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Five Democrats Face Huge Stakes in Vegas; Democrats Candidates Woo Union Workers; Interview with Bill Richardson; Will Donald Trump's Name Come Up During Debate?; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 13, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:03] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

The stage is set and the stakes are huge. Five Democrats face off for their first debate of this presidential season. This is the legendary Las Vegas Strip where fortunes can turn in a moment and a split-second decision can last a lifetime.

And this is the Wynn Hotel Casino where CNN's debate gets under way in just 10 and a half hours. Hillary Clinton is center stage, Bernie Sanders shares the spotlight, and three underdogs will try to elbow their way in with a standout performance.

Senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta is in Vegas for the big showdown. Good morning, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You're right, there's a lot at stake in tonight's Democratic debate here in Las Vegas. And, you know, there are definitely some strategies that are being put into place. Make no -- make no mistake about this. Bernie Sanders walks into tonight's debate with a lot of Democrats inside the party wondering, is this somebody who could be elected president of the United States?

Yes, he has fired up that liberal base of the Democratic Party and so he is going into tonight's debate with a strategy. And that is essentially not attack, to get his message out. He wants to talk about Wall Street, he wants to talk about the economy, he wants to talk about the environment. But his advisers weren't listening. If Bernie Sanders attacked, you will feel the Bern, so to speak. He will attack if he's attacked.

Now Hillary Clinton, it's sort of a different strategy for her. She has not debated since 2008. And so for Hillary Clinton, really, it's about not making any mistakes at this point. A senior aide to Hillary Clinton says she wants to cut through the politics. You know, she has been really saddled these last several months with questions about Benghazi and the e-mail controversy, so she wants to break through all of that noise and finally start talking about these issues that she's been wanting to talk about with Democratic voters on a big stage and in front of a big audience. And so that's Hillary Clinton's objective tonight.

And Carol, as for the other candidates, Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, Jim Webb, you know, they are not just the other runs. They're not just the other people on the stage. With only five candidates, keep in mind, Martin O'Malley who is just struggling to show up above zero percent in the polls, he's going to be positioned right next to Hillary Clinton on stage.

And if you look back to the GOP debate that CNN just had out in California, you know, there were moments for Carly Fiorina. There were moments for Marco Rubio. And those moments translated into a big boost in the poll numbers for those two candidates. Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, Jim Webb, they're looking for the same thing to happen tonight.

Political fortunes can change here in Las Vegas. But for Hillary Clinton -- you know, the other thing that I thought was fascinating, Carol, Hillary Clinton, when she landed here in Las Vegas, she was not training her sights on her Democratic rivals. Especially Bernie Sanders. She went straight to Donald Trump's hotel, which is just right over here.

COSTELLO: Yes.

ACOSTA: Right across the street from the Wynn Hotel, and was basically trolling the GOP frontrunner. So she's playing sort of a general election strategy. Almost looking beyond this field of candidates that she'll be sharing the stage with tonight -- Carol.

COSTELLO: You're certainly right about that. Jim Acosta reporting live from Las Vegas. Thanks so much.

As Jim said, some political gamesmanship already under way in Vegas. Hillary Clinton appearing in red, making a surprise appearance at a union rally right in front of a hotel owned by Donald Trump. She shook hands, she took names and maligned not her Democratic rivals, but Mr. Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some people think Mr. Trump is entertaining, but I don't think it's entertaining when somebody insults immigrants, insults women. If you are going to run for president, then you should represent all the people of the United States. And that includes hard-working people and you should not stand in the way of the right to organize because that's what built the middle class of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The crowd largely members of the culinary union loved it. Maybe Bernie Sanders supporters caught wind of Clinton's TV moment because it wasn't long before an energy-efficient Tesla, covered in the Sanders name, pulled up alongside the rally and people waved from the car.

As for Mr. Trump, he said his Las Vegas hotel workers categorically reject unionization, even though the union for years has tried to unionize his hotel. The fact that Clinton showed up at this rally, this union rally, is a

sign of how important union support is for Democrats.

With me now Richard Trumka, he is the president of the AFL-CIO. Welcome, sir.

RICHARD TRUMKA, PRESIDENT, AFL-CIO: Carol, thanks for having me on.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being here. Care to endorse anyone?

TRUMKA: Well, we haven't yet. We're going through a very, very serious process. We've asked all our affiliates to get information on all of the candidates for their members, have a large discussion, and then figure out what our membership wants to do and who they want to endorse. We're right in the middle of that process. And tonight's debate, I think, will move that process forward significantly.

COSTELLO: So generally speaking, did Clinton's outreach to those union members strike a chord with you?

[10:05:04] TRUMKA: Of course it did. Any time you have a candidate or a leader that's out supporting workers who are struggling against a boss like Trump, who wants to make money but not pay his workers money, it resonates with them. It shows them you care and you're listening. That's an important thing. We wish more leaders would do that.

COSTELLO: I know that Mrs. Clinton changed her position on the Trans- Pacific trade deal. She -- a trade deal she once called the gold standard of trade deals.

Do you trust her now, now that she needs your support?

TRUMKA: You know, Carol, I think it's unfair to say that and characterize what she did. Look, the president said, we're going to do TPP and this is going to be the gold standard. She was on his team. And she said, we're going to go for the gold standard. Whenever the gold -- it came back and it wasn't the gold standard, she said, this isn't the gold standard. I'm not going to support it. That's responsible legislating. That's responsible leadership. We think every leader ought to do that.

On the other side, you have free traders that don't care about the rules. They're going to support TPP no matter how bad it is for the country, no matter how bad it is for the economy and no matter how bad it is for workers. What she did, I think, is responsible leadership and more should actually be doing that.

COSTELLO: So she's not a flip-flopper on that issue, she's a responsible leader?

TRUMKA: I think that's exactly right. She said, here's the goals. Go and get them and bring them back. When they brought them back and they didn't meet the goals, what should she do? Say, oh, I was just kidding about the goal? I'll take it anyway? No. She said, this doesn't meet the standard that you set. This still hurts workers. It hurts our economy and it hurts our country. And therefore, I'm not going to support it. To me, that's leadership.

COSTELLO: It sounds like you're leaning toward endorsing Hillary Clinton.

TRUMKA: I don't get to endorse anybody. Our members get to do that. We're going to listen, we're going to go through the process and we're going to give everybody a fair shake. We're going to try to give our members the facts, honest facts about what everybody stands for and then have them make the decision.

COSTELLO: I want to bring up Joe Biden, of course, he's not running for president but his ghostly presence will be in Las Vegas. And I know that you marched with Joe Biden last month at a Labor Day parade. Here's what the vice president told the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One percent of Americans owns 40 percent of all the wealth in America. They're not bad people. Here's the deal, folks. It's set up that way. It's set up that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: He got really fired up at that rally, talking about middle class America and wage inequality. People in the crowd were yelling for Joe Biden to run for president. Do you wish he were in the race?

TRUMKA: Look, that's a decision Joe Biden is going to make. He's not in the race right now. He's not a candidate. Tonight you have five serious candidates that are going to debate. When he -- if he becomes and when he becomes a candidate, he'll get to debate as well. As far as I'm concerned, Joe gets to watch this with the rest of us.

COSTELLO: Well, the rumor is that he's going to make a decision sometime after this debate. If Joe Biden decides to get in the race, would you endorse him? Is that what you're waiting for?

TRUMKA: Well, no, that's not what we're waiting for. We're going to through a process, Carol. We're trying to give our members all the facts on all the candidates and let them make the decision. We invited Democrats and Republican candidates to come and talk to us about what they stand for. Unfortunately from the Republicans, we get, I didn't say that, you said it, my hair is -- this isn't fun. More like a circus or a comedy routine than it is substance.

Look, workers care. This is an important election to them. They're listening to what's going on. And they want to hear candidates that are listening to them. So what we're going to do is say, who is most likely to rewrite the rules of the American economy for the working families, and that's the person that we will endorse and support. The endorsement is the easy part. The hard work will start after the endorsement.

COSTELLO: OK. Let's talk about the Republican side for just -- the Republican side for just a couple more minutes because Donald Trump says he's able to create jobs. He's a job creator. He may not be in favor of unionization, but creating jobs is important, too. Did that resonate with you at all?

TRUMKA: Well, everybody -- every candidate out there said, I can create jobs. I'm going to create jobs. Tell us how. Tell us how you're going to rewrite the rules of the American economy away from people like Mr. Trump so that the average working person gets a fair shake.

Look, Carol, our economy is grossly out of balance. The rules need to be rewritten for working families so that they get a fair shake, so that work actually is rewarded and not punished by keeping you in poverty for working every day.

[10:10:11] What we'll do is look at people. And if Trump comes out with the best rewrite of the American rules, then we would take serious look at him. But so far, we haven't seen any of the rewrite of rules. All we've seen is, trust me, I'm good, I'm the best, I can do it. If I don't win, I wasted my time. That's not the hallmark of a leader. And that's not what we're looking for.

We're looking for someone who is serious and committed to rewriting the American rules to give the average worker out there a fair shake.

COSTELLO: Richard Trumka, thanks for joining me.

TRUMKA: Thanks for having me on, Carol. I really appreciate it.

COSTELLO: Absolutely.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Syria, Russia and Benghazi all hot foreign policy topics but how much will we hear from the Democrats about foreign policy tonight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:30] COSTELLO: In Syria, a civil war now turning into a proxy war between the United States and Russia. Today mortar rounds hitting the Russian embassy in Damascus. This comes as the United States and Russia lend fire power to their respective sides in the conflict in the form of ammunition and airstrikes. The U.S. supplying 50 tons of ammo to rebels while Russia continues airstrikes it claims are against ISIS but is focused on rebel-controlled areas.

All of this sure to be brought up at the debate tonight, so joining me now to talk about that, Bill Richardson, former U.N. ambassador, former secretary of energy and former governor of New Mexico. He's endorsed Hillary Clinton for president. Let's get that out of the way, so everybody knows.

Good morning, sir. And welcome for -- and thank you so much for joining me this morning.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: It's likely that Secretary Clinton will have to tackle a Benghazi question or two. Is she at all responsible for Ambassador Stevens' death?

RICHARDSON: No. And I think the Republicans have discredited themselves where that staff member basically saying it was a partisan investigation, and then the numerous other investigations that have taken place and then Majority Leader McCarthy's statement basically saying that it was kind of a political witch hunt.

So I don't think she's vulnerable on Benghazi. I think some of the Democratic candidates if they attack her on Benghazi, it might hurt them because this is an area where it's intensely partisan. I think she acted responsibly. And I think Benghazi's going to move out of the headlines.

COSTELLO: What about the e-mail controversy? I mean, Anderson Cooper most likely will bring that up but her Democratic rivals most likely won't.

RICHARDSON: Well, that is a problem. And hopefully with this debate where she can talk about her accomplishments as secretary of state, that she restored American relations with Europe, Asia, et cetera, that she was responsible for the tough sanctions on Iran that led to a deal.

I don't think the e-mail controversy will be brought up by her opponents much but it is out there. And she hasn't handled it well. Hopefully now the focus will be on her policy positions on this debate. I think the Democrats made a mistake by not having debates sooner. Republicans have had two or three. You know, we waited until now. The focus should be on policy issues, policy differences between the candidates.

COSTELLO: Going back to the e-mail controversy for just a second, shouldn't Hillary Clinton just directly address it? Say, I'm sorry? Well, she's kind of done that, but it hasn't resonated. You know, say, I'm sorry, it was a stupid decision. Don't know -- well, I don't know if she should say that. But what should she say, in your mind?

RICHARDSON: Well, Carol, I think she did already make a statement that she was sorry, but I think it doesn't hurt to do it again at the debate tonight. I mean, the whole nation will be watching, Democratic voters will be watching. They want to see a little bit of contrition here, although I don't think it was a serious error on her part. It wasn't criminal or anything like that.

Just go out and say, look, I made a mistake. I want to put it aside. I'm sorry about it. Let's move on to discuss the issues because I think it's important that she has some new policy proposals on climate change, on the economy, on trade. You know, in a way she's changed her position on the Asia agreement which I regret. I wish she'd stuck with it. But I understand the politics, you know, the unions, the labor. They're very important, especially in a state like Nevada, which has a lot of minorities, it has labor, it has a lot of activist voters that are really Hillary Clinton's base.

COSTELLO: On the subject of Bernie Sanders, I'm sure he'll bring up the fact that he did not vote for the Iraq war but Hillary Clinton did. And he'll say that, you know, because so many voted for the war, that's what's gotten us into the mess we're currently in now. So how does she respond to that?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think that that's eight years ago. I remember when I was running, this was the big debate and President Obama was the one that benefitted from that Iraq vote of Hillary Clinton's mostly. I think you want to possibly, since you're appealing to a progressive left in the Democratic Party, mention Secretary Clinton's possibly hawkish positions on the Iraq war.

[10:20:10] You know, Bernie Sanders may raise the issue of Syria. The fact that Hillary Clinton has said she's for a no-fly zone, that that might inflame tensions. There's a little daylight between her and President Obama.

I think the progressive base wants to hear Secretary Clinton on that issue. And I think Bernie Sanders can make some inroads. I think Jim Webb, who nobody talks about, he's a serious senator. You know, he knows national security. He was Navy secretary. I think you might see him pop up on some of the national security issues.

COSTELLO: OK. The final question about Bernie Sanders. Is he the real deal? Because you know, his poll numbers are good in New England, but otherwise not so much.

RICHARDSON: Well, he is the real deal because he's tapped into a progressive base throughout the country in the Democratic Party. But I think he's going to have difficulty beyond Iowa and New Hampshire when you start getting into South Carolina, Nevada, states with a lot of minorities, with a lot of activists, with a lot of unions, super Tuesday, you know New Mexico.

I think that's where Hillary Clinton is strong. That's where she has that Democratic base in good shape right now. I think the best thing for Hillary Clinton is to accelerate her commitment to talking about issues. Get this e-mail issue out. Talk about what she stands for. I think you're going to see her relaxed, personable. She's a very good debater. I remember, she basically won most of the debates that we had. President Obama had the best lines, but I think you're going to see a turning of the page away from the e-mail --

COSTELLO: Bummer. Governor Bill Richardson, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump has plans to watch tonight's debate. So how can Democrats keep the spotlight on themselves and away from their GOP rivals?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:26:31] COSTELLO: Even though Donald Trump will not be at tonight's Democratic debate in Las Vegas, you can count on his challengers to throw punches. The real estate mogul already warning the theatrics of this debate won't be as good because Donald Trump himself is not on stage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think it's not going to be very rated because Trump isn't in the debate. I'm only kidding. I think it's not going to be highly rated. I think it's going to be, you're going to watch it for 10 or 15 minutes, people are going to get bored and turn it off.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you going to be watching it?

TRUMP: I'll be watching.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Trump will not only be watching. He'll be live tweeting. Early this morning he posted this, quote, "At the request of many, and even though I expect it to be a very boring two hours, I will be covering the Democrat debate live on Twitter."

(LAUGHTER)

So how often will Trump be mentioned anyway on that debate stage tonight? Let's talk about that with columnist for the "Boston Globe" and former Democratic speechwriter Michael Cohen. I'm also joined by Penny Lee, she's the former executive director for the Democratic Governors' Association. She's also a Hillary Clinton supporter.

Thanks to both of you for being here.

OK. So, Michael, I'll start with you. How many times will Donald Trump be mentioned on stage?

MICHAEL COHEN, COLUMNIST, BOSTON GLOBE: I mean, it's a good question. I'm sure it will come up with Hillary Clinton as a way to contrast herself to the Republican frontrunner but I don't imagine it will be a big part of the conversation tonight. I think everyone here is going to introduce themselves to the Democratic voters and I think probably there'll be less partisanship here than you've seen at the Republican debates.

COSTELLO: Yes, but everybody already knows Hillary Clinton. And let's face it, Penny, Hillary Clinton appeared in front of a Trump property in Las Vegas with union supporters for a rally and she talked about Donald Trump.

PENNY LEE, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS' ASSOCIATION : Yes, well, I do think one thing is correct is that it will probably be a little more "Downton Abbey" than WWF which we have seen in the last Republican debate.

You know, this is a chance for only about four people or six people on the debate versus the 16 that we saw where they were all, you know, trying to outduel each other and throw in barbs and trying to, you know, get under each other's skin with these one-liners. So I think it's going to be a little bit more of a substantive debate, it's going to be a debate on the issues, and I think it's really going to be an interesting time for the American people to see both Mrs. Clinton and many of those candidates for the first time in these long debates -- I mean, or in this long -- a chance for them to deliver a long answer versus a 30-second sound bite.

COSTELLO: I like the way she said long. Thanks, Penny. No, seriously, I think it will be interesting to hear actual policy being discussed, especially from those bottom-tier candidates who have to get their name out there. And they have to say something that resonates so it's sure to be spicy.

COHEN: You know, I imagine it would be somewhat but I don't think -- I don't think they will benefit them to go too aggressively after Hillary Clinton. I mean, she's obviously the frontrunner. She'd be like the nominee. It would be, I think, dangerous to go into a situation where you're attacking her or seeming really aggressive. I mean, people don't know who Martin O'Malley, they don't know who Jim Webb is, they don't know who Lincoln Chaffee is. It's a chance to introduce themselves. So I think you'll see them provocative when they talk about but I can't imagine it's going to be aggressiveness you've seen from the Republican side.

COSTELLO: Yes, but it is climate, Penny. In this climate don't you need to be -- don't you need to go on the attack? Isn't that really what resonates, sadly?

LEE: Well, you know, unfortunately, in these debates there's a lot of theater to them. And people are wanting to hear not only what they say but how they say it. So I think that there are going to be some things people are wanting to see how they relate to that barb that gets thrown. Is there -- are they going to be deflecting it with humor? Are they going to be deflecting it back with anger?

I mean, that is something that people are anxious to see on Bernie Sanders. Does that anger that he is known for kind of jump out? You know where is that 30-second moment that other candidates have to be able to fuel their campaign going forward.