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'Goodfellas' Trial; El Chapo Escapes Again; Trump vs Bush. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 19, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDDIE MURPHY, ACTOR (singing): You are white.

JOE PISCOPO, COMEDIAN (singing): You are black. And who cares?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I had to end on that.

Joe Piscopo, you are seriously the best for calling in. I can't imagine that you got any sleep whatsoever last night. I appreciate it so much.

PISCOPO: So great, Brooke. Talk to you again. See you in person, hopefully.

BALDWIN: Good deal. Good deal.

All right, let's roll on, top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Beginning with Donald Trump. Donald Trump has given new life to an old debate and launched a new feud with Jeb Bush. The two Republican hopefuls back and fourth now over whether George W. Bush kept America safe, as Jeb Bush says, or Donald Trump's argument that, say what you will, the Twin Towers came down on George Bush's watch.

Let's talk about this with Jake Tapper, who a pretty incredible "STATE OF THE UNION" show just in terms of all these guests you had on, Tapper.

So, first of all, congrats on all of that. Secondly, when you talked to Jeb Bush on the show yesterday morning, you asked a fantastic question, essentially asking how do you respond to critics who ask if your brother and his administration bear no responsibility, responsibility at all for 9/11 and then how do you make that jump that President Obama and Secretary Clinton are responsible for what happened in Benghazi? Here is Jeb Bush's answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I -- it's -- the question on then Benghazi, which is -- hopefully we'll now finally get the truth to, is, was that -- was the -- was the place secure? They had a responsibility, the Department of State, to have proper security.

There were calls for security. It looks like they didn't get it. And how was the response in the aftermath of the attack? Was there a chance that these four American lives could have been saved? That's what the investigation is about. It's not a political issue. It's not about the broad policy issue, is, were we doing the job of protecting our embassies and our consulates, and during the period, those hours after the attacks started, could they have been saved?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What's your reaction to that answer?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, that's a fair response. I went on to say that that is exactly what critics say, is that he's basically saying that there are all these serious questions to ask about Benghazi, and there are.

But there aren't when it comes to his brother's administration and 9/11. What's been interesting is, today, I have seen some conservative pundits defending Jeb Bush on this question, and taking issue with my question. And what's interesting about it is, it's the first time I have seen conservative pundits this season defending Jeb Bush, and in a way even siding against Donald Trump, who is still out there again this afternoon.

He just tweeted a link to a "New York Times" op-ed talking about the Bush administration, the George W. Bush administration, and that presidential daily briefing from 2001, "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within the U.S.," still raising these questions. It's interesting. It does seem to have gotten conservative pundits on Jeb's side, if fleetingly.

BALDWIN: OK, so, fleetingly, but my bigger overarching question then would be, you think of Donald Trump, in the last, what, two months, he's attacked George Bush, he took on John McCain, FOX News. He lobs these attacks 140 characters or less on Twitter, and still when you look at the polls, he's far and away number one.

Why do you think this hasn't affected him yet?

TAPPER: Well, the people attacking Trump have yet to find a way to undermine what this 25 to 35 percent of the Republican base find so appealing about him. And those things are that he speaks his mind, that he's blunt, that he has this very conservative position on immigration, that he's an outsider in a field of so many insiders with a couple exceptions.

And I think it's probably likely that barring some major revelation, Trump is going to continue to be the front-runner, at least until some of the establishment candidates drop out and there's a little bit more consolidation. There is still a lot of animus towards Trump among Republican voters who aren't supporting him, but that vote is so split among so many different candidates that it's tough to see right now how he does not end up winning the nomination.

BALDWIN: On the flip side, with regard to Jeb Bush, I know, in the past, for the most part, he's brushed off Trump's attacks, but not anymore. Over the weekend, there's this new TV ad that his camp released that mocks Trump as a celebrity, questions his ability to control the nation's nuclear arsenal. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: What do you talk to for military advice right now?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I watch your shows. I really see a lot of great -- when you watch your show and of all the other shows...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has said publicly that he watches cable news and that's one of the ways that he bones up on our national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:05:08]

BALDWIN: Looking ahead, how effective do you think this will be?

TAPPER: I don't know that that's going to be effective. First of all, it's a Web ad, not like some sort of major media market buy. Second of all, it's Trump against the establishment, whether it's FOX News or others in the media criticizing.

You saw -- doesn't have deep thinking on foreign policy from "The Washington Post." Trump's fans don't care what the punditocracy thinks about Donald Trump. But one other thing, if I could, Brooke.

What Jeb Bush is doing right now, while it might be bringing some support to him, at least rhetorical support, from the likes of Rush Limbaugh and other conservative media figures, it's still doing something that I think Trump wanted to achieve, which is, it is tying Jeb Bush to the past, to his brother's administration, to the establishment.

And elections are about the future and they are about outsiders, especially this election. Even if Jeb Bush ends up winning this debate on merits, and I don't know that he will, he will have been tied even further to yesterday and not tomorrow.

BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. It's an important distinction to make. Jake Tapper, thank you, my friend. We will see you at the top of the hour on "THE LEAD."

TAPPER: Sounds great. Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And make sure to tune in when Jake will be interviewing Rand Paul, Senator Paul, who will have his chance to weigh in on this back and forth between Jeb Bush and Donald Trump. Also, tomorrow morning, Donald Trump himself will be on "NEW DAY" at 6:00 a.m. Eastern here on CNN. So, don't miss either of those. Just into CNN, the Department of Homeland Security confirming that

Donald Trump and Ben Carson campaigns, that they have now officially requested Secret Service protection.

CNN law enforcement analyst Arthur Roderick joins me now on the phone.

What is the likelihood? Yes, they both draw pretty incredible crowds. The both of them are. What's the likelihood that their requests will be granted?

ARTHUR RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think probably both cases that it probably will be granted.

The Secret Service doesn't make the determination as to who gets protection or who doesn't get protection. Basically, that's done by a separate committee. And the Secret Service are mainly the operators. They are the ones that will do the protection.

But I think you would be surprised if you go back and you look over the history of the campaigns, some of the people that have got protection, number one, Jesse Jackson back when he ran or was a contender, President Obama received the protection early on in his campaign.

So it's not an unusual request. I think in the eyes of the public, basically, it kind of legitimizes the candidate and their campaign.

BALDWIN: All right, we will follow up and see if and when those requests are granted. Art Roderick, thank you.

Let's move on, breaking news here, CNN has just spoken with a hacker who alleged he broke into the personal e-mails of two people who are critical leaders in the overseeing of the nation's security, CIA Chief John Brennan and the secretary of Department of Homeland Security, Jeh Johnson.

Let's go straight to Evan Perez, our justice correspondent, with more on that.

Also with me, ethical consultant and security consultant David Kennedy.

So, Evan, first to you on your reporting. What can you tell us?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this person who is purporting to be the hacker, Brooke, was having an exchange with Wes Bruer, a producer here in Washington.

And he described some of his motivations. He said he wanted to embarrass and shame these top officials. He talked about one of his motivations being protesting against U.S. policies with regard to the Middle East, Palestine in particular, and that he also threatened that he has additional information that he plans to release.

He claims that he's been able to get into John Brennan's AOL account. This is something that the FBI and the Secret Service are now investigating. This AOL account believed to belong -- associated with John Brennan included his SF-86 forms, which is the form that he filled out prior to returning to government service, which included a lot of very personal data.

The government acquires all this before they give you a classified security clearance. And so that's what he claims he has, in addition to additional information about other CIA personnel that apparently he believes was in this account.

With regard to Jeh Johnson, it was his Comcast account. And, as you know, Comcast, you always get an additional e-mail. A lot of people don't use it. This is the information that he was able to get. It doesn't appear to be any classified information really in either of these cases. But it is definitely embarrassing and it is personal information and it's now something that's under investigation.

BALDWIN: So, now knowing all of that, David, the question to you is what sort of vulnerabilities does all of Evan's reporting highlight for you?

[15:10:02]

DAVID KENNEDY, FOUNDER, TRUSTEDSEC: Well, if you look at it, if you're part of the U.S. government or you're somebody of high stature, you're definitely a target when it comes to hackers.

And most the time, our personal e-mails are much less secure. I mean, from that Brennan one, you were able to -- the hackers were actually able to get access to other different systems because they probably shared the same password among multiple accounts.

So, it just shows you the vulnerabilities that we have personally, that if we work for the government, and we do things in kind of the spotlight, that we better make sure that our security and our personal side definitely matches that of what it would be on the corporate side.

BALDWIN: David, if you are targeting the head of the CIA, sure, I can imagine at first glance, it's like a gold mine of information if you can get in. But at the same time, it's the head of the CIA. What are you thinking? You're going to get caught.

KENNEDY: Well, you would think so, but it's actually really difficult to track hackers, especially if they do it right. To actually find where they came from and who actually hacked it, it's a very, very difficult process. It takes a lot of resources, manpower and money.

So, if they hit a certain threshold, that -- hacking maybe the director of the CIA may hit a certain threshold to where they actually go after this hacker, but in most cases, it's very, very difficult to find these folks. And they could be originating from anywhere. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're in the United States. Now you have to start working with different law enforcement and tracking computers and going through different areas. It's a pretty difficult task.

If they did the right thing, they might not be -- get caught.

BALDWIN: Evan Perez and David Kennedy, thank you both.

KENNEDY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Up next -- you got it -- one of the most wanted fugitives on the planet may have slipped away after a showdown involving bullets, flames and a four-wheeler, El Chapo. That's coming up.

Also, the infamous mob heist from the movie "Goodfellas" now the focus of a trial in New York. Hear what happened in court involving one of America's most infamous gangsters.

And who is the better Bernie Sanders, Larry David or Bernie Sanders? We will talk about whether "SNL" impersonations help or hurt campaigns and what Sanders is saying about his underwear.

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[15:16:21]

BALDWIN: This is CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Once again, the fugitive drug lord known as El Chapo has managed to evade capture, or, more appropriately, recapture. Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman escaped this latest attempt to nab him and what appears to be a vicious shoot-out in the mountains of Western Mexico.

You had these terrified villagers telling these stories of bullets raining down from helicopters, charred vehicles, littering the landscape, yet El Chapo remains at large. You remember El Chapo. He's the drug kingpin who escaped from a Mexican prison back in July through all the intricate tunneling dug directly to his prison cell.

The pictures you're looking at right here come to us from Daphne Lemelin. She's a reporter with AFP. She was the first international reporter on the ground, on the scene after the shoot-out. She's joining me now from Cosala, Mexico.

So, Daphne, I cannot imagine. Can you just start from the beginning? What did you see? What did these local villagers tell you about what they saw?

DAPHNE LEMELIN, AFPTV: We arrived on Saturday in (INAUDIBLE) then moved right away to Cosala, near a city from the mountains where the operations from the marines is taking place to hunt and drag in El Chapo.

And we met with several locals that were telling similar stories of October 6 there were helicopters from what they say is the marines started shooting at their houses and their cars in all the ranches in a really isolated area in the mountains of Durango state.

And so we spoke with them. They were all afraid because they were saying, what is the government thinking, shooting at innocent people? And they said it's also the marines. And the marines said they were responding to an attack and looking for someone in the mountains.

So wanting to verify that I would resolve what really happened, we (INAUDIBLE) up in the mountains, really in -- really deep down in Durango state. And it's a track you can only access by four-by-four, a really bumpy, difficult access road.

And we reached several ranches, where we could by ourselves see many impacts of bullet holes in pickup trucks and in the roofs of the houses that, for example, in (INAUDIBLE) bedroom. And then we decided to head out a little more further to the mountains. And that's where we reached (INAUDIBLE) ranch that is called (INAUDIBLE) and there was tree trunks blocking the road. And we saw (INAUDIBLE) that were shooting (INAUDIBLE) were shooting at -- "Get out of the car. Get out of the car."

(INAUDIBLE) got out of the car and we showed our...

BALDWIN: OK, Daphne, I'm going to have to interrupt you, because it's not the best connection. But, by the looks of it, it looks like a war zone, and yet he still eluded military.

Daphne Lemelin in the remote area of Western Mexico, thank you so much.

Next, nearly four decades after one of the most infamous heists in American history, an 80-year-old alleged mobster gets his day in court -- details on the so-called "Goodfellas" trial ahead.

And Weight Watchers, their stock is soaring after you know who buys a massive stake in the company, Oprah -- a look at whether the famous new board member can turn around the struggling weight loss company.

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[15:24:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "GOODFELLAS")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: And nobody knows for sure just how much was taken in the daring pre-dawn raid at the Lufthansa cargo terminal at Kennedy Airport. The FBI says $2 million. Port Authority police say $4 million dollars. The city cops say five.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A scene from the classic mafia film "Goodfellas."

Well, the infamous mob heist that inspired that blockbuster is playing out in reality in courts right now, a trial 37 years in the making. Notorious gangster Vincent Asaro, who is now 80 years of age, is now facing charges that he helped plan one of the biggest cash heists in American history.

So I have got Jean Casarez here today. She's on this one for us today.

Remind us. This was a $6 million heist at JFK.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the real thing right now, the trial.

Back in 1978, masked gunmen forged on into the air cargo terminal building at JFK for Lufthansa Airlines and they were able to get $5 million in cash, $1 million in jewelry and that has never been found. Nobody knows exactly where it went.

[15:25:09]

Only one person, Brooke, was prosecuted years ago. It was someone who worked inside the cargo building, the terminal, that they believe gave the OK sign for the masked gunman to come in. But now suddenly you have Vincent Asaro, who is being prosecuted as one of the masterminds, conspirators, participants of it all.

He's charged in a multicount indictment with many, many things, but the trial started today. First witness for the prosecution, Sal Vitale, who said that he met with one of the crime bosses years ago who related a story that the defendant had given him and opened up a suitcase one day that had all this jewelry in it. And he said it was from the heist.

And this person on the stand actually got a necklace. So that's part of the evidence right now. The defense says, there's no evidence that can convict my client because most of the gunmen were killed because they were going to rat and they were going to be witnesses.

BALDWIN: How did the feds track Asaro down?

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: It was a long, long investigation, 78 years old when he was indicted last year, 80 years old now. But the allegations in the indictment go to 2013 of participating in crime activity, mafia crime activity, yes.

BALDWIN: Wow.

CASAREZ: It's amazing.

BALDWIN: Jean Casarez, the real-life "Goodfellas" trial in New York, thank you very much.

CASAREZ: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Next, "Saturday Night Live" nails it, casting Larry David to impersonate Bernie Sanders -- a closer look at the "SNL" effect, we will call it, on presidential campaigns.

Plus, it's just days away, October 21, 2015, the date Marty McFly plugged into DeLorean, and social media is buzzing about ways you can celebrate "Back to the Future" day. I want those shoes. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)