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Opinion Split on Debate Winner; Police Kill Would-Be Stabber in Jerusalem; Clinton Stumbles Slightly on Defense; Candidates Tackle Pocketbook Issues at Debate. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 14, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:49] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: But that narrative did not play out online where it was Bernie Sanders, not Clinton, who dominated the dialogue. Searches for Sanders spiked on Google throughout the debate, even outperforming Donald Trump; and Sanders topped Twitter, too, gaining 35,000 new followers.

And here's what voters told CNN's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How many of you think that Bernie Sanders won this debate tonight? Almost all of you. How about -- how many of you think Hillary Clinton won this debate tonight? Are we getting closer to being decided? No. OK. Maybe a couple of you are.

You have a vision of your dream ticket, don't you? Tell me what that is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. My dream team now will be Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders together. They just really did a really great job. Hillary is very presidential, and Bernie is definitely a man of the people. I think he represents more regular people than what these politicians who are on stage are just out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Interesting, right? With me now to talk about this: Hilary Rosen, CNN political commentator; and Ben LaBolt, press secretary for the 2012 Obama presidential campaign. Welcome to both of you.

BEN LABOLT, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR 2012 OBAMA CAMPAIGN: Thanks for having us.

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here.

So Ben, could that possibly work -- a Clinton/Sanders ticket?

LABOLT: I don't anticipate seeing that, but look. You can't deny the intensity of the support among some Democratic activists for Senator Sanders' message about the middle class being hollowed out over decades. But at the end of the day, I don't think he accomplished a broader appeal last night. I mean he opened with a lecture on why we should import Democratic socialism into the United States.

Secretary Clinton was in command of the issues. She herself an advocate for making the economy work better for the middle class. We're always nervous during the 2008 campaign about going up against then-Senator Clinton in a debate. And I think last night she proved why. She's still got it.

COSTELLO: But Hilary, this Democratic socialist thing seems to be resonating online, at least. Bernie Sanders surged, and he raised like $1.3 million during the debate.

ROSEN: You know, Hillary Clinton had the best night of her campaign last night. But she woke up this morning being the first one to recognize that this is still several months to go, she does not, you know, cannot take this for granted.

Bernie Sanders has energized Democratic activists. We saw last night that while the media and a significant number of voters and pundits all declared her the sure winner. Bernie Sanders actually won on social media, according to reports.

So you know, Bernie Sanders has a base that Hillary Clinton needs to continue to win over. It's a big part of the so-called Obama coalition. Ben's pretty familiar with that. That won the general election.

And you know, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are still going to be fighting over that population.

COSTELLO: Well, let's talk about that Obama coalition, Ben. Because online, you know, people tend to be younger, right? And something about Bernie Sanders is really resonating. Plus the Democratic Party has grown much more liberal over the years.

LABOLT: Well, I think sometimes candidates who say the most provocative things in debates tend to have the biggest impact on social media. You know, one challenge for Sanders in building out the Obama coalition is more diverse support. You know, right now we're seeing that Latinos and African-Americans tend to be supporting the Clinton campaign. Sanders has strong numbers in the first couple of states on the map, Iowa and New Hampshire, but as those states get more diverse over time, he's really going to need to show that he can reach broader constituencies.

ROSEN: That's right. Sanders has one leg at the stool. It's a three-legged stool, the Obama coalition -- right. There's young people, there's minorities, and there's women. You know, Hillary still has two-thirds of that stool.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Hilary Rosen, Ben LaBolt -- thanks to both of you.

LABOLT: Thanks -- Carol. COSTELLO: Still to come in the -- you're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the candidates address the question do black lives matter? Did they say enough?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:38:18] COSTELLO: I want to take you back to Israel to the old city, Jerusalem, where a would-be attacker was shot and killed by Israeli security. Ben Wedeman is on the site. So let's go there live. What new information do you have, Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we understand is that this attack, when it took place, it was by a man -- a young man wearing what appeared to be green camouflage military- style clothing, a T-shirt and pants, who attacked or tried to attack with a knife a private security guard who was escorting a family that was -- a family of tourists that was going inside the city. Now, the Israeli police has posted a picture of that knife on its Web site.

Now, I'm just going to now step out of the way so you get a better idea of the scene at the moment. Rather strange here. Just a little while ago, we were watching as a group of young Palestinian men, probably residents of this area, stood around the blood stain on the ground and prayed for the soul of the attacker who, of course, is now dead. We understand he was shot well over a dozen times by the many policemen who were here.

We were also watching as Israeli police and border guards were checking the IDs and searching Palestinians who, for one reason or another, they had reasons to have suspicions. So it's still a fairly tense scene because this is an area which is predominantly Palestinian-Arab. And so there's a lot of people standing around looking, and there is a lot of Israeli security, of course.

[10:40:02] So this was the first attack of the day. And I have to stress, Carol, that when you wake up in the morning, you hope that it's going to be a quiet day.

And it looked like that was going to be the case. But obviously, this incident has marred that quiet and once again, raised a level of alarm up to its highest level yet again. The hope is that things are going to calm down, but they just don't seem to -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Ben Wedeman, reporting live from Jerusalem this morning.

On to American politics now -- Democrats went after the African- American vote last night with nearly every candidate declaring that yes, black lives matter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do black lives matter, or do all lives matter?

SANDERS: Black lives matter.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The point that the Black Lives Matter movement is making is a very, very legitimate and serious point.

CLINTON: We've got to do more about the lives of these children.

JIM WEBB (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As president of the United States, every life in this country matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So was it a good starting point or not nearly enough? To talk about this, I'm joined by civil rights activist with the Black Lives Matter movement, DeRay McKesson. Welcome back.

DERAY MCKESSON, BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT: Thank you. It's good to be here.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here.

MCKESSON: It is important that the conversation about race sort of started but it was so short. You know, just one question. I do think Clinton has to be more forward in talking about race. She's the only candidate of the major candidates on the stage who didn't directly talk about race in her response, though she did talk about the task force and 21st century policing and body cameras. We were hoping for more from her and from all the candidates in terms of policy solutions.

COSTELLO: What policy do you want to hear from these candidates? I know that you met with Hillary Clinton not so long ago. What did you tell her that your community needed?

MCKESSON: Yes, so we talked about a host of things from the new, New Deal which is what she talked about. They are trying to make sure that that focuses on blackness; also demilitarizing the police, and alternatives to policing; and things as far-reaching like the end of private prisons and just a new way of thinking about criminal justice reform.

Is she willing to undo the crime bill that her husband put into place with the same force? Is she willing to apply that pressure?

And with Sanders, you know, we talked a lot about income versus wealth. He talked about the racial wealth gap last night. And he's also come out against civil asset forfeiture. But he has a platform that is strong.

I mean we're still waiting for Hillary Clinton to release her criminal justice or racial justice platform.

COSTELLO: And you're right, minority issues weren't talked about much last night. I think there was five minutes spent on Black Lives Matter and five minutes on immigration. Why do you think that was? MCKESSON: It's really odd considering these conversations have

been in the national stage for at least the past sort of 17, 18 months. It's really also disappointing. So I'm hopeful that we'll have another space where we can hear the candidates talk more candidly and more openly about these issues.

I don't know what CNN chose to do last night with the debate, but it is disappointing that again, it was such a small and sort of not policy-oriented question at all that the candidates answered about black lives.

COSTELLO: Well, the candidates were welcome to bring such matters up themselves, but they only concentrated on that short time as well. So do you think that some of those candidates might be taking the African-American vote for granted?

MCKESSON: You know, if they are, that will be to their peril. They all know and we stressed this in the meetings with them that they will not win without the black vote. I think people, if we don't start hearing direct language about black lives, I think that people will just stay home, and they know that they can't win if that's going to be the strategy.

So I'm hopeful that Sanders will release a stage two of his platform that is a little more robust and that we will see any platform around criminal justice from Clinton.

And O'Malley's platform is strong. I think that he still has not artfully explained why this platform is so progressive in his time as mayor does not seem to have been progressive around issues of criminal justice.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. DeRay McKesson -- thank you for joining me this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Hillary Clinton takes on Benghazi questions last night, but was her answer good enough or just confusing?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:48:50] COSTELLO: Hillary Clinton cemented her front-runner status at the Democratic debate, but she wasn't gaffe free. The role she's accused of playing by Republicans in the death of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans didn't exactly resonate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Unless you believe the United States should not send diplomats to any place that is dangerous, which I do not, then when we send them forth, there is always the potential for danger and risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Some say Clinton maybe better have a better answer because her next stop is Benghazi. Clinton will appear before a House Select Committee filled with angry Republicans.

With me now, former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm. She is now a senior adviser for Correct the Record -- a group backing Clinton's candidacy; and in Washington, Democratic strategist Peter Fenn. Welcome to both of you.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CORRECT THE RECORD: Thanks -- Carol.

PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thanks -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here.

So Jennifer, do you think that Clinton's answers on Benghazi were effective?

GRANHOLM: I do. I do. And she'll have more of an opportunity to go into great depth, I'm sure. I think the first answer that she gave last night, which really pivoted from this e-mail question to the select committee which was established and has spent $4.5 million of your taxpayer money on a partisan effort which now, of course, Kevin McCarthy has made very clear -- I thought that was really important to highlight.

[10:50:18] She will be going before the committee. She will be answering all of their questions. She's the one who has asked to testify. She's the one who has insisted that it be public. She will answer all of the questions. But after the seventh committee finished looking at this and did not find her personally responsible, which is a ridiculous notion that she would recruit the ambassador and be responsible for his death. But she will address all of that.

But last night I think her answer was on the money. And by the way, I think her performance was outstanding. She was a commander.

COSTELLO: Well, Peter, I think many Americans are confused by what exactly a secretary of state's role is in a situation like Benghazi.

FENN: Well, I think there's probably no question about that. But I think that what we've now discovered as the governor points out and I wrote about it last week in a column called "The Benghazi backfire" is that the Republicans have turned what was a look into how do you make our embassies more secure and how do you protect people into a hit job on Hillary Rodham Clinton. Now, that, to me, is pretty stupid.

I mean, that's not smart for the Republicans to do. And I think on the 22nd when she appears before that committee, they are going to have something to answer for. And I'll tell you, if I were those committee folks, I'd say let's have her in and out of here in an hour because I don't think we want to be taking the incoming from Hillary Clinton on this.

COSTELLO: I don't think that's going to happen, Peter.

FENN: Sorry? COSTELLO: I'm predicting that will not happen.

FENN: I don't think so. I think you're right.

GRANHOLM: I think that Republicans who have often railed against waste, fraud and abuse are guilty of waste, fraud and abuse in this committee, having spent all this money and now this committee has gone on longer than the investigation of Pearl Harbor and Watergate.

I think Peter is absolutely right. One hour in and out and they will be lucky to get out of there with their dignity intact.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about trustworthiness because that's been a problem for Hillary Clinton. And there was a certain exchange that I'd like our viewers to listen to about Clinton's e-mail -- Clinton's e-mail controversy and trustworthiness. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I know that plays well in this room, but I've got to be honest. Governor Chaffee, for the record, on the campaign trail, you've said a different thing. You said this is a huge issue. Standing here in front of Secretary Clinton, are you willing to say that to her face?

LINCOLN CHAFEE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'REILLY: We didn't have the best part when she said simply "no". But a lot of people said that was very effective. Peter, what do you think?

FENN: Well, you know, I think what's happened here -- and I've talked to some really smart Republicans who I consider reasonable Republicans, and they said, look you're making a big mistake going after Hillary Clinton on personal issues. You've always done this with the Clintons. You've always thought you had a silver bullet in some personal thing and you're going to hang your hat on this.

This campaign is going to be about issues. What people want to talk about is what was talked about at that debate. And Bernie Sanders was right, you know -- enough with the damn e-mails. And I think it's going to take her a while to work through all this, and she's going to be answering more questions about it.

But end of the day, Carol, I think that this will not be a governing issue into next spring and fall and November.

COSTELLO: Maybe for hardcore Democrats, but I don't know. I've got to end it there.

Peter Fenn, Jennifer Granholm -- thanks so much. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:58:31] COSTELLO: Income inequality, affordable health care

and the rising cost of tuition -- the candidates took on pocketbook issues last night. Let's head to Christine Romans on what you need to know.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And this is just the beginning, quite frankly. Income inequality really is the oxygen I think that is going to drive a lot of the debate for this part of the election season.

Let's talk about what they're talking about. Inequality, wages for everybody stagnant while corporate profits are a bigger, bigger part of the economy. And they say almost everybody on that stage say the first thing to do is raise the minimum wage.

They also talk about Wall Street regulations. Here's where you have some difference -- Carol.

You have Bernie Sanders saying break them up. Break up the big banks right now. They're bigger today than they were when we bailed them out. Break them up.

Hillary Clinton doesn't go that far. She wants to prosecute bad bankers. She wants to tax some high-frequency traders but not as many as Sanders want to tax. She wants to keep the Dodd-Frank regulations that are there now but give them a little more teeth and give regulators a little more power.

And then here's something really interesting. I think you're going to be hearing more about this, Carol. That chart should make every parent in this country cry. That is tuition since 1978 -- up 1,200 percent.

Bernie Sanders has an interesting proposal. He would like to tax Wall Street, a Wall Street tax where he says because the American people bailed out the banks, it's now time for the banks to turn around and bail out the middle class, pay for college, four-year college for anybody who qualifies in this country, paid for by the banks.

COSTELLO: I'm thinking that's not going to happen.

ROMANS: I'm thinking it's not going to happen, but it shows you where he is in this debate -- very populist part of the party there. But it does really -- it just is a reminder that the middle class wants something. Income inequality is not sustainable to Democrats, these will be their talking point the next year.

COSTELLO: Christine Romans -- thank you.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

[11:00:02] "AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.