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Branson: All Drugs Should be Legalized; Clinton, GOP Gearing up for Testimony; NFL Investigating Manziel Incident; Senior Hamas Leader Arrested. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired October 20, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:45] RICHARD BRANSON, VIRGIN GROUP: And quite quickly that we believe now the executive director of the U.N. ODC ended up saying that the document could not go out on Sunday as planned. So exactly why they changed their mind, who's to know?

I think what is really important is what was in the document. The document said that -- encouraged for drugs to be de criminalized. The document said that they're criminalizing people has done enormous harm and is unnecessary and that millions have -- unnecessary arrests have been made.

And this is from the very body that oversees the -- oversees drug policy on a global basis. So it's a very powerful document. It's a document that the global drug commission agree with and we would hope -- we would -- sorry.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: No. Mr. Branson, I was just wondering, all drugs? You're talking cocaine and heroine? All drugs should be legalized -- or decriminalized?

BRANSON: This document from the U.N. ODC said that all drugs should be decriminalized worldwide. Now, the reason that we agree with this is that if you take -- if you take heroine as an example, Portugal had a massive heroine problem years ago. And they -- the prime minister stood up and said, we will not send anyone to prison, we will not prosecute anyone taking heroine. We will help them. We'll set up clinics for them to come to. And over the last 10 years, they've managed to reduce the amount of people taking heroine by 90 percent.

So if you actually look after your children and help them if they have a drug problem or your brothers and sisters, you will get them off. If you threaten them with, you know, prison sentences and criminal offenses, it doesn't work. It hasn't worked the last six years.

COSTELLO: Well, let me ask you this, because in the United States we've been sort of experimenting with that in many states, right -- decriminalizing marijuana. In fact about 20 states have decriminalized marijuana. Yet a September report showed that Colorado, the first state to decriminalize pot, traffic-related deaths increased by 92 percent from 2010 to 2014. So that seems to say if you decriminalize something like marijuana, more people will abuse it. BRANSON: I think if you -- I don't know the specific stats from

individual states but what I do know is that the amount of people taking marijuana has not increased in Colorado or in Washington State -- the places where marijuana has been legalized.

And in the states where medical marijuana has been used, an awful lot of people have actually benefited from the use of medical marijuana, from you know, quite extreme ailments. So I think you can always find something to have a headline, but by and large, the amount of misery that's being caused by imprisoning -- I mean in America you have 1.8 million people in prison for drug-related offenses.

If you could actually not put those people in prison, but if you could actually help those people and try to make sure they are not taking drugs and they can become useful members of society again, America would benefit enormously.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, you are right about that. Half of all inmates serving time in U.S. federal prisons are incarcerated for drug offenses. But I only say that a lot of people talk about decriminalizing drugs, right? But nothing ever really happens because, frankly, nobody has the infrastructure in place to take care of people who might be addicted to drugs. So, how do you start?

BRANSON: Yes, I think -- I think the money that is being got in tax from selling of marijuana ought to be -- ought to go towards clinics to help people with alcohol problems, to help people with all kinds of different addictions. And I think the government -- you know, governments must help more. Like they've done in Portugal and Switzerland and Germany.

You know, if you do the two things at the same time, you will get on top of the problem. In the countries that treat drugs as a health problem, not a criminal problem, it's become a non-event. In countries that continue to wage war, like Mexico and America, you know, hundreds of people get killed, thousands of people get killed every year unnecessarily. And so there needs to be a rethink after six years of a failed war on drugs.

[10:35:05] COSTELLO: We have to leave it there. Richard Branson -- thanks so much for joining me.

BRANSON: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

No cheap shots, stick to the facts and don't give an inch. Politico says that's the Republican plan for dealing with Hillary Clinton at this week's Benghazi hearing. For Clinton, the stakes are high. Her foreign policy credentials will be on the line.

So let's talk about this. With me now CNN senior political analyst and editorial director for the "National Journal Ron Brownstein; I'm also joined by CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp. Welcome to both of you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

So Ron -- no cheap shots, stick to the facts, don't give an inch. For those who watched the Republican-led hearings on Planned Parenthood, is that possible?

BROWNSTEIN: Look, I mean I think this is a very challenging moment not only for her but increasingly for the committee -- right. I mean these are legitimate issues: the security, how the State Department responded to the security situation in Libya. For that matter Hillary Clinton's judgment in using the private e-mail server.

But this is the eighth congressional investigation of Benghazi, plus the administrative review. And I think the committee is under a certain amount of pressure here to show that there is something to show for this. There is new information. There are new questions to ask. Secretary Clinton has testified before Congress.

And the back drop for this has been kind of the drum beat of first house majority leader Kevin McCarthy, and then the other congressman Richard Hanna, former staffer, basically arguing this is fundamentally political.

So while they're asking legitimate questions, they also face this cloud. I think there's a certain amount of pressure on them to show that this inquiry was legitimate and we'll see who comes out on Thursday.

COSTELLO: S.E., the chairman, Trey Gowdy, told Politico, these have been the worst weeks of his life, worse than when he got death threats as a prosecutor. But isn't he, in part, part of the problem? There have been leaks from his committee, two Republican lawmakers have come out and accused the committee of being partisan. Isn't it, in part, his fault for not controlling things better?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm sure he wishes that there were a bit more control in these hearings, but everyone that knows Trey Gowdy will tell you that he is a straight-shooter. He's a prosecutor. He takes this very seriously. I don't think he could have anticipated some of the -- you know, the outbursts that have come from the committee. And I'm sure he very much wishes that they wouldn't.

But look, this is involving Hillary Clinton, who is running for president. Avoiding politics in this is almost impossible. Just like avoiding politics in the Iraq war hearings when Joe Biden, who had just announced he was running for president, was presiding over that hearing and the panel was stacked with other people who were thinking of running for president, including Barack Obama in 2007.

It's really hard to keep politics completely separate when it's involving Hillary Clinton, who's running for president. COSTELLO: Well, that's not to say Trey Gowdy isn't trying

because according to the "Washington Post", Gowdy's campaign returned money from three donors which apparently to an anti-Clinton PAC. So, Ron, at least he's trying.

BROWNSTEIN: Look, well, Gowdy has not had a reputation as being a hyper-partisan. He is a prosecutor but he's presided over a process, that as he said, is inexorably partisan and has probably been made more partisan along the way by the comments of, you know, of some of the Republicans. There's tremendous in-fighting between the committee Democrats and committee Republicans.

You know, it's kind of just a long-term trajectory of Congress. If you think back to something like the Iran-contra committee, much less the Watergate committees in the 70s, both sides worked together to a large extent on the inquiry. Now it's just trench warfare right from the beginning.

And as I said, I mean the back drop of this is that there have been repeated investigations. Representative Gowdy says they have new information that is relevant. We'll see. I mean you know, the underlying -- it is legitimate to ask about how the State Department responded. It is legitimate to ask about Hillary Clinton's choices in setting up a private e-mail server.

But, you know, the question of how they ask and the way they pursue this, that is still at issue. And I think the committee has a high bar to justify the expense and the time following so many other inquiries.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Ron Brownstein, S.E. Cupp -- many thanks.

[10:39:21] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Johnny football in trouble again off the field -- now the NFL is investigating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The Brown's quarterback, Johnny Manziel, is generating a lot more attention off the field these days than when he's on it. The NFL is now investigating his latest brush with the law a week ago.

Manziel and his girlfriend Colleen Crowley were pulled over after the pair got into a fight in his car. Manziel told police it escalated when she threw his wallet out the window. He then said he grabbed her by the wrist to keep her from jumping out of the car. Pictures show Crowley's arm with an abrasion. This is what she told police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened today? You guys were obviously in this car.

COLLEEN CROWLEY, JOHNNY MANZIEL'S GIRLFRIEND: He's like -- I don't know. He hit me a couple of times. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While you were in the car?

CROWLEY: Yes. I don't -- please don't make --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. CNN sports anchor Rachael Nichols is covering the Manziel saga for us. What is up with this?

RACHAEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS: Yes, I mean look, it's upsetting, right, if you listen to that whole tape. She's crying. She talks about him hitting her, him pushing her, him grabbing her arm. But she also simultaneously says, I don't want to do anything about this. You know, he didn't hurt me, she says, I'm OK.

[10:45:00] So she's sort of giving some conflicting information which makes it complicated for police. And unfortunately we see this in domestic disputes this happen. He then gives his account to police. And take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so she did toss your wallet. So somewhere in --

JOHNNY MANZIEL, NFL PLAYER: It's somewhere in this field right here. Regardless

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. But your wallet was found?

MANZIEL: She was charging her phone. Her phone was dead. I had her phone on the charger, it was in between my legs.

Whenever the phone came on, she could tell it came due to the --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The screen in your car?

MANZIEL: Due to the screen. It said reading the deal. She turned the screen on. She could tell. She tried to grab it from my hand. When she grabbed it, threw my wallet out the window. I pulled up in this driveway right here and then flipped a U to get out, turned around and get out and try to look for my wallet.

After that happened, she threw her phone out the window. I was trying to -- grabbed her arm somewhat like this. Get in the car, get in the car. We don't need trouble. Get in the car. I'll come find this later. I'll find it tonight, tomorrow, whatever. After that happened, I guess this lady pulled over --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody called --

MANZIEL: Somebody called the cops after that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So was she trying to get out of the car or was she tossing stuff out of the car?

MANZIEL: She tossed my wallet out of the car and after that she got out of the car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: The key there, Carol, is that she said to police, she tossed his wallet out of the car because she wanted to get out of the car and he wouldn't stop. And she thought if she started throwing things that were important to him out of the car, he would stop the car and let her out.

He said that he grabbed her wrist, trying to keep her from leaving the car. So you can make your own decision about whether you feel that's violence or a problem.

You mentioned at the top, the NFL is investigating the incident. That's the indication that we have from the Cleveland Browns. We asked the NFL directly if they were investigating the incident. They wouldn't say. They said that it is their policy to investigate incidents when they might have violated the personal conduct policy. So it would be nice to get a little bit of clarity --

COSTELLO: Well, you would think because of the sensitivity surrounding the domestic violence issue within the NFL that they would sort of investigate.

NICHOLS: You would want to have some more transparency. And I think that's what a lot of fans want is they don't want to make a snap judgment on Johnny Manziel. We don't know what happened in that car and nobody is pretending that they know as an outsider what happened in that car.

You would like the league and the organization to have some transparency to show fans, hey, not only are we on top of it, but look what a good job we're doing now since we've said that we've made great strides in being better at it. Show us that you are better at it.

The other side, as you know, from following Ohio sports so closely, Johnny Manziel went into rehab earlier in the year for an alcohol problem. He told police he had a couple drinks before he got in the car. They decided not to give him a field sobriety test but you would think the NFL -- you would think would look into that as well.

COSTELLO: The poor -- it's just a sad story all the way around. Rachel Nichols -- many thanks.

NICHOLS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Coming up in the NEWSROOM, a major arrest in Israel -- the senior Hamas leader now in custody after an overnight raid. We'll tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:27] COSTELLO: An Israeli was killed this morning after being run over by a truck. Israeli officials say a mob of Palestinians first threw rocks at the victim's vehicle and when he stepped out of the car, they ran him down. The brutal death comes as the Israel Defense Force announced the arrest of a senior Hamas leader in the West Bank.

CNN senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman, live on the West Bank this morning. Hi, Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi -- Carol.

We're at the Gush Etzion (ph) junction just south of Bethlehem where about two hours ago there was an attack where a Palestinian driver, driving a car with Israeli plates swerved off the road and went into a crowd of people. According to the Israeli police, one soldier, one civilian were wounded lightly, according to their description.

I'm just going to step out of the way to show you the scene itself. According to the police, there were security forces on the scene as there always are at this particular junction, and they shot the attacker dead. Now what we see now, the scene has been completely cleaned up. These concrete pillars that are used to block cars, some were knocked over. They've been put back. They've put concrete, the barriers here and also in that ambulance is the body of the attacker.

It's as you said, the third attack of the day in this area of the West Bank.

You mentioned that Israeli driver who stepped out of his car and was run over by a truck driven by a Palestinian. In that instance, the truck driver seems to have gotten away -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Ben Wedeman, reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

[10:54:06] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, heritage or hate? A symbol that's divided a college campus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking some top stories at 58 minutes past.

Former Olympics sprinter Oscar Pistorius now under house arrest at this mansion owned by his uncle in South Africa. He'll spend the next four years here. Pistorius was released from prison one year after being found negligent in the fatal shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. Prosecutors are still seeking a murder conviction and will file an appeal next month.

Student leaders at Ole Miss will vote today on whether to remove the Mississippi state flag from campus because it has the confederate battle flag on it. The vote comes as confederate symbols and tributes fall under increased scrutiny following June's racially motivated church shooting in Charleston where nine members of an historically black church were killed.

More than two years after this deadly building collapse in Philadelphia, the contractor overseeing its demolition has been convicted. Jurors found Griffin Campbell guilty of a series of charges, including manslaughter and reckless endangerment. Prosecutors say Campbell took shortcuts to try to maximize profit. Six people were killed and more than a dozen injured in the collapse.

And it's a night Ahmed Mohammed will not soon forget, the 14- year-old from Texas meeting President Obama on Monday during the White House's astronomy night. You'll recall Ahmed was arrested after a clock he built was mistaken for a bomb. Even though the President did invite him to do so, Ahmed did not bring the clock to the White House. We assume he left it at home.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

[11:00:08] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: And I'm John Berman, we have breaking news at this very hour that affects millions and millions --

[10:29:45] RICHARD BRANSON, VIRGIN GROUP: And quite quickly that we believe now the >