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No Afghan Withdrawal; Clinton Targeted; Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 15, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] ASH CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Protect our own forces or in an - in an extremist situation.

QUESTION: Have you personally seen the gun camera video from that airstrike or either heard or read transcripts of any cockpit audio recordings from -

CARTER: I have gotten periodic reports from - but, again I'm waiting till the full investigation is done. This is an - a situation where we need to put all the facts together, make sure that every participant has an opportunity to be interviewed. We've looked at all the data. You're talking about one particular kind of data, but there's - there's other data as well. And make sure that we have the full story. I'm going to want the full story because I think we have promised the world that we would - we would give the facts when we have the facts. So I want to make sure we have them so that we can give them in a way that we have confidence in. And, second, I think if there are people who need to be held accountable, they need to be held accountable on the basis of those facts.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE), if you will. The president and you have said that this is a counterterror mission on remnants of al Qaeda. Is the Islamic State, as it builds a foothold there, also a target for U.S. forces there? And would that be purely for counterterror if they threaten, for instance, the U.S. homeland or also for, as you say, denying them a safe haven. And just more broadly, the president also said that the standard of success will be a lasting political settlement. That a full drawdown will come with, in his words, with a lasting political settlement. To your understanding, is that the standard of success that U.S. troops will remain there in numbers until there's a lasting political settlement with the Taliban?

CARTER: Well, let me take the first part first, which is - I mean counterterrorism is going to be part of the enduring mission there. And whatever it takes to protect our country and make sure that Afghanistan doesn't again become a platform from which terrorism arises, I'm confident we will take appropriate action. And I would dare say I'm confident that future presidents would do the same. We have to protect our people. We're going to do it.

With respect to the mission, the president was speaking of the prospect for reconciliation between the Afghan government and the Taliban. That is certainly something to be hoped for. It would be a - a - a - it would provide, as he said, for a lasting political settlement in Afghanistan. And we are fully supportive of that effort, Jim. We're fully support - but Afghan led. It can't be led by us. An Afghan led reconciliation effort. And that is certainly the outcome to be hoped for. And that would lead to a lasting political settlement in Afghanistan.

In the meantime, we're committed to helping the Afghan security forces defend themselves as long as there is a - an opposition to the - to the government. But, obviously, one hopes that that comes to an end. But that's not something that's in our hands and that's not something that's really in military hands. I think the president is pointing to the fact that that would have to be part of the reconciliation process.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, how will you judge the success of the revised plan on - by the time that President Obama leaves office? And, secondly, in light -

CARTER: I'm sorry, say it again, how would I -

QUESTION: How will you judge - what criteria or metrics will you use to judge the success of the revised plan? And, secondly, in light of today's announcement and the previous adjustments that were made to the plan, do you think it was perhaps a misstep to have announced a predetermined timeline for withdrawing U.S. troops in Afghanistan?

CARTER: Well, for the second part, you always have to have a plan at a certain time because we need - we ask for that. So we ask for - tell us what we should assume, what we plan for - remember, we asked - we submit budgets two years in advance. We have force flows to adjust, construction to do, people to prepare for deployment, train up for deployment. So it takes a certain amount of time and planning.

That said, I think the president has shown that he's willing to depart from the plan when circumstances suggest. And so there have been a host of circumstances since last year of which one notable one, just to pick one, was the length of the transition between the Karzai government and the - and the national unity government, which was - a long and an unanticipated way and set things back in time. So that's a factor.

You said how would I measure success over the next year and a half. I think there are a couple of ingredients. One is, how successful we are with our Afghan partners at suppressing terrorism and carrying out strikes aimed at, first of all, obviously eliminating al Qaeda, but anyone else who threatens the United States. A second big indicator would be how the Afghan security forces are doing both in terms of their combat performance. And another critical ingredient was there - ingredient which is - which, for which next year is very important, is the building of their own enablers. Their air force, for example, the A-29s, helicopter forces and so forth. So these are some of the - these will be some of the things that we're aiming to achieve over the next year. And I think the president's decision reflects the fact that we - it will be easier for us to achieve those things, which Afghanistan needs at a force level of 9,800 than it would be if we wound down faster. So that's one of the reasons.

[14:06:01] Gordon.

OK, sorry, I was going for - going for - going for Gordon just for old times' sake since he and I were on an airplane last week and might be again. But I do need to go see the defense minister on the Republic of Korea, if anybody wants to join us.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) jump in.

Just on the drawdown plan, we're hearing that it's not a calendar- based plan on the 5,500 in the 20 effort - at the end of 2016. But, you know, it sounds like it is a calendar based plan. So I'm wondering if the commander at the time next fall - you know, at the end of 2016 says, we don't want to go down to 5,500, how big of a lift would it be to reassess that and let the 9,800 stay?

CARTER: I can't say that. It's a long time from now in a different set of circumstances. Obviously, and this gets back to the question that Jim asked, at any one time you make a plan that seems reasonable to you at the time, a reasonable forecast, this seems like a reasonable forecast. I'm grateful that the president was willing to, in fact eager to make an adjustment in a plan that was, after all, over a year old, in light of circumstances that constantly change. That's the nature of this kind of conflict, the nature of this kind of development. So I would assume that people here in the Department of Defense and people in the rest of the government will always be willing to make adjustments to plans in a matter as grave as this based on intervening circumstances. To me that's just common sense.

CARTER: OK, thank you all very much. Good to see you.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Afghanistan, you just heard there the secretary of defense, Ash Carter, saying that the mission, enduring mission, will be counterterrorism. Day-to-day will be combatting that. Really echoing what we heard from President Obama this morning.

Let's get right to it. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin here. We've been listening in to what's been happening at the Pentagon. And let me just back up. I mean this is really a sobering reality check on America's longest war. A major reversal from President Obama on what he hoped would be one of the biggest legacies of his own administration, ending the war in Afghanistan. Today, that announcement came that this will not happen on his watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Their mission will not change. Our troops will continue to pursue those two narrow tasks that I outlined earlier, training Afghan forces and going after al Qaeda. But maintaining our current posture through most of next year, rather than a more rapid drawdown, will allow us to sustain our efforts to train and assist Afghan forces as they go stronger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: To recap, 9,800 troops will stay for most of 2016. The reason for this reversal of a planned pull out, Afghan forces are not as strong as they need to be. Those words coming from President Obama from the Roosevelt Room earlier today, just a little more than a year after he made the announcement from the Rose Garden that the U.S. would be largely pulling out of Afghanistan. And it is clear that today's decision did not come easily.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Afghanistan remains dangerous. Twenty-five brave Americans have given their lives there this year. I do not send you into harm's way lightly. It's the most solemn decision that I make. I know the wages of war and the wounded warriors I visit in the hospital and in the grief of gold star families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this with Peter Beinart, CNN political commentator and contributing editor of "The Atlantic." Also with us, Lieutenant Colonel Scott Man, author of "Game Changers" and retired U.S. Army special forces.

Gentlemen, thanks for being on with me.

[14:10:01] And, colonel, to you first. I understand you respect the president's decision. Tell me why.

LT. COL. SCOTT MAN (RET.), AUTHOR, "GAME CHANGERS": Yes. Good to see you, Brooke. Thanks for having me on.

BALDWIN: Yes.

MAN: I do respect the president's decision. I think it shows that he's listening to his senior leaders and he's listening to his generals and I think he's making this decision, you know, based on the realities of the threat on the ground. And I think that's a good thing. However, I just want to caveat that I still believe that the policy that we're following and the way that we're going about this and the how, if you will, is still misguided. I think that we're taking the wrong approach.

BALDWIN: Why? Why do you say that?

MAN: Well, because the reality is, if we don't want Afghanistan to become a safe haven for terror, and the president said it, you know, himself this morning that he wants a self-sustaining capacity, we have to do a better job of seeing the realities in Afghanistan that only 20 percent - the government's only able to affect about 20 percent of the country and the population. Eighty percent of it, Brooke, is still rural and tribal. That means bottom up, which means the Taliban are exploiting the rural areas right now. What we do in the urban areas and with the - the Afghan military is good, but we're going to have to get out there in the (INAUDIBLE) lands and help locals stand up against the Taliban where they're establishing their safe haven. And we're not doing that right now.

BALDWIN: Peter, do you agree?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, the problem is we - even if - with this - with this larger force, only going to have 5,000 troops in Afghanistan, which is a very large country. The United States doesn't have the capacity to defeat the Taliban, especially because Pakistan, right on its border, is a defacto ally of the Taliban. When you've got a large country next door that's basically supporting this insurgency, and you've got 5,000 troops, yes, we're meant to train the Afghan forces, but we saw that the Afghan forces just utterly collapsed in the city of Kunduz not recently -

BALDWIN: Right.

BEINART: Recently against only a few hundred Taliban.

BALDWIN: Right.

BEINART: I think on the one hand Barack Obama is doing this in the shadow of what happened in Iraq where he -

BALDWIN: I was about to say, is this lessons learned, Islamic State, look at what happened there precisely.

BEINART: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BEINART: Because he doesn't want what happened in Afghanistan (ph) to happen in Iraq (ph). On the other hand, it's very hard to see how these 5,000 troops are really going to put us in a position where the Afghan government is strong enough to force the Taliban into a peace settlement.

BALDWIN: And, colonel, let me just play some sound. We mentioned, you know, the president's announcement a year ago, the Rose Garden. Juxtapose that with what we saw this morning. Let's - let's go back a year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Starting next year, Afghans will be fully responsible for securing their country. American personnel will be in an advisory role. We will no longer patrol Afghan cities or towns, mountains or valleys. That is a task for the Afghan people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I mean that was the president a year ago and here we are now. How do you - I mean, obviously, let's just switch this to the fact that we are getting going in this election season. This is something that we're going to see candidates on both sides, you know, comment on. Their own policies potentially if they're elected into office. What will you be looking for from a military perspective, colonel, as far as how they stand in Afghanistan moving forward? MAN: Well, Brooke, this is something I talk about a lot in my book,

"Game Changers," which is - is the approach that we take as advisers. We keep saying advising, but what we have to understand is, America has advised in fragile states before, Colombia, the Philippines, Ecuador, El Salvador. There is an approach to this. You know, it depends on who the 5,000 are. I agree with Peter that we've got to be careful about what they're able to do. But if it's 5,000, for example, special forces advisers, working with Afghan special forces advisers out in rural areas helping local partisans or local villagers stand up on their own, that's a pretty powerful component. And we saw that in 2010 through 2012.

We've been here before. I would encourage us to step back and look before 2001 at some of our successes in small wars and I think we'll find that there are actually some answers out there we can use.

BALDWIN: Quickly on politics. I mentioned, you know, folks running for president. Governor Huckabee already tweeting, "Afghanistan was the launching pad for the 9/11 attacks and the American people deserve justice, dignity and closure." He's jumping on it. I'm sure, Peter, others will as well. A way to spin this?

BEINART: Yes, although it's interesting, you actually don't hear very much. You haven't heard so much - so far in the campaign a lot about Afghanistan. It's kind of a forgotten war.

BALDWIN: We thought they'd mention it in the debate and -

BEINART: Right, much, much more about Iran, much, much more about ISIS. I think the Republicans will probably applaud this move -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BEINART: While criticizing Obama for things he did in the past. But the reality is, there's not the stomach in the country for a larger, more aggressive policy in Afghanistan and that's why the Republicans aren't going to advocate one.

BALDWIN: Peter Beinart, thank you so much.

BEINART: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And Lieutenant Colonel Scott Man, I appreciate you as well. Thank you both.

MAN: Thanks for having me.

Coming up next here on CNN, Hillary Clinton visiting the lone star state - live pictures here from San Antonio - courting Hispanic voters and perhaps tipping her had about possible running mates down the road, who she might want on her ticket.

Also, we are one week away from the Benghazi hearing. Now another Republican congressman says that committee was designed to target Hillary Clinton, to take her down. [14:15:02] Also, 911 calls take us inside those frantic moments when

former NBA and reality star Lamar Odom was found unconscious in a Nevada brothel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALLER: He's got blood coming out of his nose, white stuff coming out of his mouth. They can't get him to wake up. He's like not - almost not breathing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What happened? We have that.

Also, is the Middle East on the brink? What the Israeli government is telling its citizens to do amid the growing unrest. Stay here. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, I've been told by some to quit talking about this, to quit shouting about this. Well, I'll tell you right now, I will not be silenced and we will not be silenced. We must continue to speak up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:03] BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton firing up a crowd there, San Antonio, Texas, most recently talking gun reform. It was an issue that a number of those candidates really chewed on for about 10 minutes the other night in Las Vegas. The sign in front of her, (INAUDIBLE), I am with you, she says, to the people of San Antonio.

Let's move on here because the issue is she's been holding this Q&A with the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. She didn't get any questions specifically about the 2102 attack that killed those four Americans in Benghazi on her watch as secretary of state, but that will not be the case exactly one week from today when the first time she will be testifying before the government committee investigating what happened there. It is a committee under serious, serious scrutiny itself now that this second Republican lawmaker has now said the panel has been going after Hillary Clinton specifically. I want you to listen to this. This is New York Congressman Richard Hanna on WIBX 9050 here in New York. Congressman Hanna not a member of the Benghazi committee, but here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RICHARD HANNA (R), NEW YORK: Sometimes the biggest sin you can commit in D.C. is to tell the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes.

HANNA: You know, and I - this may not be politically correct, but I - I think that there is a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people and an individual, Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, CNN political commentator and Republican consultant Margaret Hoover, and you could say husband, and her hubs, CNN political analyst John Avlon, who is editor-in-chief at "The Daily Beast."

Love having the two of you on at the same time.

Margaret, let me just turn to you because -

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Love it.

BALDWIN: I know you - you spoke with Congressman Hanna earlier.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I did.

BALDWIN: So add Congressman Hanna to what Kevin McCarthy said, to the Benghazi whistleblower who spoke exclusively with Jake Tapper. This is great for Hillary Clinton. Not so great for Republicans. How do they explain this?

HOOVER: Well, so, you know, what Congressman Hanna said to me, and what he tried to characterize in that interview, is that what he doesn't like about Washington is the tone and the tenor of the teamism (ph). That there are always people who want to one up, want to do Republicans versus Democrats. He said, we're wearing red shirts and black shirts or, you know, skins versus whatever it is, and it's not about sort of the good of the country. I think - you know, that - he was commenting on the nature of Kevin McCarthy's comments rather than on Trey Gowdy and how he's handled the investigation, which he admits he's not on the committee and Trey Gowdy has a great representation for being a very serious leader of this committee. And so I - to be fair, I think the congressman also is one of these people who just speaks truth to power and he - and he doesn't always listen to what the orthodoxy of the Republican Party is. He was the second Republican to come out for freedom to marry in the entire House of Representatives.

BALDWIN: John Avlon, you know I adore your wife, but are you buying what she's throwing down here?

HOOVER: No, but - I'm honest. I'm just telling it like it is.

BALDWIN: From a Republican perspective obviously here.

AVLON: I am in this case. And here's why.

BALDWIN: Yes.

AVLON: Look, it's an illustration of the value that centrists are straight shooters. And as we've seen the decline of Northeast Republicans and centrist Republicans becoming an endangered species, we lose that kind of candor that's willing to challenge sort of the suffocating orthodoxy of the party loyalty to often (ph) demands. And so you actually get the truth from an elected representative in Washington.

BALDWIN: Suffocating orthodoxy. All right, OK.

AVLON: What's that?

BALDWIN: I said suffocating orthodoxy, my goodness, John Avlon, I'm with you. I'm with you.

Let me pivot because - because I want - I want to take our viewers -

HOOVER: Thanks, baby.

BALDWIN: I want to take our viewers inside some of these CNN polls here because what's interesting is, Donald Trump, he's leading his closest competitor, Ben Carson, by double digits in two key states that are among the first to hold primary contests in February. In our new CNN/ORC poll, Nevada, Trump has 38 percent of the Republican voters compared to Carson's 22. In South Carolina, Trump has double the support than Carson, 36 percent to 18. But this is what I want to hone in on, stay with me, Republicans also rated Trump number one on handling multiple issues, the economy, foreign policy, ISIS, 47 percent of Nevada think he would be best at handling the terror group amid all the Republican candidates, 37 percent think the same in South Carolina. John, your reaction to that?

AVLON: My reaction is sort of the, you know, the confused dog look on foreign policy. You know, I get why Republican primary voters would think that Donald Trump would be good on his economy. That's his brand is being a successful businessman. However, that might contrast with reality. The second thing is illegal immigration. He's made that the cornerstone. But to have confidence in Donald Trump on foreign policy takes a leap of imagination because it has nothing to do with his experience or anything he's said or done. It's that weakness for the strong and wrong where if someone is enormously convincing and enormously compelling, you assume they're enormously competent. That is not always true, especially in this case, and it's a sign of a problem for my wife's Republican Party.

BALDWIN: Would you care to respond?

HOOVER: Look, John Avlon has a good point. I wish he wasn't right, but, look, this is a - these are unheard of times. These are unheard of times, though. I mean it is really difficult for anybody in the Republican establishment, or not even just the Republican establishment, toward anybody who's watching this to understand what he's galvanized and what Donald Trump is really channeling here. He does still have the power of celebrity. He does still have the power of 15 or 14 other competitors, and the power to cut through all of this because of his celebrity platform.

[14:25:24] I do think it's getting close to d-day though and we're getting close to Iowa, we're getting close to New Hampshire. I suspect he'll be in it through these early states. Does that matter? I mean the real push is Florida and all of the March, April, and May states and you try to have the money and the organization, the infrastructure to stay in through there because, remember, you've got one or two delegates in New Hampshire. By the way, they split proportionately. You've got to start adding up lots of delegates March and April and May. And I haven't even seen him build the party infrastructure to galvanize these kind of poll numbers, translate them into a real nomination.

BALDWIN: Can we - can we pivot from poll numbers to dancing, please? Do you know where I'm going with this?

HOOVER: Always. Always.

AVLON: Please.

BALDWIN: Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders on "Ellen." I mean -

HOOVER: Amazing.

BALDWIN: I don't even want to talk. I just want to watch.

I don't know how the rhythm's going there but - but what do you say - I mean to both of you. I mean this is - obviously we've seen - you know, we've seen Hillary Clinton. She was on "SNL." She was boogying with Ellen as well. Is this a way for, you know, here he is, the self- proclaimed Democratic socialist, to show a softer (INAUDIBLE)?

HOOVER: Even Democratic socialists can dance.

BALDWIN: There you go.

HOOVER: That's - and but what I would like to see is Republicans dancing.

BALDWIN: Yes, where -

HOOVER: So, Ellen, please have Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio on to dance.

BALDWIN: Well, we know Trump's going to be on "SNL."

HOOVER: We want - I want to see Carly Fiorina actually dancing. That's what I want to see.

BALDWIN: All right, Margaret Hoover, John Avlon.

AVLON: Yes.

BALDWIN: He's like, I got nothing. I got nothing.

John, thank you.

AVLON: I mean, look, what's the point of supporting the (INAUDIBLE) if you can't dance?

BALDWIN: Thanks, you guys. Thank you so much.

AVLON: Bye (ph).

BALDWIN: Coming up next - coming up next, on a much, much more serious note here, former NBA star, reality star Lamar Odom in critical condition at a Las Vegas hospital after being found by a sex worker at this Nevada brothel, found unconscious. What medical experts are saying about the so-called herbal Viagra. This as we are learning much, much harder drugs may have been involved here.

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