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Democratic Debate; Sanders and the Debate; Clinton Slams Trump. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 13, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:18] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we're up live in Las Vegas. Great to be here on this exciting, exciting Tuesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin, live at the Wynn Hotel. We are hours away from what is shaping up to be one of the most important showdowns in the race for the White House. The top two contenders here facing off for the very first time. You have former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. Those are the top two we're watching for. But the question, one of many, will they attack tonight? So far they have been playing pretty nice, but the experts will tell you, with everything on the line tonight, that could change.

And by all accounts, this is shaping up to be Hillary Clinton's race to lose. The latest Fox News poll has Hillary Clinton still leading the pack amongst likely Democratic votes with 45 percent support to take the nomination. You see the numbers with me here. Sanders, he is fading slightly. His support down 5 points since September to 25 percent. And then you have the other three, former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley, you have Jim Webb, former U.S. senator from Virginia, and former Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee, also served as a senator as well. For these three men, this is truly make or break.

Let me go to my friend and colleague, Brianna Keilar. She has been here, as we all have for the last couple of days, getting ready for the big event tonight. She's just outside of that big debate hall.

Do we know yet, Brianna, when the candidates will start doing the walk-throughs, getting the feel for the - for the space, the podiums?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we expect that that's going to take place here in a couple hours, Brooke. And that's really what - right now I'll tell you what's kind of interesting is we know Sheryl Crowe is doing the national anthem tonight. She also has a bit of a walkthrough and a rehearsal that she has to do. And then we're going to be waiting for the candidates to arrive as they get to see this debate hall. Thirteen hundred chairs. They'll be able to see their podiums and certainly where they are in respect to our folks at CNN who are going to be asking the questions, who are going to be moderating this debate.

I was just speaking to Dana Bash. She is going to be one of those moderators. And I know that they are, at this point, even still finalizing some of the questions and the direction that they're going - that they're going with, with some of the candidates here. So you'll see these candidates coming through, not only doing their walkthroughs, but then they're going to take sort of a moment, I guess, to breathe, you could say, ahead of the debate. The final moments. And then they will be arriving in the debate hall again.

BALDWIN: Breathing is a good thing I suppose.

KEILAR: Yes, that's right. And I will also tell you that there's a lot of last-minute preparation going on right now. I've heard from a Clinton campaign aide that this afternoon she's going to be spending some of that - some of that time kind of, I guess you could call it, last-minute cramming.

BALDWIN: We'll talk to Patti Solis Doyle about how much Hillary Clinton likes to cram or not coming up. But let me follow up with this. You know, as you mentioned, those 1,300 seats inside that debate hall, do we know how many family members will be there from the different candidates?

KEILAR: I think we're expecting family members from most of the candidates, but there's going to be, it appears, a glaring omission, and that would be Bill Clinton. He's sort of different, I think, than some of the other spouses. You know, Jane Sanders will be coming to support her husband, Bernie Sanders. But I think there's a concern when it comes to the Clinton campaign that this is really her night. But more than that, Brooke, and this is sort of an interesting point that I've heard some people bring up. You know, Bill - Bill Clinton, when his wife is attacked, he's the one who really takes it personally, not her. This has always been the case. So you can imagine that cutaway shot if there is some moment where she's going to be sort of criticized or he might feel that one of her positions isn't framed the way he would like to see it framed, you know, that could be a great little visual of his face. Well, I guess we may not be getting that.

BALDWIN: It's important - listen, it's important what these candidates say, but also the optics as well.

Brianna Keilar, thank you so much, here in Vegas with me ahead of the big night tonight.

Let me bring in our big panel. I have Van Jones with me, CNN political commentator, also Patti Solis Doyle, CNN political commentator and the presidential campaign manager of Hillary Clinton's 2008 run, as well as Dan Pfeiffer, CNN political commentator and former senior adviser to President Obama.

So wonderful to all be here on this beautiful Vegas Tuesday, late morning, early afternoon. Let me begin with the point that Brianna Keilar made though, that she's hearing that in these final hours, Hillary Clinton, who definitely, you know, has been around the block when it comes to debates, you know, with 2008 -

PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

BALDWIN: The notion that Hillary Clinton might be cramming.

DOYLE: Yes.

BALDWIN: True?

DOYLE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Yes.

DOYLE: That's who she is. She's a student and she's a preparer.

BALDWIN: Day of?

DOYLE: On everything. But, look, she's been preparing probably for weeks, if not months, in terms of pouring over briefing books and policy stances, not just hers, but her opponents. But on the day of, first of all, great night's sleep last night I'm sure she got. And then today she's going to do some cramming. She's going to do some Q&A with her staff. But the hours before, three, four, five hours before, she might watch a movie. She might have a good meal with her family. She's going to chill out. She's got to relax.

[14:05:24] BALDWIN: Isn't that the point - before we get to our bold predictions, we talked about this before with President Obama the last go around, weren't we talking about him shooting hoops?

DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

BALDWIN: I mean isn't it key the last couple of hours not to be cramming on those - you really should have it. It should be in your bones.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The big danger for Hillary Clinton, over prepared in her head, underprepared in her heart.

BALDWIN: Huh.

JONES: So she's got to be able to let it all go, enjoy herself, enjoy her family. Hopefully she's got a couple of, you know, hugs from the husband. And then just be, because it's going to be the heart that connects. We know she's going to dominate on policy but we want to see that human side.

BALDWIN: What about bold prediction number one from you, Mr. Pfeiffer?

PFEIFFER: I think that the biggest, most important exchange tonight could be around TPP, the trade deal.

DOYLE: Yes.

PFEIFFER: Which is surprising because everyone agrees on stage and most people think TPP is a Naughty by Nature song, so I don't -

BALDWIN: TPP, which she recently changed her stance.

PFEIFFER: But - right. And I think (INAUDIBLE) goes to an absolute question, goes to her great vulnerability which is on attacks on her - on her - on being a typical politician and she's going to have to make a very strong case for why that trade agreement she called the gold standard a few months ago -

BALDWIN: Right.

PFEIFFER: A few years ago is now something she opposes. It - that will be an important moment that I think she has to either put that to bed or she's going to deal with that decision for months to come.

BALDWIN: Bold prediction from you.

DOYLE: I agree with Dan, but I think the person that it's going to come from, the most decisive moment on that issue is Martin O'Malley. I think he's the one with the most to lose here and, ironically, he's the - he's made more noise on calling for more debates, right? That's the big news that he's done.

BALDWIN: That's right. That's right.

DOYLE: So he's got to prove that debates are good for him. It's do or die for him. so I think that's going to come from Martin O'Malley. He's going to go after Hillary hard and she's got to be ready for it.

BALDWIN: He'll be standing right next to her.

DOYLE: Yes, I know.

BALDWIN: Even though he's polling 1 percent, he will be right next to her.

JONES: Yes.

BALDWIN: Attacking right to his - to his right.

JONES: Yes.

DOYLE: He's going to have the moment tonight.

JONES: Yes. Listen, that - and that elevates anybody. If you're standing next to Hillary Clinton, you must be somebody.

BALDWIN: Is that a good thing?

JONES: I think - I think it's a good thing for him because, listen, he is somebody --, look, you've got a governor, a mayor. You can't do as well as he's done in life and have zero political skills. But he's got zero in the polls. So I think - my big predication is, we are here tomorrow this time talking about Martin O'Malley.

DOYLE: I agree.

JONES: He is going to find a moment. He is going to do something. And if I were him, I would say, look, how can you be the front runner when all you do is chase me around? I was first on marriage. I was first on this. I was first on that. You're the Johnny come lately here. And it - however she responds, if she ignores him or she doesn't, we're going to be looking at that clip and he is going to go up in the polls because of that. BALDWIN: How will she respond to that?

DOYLE: Well, look, I think she's going to have to explain.

BALDWIN: Because he has a point.

DOYLE: I agree. I think she's going to have to explain it. In fairness it's been two and a half years since she's been negotiating on this deal. The deal has changed. But she's going to have to explain it where Democrats, a, will believe her, and it resonates with the rest of - with all voters.

BALDWIN: So - ok, maybe Martin O'Malley has the Carly Fiorina moment, as it were. What else? What about - I feel horrible. Everyone's saying, what about the other guys? What about - what about Chafee? What about Webb? I mean, Webb, talk about, you know, foreign policy chops, look at his background.

PFEIFFER: Right. I think - I mean there is a - if we had an undercard debate -

BALDWIN: Yes.

PFEIFFER: It would be Webb and Chafee on it because even though O'Malley has not performed to a level you would expect in the polls, she's a very legitimate presidential contender who has a shot. It's a long shot, but it's a shot.

JONES: And he has a real campaign.

PFEIFFER: Yes.

DOYLE: Right.

JONES: He's actually campaigning, so -

PFEIFFER: Right. Exactly right. He has an organization via staff he's doing it (ph). I think the other two, and they're kind of quirky guys. They have a chance to have sort of a social media moment of the debate where -

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

PFEIFFER: Well, they could be something funny, something - you know, like a big part of Lincoln Chafee's campaign is switching the United States to the metric system. Like - it's the sort of quirky things that work on the Internet or could be, you know, used in - on Twitter or whatever or I think that that could come for them and that - anything that tells people that Lincoln Chafee and Jim Webb are, a, running for president and who they are is good for them.

BALDWIN: I man can you spell Chafee? Can everyone spell Chafee? I mean that - it's interesting just walking around the Las Vegas Strip, because I talk to all you smart people, you know, during the day, but I wanted to get a sense of what everyone else is feeling and I've got to tell you, I was a little disappointed by folks not really being able to even know who all five of these candidates would be.

PFEIFFER: Right.

DOYLE: Right.

JONES: Well, listen, you don't have any oxygen. You're dealing with the world of a Donald Trump, of a Hillary Clinton, of a Bill Clinton. These are massive - and then of Bernie -

DOYLE: Bernie Sanders, yes.

JONES: You know, and he's - he's found a way to catch fire. But a Martin O'Malley has - he hasn't gotten one atom of oxygen in his camping yet. But I'm going to tell you, it will happen for him.

One thing that's - one other thing I want to say is, there will be an incendiary exchange of fire between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, I guarantee it. I don't care what you say, they want to be nice, he wants to be nice. This is for all the marbles. And somebody's going to say something to somebody that gets somebody's dander up. It will be an exchange of fire. And I tell you what, I'm going to bet Sanders wins it. Sanders wins it.

[14:10:13] BALDWIN: We'll talk tomorrow and see if you're right on the hot x-factor for the debate tonight. Van and Patti and Dan, thank you all so much.

Is America ready for a self-described socialist? That is one very huge, legitimate question that Bernie Sanders will essentially have to answer Tuesday night on the stage here in Las Vegas. Also ahead, the front runner, Hillary Clinton, trolling Donald Trump on his own doorstep here in Vegas. We'll speak live with a member of the union whose rally she crashed.

And, Don Lemon. Yes, he's known for some provocative TV. Tonight, he is one of the debate moderators. What will he be up to? We'll talk to Don Lemon here to see if he has any surprises up his sleeve. Knowing him, he does.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN's special live coverage ahead of the big debate tonight. Six hours away and counting. We'll be right back.

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[14:15:14] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin here live in Las Vegas. We are six hours away from the big night tonight. And let me tell you, there is one huge difference between these top two Democratic contenders. One is not a self-described socialist. The other one is. I know you know who I'm talking about, Bernie Sanders here. Listen, he's been drawing massive crowds, tens of thousands of people packing arenas, polling at a solid number two to Hillary Clinton, but can he go the distance? Here with me now I have CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston and Brad Woodhouse, he is president of Americans for Change and a former communications director at the Democratic National Committee. So wonderful to have both of you.

BRAD WOODHOUSE, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS UNITED FOR CHANGE: Hey, thank you so much.

Hello. Hello.

WOODHOUSE: In these fabulous surroundings.

BALDWIN: In the - I brought you the lagoon, Brad, there you go.

WOODHOUSE: That's right. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let's begin with some of the numbers because I think this whole notion of, you know, Bernie Sanders being this self-proclaimed socialist and how will that play and how does he describe it, just some numbers from how Americans are feeling from - this is a Gallup poll from June. The question was, would you vote for a socialist? Twenty-five percent would not support it in the Evangelical Christian, 38 percent wouldn't support a Muslim. But the highest, 50 percent said, heck, no, to voting for a socialist. How does he break through that?

WOODHOUSE: Well, it's a good question. I mean, look, I think Bernie Sanders has gotten to the point in this race by being who he is. So I don't think he can skew that label. I mean I think the challenge for him is to go on the debate stage and go out to the American people and see how he can broad than base. But, look, he - he - he is a - he described himself -

BALDWIN: When he starts talking about the government of Scandinavia -

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Right.

BALDWIN: You lose people.

WOODHOUSE: He - yes, he describes himself as a Democratic socialist. He's been an independent. He's never been a Democrat before running - before running for president as a Democrat. So, look, I think it's a challenge for him. But if - he started changing now, I think it would undercut the support that he's gained to this point.

RESTON: But that is - that is his biggest hurdle tonight is to show that he actually can win a general election. I mean when you talk about those numbers, there's a lot of people out there right now who maybe are feeling the Bern or, you know, watching his campaign, but don't actually know about that part of his background. And he's going to have to get out there and demonstrate tonight like actually I can take it to the Republicans better than Hillary Clinton can and I don't know, we'll see how he does that.

BALDWIN: "Washington Post," quote, "Americans might be increasingly aware of the economic inequality in the country, increasingly suspicious of so-called vulture capitalism - all of which has helped fuel Sanders' rise. But we are not electing someone who is an avowed socialist to the nation's top political job. Just ain't happening."

How do you argue with that?

RESTON: I - you know, we'll see how he - he also has a huge challenge to broaden his coalition, not just from that perspective, but also just looking at the demographics. Hillary Clinton is killing it with, you know, Latinos, African-American voters. A lot of the, you know, the bedrock voters for the Democratic Party, and he hasn't shown yet that he can even draw them in. So before you get past the socialist thing, you've got to show you can bring in the Obama coalition.

BALDWIN: Why - on that - on that notion with African-American voters, we know that he marched in the civil rights movement. We know that he has responded to folks within the Black Lives Matter movement. Why do you think he isn't resonating more?

RESTON: I just don't think that he has found a way to really connect with that audience. He's been trying to talk to, for example, Black Lives Matter, but so is Hillary Clinton and she's got that very long history with those sectors of the party, you know, organizing down in Texas earlier on in her career. And so I don't think that he's made a dent. Also here in Nevada, for example, I was out with Republicans last week and kept hearing how strong Hillary's ground game is with Latinos already. Bernie just got here a week ago. So we're going to have to see whether he can actually pull something off.

WOODHOUSE: I think Maeve makes a great point. I think this is as much about Hillary as it is about Senator Sanders. She has had a career and her husband has had had a career that African-American voters, you know, really appreciate -

BALDWIN: For years.

WOODHOUSE: For years and they support them. And I think that that has made it hard - hard for him. And there are other - there are other barriers. I mean his world view is strictly about economic inequality and that doesn't necessarily translate into issues of race easily because resolving economic inequality doesn't necessarily resolve the racial divide.

BALDWIN: Issues of race, racial divide -

RESTON: Right.

BALDWIN: What we've been talking about nationally as part of police brutality. I'm sure all of that will come up tonight.

WOODHOUSE: Right.

BALDWIN: We'll have to watch to see how he responds to that.

Brad and Maeve, thank you.

RESTON: Thank you so much.

WOODHOUSE: Great. Thank you.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it. Coming up next here on CNN, what is it like to actually be on stage and debate Senator Sanders? We'll talk to a Republican who did just that a couple of years ago. What to look out for. The rat-a-tat-tat he describes, that is Bernie Sander's debate style.

Also ahead, Hillary Clinton meets with protesters right - right around where we are here, right outside the Donald Trump hotel here in Vegas. Let's talk to a member of the union whose rally she attended. She stopped by. Their thoughts on Hillary showing up and what this means perhaps for Donald Trump. Stay with me. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

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[14:24:20] BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton here in Las Vegas, she selected one very specific Las Vegas location to slam Donald Trump on living wages and immigration, the Republican frontrunner's own hotel, just across the street from us actually here, just off the Las Vegas Strip. She joined union workers outside of Trump International Hotel for a union organizing rally just yesterday afternoon. She taunted the real estate mogul, telling the crowd they have a right to say no to Donald Trump.

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HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And some people think Mr. Trump is entertaining, but I don't think it's entertaining when somebody insults immigrants, insults women. And if you are going to run for president, then you should represent all the people of the United States, and that includes hard working people and you should not stand in the way of the right to organize because that's what built the middle class of America.

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[14:25:20] BALDWIN: Joining me now, Geoconda Arguello Kline, an officer in the culinary workers union. She's also the executive vice president of the international union Unite here. This is part of a powerful, powerful union I know in this state. So thank you so much for swinging by.

You were there yesterday just across the street from us here.

GEOCONDA ARGUELLO KLINE, SECRETARY-TREASURER, WORKERS UNION, LOCAL 226: Yes.

BALDWIN: We see this gold shining hotel, the Trump International Hotel there. You said you only got a couple of minutes heads up that Hillary Clinton would be swinging by. What did you make of the fact that she showed up?

KLINE: That was really nice. You know, we invite all the presidential candidates. We invite (INAUDIBLE) elected leaders and the members. You know, we have a great rally. That was really nice. She show up.

BALDWIN: What is it about the employees there? What is it that their - they were demonstrating for? What was the purpose of that?

KLINE: You know the Trump workers, they did (ph) organize and they want to have a union. The company they been fighting back. They've been putting an anti-union campaign inside, you know, having (INAUDIBLE) and discipline because the workers they want to exercise their right to have to organize. And we sent a message to Mr. Trump yesterday this (ph) work (ph) they will continue fighting, you know, because they're fighting for have (ph) (INAUDIBLE) respect and dignity. Now, Mr. Trump is all over the country saying, you know, that he wants to make America great again. Well, he had a great opportunity to make America great again here at the Trump workers (ph) where he have a lot of workers that work for him.

BALDWIN: I was going back over previous interviews. He's obviously addressed this before. Mr. Trump has said, quote, he has a great relationship with the unions, that he has had collective bargaining in some states, particularly in New York. Your reaction to that?

KLINE: Well, you know, I've got to tell you one thing is - he (INAUDIBLE) really will listen his worker. He will realize that. What - he's completely wrong about it because people want to have still secure in their jobs and they want to have a union. What's happening right now is very unbalanced fight because he has millions and millions and millions and millions dollars and they fight - he's fighting with guest room attendants (ph), kitchen workers, food service, that's who he's fighting.

BALDWIN: What about the other Democratic candidates. You said you had invited all of them. To my knowledge, none of the others did show up. So, a, can you just comment on that? And, b, final question, part of this powerful union, have you all endorsed anyone? When do you plan to?

KLINE: In reality, you know, we invite everybody. We have a union. We represent 167 countries. And we have 145,000 people right now that rely on their health insurance and they will be (INAUDIBLE) right now because, you know, they want the (INAUDIBLE) taxes, 40 percent taxes, to women who work cleaning rooms, the kitchen workers, the (INAUDIBLE), the cooks, and our point is every candidate right now, they have to show if they want to have our support.

BALDWIN: So no one has shown that yet?

KLINE: Yes, they -

BALDWIN: No one has shown that yet. So you haven't endorsed anyone yet.

KLINE: They say words, but, you know, we believe in actions. So they - they could do a lot of things.

BALDWIN: Geo Kline, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

KLINE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: From your perspective from the unions here in Las Vegas. Next here on CNN, Donald Trump. Of course, this is the Democratic presidential debate here, thus he will not be on the stage. That doesn't mean he won't have some sort of presence here in Las Vegas. Hear what he will be doing during the debate this evening.

Also, what it's like to debate Senator Bernie Sanders. We'll talk to someone who went head to head with him in the 2012 Senate race and he says, watch out, Sanders attacks.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN's special live coverage.

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