISKA, FORMER BENGHAZI COMMITTEE INVESTIGATOR: I would state that this has become a partisan investigation. I do not know the reason for that. I do not know the reason for the hyper focus on Hillary Clinton.

TAPPER: Republicans are going to listen to you and think, oh, this is some liberal trying to get Hillary Clinton off the hook. Liberals are going to hear you and say, oh, look, see, he's exonerating Hillary Clinton. This committee is all political. And Hillary has nothing to explain. What's your message to these partisans?

PODLISKA: Hillary Clinton has a lot of explaining to do. We, however, did not need to shift resources and hyper focus on Hillary Clinton. We didn't need to de-emphasize, and in some cases drop the investigation on different agencies, different organizations and different individuals.

TAPPER: Do you think that the results of the committee, based on what you saw, will be fair, comprehensive, thorough, professional, honest?

PODLISKA: No, it's not possible. The victims' families are not going to get the truth. And that's the most unfortunate thing about this. And I know this because the nine months of research I had done is now lost. I have no idea where it is. And I know that I could give those victims' families an explanation, a pretty through explanation of why they were told that this attack was due to a video.

TAPPER: Why are you coming forward?

PODLISKA: I'm going to be honest with you, Jake. I'm scared. I'm nervous. I know that this is - you know, I'm going up against powerful people in Washington. But at the end of the day, I need to live with myself.

TAPPER: What do you say to any viewers out there who think that you might have an ax to grind, that you're only talking because you were fired?

PODLISKA: As I said earlier, I have a conscious. I - there's wrong doing here and I think it needs to stop. And I do not want the investigation to end. I want the investigation to be refocused back to its original purpose. The victims' families are owed the truth. And as it stands now, they're not going to get the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's discuss with Hilary Rosen, Democratic strategic and CNN political commentator. Also with me here in Las Vegas, Kevin Madden, Republican strategist and CNN political commentator.

Great to see both of you today.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Listen, great questions from Tapper toward this man, you know, essentially he was saying, I have a conscience. This is why I want to come forward. He calls himself, Kevin, a conservative Republican. Is this someone who truly has emerged and wants to blow the whistle and has a conscience now? Or is this someone who is just a bitter, fired employee?

MADDEN: Well, we don't know. I mean I think there are legitimate questions about his motives. I mean he - is in the process of filing a lawsuit. He was fired by the committee. He does make some allegations in there about resources being shifted inside the committee. You know, I doubt he was in the position to make a decision about those resources. He may have disagreed with them. But there are - but the chairman of the committee and others on the committee who have, I think, more authority, do have to confront these charges head on. And I think you did see that with Chairman Gowdy yesterday and the day before. You know, he's taking on some of these allegations and he does have to focus on what the goal of the committee was, was the goal of the committee will continue to be and that at the heart of it is a desire to get to the truth about what happened in Benghazi. I think as long as Chairman Gowdy does that, these allegations will be judged, I think, you know, accordingly by the public. And we can move on towards bringing the investigation to a complete (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Well, you hear Gowdy saying that, but then you also have Kevin McCarthy saying what he did the week before last -

ROSEN: Right.

BALDWIN: Specifically about Hillary Clinton. And then you have this whistleblower coming forward. This has to help her, correct?

ROSEN: No question. And, you know, in many respects, events have overtaken these - this committee. So you already had a bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report, investigation and report, essentially laying out what did happen, giving those families information. You had a State Department report. You had an independent investigation. So there's really nothing left on the substance to report.

[14:20:18] Kevin McCarthy, running for speaker, said last week, well, you know, we did this so that we could bring Hillary Clinton's numbers down. You know, he - he made the classic accident in Washington, he told the truth. And that - that means now Hillary Clinton's going to go before that committee, she's going to have the support of the entire Democratic Party. That committee is going to look like fools trying to rehash old things based on this new whistleblower. You know, this is a huge mistake for the Republicans and a huge opportunity for Hillary Clinton.

MADDEN: But they did find new information, though. The reason that - or one of the things that came out of this was the fact that Hillary Clinton had a private server. That was new information. So -

ROSEN: But it has nothing to do with Benghazi. They had all the Benghazi e-mails already.

MADDEN: It does - no, because when they asked to turn over - I don't want - it's probably not enough time to re-litigate here but -

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

MADDEN: Information about the e-mails that were turned over was also knew about - that e-mail - some of the e-mails weren't turned over. So they have found out new information here.

BALDWIN: On the e-mails - MADDEN: Right.

BALDWIN: President Obama's on "60 Minutes" and he did officially address this. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She made a mistake. She's acknowledged it. I do think that the way it's been ginned up is in part because of politics. It is important for her to answer these questions to the satisfaction of the American public and they can make their own judgement. I can tell you that this is not a situation in which America's national security was endangered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, yes, a mistake, didn't affect national security. Your reaction to that?

MADDEN: The president, while he made a very passionate defense, is not an impartial observer here. And I think the questions about whether or not there was national security implications and I think questions about some of the - some wrong doing, that's ultimately going to be up to the investigators.

BALDWIN: I want you to react to this new attack ad from the RNC in the wake of Jake's interview with the Benghazi committee, this fired Benghazi committee member. This is the RNC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did not e-mail any classified material to anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A federal government watchdog has determined there was classified information -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did, in fact, contain classified information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Total lack of accountability. It's like my problems have nothing to do with me, they have to do with the Republicans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're playing it up as it is a partisan witch hunt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now you have the FBI and "The New York Times" chasing this story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are not partisan organizations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think that feels condescending?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think the American public is that stupid?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: How - last question to you.

ROSEN: OK.

BALDWIN: How does she - she will be asked about this tomorrow night. How does she address it?

ROSEN: I think the same way she's been doing it all along. It was a mistake. People are looking at it. She did not create classified information and re - and e-mail it. She - you know, what the FBI found was there were a couple of e-mails that had sensitive information that were sent to her. So, look, what you - the president of the United States, who is not - I don't believe that he said this in a partisan matter. He cares about national security. No national security issue were at stake here. I just don't think voters ultimately really are going to care much about this and I don't think you're going to see Democrats attacking her for it tomorrow night.

MADDEN: I agree with that last part, but they do care because her numbers have suffered as a result.

BALDWIN: The trustworthiness.

MADDEN: Right.

BALDWIN: Everything else.

Kevin Madden, Hilary Rosen, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

MADDEN: Good to be with you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Donald Trump, he opens the door to questions today in New Hampshire, gets some pretty challenging ones, including several from one woman who, as you will see, is clearly not a fan of Mr. Trump's. We will show you what happened there.

Plus, Aerosmith's Steven Tyler taking on Trump for playing "Dream On" at campaign events. Hear why.

This is CNN's special coverage of the first Democratic face-off live in Las Vegas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:21] BALDWIN: And we're in Vegas. And, of course, as we're getting ready here, 30 hours away from the first Democratic presidential debate here at the Wynn Hotel, let's not forget, the Republican candidates are out and about as well on the trail. You have frontrunner Donald Trump making an appearance just a short time ago at an event in New Hampshire. This is at the No Labels Convention. This is a group that pushes for a bipartisan, civil approach to politics. And there was a woman who was in that audience who challenged Trump on his support of women and specifically women's health. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you can prove me wrong, but I don't think that you're a friend to woman. How - what - it -

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I knew I shouldn't have picked her. I knew I shouldn't have picked her. All right, so let me give you that answer right now.

I respect women incredibly. I have had women working for me in positions that they've never worked in terms of construction (ph), in terms of so many different jobs. I had a woman who was in charge of the building of Trump Tower many years ago, before it was even thought - before anybody would have even thought of it, and did a fantastic job. I have given women more opportunity than I would say virtually anybody in the construction industry. I have a daughter named Ivanka and a wife named Melania who constantly want me to talk about women's health issues because they know how I feel about it and they know how I feel about women. I respect women. I love women. I cherish women. You know Hillary Clinton said, he shouldn't cherish. Well, I said, I do cherish. I cherish women.

[14:29:57] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to get paid the same as a man, and I think you understand that. So if you become president, will a woman make the same as a man and do I get to choose what I do with my body?