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Democratic Presidential Debate. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 13, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:42] PENNY LEE, FORMER EXEC. DIR., DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS' ASSN: Well, you know, unfortunately, in these debates there's a lot of theater to them. And people are wanting to hear not only what they say but how they say it. So I think that there are going to be some things that people are wanting to see, how they relate to that barb that gets thrown. Are they going to be deflecting it with humor? Are they going to be deflecting it back with anger?

I mean that's something that people are anxious to see on Bernie Sanders. Does that anger that he is known for kind of jump out? You know, where is that 30-second moment that other candidates have to be able to fuel their campaign going forward? So, yes, it is both theatrics and substance.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And I don't think Hillary Clinton will have to do that, right? She just needs to not make a mistake.

MICHAEL COHEN, "THE BOSTON GLOBE": Not make a mistake. I mean if anything, I don't think she really wants to engage the other members of the debate. In reality, she's running for the nomination -- I mean running for the presidency not the nomination right now. I think she's much more focused on Republicans. She's much more focused on setting herself up for the national race than even she is to the Democratic race.

At this point, not make a mistake is probably the number one priority for her.

COSTELLO: As far as policy goes, Penny, there aren't really big difference between the candidates, except for Jim Webb, some people call him a dino.

LEE: Well, he was senator when I was working for Senator Reid. And yes, he was very much an independent voice of his own island. He oftentimes channels what they would consider that angry, white male voter. And so it will be interesting to see, can he expand beyond that and where is he going to be coming from as far as his points of differential.

So, he is a dark horse to be watching tonight.

COSTELLO: OK. So, who will have the Carly Fiorina moment? I hate even asking that question, but why not?

COHEN: I mean who's going to make something up about Planned Parenthood videos? I don't know. I don't know who that's going to be. I don't think that will be Hillary Clinton -- just for the record. But who knows?

LEE: I don't think so either.

COHEN: At this point, I mean I think again, none of it -- it's sort of a weird dynamic here because on the one hand they want to get attention for themselves. They also don't want to do anything that really makes them look I think overly aggressive, like they're ganging up on Hillary Clinton.

I mean chances are she's the nominee does anybody really want to be in a situation where they go after her too aggressively and undermine her? I think in a lot of respects, I shouldn't say this, I want to come back on CNN -- but it might become a boring debate tonight. Everyone jockeying for position, trying to set themselves up for maybe the next debate down the road.

COSTELLO: Well, I'll be watching.

COHEN: I will be watching, too. Don't worry.

COSTELLO: We'll be watching.

LEE: We all will be.

COSTELLO: Penny Lee, Michael Cohen -- thanks so much.

CNN's run up to the first Democratic debate continues with Jake Tapper, Wolf Blitzer and Erin Burnett -- live from Las Vegas. The debate starts at 8:30 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM -- hard to believe Bill and Chelsea Clinton are rarely seen on the campaign trail. So, when will Hillary Clinton use some of her biggest weapons?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:32:03] COSTELLO: Debate night is here. No matter who you're betting on tonight the Democratic pressure is on. Hundreds will be in attendance not to mention the millions watching worldwide.

Former President Bill Clinton arriving alongside his wife, Hillary, yesterday. Mr. Clinton noticeably keeping a low strategy lately. It's a strategy Hillary Clinton may have learned from her last go around -- the dos and don'ts of mixing family and politics. More now from Alexandra Field.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's her biggest supporter.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She'd be a very good president and I think she's proven out to be a pretty good candidate.

FIELD: But during this campaign, Bill Clinton is more often on the sidelines than by Hillary's side. B. CLINTON: First of all, it is true that I have done markedly

less to this point than I did eight years ago when she ran. Eight years ago I did a lot by now, of what I've only done two things.

FIELD: President Clinton walked with Secretary Clinton in a Fourth of July parade. He was with her when she launched her campaign but months before that the former president seemed to diminish his role.

DAVID GREGORY, FORMER NBC NEWS HOST: And you're just a bit player as to whether Secretary Clinton runs?

B. CLINTON: That's exactly what I am. I'm a foot soldier in an army. I will do what I'm instructed to do.

FIELD: Last week, Bill Clinton was at a Democratic dinner in West Virginia where he rallied the base. He didn't talk about Hillary's campaign but he kept in line with her message.

B. CLINTON: We don't have paid leave, universal preschool, affordable child care.

FIELD: Daughter Chelsea has also been in the spotlight. She's out promoting her book and also supporting her mom.

CHELSEA CLINTON, DAUGHTER OF HILLARY CLINTON: Every opportunity I have, I want to tell people why I so strongly support her not only as a voter, but in a way also as a daughter and now a mom.

FIELD: But she's skipping the kind of campaign stops that featured her four years ago.

C. CLINTON: Thank you very much.

FIELD: There was controversy in 2008 when Chelsea took on a public role and refused to take most questions. And there was more controversy when some of Bill's answers tested the campaign's control.

JONATHAN ALLEN, VOX, D.C. BUREAU CHIEF: I think they're being a lot more reserved this time with Bill and Chelsea Clinton. We're going to see more of them going forward but Bill Clinton was sometimes a liability on the campaign trail in 2008 and I think they want to avoid that this time.

What you don't want him to do is interact with reporters and have those unscripted moments that really hurt her last time.

FIELD: Like this response to a reporter who claimed Clinton accused Obama of playing the race card.

B. CLINTON: No, no, no, that's not what I said. You always follow me around and play these little games. And I'm not going to play your games today.

FIELD: And this unscripted exchange over Barack Obama's voting record on the Iraq war. B. CLINTON: And there's no difference in your voting record and

Hillary's ever since. Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairytale I've ever seen.

[10:39:56] FIELD: Hillary takes center stage in the first Democratic debate tomorrow night. It still isn't clear where Bill or Chelsea will be watching.

Alexandra Field, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Hillary Clinton has some big goals tonight but so does Bernie Sanders. What they have to do to win, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:44:55] COSTELLO: Even a small slip-up at a presidential debate can define a campaign and impact the race for the White House. CNN's Sara Murray has a look back at some of those moments and how they influenced the election.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to build a wall.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Immigration did not come up in 2016 because Mr. Trump brought it up.

TRUMP: More energy tonight. I like that.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As it relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure, he kept us safe.

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's an OK doctor.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's one of the highest stakes moments in presidential politics.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You guys nervous?

MURRAY: A few minutes, seconds even on the debate stage can define a candidacy, sending contenders soaring in the polls or struggling to find their footing. This moment in the first Republican presidential debate --

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Mr. Trump --

MURRAY: -- solidifying Trump's standing as a candidate who doesn't play by the rules and boosting him even higher in the polls.

In the second GOP debate, Carly Fiorina's cool as ice comeback to Trump's criticism of her appearance, elevating her as a formidable contender.

FIORINA: I think women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. Trump said.

TRUMP: I think she's got a beautiful face and I think she's a beautiful woman.

MURRAY: Her polished performance rocketing her to second place in post-debate polls, while the latest polls show her slipping slightly.

But a cringe-worthy misstep can deliver a crippling blow to an ailing campaign.

RICK PERRY (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: The third agency of government, I would do away with education, the -- I -- commerce and, let's see. I can't. The third one I can't. Sorry. Oops.

MURRAY: Two months later, Rick Perry dropped out of the 2012 presidential race. This year his second bid never caught fire.

CROWD: Hillary. Hillary.

MURRAY: Hillary Clinton had her own oops moment in 2008.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What can you tell me about the man who's going to be Mr. Putin's successor?

H. CLINTON: Well, I can tell you he's a hand-picked successor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who will it be, do you know his name?

H. CLINTON: Med -- Medvedev -- whatever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MURRAY: But her opponent proved not every awkward debate moment marks the end for a candidate. After this chilly exchange in 2008 --

H. CLINTON: I don't think I'm that bad.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're likeable enough -- Hillary.

H. CLINTON: Thank you.

MURRAY: Voters delivered a win for Hillary Clinton in the New Hampshire primaries, stalling Barack Obama's momentum after his stunning win in Iowa and setting off a long-slog nomination fight.

In the end, Obama turned it around, won the Democratic primaries and went on to win the White House. But very few candidates manage to make it that far.

Sara Murray, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: So, what about the candidates tonight, what do they have to do to have a good night? Let's bring in Andy Smith. He's the director of the University of New Hampshire's Survey Center and Ed Lee, the debate director at Emory University. Welcome to both of you.

ANDY SMITH, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SURVEY CENTER: Thank you.

ED LEE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. So Andy -- I'll start with you. What are the three things Mrs. Clinton must do tonight?

SMITH: Well, I think the first thing she needs to do is remember that she's no longer really the front-runner. I disagree with one of your earlier guests. The nomination is not a lock for her yet. In early states like New Hampshire, she slipped up very significantly. And she has to give something to those Democratic activists that are slipping away towards the Sanders camp and provide some real energy.

Secondly, I think what she needs to do is display a sense of humor. Humor does a great deal to legitimize yourself. It makes voters really like you more and it also allows you to get in the cutting words in a debate in a way that doesn't make you look bad.

And then finally, I think she really has to give understandable, clear and believable responses to some of the more difficult questions she's been facing on the campaign, especially about the e-mail server in a non-lawyerly way. These I think are the kind of things that can bring back those activists who slid away a bit.

But I should point out that this is the most important event in the Democratic campaign until the next most important event, and a lot of this stuff will go away.

COSTELLO: Ed, what about you. What do you think Clinton has to do?

LEE: I actually in some ways disagree. I think she needs to have -- a boring night for her is a good night. Really, she needs to show that she is presidential, that she needs to lean on her experience when she's attacked and be personable.

The reality is, is that three of the candidates who are on the stage, no one really knows who they are. And Bernie Sanders at the end of the day is a socialist. It will be very difficult for him to wipe the stain of socialism off himself at some point in time. For her to go and attack in my mind is to engage in debate malpractice.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Ok. So let's talk about Bernie Sanders. Andy, what must he do?

[10:49:L51] SMITH: Well, I think Ed's right. Sanders right now is a classic protest candidate. He needs to convert himself from just being a protest candidate to somebody who could be seen as presidential. By that, he not only has to sound presidential and act presidential on the stage, he has to look presidential. And I think that's going to be his biggest challenge.

I think the next thing he really needs to do is demonstrate a wide knowledge on a range of issues and be able to explain those things clearly when he's on the stage.

But finally he has to display that kind of righteous anger that he's had throughout this campaign that has really motivated progressive Democrats. But he has to do it in a way that's toned down in such a way that it doesn't alienate some more of the mainstream Democrats that are out there. He has to walk a fine line to display the fire without making it seem like he's really angry.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Ed, how must Bernie Sanders remove the stain of socialism from his persona?

LEE: I think that Andy is correct about this one. He needs to vary his platform and talk about a range of issues that goes beyond the economic populism that he has been very good at rallying the base and rallying a tremendous amount of support for.

I also think there's a place in which Hillary Clinton seems a little vulnerable on and that's the question of race and attracting minority vote. And if he can draw some day light ate between her and Barack Obama in this debate, that that could be very good for him long term.

COSTELLO: OK. So Andy, I'm wondering about this. Should Hillary Clinton portray herself as the front-runner or the challenger because you know, she has problems being the anointed one.

SMITH: Well, I think that she runs a better candidate when she is the challenger. I think everybody does. They run better when they are -- think of themselves as behind. So, I think in this case there's reason to believe that she is not the front-runner in the early states where this matters.

I think David questioned this very clearly back in 2007-2008. It's a sequential process. How you do in the early states is far more important than how you look in national polls. Clinton was leading in national polls all the way until she wasn't.

If you're the front runner, you have to have something else other than being the front-runner to convince voters that you are the person to support because once you start to lose that front-runner status, it's a long fall.

COSTELLO: It certainly is. So, Ed, do you agree, should Hillary Clinton portray herself as sort of the underdog?

LEE: Well, this is a long process for her, that her runway is extensive. She has a massive lead in the polls and that urgency ultimately determines the level of aggression that you need to engage in. If you're her, she doesn't need to be as aggressive because

she'll live to the next debate. If you're O'Malley, Webb, Chafee, you have no idea if you're going to be in the next debate and they need to be far more aggressive in trying to create an error on her part.

I think that she just needs to be personable, be presidential and wait for the next debate to occur.

COSTELLO: OK. So, one last question for both of you: which of the three -- which of the three lesser candidates, for lack of a better term that I can think of right at the moment, which one has the -- I don't know. Which one is most likely to jump to the forefront, Andy?

SMITH: I think Martin O'Malley really is the one who's most likely to. He's been campaigning a lot, so he's trying to build a lot of general support, certainly in New Hampshire and Iowa. But all of these other candidates have nothing to lose. If they don't make a splash in this debate, I think Ed's right, they are probably going home. They have to do something to really raise their profile.

COSTELLO: Ed, which one do you think is most likely to jump to the forefront?

LEE: I agree that I think that it's O'Malley, but I do think that Webb has an opportunity if he can switch the conversation to foreign policy and lean on his military experience, that he has the possibility to have that Carly Fiorina moment. Although he doesn't have the rhetorical prowess of her at all, he does have the ability to speak to his military and security background in a way that could turn the tide a little bit in the way in which the polling data is heading.

COSTELLO: We'll see later tonight. Ed Lee, Andy Smith -- thanks to both of you.

LEE: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

SMITH: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:58:27] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you at 58 minutes past.

A massive apartment fire in Kansas City, Missouri, has killed two firefighters. They've just rescued two people when a wall collapsed on top of them. Two other firefighters caught in the collapse were taken to a hospital for treatment.

Pretrial hearings have begun for those six Baltimore police officers facing a range of charges in the death of Freddie Gray. In the next 48 hours, a judge is expected to decide whether or not statements made by five of those officers will be admissible when the trials begin next month. The prosecution says the statements are key evidence in their cases. The defense argues they were made under duress violating the officers' rights.

A large wildfire is forcing more than 500 families out of their home in Casper, Wyoming. Fire officials estimate the blaze is now 9,000 acres in size. 15 homes have been destroyed. Numerous fire departments from around the state are joining the fight. Right now, 120 people are on the ground, battling flames, including 50 fire engines.

And bad news for Twitter employees: the company announcing it's cutting 8 percent of its workforce. Some 336 people will lose their jobs. The CEO says the decision was not an easy one. The cuts will mostly take place in product and engineering department. The company says it's looking to refocus priorities and become much more efficient.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Hello everyone, I'm John Berman.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. We are live from Las Vegas, the site of tonight's Democratic presidential debate. John Berman, can you smell it.

BERMAN: Viva -- Democratic presidential debate.

BOLDUAN: Not just --