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Bush-Trump Feud; Planned Parenthood Video; Anti-Immigrant Rallies Growing in Germany; Final "Star Wars" Trailer Debuts. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 20, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: But the fact is, the historical record shows that President Bush, before 9/11, really had no idea about al Qaeda or bin Laden. There's an easy way for any viewer to check this. Look on the public record for any statements by President Bush before 9/11 about bin Laden or al Qaeda or any records by Vice President Cheney, and you will find nothing. So in their public statements they didn't seem to think al Qaeda or bin Laden were a problem and in their private meetings we know as a fact that they didn't think al Qaeda was a problem because they had 33 cabinet meetings before 9/11, only one of which was about terrorism and al Qaeda. And the very first one they had, by the way, Carol, was about Iraq, the supposedly pressing problem with Iraq. So that is where their heads were at and that's just a matter of historical record.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Even though, not so long before President Bush took office, there was an attack on the USS Cole and there was also an attack on the World Trade Center before the - what happened on 9/11.

BERGEN: Right. Well the attack on the World Trade Center, you know, was treated as a law enforcement matter and it wasn't - you know, it's never been clear that it was an al Qaeda operation. By the way, you know, when our embassies in Africa were attacked on - in - on August 7, 1988, President Clinton did respond with a very warlike response, which is he sent a whole posy of cruise missiles into Afghanistan at al Qaeda training camps killing a number of people. Bin Laden narrowly escaped being killed. He also destroyed what turned out to be a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, which was alleged to be in some way related to al Qaeda's chemical production.

So, you know, I mean what Jeb Bush said in the interview this morning with Fox is not really true. Clinton did treat it to some degree as a war problem, as much as a law enforcement problem. But both administrations sat on their hands after the USS Cole attack, which killed 17 American soldiers, and it was pretty clear that al Qaeda did that on October 12, 2000.

So, you know, there is some blame - you know, blame is the wrong word. More could have been done by both administrations. But the Bush administration was in office for nine months and really their concerns were antiballistic missile defense, which, of course, it does nothing to stop terrorists. Their concerns were Iraq. Their concerns were China. And they - you know, they had a kind of cold war mindset where they didn't see al Qaeda as the problem.

COSTELLO: Let's look forward now. Does any candidate out there have a plan that would prevent such an attack in the future, deal with ISIS, deal with al Qaeda? Does anybody have that plan or are they just looking backwards and pointing fingers of blame?

BERGEN: Well, I think, you know, I think both the Bush administration and the Obama administration, since 9/11, obviously there have been mistakes. Invading Iraq, they kind of amplified the Jihadi problem and created in a sense the groundwork for al Qaeda in Iraq, which became ISIS. But, you know, both - you know, I mean the facts speak for themselves. Since 9/11, 31 Americans have been killed in the United States by jihadi terrorists, which is a - you know, it's individually these are, of course, all tragic, but these are not national catastrophes like 9/11 was. So the fact is, is that both administrations, since 9/11, have done a very good job of building up American defenses and also American offenses.

The idea that Obama treats al Qaeda as a - or ISIS as a law enforcement problem, which Jeb Bush just said, is absolutely insane. I mean you - that Obama has authorized literally thousands of strikes against members of ISIS or al Qaeda and killed many, many thousands of them. That is not a law enforcement approach. I mean, if anything, it's a, you know, it's a very aggressive approach. And so we'll hear - I guess we're going to hear a lot more about this because it seems to be something that is attracting a lot of interest and attention. But at the end of the day, it's a good discussion to have because, I mean, history is about trying to get the facts right.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. Peter Bergen, thanks for your insight. And you can check out Peter's op-ed at cnn.com/opinion.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:38:20] COSTELLO: The controversy over undercover videos is leading to more fallout for Planned Parenthood. Texas is cutting the group from its Medicaid program. Health officials citing hidden camera videos like this slamming the organization's ethics. Planned Parenthood calls the decision outrageous and political. A federal judge blocked a similar move in Louisiana, citing concerns about a lack of investigation or any due process. As for those hidden videos, we're now learning more about what some are calling their misleading nature. Senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin is in Atlanta with that.

Good morning, Drew.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

When these videos began rolling out this summer, Planned Parenthood said they were heavily edited, taken out of context. The group that produced them, David Daleiden is the producer and the Center for Medical Progress, says they show exactly what he believes is going on, that Planned Parenthood was selling fetal tissue samples to various research labs for profit. That is the issue here. The problem for David Daleiden and the Center for Medical Progress as we found is his misuse of video. One such misuse found its way into the Republican presidential debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kick.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): In the second Republican debate, an impassioned Carly Fiorina made this attack on Planned Parenthood, citing this video clip of another baby in Daleiden's documentary, again, with Holly O'Donnell providing the narration.

HOLLY O'DONNELL: And its nose is very pronounced. It had eyelids. And its mouth was pronounced. And then since the fetus was still intact, she said, OK, well, this is a really good fetus.

[09:40:10] GRIFFIN (on camera): A horrific image.

DAVID DALEIDEN, ANTI-ABORTION ACTIVIST: Not just an image, a video.

GRIFFIN: Where did it come from?

DALEIDEN: That video is from an organization called the Center for Bioethical Reform. They are one of the largest repositories of abortion images and abortion videos in the world I think.

GRIFFIN: So you don't know where that came from?

DALEIDEN: I don't know the exact clinic, no. The exact location? I don't know the exact location.

GRIFFIN: Or the date?

DALEIDEN: I don't know the exact location or the date. I know that that's footage from CBR, from their abortion images archive.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): The Center for Bioethical Reform would not release any detailed information either. The center claims it was an aborted fetus and that they paid for the video.

GRIFFIN (on camera): This is - this is actually what Carly Fiorina was talking about, right?

DALEIDEN: Uh-huh.

GRIFFIN: This is that video. But you can't tell me right now if this was even at the Planned Parenthood facility.

DALEIDEN: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's only there as an illustration of the sort of born alive, late term fetus that Holly O'Donnell is talking about.

GRIFFIN: But you don't know where the baby was born. You don't know what date the baby was born. You don't know the particular clinic the baby was born. Yet this whole video production is talking about Planned Parenthood selling body parts and, you know, abortions.

DALEIDEN: Right. Right. And that's a - and this specific sequence right here with Holly O'Donnell is talking about an infant that was born alive in a Planned Parenthood clinic that they then harvested the brain from and so -

GRIFFIN: Only, once again, not this baby.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Planned Parenthood has used the controversial video edits to attack the entire production as being a fraud.

DAWN LAGUENS, EXECUTIVE V.P., PLANNED PARENTHOOD: All of the tape and footage that David Daleiden has released out into the world has been heavily edited and I think pretty thoroughly discredited.

GRIFFIN: Dawn Laguens is an executive vice president at Planned Parenthood and discrediting the misuse of video was easy. But we asked her about the other parts of the tape that do seem to show bargaining, negotiating, pricing and arranging the sales of body parts. Like in this exchange where Planned Parenthood's Dr. Mary Gatter appears to be in negotiations over the sale of fetal tissue samples.

BUYER: What I want to know is, what would - what would work for you? Don't lowball it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

BUYER: Tell me what you really -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $75 a specimen.

BUYER: Oh, that's way too low.

GRIFFIN (on camera): OK. So that sounds like negotiation of prices. What - what is it?

LAGUENS: Well, one, we don't know because, again, these tapes are extremely heavily edited and what you think -

GRIFFIN: But that - that portion was not edited.

LAGUENS: No, actually - let me just say, $75, this is a person, a doctor, a fabulous doctor who does great care for women who wouldn't, in an affiliate, be the person anyway who would tell you what the reimbursement costs that we're allowed under the law would be. She's somebody they got to come to lunch and they start asking her to guess about what would be a proper reimbursement.

Now, they're all introduced -

GRIFFIN: She's a medical director for Planned Parenthood, right?

LAGUENS: Yes, but she doesn't know what the cost of FedEx would be. She's guessing. And she said, I used to work somewhere else and it was another amount. So she's just trying to ask them, what is it that you pay other people as an allowable amount under the law? Because these people, were they real, would not be able to pay somebody more than the reimbursement costs that are allowed by the law.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Carol, it is illegal to sell fetal tissue for profit, which is the issue here. And what these tapes do seem to show, whether they are edited in some way or not, is many official, many people involved with Planned Parenthood, discussing pricing over fetal tissue samples.

So last week trying to put this entire episode behind them, Planned Parenthood announced at the small fraction of its clinics that did get reimbursed, as they say, for tissue samples, they will end that practice. The tissue samples will now be donated. There will be no money transferred.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Drew Griffin reporting live from Atlanta. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the refugees keep coming in. Now thousands of protesters have a message, stay out. We'll take you to Germany, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:55] COSTELLO: There was no stopping the massive flow of refugees heading toward Europe, that's despite Hungary's move to seal their border with Croatia, forcing the migrants and refugees to seek out other routes to the west.

This is what it looks like on the ground. A column of people escorted by Slovenian police to a refugee camp after crossing the border from Croatia. Their ultimate destination is western Europe, particularly Germany.

And as Atika Shubert reports, angry public sentiment against the immigrants is growing louder.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every Monday night in Dresden, thousands come out to protest. Their message? No more refugees, Germany is full.

The protest is organized by PEGIDA or Patriotic Europeans Against Islamization, once dismissed as a fringe group of right-wing extremists and political amateurs, but their protests have persisted and grown, fueled by public fears that Germany is not prepared for the more than a million asylum seekers expected to arrive this year.

More than half of respondents in a recent poll said they now believe Germany has, quote, "too many refugees." Tamas (ph) is one of them. He told us he fears Germany's traditions are being eroded by Muslims migrants.

[09:50:07] TAMAS (ph): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE). SHUBERT: Every Monday night, he told us, we come to gather peacefully.

We are not Nazis, he says. We don't want to be labeled as Nazis and we don't want to be painted into the right-wing corner. We just don't want to become strangers in our own country, he says.

On Monday night, police estimated 15,000 came out to protest against refugees.

(on camera): And this is the counter protest. Several thousand people, very noisy crowd, with signs that say "refugees and welcome and PEGIDA out."

(voice-over): It's a smaller but noisier crowd, heckling their right- wing opponents. The Dresden protests are attempting to echo the weekly anti-Communist demonstrations here that ultimately brought down the Berlin Wall and reunited the country. But many in the crowd listened with growing discomfort at the angry speeches directed against migrants.

(PROTESTERS CHANTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

SHUBERT: It is a pity for Germany and the German people what's being said here today, this man told us, as if they represent the people. What they are saying is in complete contrast to what people here demonstrated for 25 years ago. It's enough to make me cry, he says.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

(PROTESTERS CHANTING)

SHUBERT: Protesters on both sides insist they will press on with their demonstrations through the winter, marking a public divide that runs deep. But the numbers show that fear and anger towards refugees is a political reality that cannot be ignored.

Atika Shubert, CNN, Dresden, Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Checking other top stories for you at 51 minutes past. Former Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius now under house arrest at a mansion owned by his uncle in South Africa. He'll spend the next four years there. He was released from prison one year after being found negligent in the fatal shooting of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. Prosecutors are still seeking a murder conviction and will file an appeal next month.

In Canada, the newest face of the government is an old name in Canadian politics. Justin Trudeau, son of former prime minister Pierre Trudeau, yesterday led his liberal party to an overwhelming majority in parliament. The sunning election marks the first time in almost ten years that the conservative government of Stephen Harper will not be in power.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the force is with the new "Star Wars" trailer. It's awesome! We'll show it to you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:52] COSTELLO: Millions of "Star Wars" fans are -- quite simply freaking out right now. Han Solo, Chewbacca, Princess Leia and a melted Darth Vader mask. All this and a whole lot more appeared in the new and long-awaited "Star Wars" trailer. Here's a look.

("STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS" TRAILER)

COSTELLO: I'm mesmerized by that, Nischelle Turner. It's just simple - It's kind of cool, right?

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Kind of? I mean, it's all the way cool. I'm ready, Carol. I was talking to Michaela and Brian Stelter on "NEW DAY" just a little bit ago. Michaela said, you know, I was on the fence until I saw the trailer. I wasn't. I was ready before I saw the trailer and now that I've seen it, I'm even more so.

You know, it really did -- I think it was genius, No. 1, for them to release this trailer during Monday Night Football because it kind of gave an added excitement and also brought more eyeballs to the table. But it's already been viewed, this trailer, over 9 million times. People are really going gaga -- if I can say that -- gaga over the release of "Star Wars VII: The Force Awakens." I guess the fans are awakened - if I can say that --

COSTELLO: They're not selling tickets already, are they?

TURNER: They are. They started selling tickets last night online. A lot of the websites crashed because there was such interest. They are back up and running today, but you can see just the amount of people that have gone, trying to buy these tickets pre-sale. There's 58 days until the movie opens, but still there are so many tickets that are sold out already. They're actually already showing up on eBay. People are trying to resell them for hundreds of dollars.

COSTELLO: I can't believe that. Why do you think people are so -- I mean, I watched "Star Wars", the original "Star Wars", because I'm old enough to watch the originals and I loved it, but it's cheesy if you watch it now. So, why are people so emotionally connected to these characters?

TURNER: Well, because -- for movie lovers like me, it's because we love the movie, we love the franchise. You know, what this movie is doing is actually blending the old with the new. I mean, we did see - in the trailer we saw Han Solo, we saw Princess Leia, and we - And so that gives us the excitement of that. We saw Chewbacca. Who we did not see is Luke Skywalker. So everyone wants to see -- We know that Mark Hamill's in the movie. We were talking about this earlier as well. He is in the movie. We did not see him in the trailer. So the big question is, where is Luke Skywalker?

We also saw John Boyega, who you see right there, he plays Finn. We saw him with the light saber, we saw him go up against Kylo Ren, who basically is going to be the new dark side, we think, because we saw him talking to the helmet, saying I will finish what you started. So we're wondering -- Is he a Jedi? There's so many questions, there's so many things that need to be answered in the film.

COSTELLO: Luke Skywalker is in the melted Darth Vader mask.

TURNER: Oh, Carol.

(LAUGHTER)