Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Turkey Shot Down a Drone Flying In its Airspace Near the Syrian border; The Cast of "The Cosby Show" on a Magazine Cover. Aired 3:30- 4p ET

Aired October 16, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: So it goes so quickly from hey, I'm pulling you over because you flashed your brights at me to this young man not complying. Eventually, he does. He gets down on the ground all the while with his cell phone, you know, recording what's happening. He is tased. Tase isn't effective, you know, gets up, punches the officer and ultimately is shot and killed. It all escalates like that.

DAVID KATZ, FIREARMS AND HOMELAND SECURITY EXPERT: And that's what I have said on your show a million times. Every single one of these shootings begins with one thing, noncompliance with a lawful order. The police - listen, no one likes getting pulled over. You're speeding, I didn't roll the stops, whatever it is. This is not the time to litigate the case. This is time, if a police officer says get out of the car, you're under arrest.

BALDWIN: Are there not other options with officer? Are there not?

KATZ: OK. That's a great question. Listen to what he did. First of all, he senses it's going bad. What did he do? He calls. You know the car rolling. Backup is on the way. Now, backup in his jurisdiction, clearly is not - in NYPD, you call in New York, (INAUDIBLE). Three seconds later and you have a sea of blue. Not there. So he is doing the right thing. He gets out of the front. He get the tickets out of the car. By the way, the kid had no license.

BALDWIN: That's right.

KATZ: So at that point, if the officer so chooses, that's an arrest. A summons is in lieu of arrest. So now, the whole fact and circumstances lead the officer to make the arrest. The kid does not comply. And at some point, it goes bad enough to where the kid is punching the officer to where he feels that he is in jeopardy. And that's what happened.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Forensically, Brooke, just briefly what happened is apparently tests were done and it determined that the shots were frontal shots that the officer engaged in with the 17-year- old and the trajectory was such that it indicated that there was some type of struggle there. And that's what's going to be litigated in this lawsuit, which is a 1983 action which is the deprivation of a civil right. Should an officer use excessive force? That's what will be litigated in the civil case. Of course, he was cleared from any, you know, criminal wrong doing. But I think it's a tough case to make when an officer reasonably fears they are in threat.

Final point to make is the constitution has said officers have a split second to make a decision and what would a reasonable officer do in that situation. That's going to be the focus. If a reasonable officer would have acted as this officer acted, then it would be deemed to be legitimate.

BALDWIN: Again, initially by the prosecutor, the officer cleared of any criminal wrong doing. Now the suit from the family will follow it.

Gentlemen, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you.

KATZ: Thank you for having us.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here, we often hear about the destruction from war in Syria. We see photos like this. But next, we want to focus on the human side of the brutal violence. How this is affecting parents and children? The side that you don't often see. I'll speak live with a Syrian-American woman who still has family members in the war zone. The devastated Syrian city of Aleppo. Do not miss this conversation. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:12] BALDWIN: Just past bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The situation in Syria escalating. News today, Turkey shot down a drone flying for its air space near the Syrian border. Russia denies that it was one of theirs, but defense source who tells CNN the drone belongs to Moscow. This is a refugee crisis becomes increasingly dire. Hungary saying it will close their border with Croatia to stem the flow of all of those refugees.

Joining me now is someone personally touched by all of this. She is Nora Barre.

Nora, thank you so much for joining me.

NORA BARRE, SYRIAN AMERICAN: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: So many back story for people watching. You were born in Syria. You came to the U.S. as a young girl with your family. Some of your relatives, though, are still in Turkey and Syria. And you told your story actually, just a couple weeks ago. You stood up at a town hall for Jeb Bush and you shared your story. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRE: I have 14 family members that just left Syria. Their house was bombed. Their factories, their livelihood, I've been supporting them for the last five years just to eat and I just got them out to Turkey. I just want to know, what are we going to help? Are we going to let Putin run this world? He's a dictator. He cannot have the world stage and that's what's been happening. That's what is happening today. I would like to know your views.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sure. First of all, my heart goes out to your family. And I applaud the fact that you're acting on your part to talk care of them and that should be applauded by everybody in this room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Understandable how emotional this is for you, Nora. I want to ask more about your recent meeting with Jeb Bush. But first, you know, with regard with what's happening in Aleppo, the regime reportedly planning a major ground offensive, you have family still there. You have been in touch with them recently. How are they doing? What's their condition there?

BARRE: Brooke, they are really stressed out. The situation is dire. And they don't even have the basics currently. Their homes are bombed and have to leave. They have (INAUDIBLE) area. And they have a little baby, so therefore, you know, formula milk, water, there's no running water. There's no electricity. The conditions are (INAUDIBLE) and unsanitary.

Things are terrible there. They are being barrel bombed by Assad. And he's also using chemical weapons in Aleppo. You got Iran troops on the ground. You got recently you heard Cuban generals also helping in Syria. And then Russian war planes bombing U.S.-funded hospitals. There are Syrian-Americans funding these hospitals in Aleppo that Russia is targeting.

So their situation is dire. The atmosphere is very tense in Aleppo. People are really afraid. There's a visible military buildup. You have to think of some people that are internally displaced. They don't even have shelter. So they are sitting in gardens or abandoned yards or under any kind of, you know, shelter that they could find in doorways of neighborhoods. So the situation is very, very desperate.

[15:40:23] BALDWIN: So this is what's happening in Syria. You also have your grandmother and young cousins who were able to get out and are in neighboring Turkey. But I know you have described that they are equally terrified there.

BARRE: Yes, they are. So you know, they are doing amazing as in they are safe, but they have lost everything. They are rebuilding from scratch. They don't have a place to call home. Turkey has forbidden Syrians from working. So they don't have a way of earning a paycheck and feeding themselves. There are 11 people living in one apartment. And regardless of Turkey's rules, they are actually going out and trying to seek employment of any kind. And they haven't been successful. And the children are so traumatized. You know, the first time they went to a playground in five years, my aunt was telling me they just sat there. They didn't know how to slide or swing or do anything. She had to like push them on to the playground so they would play. School recently started. They are still anxious. They have huge

separation anxiety. Every day they cry thinking, you know, because back in Syria their school was bombed and they watched their teacher being carried out in pieces in front of them and their classmates, because they are always living in anxiety that would happen to them. So they are constantly reassuring the children that they are going to be OK, they will see their mom and dad after school --yes.

BALDWIN: That visual, we think of our children here in the United States and to think a child in Turkey doesn't even know how to slide down a slide because it's been so long that some little has been on a playground and that's why this issue is so important, especially, you know, on the campaign trail and seeing how these candidates, potential president, would handle the situation in Syria.

You were at that town hall with Jeb Bush. You met with him again recently this week at another town hall. What do you make of his response to you solving a crisis? Are you satisfied with his answer?

BARRE: I'm very satisfied. I just wish he was president now. Because if Bush was president now, Iran wouldn't be in Syria and neither would Russia and neither would Cuba. We wouldn't have ISIS. I believe that --

BALDWIN: We don't know that. ISIS had been there for years and years and years, in a different form, but go ahead.

BARRE: Right, but I feel like there wouldn't be barrel bombs in Aleppo. And you know, I'm an independent who voted for Obama, but Obama has completely abandoned the Syrian people. They are being butchered every day. There's over 100 people every day being killed on average. And I feel that governor Bush has outlined a strategy to enforce a no-fly zone and to provide a safe refuge.

You know, we have this refugee crisis and we have to hit the root of it. And the root is Assad, (INAUDIBLE) in Russia. And we have a no- fly zone, people can go back home. My family wants to go back home. All Syrians, they want to go back home. They just need it to be safe. So nobody, you know, and we wouldn't is addressing the refugee crisis. Why don't we address the problem of the crisis and that's Assad, ISIS, Russia now. So the Syrian-American community were all behind Governor Bush. He knows what's going on and we're rooting for him. And we will be behind him to get him elected.

BALDWIN: OK. My heart goes out to you and your family. And I hope we stay in close contact. We want to hear how your family members are doing, both of course, in Aleppo. But also in Turkey.

Nor Barre, thank you so much.

BARRE: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here on CNN, the Cosby family photo behind shattered glass. The editor in-chief of "Ebony" magazine joins me live to talk about this provocative cover that is stirring up a lot of emotions. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:37] BALDWIN: For decades "Ebony" magazine has been known for telling stories that affect African-Americans. Stories the mainstream media wouldn't necessarily tell. And that tradition continues in next month's issue. It focuses on the black family. The cover features a famous fictitious family that was once the most beloved in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a doctor and mom's a lawyer. You're both successful in everything and that's great. But maybe I was born to be a regular person. And so instead of acting disappointed because I'm not like you, maybe you can just accept who I am and love me anyway because I'm your son.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And this is the cover we're talking about. The cast of "the Cosby Show" is seen through a shattered glass picture frame. The title here, family issues, Cosby versus Cliff. It's a powerful provocative image that comes on the heels of a mired sexual assault allegations against the show patriarch, actor, Bill Cosby. The image has become a radical wakeup call for some. For others, it's a soul disturbing depiction.

With me "Ebony's" editor in-chief, Kierna Mayo. The pleasure and a privilege to have you on.

KIERNA MAYO, EDITOR IN-CHIEF, EBONY: Mine as well, thank you.

BALDWIN: You haven't slept for two days.

MAYO: I have not slept for two days.

BALDWIN: Because of this cover.

MAYO: Because of this cover.

[15:50:001 BALDWIN: Because of this photo that you all choose. Take me -- lift the veil and explain to me the unorthodox way in which you all arrived at this.

MAYO: You know, Well, I am relatively new to being the editor in- chief of "Ebony" magazine. I've been here for five months and I'm constantly thinking about what we can do to separate ourselves from the pack. And when it came to doing family, talking about what black families are really concerned about today, I decided we needed to deviate from looking at celebrity through a modern lens. The bottom line is this is an urgent conversation happening in black America. It was going to happen whether or not we did this or not.

And so we really decided amongst ourselves that we were going to take a chance. And when I say I haven't slept it's because when you understand the soul of black America and you understand how important iconography is and you understand how important the image of black family perfection if you will is, you realize there's no way to do something like this without it being hug hugely conversational if not confrontational and in many cases painful for people.

BALDWIN: I want to look back on the ramifications for, you know, black families because of this image, but first not a lot of people love this. Let me read, this is one comment. And many do. We'll get to that.

But Ebony, if you feel this way why Grace the cover with the photo? It's very apparent you want to hurt the Cosby and Huxtable legacy. Don't expect my dollar probably ever again.

Malcolm-Jamal Warner, actor who played Theo was on "the View" today. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALCOLM-JAMAL WARNER, ACTOR: We really don't have enough time on this show to really talk about how I feel about that cover.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's kind of a fractured picture of the family, right?

WARNER: Of course. It can't help but be tarnished because it's no longer on the air. It's been pulled off of air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the shows are off the air. It's not the only one off the air. There are many shows not being on the air anymore.

WARNER: This show was specifically pulled off the air because of what's going on. So the fact that because, you know, throughout even since the show when we've had images that perpetuate the negative stereotype of people of color, we've always had the Cosby show to hold up against that. And the fact that we no longer have that kind of leaves us not in a great place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Not in a great place. If he were sitting here what would you say to him?

MAYO: Many things. And probably a lot more off camera rather than on camera, quite frankly. And this speaks to the fact that many black people feel this is an airing of dirty laundry if you will. And it's disheartening to me in a way to discover that for many pockets of black America -- and I have to separate some of what we're seeing and hearing from large numbers of what we're hearing on the other side there are lots of people who are singing our praises.

BALDWIN: Absolutely.

MAYO: And spoken to something that is vital. But I think I would tell Malcolm, one, we mean you in particular no disrespect, no harm whatsoever. I think that "Ebony" is reacting to, again, a very urgent conversation. We simply are not the reason that there is a shattered legacy. We are not the reason that we are talking about something that has been fractured. We are reacting to the fact that this fracture has happened and the question is now what.

BALDWIN: To your point about support to be fair absolutely you're getting a lot of love and praise. Someone wrote this cover is perfect. You know why? Because it forces us to address issues that take place behind the curtains of a picture perfect family.

On the notion of picture perfect and this is the final question that you alluded to off the top, I mean, it was a huge deal to have this family on television for as long as they were, doctor, successful, positive. And with the shattered image does it shatter the legacy and what that represented for so many black families?

MAYO: Again, I would submit that "Ebony" itself is not shattering anything. We are simply asking African-Americans to have a very passionate, very honest and very forthright conversation about what this means.

BALDWIN: Kierna Mayo, I can't wait to hear more of what you're thinking.

MAYO: Wait until you read the article, it's fantastic.

BALDWIN: I can't wait. Thank you so much, editor in-chief "Ebony" magazine. It's a pleasure. Thank you.

MAYO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Jake Tapper sitting down with Hillary Clinton in an exclusive today. Do not miss this. Their entire conversation minutes away. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:58:55] BALDWIN: Voting is now officially open for the top ten CNN heroes of 2015. One of them Dr. Jim Withers. For 23 years, he has been bringing free medical care to Pittsburg's homeless population. Each and every week his team is out and about venturing out into the night, under alleys and under bridges along highways carrying medical supplies and a message that you matter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JIM WITHERS, CNN HERO: It's not hard to go out and see them. It's hard going home at night and knowing there are people still sleeping out there. Once you know they're there, it haunts you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Withers' team has helped more than 10,000 people. His nonprofit, the street Medicine Institute supports dozens of communities in the United States and all around the world and starting programs of their very own. To see them in action you can visit homeless camps at night. Go to

our CNN heroes Web site. And while you are there we are urging you to check out all of these incredible stories, all of this year's top ten heroes and then vote for your favorite to become CNN hero of the year that is at CNNheroes.com.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Thank you so much for being with me.

As you well know you're about to see a very special edition of "the LEAD." Jake Tapper is live from New Hampshire fresh off his exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton. Do not move. You got to watch.

"The LEAD" starts now.