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New Breast Cancer Guidelines; Will Biden Run?; Trump Leading Polls. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 20, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

DAVE GONZALES, GEEK.COM: With a sense of callback to what made the original trilogy great. You could see a lot of echoes from the original trilogy here, be it a planet-sized weapon from the evil Empire, which is now called The First Order, or just the Millennium Falcon showing up or one of our heroes being on a desert planet.

I feel like it's a new twist on familiar themes, which I think the prequels came in a little soft for. I'm a lot more excited about "The Force Awakens."

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, well, John Berman, C-3PO, says, thank you, Dave Gonzales. I appreciate it.

GONZALES: Thank you very much, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Joe Biden may announce soon, he may not, he may run, he may not, he may have a salad for dinner, he may not. But one thing we know for sure, today, Joe Biden took several new swipes against Hillary Clinton without even mentioning her by name. Are the remarks a tell?

Officially and oddly, Biden still has not announced if he's running for president, but speaking at a Washington forum today, I want you to listen closely to what he did say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: How would you not be a third term of President Obama?

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, there's a lot that I would like to do to build on the successes of President Obama, but also, as I'm laying out, to go beyond.

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: President Obama and I have -- ideologically have had no disagreement. None. I mean zero.

CLINTON: Well, in addition to the NRA, the health insurance companies, the drug companies, the Iranians, probably the Republicans.

(LAUGHTER)

BIDEN: I don't think my chief enemy is the Republican Party. This is a matter of making things work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As the talk of Iran heats up, the polls show registered Democrats cooling on the idea of a Joe Biden campaign, only 47 percent compared to 53 percent in August.

Also, these numbers for you. This NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll found 38 percent of Democratic primary voters don't think Biden should run, compared to the 30 percent who do.

Our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, who really has had much of our inside scoop here on a possible Biden run, is with us now.

As far as strategy, Jeff, especially with the whole veiled swipe on the enemies and Republicans bit, what do you think his strategy is here?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, it's clear that the vice president was sitting home that night watching that debate on CNN. It's clear that he's been really reciting lines back and that enemies line is so interesting. He's really trying to draw a distinction between how he would run as a president and how Hillary Clinton says things.

He's kind of the guy next door, the wise guy, the guy everyone likes who is so authentic. He's trying to make that clear that he would be a different type of candidate if he decides to run. He's also talking so much more about how he's the vice president, how he outranked the secretary of state, how he traveled around the world actually more miles than she did.

He actually said he traveled more miles than she did today. He's really trying to, I think, remind Democrats that it was President Obama who picked him to be his running mate. He also explored the Osama bin Laden raid, really somebody that was inside the Situation Room at the time, this discussion back at the time about how some of the different players had different points of view.

So, he went into that actually in some interesting length we haven't heard him talk about quite this much before. Let's take a listen to this and talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Only two people who were definitive and were absolutely certain. Leon Panetta said go. And Bob Gates, who has already publicly said this, said, don't go. And others were 59/41. Some ended up saying go, but it was such a close call.

And I joked. And I said, you all sound like 17 Larry Summers, an economist, on the one hand, and the other hand. And they said, well, Joe, what would you do? And there was a third option that I didn't really think we should do. I said, well, I said, I think we should make one more pass with another UAV to see if it is him. And the reason I did that is, I didn't want to take a position to go

if that was not where he was going to go. So, as we walked out of the room and walked upstairs, I said -- I told him my opinion, that I thought he should go, but follow his own instinct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now, Brooke, if you listen to the end of that, that's the most interesting thing, at least in terms of Washington pecking order.

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

ZELENY: Because, as we walked out of the room and we went upstairs, he's talking about a private conversation with the president, because he was the last man the president was talking to, not Hillary Clinton, not some of these others.

[15:05:03]

So, he was making clear that he was right at his side. And, also, interestingly, he did not mention Hillary Clinton's name at all in that. He said there were two people who made up their minds, Leon Panetta and Robert Gates. And she of course was in the room. We also remember that famous photograph in the Situation Room. I thought it was so interesting how he just did not mention at all that she was there.

He's trying to sort of remind Democrats, remind voters that he has been next to this president from the very beginning. He's not the only one who has been.

BALDWIN: While I have you, Jeff Zeleny, I want to toss to this. One of the Dems who would like to be president, former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley, was on "The View" this morning and he had some tough talk already for the vice president and all the while showing off his guitar-strumming skills. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If he were to get into this race, he would certainly bring a lot of experience and that perspective. But I think his generation is already overly represented in our party. I thought I would offer this up for Taylor Swift.

(singing): Because, baby, now we got bad blood. You know, it used to be mad love. So take a look at what you have done, that maybe now we got bad blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Maybe he'd be a better president than a singer. I don't know. Maybe he's going for the young demo. Jeff Zeleny, care to react to that one?

ZELENY: Well, Brooke, he's a musician. He has an Irish band. Actually, I have seen his band play in Baltimore. BALDWIN: Oh, yes?

ZELENY: It's actually pretty good. He's much better than that clip right there. I don't think he -- he talked about different generation. I'm not sure this is his generation of music right there.

But, look, I do think that Martin O'Malley is trying to do anything he can to distinguish himself by saying he would be a new generation of leader. And when you go on "The View," I think you're supposed to sort of roll with the punches. I think he definitely did. But I'm not sure that he should give up his day job. Just saying, you know?

BALDWIN: Taylor Swift has been bringing people on the road with her. I'm just saying that as well. You never know. Jeff Zeleny, thank you.

ZELENY: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: To the Republican side. Political outsiders are king, as we have been reporting for awhile now. And even our new CNN/ORC poll finds Donald Trump leading the Republican field with 27 percent, Ben Carson the only other in double digits at 22, Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio tied at 8 percent.

And one-time star Carly Fiorina has tumbled 11 points just in this month down to 4 percent. We will get to her fall in just a minute.

But first on Trump, we're hearing from Republican strategists more and more it seems like folks are coming to grips with the idea that Donald Trump really could win the Republican nomination.

So, let's talk about that with Lisa Boothe in Washington, D.C., Republican strategist, and in New Hampshire, Donald Trump's Rockingham County co-chairman, Lou Gargiulo.

So, great to have both of you on.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And, Lisa, just to first on that notion that it seems like a lot of Republican strategists who I'm reading who are quoted are saying, hey, Trump really may be the guy.

LISA BOOTHE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, and, Brooke, I think you have seen a lot of Republican strategists and Republican pundits kind of change their tune. I think the longer that Donald Trump continues to remain on top, the more of a viable candidate he seems to be.

And I think what we're seeing in the Republican field right now is just a lot of fluidity, not as much in these top two spots where we continue to see Donald Trump and Ben Carson top 20 percent. But among the top 5, there's been a lot of fluidity.

And I think what Scott Walker's sudden departure from the race shows us is really anything can happen between now and the Iowa caucuses and now and between New Hampshire. So, I think as we start to see of these candidates like Pataki and Gilmore or Senator Rand Paul start to drop out, that race will become even more fluid.

BALDWIN: OK.

Lou, let me stay on your guy, Donald Trump here. And this is what I find interesting. I was talking to some of my producers about this, the strategy with Donald Trump. He will pounce on someone, i.e., Jeb Bush just recently, and then you have this morning Donald Trump sort of backing off.

We know Jeb Bush last night has said, ultimately, yes, he would back the Republican nominee, so not whole hog attacking him. So once some other candidate who has been attacked is down, Donald Trump is nice. Why?

LOU GARGIULO, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIRMAN, ROCKINGHAM COUNTY, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Well, I think Mr. Trump in the core is a very nice man.

I think that he clearly attacks when people are attacking him. It's been an interesting three or four months.

BALDWIN: But he started that attack with Jeb Bush on 9/11.

GARGIULO: No, but Jeb Bush has clearly attacked him time and again.

And I think clearly what Mr. Trump said, again, many of those words are somewhat being taken out of context. He said in his early statement that President George W. Bush was president when 9/11 took place. That is a fact. And I don't think he was there blaming him in any way, shape or form. He just said, historically, that's what happened.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:10:04]

BALDWIN: You don't think there was any blame there from Donald Trump toward President George W.?

GARGIULO: What's that?

BALDWIN: You don't think that he was playing the blame game at all in pointing out that President Bush was president when 9/11 happened?

GARGIULO: I think he was stating a matter of fact.

I think that Governor Bush has vacillated on the whole 9/11, Iraq War, et cetera, and I think that Mr. Trump was clearly pointing out that President Bush was president when it happened. And, clearly, Jeb came right back at him and defended what happened.

And I don't think there was any need. I think, unfortunately, he created, Jeb Bush, a controversy where there was none. And I think a statement of fact was, it happened. It happened on President Bush's watch.

BALDWIN: OK. GARGIULO: And with that said, I don't think that playing into that

helped Governor Bush whatsoever.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me just -- let me jump in, because I think the point really is Donald Trump launches these political grenades, whatever it may be, whether it's about 9/11 or women or John McCain, and he also just this week said President Obama, Lisa, wants to take away Americans' guns.

And then when my colleague Alisyn Camerota followed up with Donald Trump and he called into "NEW DAY" this morning, he did back off. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You said, "You know the president is thinking about signing an executive order where he wants to take away your guns. You hear about this?"

Now, Mr. Trump, the president has not signed an executive order to take away guns.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, no, I have heard that he wants to. And I heard it, I think, on your network. Somebody said that that's what he's thinking about. I didn't say he's signing it. I said I think that will be a tough one to sign actually.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it's impossible, in fact.

TRUMP: Yes, I would say it would be impossible. But, nevertheless, he was thinking about it. And I have heard it from numerous networks and I have read it in the papers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So my point being, I feel like he -- Donald Trump really does score political points when he lobs a political grenade, when he makes an accusation. But when he softens up, I don't even know if backs away is rightly saying it, he doesn't lose any points. Why do you think that is?

BOOTHE: Well, I think that Donald Trump has been smart about when he's engaging with these candidates. Unfortunately, a lot of these candidates are taking the bait.

And I think that they need to be a little bit smarter with their engagement with Donald Trump, because, let's face it, Donald Trump came into this race as a celebrity. If you look at the "Celebrity Apprentice" finale, I believe there were six million viewers. So, he has a huge audience.

If you just look at his Twitter following, he has five got million followers on Twitter, which is more than any cable network show. He has got a huge reach here and he's been smart about capitalizing on that reach and really targeting some of these candidates.

And for someone like Jeb Bush, he really needs to be prepared to answer these questions about Iraq and answer these questions about his brother's presidency. And so far, he's had some problems doing so.

BALDWIN: Lisa Boothe and Lou Gargiulo, thank you both so much.

GARGIULO: Thank you. It's good being with you.

BALDWIN: You got it. You got it.

Just ahead here, Trump and Jeb Bush may be in this back and forth over 9/11, but George W. Bush behind closed doors, we have just learned, has been ripping Ted Cruz. Hear why and how Senator Cruz is responding.

Plus, a new round of guidelines involving breast cancer screenings. Hear what experts are telling women to do and some of the backlash against that.

Also more breaking news out of the Middle East today, this new attack, a driver ramming into a crowded bus stop, one of the apparent targets, an Israeli soldier. We will take you there live. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:49]

BALDWIN: I'm Brooke Baldwin, and this is CNN.

Brand-new guidelines for cancer screenings muddying the waters a bit on a controversial topic, when should women begin getting mammograms? Well, today, the most influential cancer group in the country changing its tune.

When it comes to it mammograms, they used to suggest women begin at age 40. Now they are instead saying women can start five years later at age 45. This is all coming from the American Cancer Society. Another big change, breast exams, for years and years, women have been told to get their doctor to check their breasts for lumps. Today, the American Cancer Society went back on that, saying annual breast exams with your doctor were no longer necessary.

So, joining me now, Dr. Stamatia Destounis, with the Elizabeth Wende Breast Clinic.

So, Destounis, thank you so much for joining me.

I think for a lot of women listening to all of this today, it's a bit confusing. Why would you not want to start a mammogram at 40? What's your response to that?

DR. STAMATIA DESTOUNIS, ELIZABETH WENDE BREAST CLINIC: Well, we agree that women should be getting a mammogram starting at age 40.

We have promoted breast cancer screening in our patients for years. We agree with the prior American Cancer Society guidelines that came out several years ago to start at 40. Our Society of Breast Imaging and our College of Radiology continue to advise women to have a screening mammogram at age 40.

We understand that the American Cancer Society reviewed all the data from multiple studies for the last three or four decades and came up with a thoughtful analysis of this data. However, we don't agree picking age 45 to start screening.

We think that women should have the best chance and the best prognosis and a life safe from breast cancer. And if we start at age 40, we're giving women the best opportunity to find a small tumor detected only on a mammogram that has the best prognosis and best survival for them.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Can you tell me this, Doc? Why is it that every couple of years, there seem to be different guidelines or different recommendations for mammograms?

[15:20:05]

DESTOUNIS: So, the American Cancer Society came out with these guidelines several years ago.

And then the U.S. task force in 2009 came up with new guidelines about starting at 50 and biannual, every two years, screening. There's a lot of controversy about the breast cancer screening and there's several reasons for it. I think, for women, this is a very important issue. And you're absolutely right. It's very confusing.

I think as meta-analysis of data comes out, there's different interpretations of different studies following patients for several years and decades later. And I think it all depends on the interpretation and what you pick as an end point and what you choose to look at. And then new guidelines come out or suggestions come out, which is very confusing.

The bottom line is, I have been a breast imager in Rochester, New York, for 20-some years and I have been seeing women in their 40s and I have been diagnosing them with breast cancer. I think starting at 40 makes a lot of sense, because almost a third of the patients that we see and we diagnosis with breast cancer are younger women, women in their 40s.

That will be a huge population of patients that we would miss if we didn't start screening at that age.

BALDWIN: All right, ladies, you heard Doctor Destounis, 40.

Dr. Destounis, thank you so much.

DESTOUNIS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, the head of the United Nations is calling for calm in Israel, in Jerusalem specifically. Just today, an soldier was stabbed and later a driver slammed into a crowded bus stop. We will take you there live to see what can be done to stop all this violence.

Plus, "I just don't like the guy." That's what we're hearing former President George W. Bush said with regard to presidential candidate Ted Cruz, details on why he's turning against the guy who used to work for him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:12]

BALDWIN: Tensions between Israel and the Palestinian territories ratcheting up today. More attacks have left one Israeli man dead, others injured. And Israeli forces killed two Palestinians in separate incidents.

These clashes have increased over the last couple weeks and today the U.N. secretary-general called on both sides to step back from what he called a -- quote -- "dangerous abyss." Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, however, not backing down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: President Abbas has not condemned a single one of the 30 terrorist attacks on Israelis over the last month. And he continues to glorify terrorists as heroes.

In the face of this terrorism, Israel is acting as any democracy would to defend its citizens. We are not, I repeat, we are not using excessive force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight to our correspondent there, Oren Liebermann, live in Jerusalem.

I know Ban Ki-Moon stood alongside Netanyahu today urging both sides to reduce tensions, but you're there and you have new reports of violence.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have just gotten reports of another attack in the West Bank city of Hebron.

The IDF says two attackers went up to an Israeli soldier and attempted to stab him, or did stab him and lightly wounded hum. The IDF says forces at the scene opened fire and hit both attackers. This has now become another violent day here, a lot of that violence not here in Jerusalem, but in the city of Hebron, which itself is a very contentious city, a split city, a divided city with a very small minority of Israeli settlers and a much larger population of Palestinians.

It's very contentious there with a holy site that is important to both religions. In another attack earlier today, the IDF says a Palestinian man drove his car into a bus station -- or -- I'm sorry -- a bus stop near the city of Hebron, injuring an Israeli civilian and a soldier. Forces at that scene opened fire and killed the driver. And then another Israeli killed in a hit-and-run, but IDF, they are unsure if that was an intentional attack. That's still under investigation. Regardless, still very tense here, these lone wolf attacks and the violence that escalates here racking up -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, Oren, the U.N. secretary-general, we know he's meeting with all the major players this week. So is U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. What do we know about those plans?

LIEBERMANN: Well, I think the ultimate plan -- or at least the immediate plan, I should probably say, is to get both of these sides talking, which they're not doing.

They have more statements to the media. They have more statements planned to the media, but the only people they are not talking to are each other. You heard what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said. They're blaming Palestinians for incitement.

No surprise here it's Palestinians blaming Israelis for incitement and Israeli leadership using too much force in and around East Jerusalem. The idea here is to create some sort of dialogue, get these guys talking just a little bit to see if that can ease a little bit of the tensions and scale down this violence that we're seeing.

BALDWIN: Oren Liebermann, thank you so much tonight in Jerusalem.

Next here on CNN, Donald Trump doubles down on comments that President George W. Bush was responsible for 9/11. We will speak with a woman who lost her son that day who says Trump does have a point, but she's still not backing him for president.

Also ahead, an Indiana man put on the sex offender registry after hooking up with a teen he met on a dating app gets a second chance -- why a new judge says he never deserved to be on that list in the first place.

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