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Hillary Clinton in the South; Trump's New Feud with Jeb Bush; Lamar Odom Still Fighting for His Life; Donald Trump's Trusted Adviser; Obama Plans to Reduce U.S. Presence to 5,000+ By 2017; Parents Charged in Son's Fatal Beating. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 17, 2015 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:00:21] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, 4:00 Eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

Right now, Hillary Clinton is looking for support in the south. She addressed the Alabama Democratic Conference in a suburb of Birmingham this afternoon. She slammed the state's controversial voter I.D. law and she also criticized the recent decision to close dozens of the state's driver's licenses offices, mostly in really predominantly African-American neighborhoods.

Senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson on the ground. She was there to hear it all in the town of Hoover, Alabama. How did the crowd respond when Clinton came down hard on the state for a number of these moves?

NIA MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: They cheered. This is very much a pro-Hillary Clinton crowd, and it's also a crowd that is filled with activism. People who very much want to see some of these restrictive voting laws repealed. Voting laws that they say have suppressed the African-American vote. And of course, just recently, Governor Bentley announced that 31 DMVs across the state would be closed.

That, of course, means that some people may not be able to get driver's licenses as readily. Of course, you need some sort of voting I.D. to vote here or some kind of I.D., basically, to vote. So she came down really hard. I think we've got some sound on her talking about this. This new sort of move by the Alabama government here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to defend the most fundamental right in our democracy, the right to vote. No one, in this state, no one would ever forget the history that enabled generations of people left out and left behind to finally be able to vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENDERSON: There she is, trying to connect the history of this state, what's going on here now. Very much, this crowd very much applauded her. She got a standing ovation after she wrapped up her remarks, which ran about 30 minutes. Just recently, about five minutes ago, in fact, this group said they were going to throw their support behind Hillary Clinton.

They did the same thing in 2008. And of course, we know this is part of her entire strategy to get the southern vote, which of course we know, is really based on African-American turnout in a democratic primary.

HARLOW: Certainly, and she's been doing a lot better than Bernie Sanders, in terms of garnering African-American support. But, vice president Joe Biden hasn't made a decision yet, right? You're on the ground, there are more and more signs that he might jump into this race. He had this call yesterday with his very influential, the head of one of the most influential labor unions in this country. What's the Clinton camp saying to you today on the ground there about what they're thinking about Biden getting in possibly?

HENDERSON: Well, Clinton campaign supporters have a lot of affection for Joe Biden here, but they feel like they found their candidate. And in many ways, they feel like the door has closed for Joe Biden. I even talked to some folks who support Joe Biden in South Carolina yesterday, and they are getting a little antsy as well about this decision. They feel like it should have been made a little while ago, but they're also anticipating that maybe he'll jump in, maybe that will energize the race. So, in any minute now, this could happen, or, within days, we're told by the Biden camp, which has kept a lot of this under wraps, and essentially they're saying it's all up to Joe Biden, a decision hasn't been made yet. We'll just have to wait and see.

HARLOW: So we will be watching, Nia-Malika Henderson, joining us there. Thank you so much.

Hillary Clinton did speak yesterday, exclusively to our Jake Tapper in an interview in New Hampshire. They talked about a whole lot of topics, including, of course, Benghazi, ahead of that testimony she has this week on the hill. Jake?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": That's right. I'm here in beautiful Keene, New Hampshire, where Hillary Clinton has just pulled ahead of her challenger, Bernie Sanders, in the first poll taken since the first democratic debate. We talked about everything from her marriage to Bill. They just celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary, to her Republican rivals, who she's preparing to face down next week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: You're scheduled to testify before the Benghazi committee in the House of Representatives in a few days. What are you expecting and how are you preparing?

CLINTON: I really don't know what to expect. I think it's pretty clear that whatever they might have thought they were doing, they ended up becoming a partisan arm of the Republican National Committee, with an overwhelming focus on trying to, as they admitted, drive down my poll numbers.

[16:05:05]

I've already testified about Benghazi. I testified to the best of my ability before the Senate and the House. I don't know that I have very much to add. This is, after all, the eighth investigation. Other committees of the Congress, standing committees with very experienced members and staff have all looked into this and basically just rejected the conspiracy theories that are still floating out there in some circles. So I really don't know.

I will do my best to answer their questions, but I don't really know what their objective is right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: There's lots more to our conversation about Benghazi, her e- mail server, Afghanistan, making college affordable. You can watch it all this Sunday on "State of the Union" at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern.

HARLOW: We will be watching "State of the Union" tomorrow morning, 9:00 a.m., right here on CNN. Again, don't miss Jake's exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton.

On the other side of the aisle, republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump not saying much today after being pressed by CNN political reporter M.J. Lee on his controversial 9/11 remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Mr. Trump, can you clarify? Do you think that 9/11 was President Bush's fault?

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Guys - media -

LEE: -- on Twitter that your comments about 9/11 -

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: All right. With me now from Washington is CNN's Chris Frates. Chris, this all started when Trump spoke about the fact that 9/11 happened on President George Bush's watch. Let's look at that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you talk about George Bush, say what you want, the World Trade Center came down during his time. If you look -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hold on. You can't blame George Bush for that.

TRUMP: Well, he was president, OK? Don't blame him or blame him, he was president. The World Trade Center came down during his reign. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right. Jeb Bush fired back, tweeting, "how pathetic for Donald Trump to criticize the president for 9/11. We were attacked and my brother kept us safe." Chris, anything more from Trump on this today?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: You know, nothing more yet, Poppy. And this is becoming part of a pattern. It seems, you know, for once, Trump doesn't have much to say. And I want to show you how he handled questions after a campaign rally last night. We saw a bit of that. Let's see a little bit more about how M.J. Lee pressed Trump on this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: Mr. Trump, can you clarify? Do you think that 9/11 was President Bush's fault?

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Media - OK -

LEE: -- Twitter that your comments about 9/11 were -

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Hey!

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Why don't you want to comment about the 9/11 comments, sir? Mr. Trump, can we get reaction to Jeb Bush about your 9/11 comment, please?

UNIDENTIFED MALE: 9/11 comments?

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Sir, would you like to clarify your 9/11 comments that Jeb Bush is calling out. We've all asked you a few times, sir, can you please answer us?

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Would you like to comment on Jeb Bush?

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Mr. Trump, no comment on Jeb Bush? Mr. Trump, with all due respect, why aren't you commenting on anything by Jeb Bush?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: There you can see, he's being asked repeatedly to explain himself, and that's unusual for Trump not to take that opportunity, a shockingly quiet Trump there. You know, Poppy, he regularly takes questions from reporters on the campaign trail. So it was kind of unusual to see him walk away there without saying anything, but, you know, never fear, this being Donald Trump, he wasn't done.

A few minutes later, he took to twitter. His first tweet aimed at Bush. He said, "at the debate, you said your brother kept us safe. I wanted to be nice and I did not mention the World Trade Center came down during his watch 9/11." Then he tweeted, "No, Jeb Bush, you're pathetic for saying nothing happened during your brother's term when the World Trade Center was attacked and came down." You know, that last tweet, Poppy, had a kind of schoolyard, "I know you are, but what am I" feel for it, real tit for tat. But it's also worth pointing out that Bush criticized Trump yesterday saying, he had no idea what kind of leader Trump would be because all Trump does is talk about himself, not how he would lead.

Remember, Poppy, it's a twitter feud that's been going on between Trump and Bush for months. Trump's hit Bush on immigration, he's re- tweeted messages calling Bush crazy and calling on him to stop, "speaking Mexican." Bush, of course, speaks Spanish.

[16:10:00]

This is just the latest chapter in this long-running feud. But the fact that he took to twitter instead of answering reporters' questions. It seems to indicate that Trump knows he hit a little bit of a nerve here. You know, 9/11 has been largely off-limits as a political issue, and Trump's criticism of George W. Bush could alienate those very voters that Trump is trying to win.

On Friday, New York Congressman Pete King kind of made this point saying Trump's argument sounded like a Michael Moore talking point, of course, being the very liberal, very outspoken critic of George W. Bush. That's not the kind of criticism Trump wants going into a Republican primary especially as opponents like Bush try to paint him as a New York liberal, not some kind of rock-ribbed conservative.

HARLOW: All right. We'll see what we hear from him on this as we move forward on this. Chris Frates, thank you very much. Political pundits debate it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Donald Trump and Jeb Bush feuding on twitter. Trump is going after Jeb Bush's brother, the former president, reminding people that 9/11 happened, when President Bush was in office.

Jeb Bush has responded, calling Trump's remarks pathetic, and tweeting, "we were attacked and my brother kept us safe." When CNN asked Trump about the remarks last night, he offered a rare, no comment. Let's talk about it with CNN commentator, Ben Ferguson, and Maria Cardona.

Ben is the host of the "Ben Ferguson Show" and Maria is a democratic strategist. Ben, to you first, what do you make of what Donald Trump said in that Bloomberg interview?

BEN FERGUSON, HOST "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": I think it was a really bad move. And I think his silence last night proved that he even realized probably he went too far here. To imply that 9/11 was the fault of George Bush is just flat-out bad for his voting base -

HARLOW: Let's be careful. Let's just be careful with the wording there.

[16:15:02] FERGUSON: I'll say it this way. I feel like he implied it. And I think a lot of other people very much feel like he was implying that it was his fault, that he didn't stop it from happening or that he wasn't paying attention. However you want to describe it, but that's what the controversy is about.

And so, from a Trump perspective here, him being quiet last night may have actually been his best play, because I don't know how on earth you would explain this away. You implied that it was George Bush's fault or that he wasn't paying attention. That is not going to work well with early primary voters. I don't care who you are, even being Donald Trump.

HARLOW: Maria, what is your take? I mean, look, we've heard from him on twitter. I'm sure we'll hear from him in whatever interview he does next about it.

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: And he should certainly continue to be asked. I actually agree with Ben here. He didn't say it outright, but the fact that he kept saying that 9/11 happened under George Bush's watch clearly does imply that he believes that George W. Bush had some fault in it.

And I think the fact that he didn't answer any questions afterward indicates also that he thinks maybe he went a little bit too far. If, in fact, he wasn't meaning to imply it, then he could have clarified it. Those two opportunities that he had, when they asked him about it. So, I think right now, he's rethinking it, and we'll see what he comes up with next.

FERGUSON: And this is where the arrogance factor comes in.

HARLOW: I want to have time to move on to another very important issue, Vice President Joe Biden, had this big call with a labor leader last night. Is he going to jump in? Is he not? We should know in a matter of days, possibly by tomorrow. I want you to listen to what David Axelrod, former adviser to President Obama said about it this morning on "Smerconish."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID AXELROD, FMR. OBAMA ADVISER: Part of the urgency that people felt in trying to nudge him into the race was that the front-runner was weak and getting weaker. I don't think that's true after the debate on Tuesday. Hillary Clinton had a great night. And therefore, the market for the white knight coming in to save the party is no longer there. But that may not be the, you know, the standard by which he's making this decision. You know, he may simply just feel that he would be a better candidate and wants to give it a go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Ben, do you agree? Is the market no longer there after the debate performance that Hillary Clinton pulled off this week?

FERGUSON: I think it depends on how you look at it? If you look at is there any other viable candidate that's going to beat Hillary Clinton, and that's your idea if it's weak or not, then yes, you still have time to get in. I mean, it's very obvious from Bernie Sanders, his appearance the other night, he is going to be the best second place candidate ever in the democratic party. But he defended and bailed out Hillary Clinton when he shots to go after her, he chose not to. That's why he's not going to beat her. So, he may say, all right, no one else on stage is going to come in second, any jump in here, I can challenge her. That maybe enough.

Now, is he going to fill a void, as what we thought early on? I think Hillary Clinton had an unbelievable debate the other night. She is by far the front-runner. No one touched her. So from that perspective, maybe it is a little bit too late for him to get in. But if you put all those other people's votes together, there are still a lot of people in the democratic party that are not happy with Hillary Clinton walking away with this. Not running away, walking away, because no one's challenging her. So he might need to jump in, why not?

HARLOW: Maria, quickly, before I let you go - you said the smart strategy, and you're a supporter of Hillary Clinton, the smart strategy for the Clinton camp, wake up every morning, thinking you're an underdog, regardless of what the polls say.

CARDONA: That's exactly right. I think that's one of the reasons why she had a terrific performance the other night. She is at her best when she's fighting like the underdog, when she is clawing her way to it. When she is, you know, making sure that this is not given to her. And this, I think, is a myth that has started from the very beginning. She never thought this was going to be a coronation. Her campaign never thought this was going to be a coronation.

So when you have Sanders in there. And even with the prospect of Biden jumping in, you have a candidate that is fighting. And she is at her best when she is talking about how she is going to be that fighter for the middle class, how she's going to be that champion. She's more authentic, she's more herself, she's more confident. She is the person that we saw in the debate the other night, when she is acting that way.

HARLOW: Ben and Maria, stay with me. A little bit later, we're going to talk about Ivanka Trump's potential role and Chelsea Clinton's potential role as surrogates in this campaign.

But first, we'll take you inside of that Nevada brothel where former NBA star Lamar Odom had really a crisis that he is now recovering from, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:23:15]

HARLOW: Two-time NBA champion Lamar Odom is reportedly responsive and communicating, four days after he was found unconscious at a Nevada brothel. After waking up from a coma, he apparently greeted people and gave them a thumbs up. On Friday, he was able to say hello to his estranged wife, Khloe Kardashian, who has been by his side in the hospital. We are also learning more about those days before he collapsed at the Love Ranch. The owner of that brothel tells CNN that they want to set the record straight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS HOF, OWNER, LOVE RANCH: I'm not going to let the world tell - say that Lamar was doing a lot of drugs at my place. Because it makes him look bad and he wasn't doing that. It's not any secret that he was at the brothel and the ambulance took him away and they couldn't fit him in the helicopter.

This was all out in the public within a few minutes. So it's my job to protect my business and Lamar's reputation. They know he's in the brothel, that's out there. It's our job to make sure to let the world know that we don't think Lamar was doing a lot of jobs at our place or any at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Meantime, our Randi Kaye got a tour inside that brothel, where the general manager spoke about Odom's weekend there. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Love Ranch in Crystal, Nevada, is about a 90-mile drive from Las Vegas. T.J. Moore is the general manager and was one of the people who tried to save Lamar Odom.

(on camera): This is the bedroom where Lamar Odom would have been staying?

TJ MOORE, GENERAL MANAGER, LOVE RANCH: This is the bedroom where he stayed.

KAYE (voice-over): She took us into the VIP suite where Odom stayed, the owner's suite, reserved for special guests. The rate is at least ten grand per night. The ranch says Odom spent about $75,000 here, before they found him unconscious.

[16:25:08]

(on camera): How did he look to you?

MOORE: He was on his back. He had foam coming out of his mouth and a little blood coming out of his nose. And I got him rolled over on his right side and he did have a bunch of fluid come out of his mouth, but I knew from previous experience that I had to get him on his side.

KAYE: So he would have been - was he on this side of the bed or this -

MOORE: He was on this side of the bed and I was letting him know it was T.J.

KAYE (voice-over): T.J. had driven Odom to the ranch on Saturday. (on camera): What'd you guys talk about?

MOORE: About everything. About the brothel. We talked - he told me about his life. He told me about a lot of the sadness, losing his mom at an early age, being raised by his grandmother. We talked about baseball, because I'm a baseball fan.

KAYE: How was his demeanor?

MOORE: He was relaxed. He was very comfortable. I was really surprised because he was so easy to talk to, it felt like I had known him for a long time.

KAYE (voice-over): T.J. says Odom told her he wanted to have some fun. That fun, she says, included taking sexual enhancement supplements, sold here in this souvenir case.

(on camera): Is this where you would also sell the herbal Viagra?

MOORE: Yes, and they were actually good until 2016 and '17, but I have pulled them from the case.

KAYE (voice-over): It turns out CNN has learned it is neither herbal or Viagra. Back in his VIP suite, Odom picked out the women he wanted.

(on camera): So for most people, you don't do the lineup in the actual suite, but for him, you did the lineup in here.

MOORE: For him, that was his preference.

KAYE: So he requested that?

MOORE: Yes.

KAYE: What, he sat on the couch and the girls -

MOORE: He sat on the couch and then the ladies lined up right here, all the way across in front of him. I introduced the ladies, I said, this is Lamar, ladies, please introduce yourselves.

KAYE (voice-over): T.J. says Odom hung out in his suite with two women he chose, but also in the Love Ranch's bar, where T.J. says he played Youtube videos and talked. And some time after leaving that bar, Lamar Odom collapsed in his room.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Crystal, Nevada.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Up next, Ivanka Trump sat down with me for an exclusive and wide-ranging interview this week. We will hear from her about her father's campaign and talk to her about her good friend, Chelsea Clinton. Then we'll discuss how the two could be very powerful surrogates for their parents' bid for the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:45] HARLOW: Ivanka Trump speaking out for the first time since her father announced his bid for the White House. And some political pundits see her as her father's best asset as a potential surrogate on the campaign trail.

I spoke with Ivanka Trump at length this week at the Fortune Most Powerful Women Summit. The Trump Organization executive vice president Michael Cohen says that that company employs 57 percent men and 43 percent women, but he said on CNN that there are more female executives within the Trump organization than males.

So, I asked Ivanka Trump how we can see more and more women at the top echelons of corporate America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: I think it's incredibly or not and I think companies who aren't prioritizing, ensuring that women are at all levels within the organization with and this disproportion of men versus women and gender and equality, you know, anyone who's thinking in those terms and who's not being very proactive to ensure their company is being thoughtful about the gender mix is simply going to fall behind.

So, I think it will be a self-selecting thing. I think ten years from now, the companies who haven't evolved will not be the companies they are today. And, you know, I think my father recognized this a long time ago. I wouldn't be the person I am today, I would haven't the ambition, the drive, the passion, the commitment to what it is I'm doing, both for the Trump organization and for my own brand if he hadn't encouraged me, emboldened me, given me the confidence that I could do whatever it is that I set my mind to accomplish, if I had the vision, the energy, the passion, and the work ethic to match.

HARLOW: You started Women Who Work. It's an initiative you pushed to empower women at all levels to work and to follow their dreams. But Pew found an increasing amount of American women are staying home from 23 percent in 1999 to 29 percent in 2000 and some of that is, in part, due to rising child care costs.

TRUMP: Yes.

HARLOW: What's your message in this campaign to those women?

TRUMP: Well, so, my campaign is about the fact that women are working at all aspects of their life. So, I really wanted to create a brand that was celebrating the fact that women are multidimensional. That we're all working really hard at architecting the lives that we want to live and lives that are consistent with our personal priorities.

And I do think there's this unfortunate and prevailing depiction of the working women as, you know, wearing with a black pantsuit and being solely focused on her professional role. And that's just not true. And hopefully, I can be a small part of changing the narrative around what it looks like to be a woman who works today.

And that's the purpose of the campaign. It's not to tell people they should work or shouldn't work.

HARLOW: Your father points to you telling him that he has been really misunderstood about his views on women. He has said some things about women that have shocked many people, about Carly Fiorina. He said, "Look at that face, would anyone vote for that?" About Megyn Kelly's questioning of him in the first FOX debate, he said, "There was blood coming out of her wherever."

Ivanka, what was your reaction to that?

TRUMP: Well, I think a lot of the sensationalism around this was orchestrated largely by the media. Look, my father is very blunt. He's very direct. He is not gender specific in his criticism of people and people that he doesn't particularly like or people that he does like, but thinks they're wrong on a particular issue.

So, you know, I don't think that he's gender targeted at all. Like I said, I wouldn't be the person I am today, I wouldn't be a high-level executive within his organization if he felt that way.

So, he's always supported and encouraged women and truthfully, he's proven that, over decades, through his employment practices and through his hiring practices.

HARLOW: What would a President Trump do for women in this country?

TRUMP: He'd be amazing for women in this country. He would be incredible for women in this country.

[16:35:01] And he's starting to articulate his positions.

It's not my place to articulate those for him. I'm not part of the campaign. I'm very busy and he's kept me very busy, working alongside my brothers and running the organization, now that he's taking this step in terms of his efforts to try to make this country great again, as he says.

So, you know, I'll leave policy to him, but I can speak from my vantage point as a child and also from my vantage point as a colleague, and somebody who works for him. He's been an amazing parent. He's given me every opportunity to succeed. He's been loving and supportive.

He's pushed me. He's corrected me. He's disciplined me. And I think, as a parent now myself, I appreciate how hard that is, more than ever before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Another thing we talked about in the interview is the close friendship that Ivanka Trump and Chelsea Clinton have together, despite their parents' political differences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHELSEA CLINTON, HILLARY CLINTON'S DAUGHTER: Ivanka and I talk about everything. I am so grateful she's my friend and I think she's a great woman and I support her, I mean, as I support all my friends.

TRUMP: I have great respect for her. She's been a great friend to me. I've been a great friend to her.

So, you know, the politics of our parents is not relevant to our friendship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And if you look at the polls right now -- well, we could see their parents running against each other in a general.

Let's talk about this with Maria Cardona and Ben Ferguson. They are back.

To you, Ben, let me begin with you first. Which of the two do you think will make a stronger surrogate for their parent and why?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Ivanka. And it's proof just how easily she was able to dismiss and say, I'm not a part of the campaign, but her very next words were, but my father wants to make America great again, which is exactly the slogan of the campaign.

She is very well-polished. She obviously understands how this game works. I think she's going to be a big asset for Donald Trump.

Chelsea Clinton has always been somebody that's always been a little bit more reserved. And that's not -- there's nothing wrong with that, but if I had to pick, one of the two that I would want to stick on stage to make a statement on my behalf in the last days of the campaign, I think Ivanka is going to be able to connect with more people in a bigger way and rally people than Chelsea Clinton is. And it's just an issue of style.

HARLOW: Marie Cardona, these are both daughters of now very wealthy people. The Clintons may not be billionaires like Donald Trump, but very wealthy people, right?

So, they have to hit the trail and connect -- if they do go on the trail, and connect with the average American family, the average American family, which brings in just about $53,000 a year. I wonder who you think does that better? And also, if Chelsea Clinton is helped or hurt by the fact that America already knows her as a first daughter.

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: So, first of all, I want to congratulate you on that interview. It was fantastic. And I think that Ivanka is a huge asset for Donald Trump and he desperately needs her, given all of the misogynistic comments he has made throughout the campaign. In terms of Chelsea Clinton, I think she would have a much easier time in terms of connecting with those Americans, those middle class families that have been the focus of her mother's campaign, and frankly, her mother's 40 years of public service.

Why? Because of the Clinton's history. They were not born with silver spoons in their mouths. They have worked very hard to get to where they are. And they acknowledge that there are people out there who don't have the fighters, who don't have the champs they need in order to give them the same opportunities that they had.

And Hillary talks about this every single day. She talks about how her mother grew up as somebody without a champion and that she thinks about those people and how she wants to wake up every single day in the White House and be that fighter.

FERGUSON: Let's be clear --

CARDONA: I think Chelsea will be very able to connect that message with younger voters, with women, with millennials.

FERGUSON: Here's the thing, though --

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: The diversity of this country, that is the reality of America.

FERGUSON: Hillary Clinton, yes, grew up a certain way. Chelsea Clinton grew up on Air Force One. It's not her fault. But to imply that she's going to be able to go out there and talk about the average person when you're in a limo to Air Force One to the White House for eight years, that's going to be a pretty tough sell.

CARDONA: It's about values and how she grew up.

FERGUSON: She did grow up with a silver spoon, though. She grew up with a silver spoon the same way Ivanka did.

CARDONA: But she also grew up with the values, those middle class values that her parents taught her. It's very different than the way Trump grew up.

FERGUSON: I can tell you one thing. Both these women, incredibly accomplished in their own right, professionally, I think, outside of their parents than they are both --

CARDONA: No question about that.

HARLOW: And they both have their own identity outside of their parents.

We'll be watching very closely, I think we'll see a little bit more of them on the trail, but I don't know how much. We'll watch.

All right. Maria Cardona, Ben Ferguson, thank you so much.

CARDONA: Thanks, Poppy.

FERGUSON: Thanks, Poppy. HARLOW: Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:39] HARLOW: President Obama this week abandoned his plan to withdraw all U.S. troops from Afghanistan by the end of his presidency, outside of a thousand that would remain at the embassy. He announced Thursday that 9,800 U.S. troops will remain in the country to fight the Taliban and be drawn down to some 5,500 by the time he leaves office in 2017, but that new plan by the president is already drawing some sharp criticism for some.

With me now from Washington, Michael Pregent. He's a former civilian intelligence adviser to General David Petraeus. Thank you for being here.

MICHAEL PREGENT, FORMER INTELLIGENCE ADVISER TO GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

HARLOW: Let's take a listen at what senator and Republican presidential candidate Lindsey Graham said about this move this week on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm telling you, he's picked a number that's not militarily sound. He intentionally ignored all military advice to keep a residual force in Iraq. We paid a price and that 5,500 number is not a militarily sound number.

I think he is conflicted here. He understands the security environment's deteriorating. He's also trying to keep a campaign promise of ending wars and split the baby, so to speak, and that's the worst possible outcome.

You're putting our soldiers at risk. You don't have enough at 5,500 to do a counterterrorism mission that protects our homeland and have the reach you need in Afghanistan. I think it's the worst of all decisions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He also called it basically called splitting the baby.

[16:45:00] But White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest pushed back. He said the highest recommendation that came to the president from the Pentagon is what he went with.

What do you think?

PREGENT: Well, the recommendation was actually closer to 10,000. So, for every 500 Afghan troops you're training, you need about 20 American advisers. And to protect those 20 American advisers, you need about 100 Americans to come to their aid when they're in a situation that requires helping the Afghan forces fight or also helping protect Americans when they're in a fight. So, you're looking at 120 to every 500 Afghan troops, so this number

is really low. And that's one of the biggest problems.

HARLOW: And also when you look at the policy here, just overall, look, war is many things, but it is never simple. And if you look at the zigzags, if you will, by President Obama on troop levels in Afghanistan, his decision making sort of incrementally, does that at all diminish public trust in his policy in the region?

PREGENT: It does, especially when we announce a withdrawal date. We have a very patient enemy, an enemy in the Taliban that tells the Pashtun population that no matter how many of you join the Afghan national army, we will remain after the Americans leave.

There's this loyalty. We don't have loyalty with the Afghan troops, especially the Pashtun ones we're training, because we don't spend enough time with them. They know we're leaving at some point. And loyalty is based on proximity and frequency.

And we go back to bases, we don't stay out there with them. The Taliban are always there. That's the biggest problem.

HARLOW: Marco Rubio did say he agreed with his decision to ramp up forces, but he also said that he does not agree with President Obama's decision to prematurely announce a further drawdown before he leaves office. He went on to say, our presence in Afghanistan should be dictated by battlefield conditions.

Do you agree that future drawdowns should not be announced ahead of time like the president did before, that he should just be announced sort of a week before they happen, and is that feasible?

PREGENT: They should be event driven. That's the biggest problem. We've been doing this now for almost 15 years and we announce a surge and then we announce when it's going to end. We announce troop withdrawals and we announce that we're actually going to keep people in Afghanistan, past the 2017 or 2016 withdrawal date.

We don't want to telegraph to the enemy what we're doing, and we have a tendency to do that, to inform a domestic audience. And when -- it doesn't resonate well in Afghanistan, especially with the forces we're trying to train. That's a big problem.

HARLOW: Before I let you go, look, you were the intelligence adviser to General David Petraeus --

PREGENT: Doesn't mean he listened to me.

HARLOW: It's been such a long war and it's cost so many American lives and so much heartbreak, at the same time, it has accomplished something. So, looking at it, what do you think Afghanistan will look like five years from now?

PREGENT: The biggest problem with trying to disengage from wars prematurely is you end up prolonging them. We have trained an Uzbek and Tajik force. Those areas will be secured. The problem is, we have not created an atmosphere where the military wants to control all of Afghanistan.

This military is largely Uzbek and Tajik, and they're going to look to protect Uzbek and Tajik areas. Just like in Iraq, the Shia military will protect Shia areas. It's just the way this works, unfortunately when you try to train a national force that isn't one.

HARLOW: Michael Pregent, thank you very much.

PREGENT: Thank you.

HARLOW: Straight ahead, what we're learning about the brutal beating of brothers, one dead now, inside a New York church, next.

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[16:52:55] HARLOW: Bizarre details are emerging in the death of a teenager at a church in upstate New York. Police are investigating the assault. They say that 19-year-old Lucas Leonard was beaten so severely that emergency doctors thought he'd been shot. He died. His 17-year-old brother remains in serious condition in the hospital right now. Their parents are facing manslaughter charges.

CNN's Jason Carroll has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bruce and Deborah Leonard (ph) did not testify during the preliminary hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charges are manslaughter in the first degree.

CARROLL: Instead, they sat and listened to damaging testimony about what allegedly happened in that church counseling session. In the end, their 19-year-old son, Lucas, was dead. Their 17-year-old son Christopher left in serious condition.

Daniel Irwin, a deacon at the word of life Christian church told the court, he saw Bruce Leonard strike both of the boys inside the church's sanctuary. He said Leonard hit his son, Lucas, several times. I heard the sound of a strike, stop, then it started again. Irwin also told the court, he saw Lucas was bleeding from his leg, moaning, and rolling back and forth on the floor. Irwin then said he also saw Leonard strike his younger son, Christopher, five or six times, with something that looked like a belt. He recalled the beating went on for 14 hours, starting around 8:00, Sunday night, and lasting until 10:00 a.m. the next morning.

When asked why the beating finally stopped, Irwin said, because Luke was dead at that point. He said several church members, including Leonard's own brother, Christopher, and his father, tried performing CPR, but it was too late.

(on camera): Would you like to elaborate a little bit more about what happened inside and tell us the about your experience?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I have no comment. CARROLL: Outside court, Irwin would not comment about his testimony,

nothing about the motive for the beating, nor about allegations that the counseling session was ordered because Leonard wanted to leave the church.

The Leonards are facing manslaughter charges in the death of their son. Four others, including the boy's sister, Sarah, are facing assault charges. All have pled not guilty.

[16:55:01] Police say they have not concluded why the session turned violent. Bruce Leonard allegedly told investigators his sons may have molested children who belonged to the church.

(on camera): But police say there is no indication of that whatsoever. They say seven children here from the church were taken to protective custody. They were interviewed, they were examined and police say there is no indication any of them were sexually assaulted.

CHIEF MICHAEL INSERRA, NEW HARTFORD POLICE: The deceased and his brother are victims in this horrible crime. And I want to put out there, again, there is no evidence that these brothers did anything. They are, at this point, true victims.

CARROLL: Deborah Leonard's attorney believes his client is also a victim, saying Deborah did not have the physical strength to beat her sons. Deborah Leonard claims she only took part in the beginning, but that other church members held the brothers down while the beating took place.

SCOTT MCNAMARA, ONEIDA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I have indicated before and I will continue to indicate that we are looking at other charges and if other people should be charged, we will present that evidence to a grand jury.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Wow. Jason Carroll with me now.

CARROLL: A tough story.

HARLOW: These are their children!

CARROLL: It really is a tough story, especially when you consider the length and the severity of the beating that took place here. And I think what's interesting is, what you heard the D.A. say there. That is about others possibly being implicated with this deadly beating, and, you know, that's because, as we sat there in court, at one point, one of the investigators talked about Deborah Leonard.

And she apparently told one of the investigators that there were others, not named yet, others, including Daniel Irwin, who you saw there in that piece there, who I tried to question, she says that Irwin was one of those people who not just witnessed it, but also took part in the beating as well. And when we asked the D.A. about that, he would not comment. He would simply say that Irwin is continuing to cooperate with their investigation. HARLOW: And now you have one dead 19-year-old and a 17-year-old

fighting for their life.

CARROLL: That is correct.

HARLOW: Jason Carroll, thank you. As always, more with Jason in the next hour.

Quick break and we're back at the top of the hour.

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