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Trump's New Jab; Drug Lord Slips Away; Bus Station Attack. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired October 19, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: For our viewers in North America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

The race for the Republican presidential nomination has taken a detour back to the year 2001. And once again it is Donald Trump who is dictating the discussion. Trump and Jeb Bush, they are trading claims about the 9/11 terrorist attacks and whether then President George W. Bush did or did not keep the country safe as his brother Jeb Bush often says. Here is Trump just a couple days ago making his case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I would have been must different, I must tell you. Somebody says, well, it wouldn't have been any different. Well, it would have been. I am extremely, extremely tough on illegal immigration. I'm extremely tough on people coming into this country. I believe that if I were running things, I doubt those families would have - I doubt that those people would have been in the country. So there is a good chance that those people would not have been in our country. With that being said, I'm not blaming George Bush, but I don't want Jeb Bush to say, my bother kept us safe because September 11th was one of the worst days in the history of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Jeb Bush, meantime, is having none of that - none of that argument. Here he is with our own Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My brother responded to a crisis and he did it as you would hope a president would do. He united the country, he organized our country and he kept us safe. And there's no denying that. The great majority of Americans believe that. And I don't know why he keeps bringing this up. It's - it doesn't show that he's a serious person as it relates to being commander-in-chief and being the architect of a foreign policy.

The spectrum of foreign policy, Mr. Trump talks about things that - as though he's still on "The Apprentice." I mean literally talking about Syria saying, ISIS should take out Assad, then Russia should take out ISIS, as though it was some kind of board game and not a serious approach is just - this is just another example of the lack of seriousness and this is a serious time. We're under - we're under grave threats again. And I think we need a president with a steady hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to Dana Bash now, our chief political correspondent. And here's my question, number one, and we just heard Jeb Bush say almost as an aside, I don't know why he keeps bringing this up. So let me - let me ask you that very question. What do you think Donald Trump has to gain politically by going there and dredging up 9/11 and intelligence and George W. Bush?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you remember back a month ago at CNN's presidential debate, this was a moment for Jeb Bush when he talked about the fact it was sort of - almost - he thought he was - clearly thought he was given a political gift when he was able to talk about how his brother kept us safe. That clearly has sort of gotten under the skin of Donald Trump and he thinks that this could be a potential Achilles heel. Whether he's right or not, you know, we'll see.

But as we were even coming on the air, Brooke, Donald Trump tweeted something else. It's a "New York Times" story from back in 2012 talking about the fact, reminding people of the fact that President George W. Bush got in his presidential daily brief a few months before 9/11 a warning that al Qaeda is a threat and could potentially attack the U.S. So he is not letting up on this, Donald Trump. He is continuing to take a whack at Jeb Bush.

And, you know, look, the Bush campaign, they feel very comfortable in this. They almost feel like they have a political gift. They've been sending out fundraising requests using Trump's attacks saying, if you think my brother kept us safe, please send us $5. So this is not going away any time soon. And it's kind of hard to believe that of all of the national security incidents that we would be re-litigating in 2015, 9/11 is happening.

BALDWIN: Right. Right. I have so much more on this. I have Peter Beinart standing by with that.

But first, you have some news on Joe Biden.

BASH: Well, I've been talking to some sources, one of whom said that - this source is familiar with these conversations - that Biden associates are reaching out to even set up interviews with potential Biden campaign staffers. So this is kind of another wrinkle, another layer in the kind of preparation that people in and around Joe Biden are making for what, you know, a lot of sources who I'm talking to think really looks and smells and tastes like a presidential run, but they're not ready to say it until the man himself says it. And we'll wait and see when and if that happens. But we're certainly getting indications that it should happen soon.

And I will tell you that it's very clear that the Hillary campaign, they want it to happen soon. They are trying to sort of push him very hard to make a decision. They're doing it publicly and privately.

BALDWIN: We'll ask Karen Finney (ph) about that from the Hillary Clinton campaign. She'll be on in a matter of minutes.

Dana Bash, thank you very much.

[14:05:00] BASH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: But let's go back to that debate with CNN political commentator Peter Beinart. He is also contributing editor for "The Atlantic" and "The National Journal."

So good to see you back here, sir.

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.

BALDWIN: You know, Dana's point about, my goodness, who would have thought in 2015 they'd be re-litigating what happened on 9/11. Do you think there is any grain of truth in Donald Trump's argument?

BEINART: Yes, I do, actually, more than a little grain of truth. Obviously we don't know whether George W. Bush could have stopped the attacks, but I don't think that's the right question. The question is, given what he knew at the time, before the attack, did he do everything he could have?

And if you listen to his own former counterterrorism advisers, they say no. Richard Clark, for instance, who was the counterterrorism chief at the National Security Council, said that he - in his book, that he was so despondent by the summer of 2011 because he was trying - 2001, sorry, he was trying to raise alarms about this and he wasn't getting anywhere, that he asked to be reassigned. We also know from "The New York Times" that the counterterrorism advisers at the CIA considered asking to be reassigned because their pleas about the potential threat were not being heard. So, yes, there's a real story here.

BALDWIN: Fast forward to the Republican debate in Simi Valley at the Reagan Presidential Library. This is what Dana just alluded to, this moment, this was part of an exchange between Donald Trump and Jeb Bush. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your brother's administration gave us Barack Obama because it was such a disaster those last three months that Abraham Lincoln couldn't have been elected.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what, as it relates to my brother, there's one thing I know for sure, he kept us safe. I don't know if you remember, Donald - do you remember the - the ruble? Do you remember the firefighter with his arm around him? He sent a clear signal that the United States would be strong and fight Islamic terrorism and he did keep us safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So I was right off that stage. I mean that was a huge, huge applause that he got. Let's remind everyone, though, the 9/11 Commission concluded the 9/11 attacks were a shock but should not have come as a surprise. Do you think up there on that podium, flanked by, you know, Air Force One at the Reagan Library, he - Jeb Bush should have been more nuanced, more specific? My brother kept us safe after 9/11. Anything like that?

BEINART: Right, on its face it makes no sense. He's like, he kept us safe starting on September 12, 2001, after the greatest terrorist attack in United States history. If you want to give him credit for the fact that there wasn't another terrorist attack afterwards, and there were many, multiple factors, then he also deserves some responsibility for the fact that there was, especially given the fact that people from his own administration have said -- Richard Clark said in January, I need a cabinet level meeting on my plan to fight al Qaeda. He didn't get one until September of 2001.

So I don't think it makes - if Jeb Bush really wants to re-litigate this, I think he's going to find actually that despite his, you know, his loyalty to his family, which is admirable, there's a lot of evidence on the other side.

BALDWIN: Also, there is a piece of this, which probably fits into your thesis, that Trump is saying, you know, regarding his own immigration policies, right, being so tough on, thinking of the men who - you know, the terrorists who, you know, flew the planes into the towers and, illegally or not, that Trump would have kept him out of the United States. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jeb Bush wrote an entire book on immigration and even pointed out leaky immigration policies around 9/11.

BEINART: Right. I mean we don't know what Trump would have done, but we do know is that there were a bunch of these hijackers who were in the United States.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BEINART: One of them, Zacarias Moussaoui -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BEINART: Was actually arrested in Minnesota -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BEINART: By a flight instructor, but the FBI was not able to search his laptop or his apartment because they didn't get approval. Now if, from the very top of the Bush administration, there had been the demands that this be priority number one, maybe some of that stuff would have shaken out differently. We don't know.

But I don't think this is a great debate for Jeb Bush to be having. First of all, he should be talking about his own record. And, secondly - BALDWIN: Not talking about his brother.

BEINART: And, secondly, although his brother is popular in the Republican Party -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BEINART: The more people look into this, the more they will see that Trump actually has a point. And I'm not a Trump fan, but on this -

BALDWIN: Do you think, in the end, that this hurts Jeb Bush?

BEINART: Yes, it does hurt Jeb Bush. First of all, he doesn't have the merits, the argument - the evidence is not on his side. But, secondly, it reminds him that he would be the third Bush president in an environment where Americans, and even Republicans, want something new badly. He's trying to suggest that he's - he's never been to Washington, he's never worked in Washington, he's a disrupter. This reminds people that, in fact, he comes from the biggest political dynasty that we have in the Republican Party. That's not what Republicans want right now.

BALDWIN: He's got a new attack ad out. We'll see if it is effective. We'll see how he's doing in the polls and how Donald Trump has been doing in the polls as well.

Peter Beinart, always wonderful to have you on.

BEINART: Thank you. My pleasure.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much.

BEINART: Thanks.

BALDWIN: And you will hear from the Republican frontrunner himself, Donald Trump, will be on CNN's "New Day" tomorrow morning at 6:00 Eastern.

Next, one of the most wanted fugitives on the planet might have just slipped away, again. This time it involved a showdown involving bullets, flames and a four wheeler.

And this, a six-year-old boy shoots and kills his little brother during a game of cops and robbers. Their dad, now behind bars. Hear why.

[14:10:05] And Eddie Murphy doing his first stand-up act in 28 years. One of his targets, Bill Cosby. We'll speak live with his former co- star, Joe Piscopo, who was with him on such an exciting night at the Kennedy Center.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

With bullets raining down on his hideaway, the fugitive Mexican drug lord, better known as El Chapo, managed to slip away from law enforcement again. This time he evaded the military. New video shows charred vehicles littering the landscape where this whole thing unfolded. Terrified villagers telling these crazy stories of running for cover as the Mexican military zeroed in on one of the most wanted men in both Mexico and the United States. And in spite of the intensity of this recent battle, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman remains at large. But authorities say he suffered face and leg injuries, not from actual direct confrontation with the military, but in the rush to get away.

[14:15:18] BALDWIN: Listen, you know the story, El Chapo pulled off a daring escape from a Mexican prison back in July through that intricate tunnel system dug directly into his prison cell. It was even equipped with a waiting motorcycle to help speed up his escape.

So, I have CNN law enforcement analyst Art Roderick with me. He is also the former assistant director of the U.S. Marshal Service.

Art Roderick, can you believe this? I can't believe we're talking about this again. I mean - and one of my questions obviously is, can we even, you know, trust all the information coming out of the Mexican government on this, but really my first question is, why would El Chapo return to his home turf?

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think at this point, since he is the most wanted man in the world, he's got very few locations that he can go to. In fact, if he goes to another country, there's a very good possibility that the U.S. could pick him up and have him extradited back to the U.S. from that third country. So I think we're going to keep talking about this. obviously I had heard about 10 days ago that there was another shootout involving El Chapo. Now this could be the same one, but, you know, you talk about it in terms of a law enforcement operation. This is more a military operation because you've got the Mexican marines going against the El Chapo organization. So it's more of a military operation as opposed to a law enforcement operation.

BALDWIN: OK, so on that point, let me - let's dig a little deeper because if this is a military operation, they had intelligence. They got all the way to this cabin where he apparently was. He was injured. He hops on a four-wheeler and away he goes. And they got so close they could even describe his, you know, injuries on his face and his legs.

RODERICK: Yes, I think this is a very good indication. Obviously the government of Mexico is putting a lot of pressure on this organization and, you know, you showed that map earlier of all the towns that they had hit during this particular operation. I mean I think it's a good indication they're getting very close to picking him up. It's not unusual. Even here in the states, you know, I've done fugitive case where I've been like 10 minutes too late to a location and the individual has got away. Sooner or later, his luck is going to run out and I think if -

BALDWIN: But how -

RODERICK: Go ahead, Brooke. BALDWIN: But, Art, how does he get away? I mean I have this whole thing playing out, of course, just only in my head, but a rain of bullets and he's in this four-wheeler and he gets as far as he does and it's been days and nothing.

RODERICK: Yes, well, I mean, that's - you know, they're not reporting anything at this point, which means they could be getting very close to him. I think it's - it's unusual that they're letting this much information out. And I think the reason why they're putting this information out at this point is to show - reassure the Mexican people that they're trying to do something, number one, and also, number two, I think to reassure the world that they're actively pursuing this individual.

BALDWIN: How skeptical, though, Art, are you of all the - you know, the information and the details coming out from Mexico?

RODERICK: Yes, you have to be skeptical. I think you've got to take it with a grain of salt. But, you know, in this particular instance, I think where there's smoke, there's fire, and they probably are very close to him. I mean, obviously, the escape itself was a huge embarrassment to the government of Mexico. And if there is a silver lining here, as you recall, just a few weeks ago, two to three weeks ago on October 2nd, we ended up getting 13 expedited out of the country. And I think that obviously goes back to the - to the embarrassment of the escape itself that occurred on July 11th.

BALDWIN: We'll see. Art Roderick, thank you.

RODERICK: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, an entire society on edge after a new terror attack on a bus station in Israel. Now new video shows what happens in those moments after. We'll take you live to Jerusalem for that.

Plus, a six-year-old boy shoots and kills his three-year-old brother during a game of cops and robbers. Their father is now charged. Hear what we've just found out about his past and the gun.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:20] BALDWIN: Anger and panic reaching a boiling point in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. We now have just shocking cell phone video of a brazen shooting at an Israeli bus station. An innocent bystander, mistaken for a gunman chased down, beaten, killed. Police say the actual gunman shot and killed a 17-year-old Israeli soldier, took that soldier's rifle and used it to wound 10 others in a bloody massacre. That gunman was shot to death by police.

Let's go live to Jerusalem to my colleague Oren Liebermann.

Can you just tell me about what happened? Walk us through this horrendous video.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, two terrible stories happening in that central bus station just moments apart. This is in the southern Israeli city of Beersheba. A city that up until now had been isolated from the attacks and the violence we have seen here in Jerusalem and mostly in the West Bank that have spread to some of Israel. But police say an Arab Bedouin attacker went into the central bus station in Beersheba, shot an Israeli soldier at point-blank range killing him, then took his M-16, went into the bus station and opened fire, just spraying fire around the bus station. A terrible scene there. We've seen shattered windows, trails of blood from inside the bus station. Police say they then shot and killed the attacker.

But the story doesn't end there. And I have to warning you, the video you're about to see is quite graphic. Police say a security guard mistook another man, who happened to be an African migrant from Eritrean, for a second attacker. Police say that security guard shot the attacker in the leg. But then a crowd surrounds that - that, I'm sorry, attacker was the wrong word there. The Eritrean migrant, surrounding him, kicking him, beating him, yelling at him. Police say that man who was an innocent bystander then died at the hospital. Police now investigating who was in that crowd kicking and beating that bystander, trying to find out who was involved in this.

[14:25:11] So two terrible stories here, one, the attack itself killing one Israeli soldier and sending nearly a dozen to the hospital, and, second, the death of that innocent bystander, an African migrant.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Oren Liebermann, thank you so much, in Jerusalem tonight.

Next, just an incredibly tragic story out of Chicago. This six-year- old little boy shoots and kills his three-year-old brother, alleged -- with this illegally purchased gun inside of his own home. The boy's father is now facing charges.

Plus, we just reported that associates of Joe Biden are now setting up interviews for campaign staffers. This as a new CNN poll shows some interesting news for the vice president. We'll speak live with the Hillary Clinton campaign about what they're doing to prepare for a possible run.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:05] BALDWIN: Will he or won't he? We will know soon enough. Vice President Joe Biden appears to be that much closer to making a decision as to whether he will run for president.