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Democratic Debate: Hillary Clinton's Likeability; Rules For Tonight's Debate; Debate Drinking Game. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 13, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] JACKIE KUCINICH, SR. POLITICAL EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Someone like Martin O'Malley, some of the Democrats that might be attacking her. So I think we're -- we might actually hear Trump's name evoked a couple times. But, yes, I mean it surprises me if, you know, Republican candidates aren't watching the debate because a lot of them are assuming that at the end of the day they're going to be facing Hillary Clinton. So they're going to -- they're going to want to know what she says.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, and I'd want my word out there during the whole night. That's be fun, right? People follow along, seeing what they're about -- what they're talking --

KUCINICH: Right. Why not?

COSTELLO: Yes, why not.

OK, Jamal has arrived but he is in D.C.

And, Jamal, I apologize for saying you were gambling in some casino in Las Vegas, although --

JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I wish I was. That would be a --

COSTELLO: I know you wish you were there. I know.

So we're talking about income inequality and, of course, that will be a big topic on the debate stage.

SIMMONS: Right.

COSTELLO: Bernie Sanders' message about that seems to be resonating louder than Hillary Clinton's. Why is that?

SIMMONS: Well, because he has a message that's really very clear. You know, the Bernie Sanders' campaign has been saying the same thing over and over again every single day, they're going after these oligarchs. They want to break up the banks. It's very clears he's in this to return economic power to the middle and working class.

Hillary Clinton's got a lot of good policies, a lot of things that she can talk about that she was (ph) before, but you don't quite understand what the central theme of her campaign candidacy is. I worked on the 1992 Bill Clinton campaign, and every day on the wall of that campaign was -- it's famous, right, it's the economy stupid and don't forget about healthcare. We don't know what that is for the Clinton campaign. And until she can start to sell us that in a really compact say, this is going to be hard for Americans to understand the rationale for the candidacy.

COSTELLO: Wait, Jamal, I have an idea. She could just say, I'll build a wall between the United States and Mexico and that will keep the undocumented immigrants out and keep them from taking so jobs of American citizens.

SIMMONS: But, you know, you're right, Donald Trump has actually like really -- he's got this sort of xenophobic (ph) part of his campaign. But on the other hand, he's got this hat that he walks around wearing that says "make America great again." So what people know about Donald Trump is that he wants to make America great again, even if it doesn't mean all Americans get to participate in that greatness (INAUDIBLE).

COSTELLO: But at least he has a strong message, whether his ideas will work or not, Jackie.

KUCINICH: Well, right. I mean it's a message. It's sort of a slogan instead of a message. I -- the message seems to, you know, get garbled in all of the -- whatever he is upset about that day. But, I mean, Jamal's absolutely right, until the have -- until the Hillary Clinton campaign has a compact message where they can say, you know, in a minute why they're running for president and the economy, no matter what's going on, usually the economy is the top priority when people go -- at the end of the day when people go to the ballot box and they cast their vote, they're doing it because they want to make their lives better. They're doing it because they want the economy to be better. So there needs to be a strong message in terms of what they're going to do to improve the lives of, you know, people who might be struggling.

SIMMONS: You know, last week I spent --

COSTELLO: Well, that's a --

SIMMONS: I spent last week in Detroit where we were launching the app for our new company, (INAUDIBLE), and I met this women who didn't have the Internet. Two out of five people in this community we were in didn't even have home based Internet. Nobody is talking about getting the kids in these communities connected to the tools of the new economy so they can compete. Those are the kind of things, I think, voters want to hear about. Instead we're talking about e-mails and Donald Trump and all sorts of other random things. And I think the Democrats have got to get back to that tonight.

COSTELLO: All right, Jamal Simmons, Jackie Kucinich, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, what's more important? Liking a president or being proud of the job they do? Why do we have to like our presidents anyway?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:38:15] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It takes a long time to prepare because you've got to go through all the candidates, know where they stand on the various issues. It takes an enormous amount of research.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What does it take to prepare? A lot of home work.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: By the time you get to debates, it means that the campaign has been kind of up and running for a while, so there are a lot of issues and statements and the records to go through.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: There's a whole team at CNN working on this.

BASH: We have an unbelievable research team here at CNN. I'll give them a plug.

COOPER: I try to know as much as I can and be armed with as many facts and as much information as possible.

KING: So that you're ready with smart questions, you're ready to fact check on your feet if necessary. But then also, don't overdo it.

BLITZER: You want to go into a debate as the moderator, basically knowing where all of these candidates stand on the most important national security issues, the most important domestic issues.

Speaking of Social Security, you've said in the past it's a Ponzi scheme.

I, you know, like to take a look at some of the best moments in previous debates, learn from my colleagues, see how they went, see how they handled it. And I think that's just a useful experience.

COOPER: And then a lot of that stuff gets changed at the last second or even during the debate. You know, the ebb and flow of it. You can never really quite predict. And that's what makes it, yes, exciting.

BLITZER: Your goal is to help make the voter out there a little bit smarter on where these candidates stand.

KING: Your preparations should include almost memorization of big moments.

Senator, you have said there are good earmarks and bad earmarks.

So prepare, but don't become hostage to your preparations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: There is a sizable portion of doubt out there about Hillary Clinton's likability factor. When all of the voters are asked to weigh in, well, the view is not so rosy on that issue. A recent CBS/"New York Times" poll shows unfavorable opinions of Clinton among registered voters. It's at 53 percent. That's actually an increase from August. And the highest unfavorable rating for Clinton since the poll began -- began asking that question about Hillary Clinton in 1992. And the challenges is a familiar one for Clinton. Remember this exchange from her last bid for White House?

[09:40:23] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question to you is simply this, what can you say to the voters of New Hampshire, on this stage tonight, who see your resume and like it but are hesitating on the likability issue, where they seem to like Barack Obama more.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, that hurts my feelings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, senator. I'm sorry.

CLINTON: But I'll try to go on. He's very likable. I agree with that. I don't think I'm that bad.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're likable enough, Hillary. No doubt about it.

CLINTON: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ooh, ouch, ouch, ouch.

John Avlon is editor-in-chief of "The Daily Beast" and CNN political analyst.

Hi, John.

First, let's explore why --

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, Carol.

COSTELLO: Hi.

I'd like to explore why Hillary Clinton's unfavorable or unlikability ratings are so high. Why is that?

AVLON: Well, she's been the subject of basically sustained attacks for the last, you know, nine months. I mean she has been seen as the overwhelmingly likely Democratic nominee. The GOP and the R -- the Republican National Committees began focusing attacks on her a long while ago to soften up her support. And things like the e-mail server scandal sort of resuscitate a lot of the negative stereotypes around the Clintons, brings sort of back a collective PTSD about the self- inflicted scandals they get in and then they find a way to pull themselves out of the fire. But there's something exhausting about it, and that has hurt her. It doesn't change the stature she holds in the Democratic Party. And even though those polls have tightened enormously, but it has taken a significant hit on her likability numbers and that, as you just heard, that's been a recurring theme throughout her own political career.

COSTELLO: OK, I'm going to ask you this question because it is tough for an aggressive women to be liked and it -- that's just -- that's just true.

AVLON: Uh-huh.

COSTELLO: It's tough for an aggressive woman to be liked. So it seems -- remember last -- last time around when Hillary Clinton ran when she cried? People loved that. And I'm thinking to myself, seriously? You like her because she cried but you don't like her because she might be aggressive or tough?

AVLON: Yes, I -- look, I mean, first of all, is it fair to point out a dose of sexism in the way that strength is portrayed in candidates that are female or male respectively? Absolutely. That said, the likability factor is something that flows throughout presidential campaigns. For better or for worse I think, you know, in 2000 when people were asked, who would you rather get a beer with, George W. Bush won that automatically. Clinton's core characteristic is competence.

That said, that New Hampshire moment you referenced is important because she took the risk of intimacy, because she showed a degree of humanity that was relatable. And sometimes, you know, that perception of steely ambition really can get in the way. Al Gore had the problem as well. So it's not simply a gender thing. It's -- it's -- it's a factor of stereotypes about Hillary Clinton.

COSTELLO: So -- so if Al Gore -- if Al Gore would have cried, it would have made him more likable and human?

AVLON: I think if he just wept more, I think that could have -- that could have made all the difference (INAUDIBLE).

COSTELLO: I'm just -- I'm just curious. I just -- and, you know, ultimately, I wonder, why do we have to like presidential candidates anyway? You could argue, right, people really like President Obama, but a lot of people don't think he's a very good president. You could argue that George W. Bush was very likable but lots of people argue he was a terrible president.

AVLON: Well, I -- you know, I think that's the key point here. It is one factor. One of the criteria that people use when they go into the polling booth, for better or worse, is, you know, they -- do they want this person in their living room for the next four to eight years. And if you go back and let's start history at post Nixon because that's clearly the anomaly. Generally the American people have backed the candidate that seems more likable.

Now, competence is obviously not a substitute. And I think that's one of the things we learned from the beer test, so to speak. They're not going to want to sacrifice competence for simple likable but it's a factor, it's human nature, it's part of what it is to be in a democracy in our era. And so we need to put those things in proper proportion. But you can't just simply show, you know, contempt for the human factor of politics in a democracy. Can't do it.

COSTELLO: OK, I'll try not to. John Avlon, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

AVLON: Take care.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, there's no phone a friend here. The dos and don'ts for the debate stage. What the candidates absolutely cannot bring with them, next.

[09:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you at 49 minutes past. The Russian embassy attacked in Syria; that's according to the Russian state-run news agency Sputnik International. Two explosions reportedly went off during a pro-Russian rally in Damascus. It was not immediately clear if there were any injuries.

More Israeli/Palestinian violence in the Middle East. Israeli officials say two people were killed and ten wounded in a bus attack in Jerusalem. Another man also died in that separate attack.

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will be facing off for the first time tonight, and for Martin O'Malley, James Webb, and Lincoln Chafee, this may be there best and last chance to get on voters' radar screens.

[09:50:05] So what are the ground rules? Tom Foreman has those.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Five candidates are expected to be on the stage when the debate begins and they will be arrayed according to their strength in the polls right now, so Hillary Clinton with the biggest numbers will be in the middle. The others spread out on either side. Their strength in the polls will also determine their order in terms of opening and closing statements.

Candidates cannot bring anything like a phone or a tablet or notes or a prop onto stage of any sort. They will each have a pad of paper and a pen and they will some water if they need it.

And what are they going to face? It will be an all-CNN panel this time around. The moderator will be our own Anderson Cooper,. Dana Bash and Juan Carolos Lopez will also be on stage with him. Don Lemon will be watching Facebook and Instagram, fielding questions there and presenting those to the candidates.

They will each have one minute to answer a direct question of any sort. And if they're brought up in somebody else's answer or accused of something, they will have 30 second rebuttal. However, they will also get a warning from a light to tell them they're running out of time. And if Anderson feels like they should be able to go on a little further for clarity, or some other reason, he can let them do so. And you can bet these candidates out here on the fringes in particular will want every second they can get to try to make an impression, rise in the polls, and be closer to the middle next time around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Tom Foreman reporting.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, not in Vegas but want in on the debate action? Up next, the debate drinking game that will shake up your viewing party.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:55:58] COSTELLO: Las Vegas, it's the city of big bets and just because you're not there doesn't mean you can't get in on tonight's debate action. One of my next guests came up with a debate drinking game. As a responsible journalist, I have to offer this disclaimer. I am not encouraging you to get sloshed, but if you do, don't drive.

Now, feel free to casually sip a beer like Hillary Clinton did back in 2008. Or like Martin O'Malley seen here having a brew back in March. Mm. Not a beer drinker? Take a cue from Bernie Sanders, who sips on root beer.

We're not opposed to mixing politics with fun, so here are a few rules of the latest drinking game out there. Drink every time a Republican candidate is mentioned or when you hear the words Benghazi or e-mail. Two drinks for the name Donald Trump. And pour yourself a triple when Chafee, O'Malley or Webb mention their old jobs.

Joining me now is the man behind that game, the very creative Scott Sutton. He's the political digital editor for "The Sun-Times Network". I'm also joined by CNN senior media correspondent and CNN host of "RELIABLE SOURCES" Brian Stelter. Who brought the booze?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just a few options for you, Carol. Just in case. I heard you like Blue Moon. I couldn't find Blue Moon at this hour. I found an Allagash though, I've got white, I've got a red. Maybe as we get in the spirit here.

COSTELLO: Awesome. OK, so Scott, back to you. Did it take you look to come up with this game?

SCOTT SUTTON, POLITICAL DIGITAL EDITOR, SUN-TIMES NETWORK: You know, not really. I kind of just thought about things that we knew would probably happen during the debate. We kind of wanted to go a creative route with getting people engaged in the debate, so I just thought of things I thought Anderson Cooper or Dana Bash might ask about or topics that might come up during the course of the debate.

COSTELLO: Well, some of my faves, shotgun a beer if Sanders' hair flails. Kind of like this.

SUTTON: Yes, we were hoping -- anyone who has seen him talk knows he's a passionate guy. So his arms might be moving, his hair might be moving. It will be fun to watch.

STELTER: It does maybe it interactive, right? That's the beauty of a drinking game whether it's for a sporting event or a debate.

COSTELLO: Exactly, it could make it much, much more fun to watch as well. So, Brian, I know there are other drinking games out there.

STELTER: Yes, there are. We've seen a lot of news outlets come up with these for the GOP debates. I'm sure we'll see even more for the Democratic debate tonight. There's also bingo ideas. You know, a bingo card where you try to fill in all five squares on the board. A lot of ways to make it interactive. Television of course is more fun when you feel like you're watching with other people. Well, a drinking game is one way to do that. I've always found, though, when I'm watching the debate, I'm -- this is going to sound like a promotion, but it's not -- I'm always so interested that I forget to go to the fridge and grab another drink until after the debate.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter, seriously?

STELTER: You know, this time we can start early, I guess.

COSTELLO: OK, so while Brian is pouring the booze, Scott, will you actually be drinking tonight? Do people actually play these games if they're beyond the age of 22?

SUTTON: I won't be doing it tonight because I'll be in the news room covering the debate on social media, but I'm hoping that we can get some young people engaged in the debate process and the political process. And I think this is a great, interactive way for them to kind of reach out to politics, even for people who aren't exactly into it.

COSTELLO: I always wondered why people felt the urge to come up with drinking games during debates.

STELTER: At least at the end of the night, in the news room, you're going to have to have something, right? You're going to have a sip. Maybe a shot.

SUTTON: Well, I think my bosses are watching right now so maybe I can convince them to let me have one or two beers. Maybe.

STELTER: Well, I wish we could hand him a glass in Chicago, but --

COSTELLO: I know. Sorry, Scott.

STELTER: Cheers.

COSTELLO: We saw Bernie Sanders' hair flail so we have to drink. Thanks, Scott, for coming on. We appreciate it. And we toast you.

SUTTON: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

(MUSIC)

[10:00:04] COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The stage is set and the stakes are huge.