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Case Against IRS's Lois Lerner Closed; Trump Trailing Carson in New Iowa Poll; Did Hillary Clinton Have the Best Week Ever; Obama Says Black Lives Matter Movement Not Anti-Law Enforcement. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired October 23, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: But again, our condolences to the family of Master Sergeant Joshua Wheeler.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: More breaking news on CNN. New information on the investigation into the former chief of the IRS, Lois Lerner.
Let me bring in justice correspondent, Evan Perez. He's about to break the news for us.
Bur first, Evan, remind us about who she was and this investigation.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lois Lerner was a former top official at the IRS who was in charge of overseeing tax- exempt organizations and whether or not they could benefit from tax exemptions. The accusation was that Tea Party groups and other like- minded groups were being singled out particular groups for scrutiny that others were not been subjected to.
The Justice Department has notified members of Congress in the last few minutes that it is closing that investigation and will not bring charges not against Lois Lerner and not against anyone else. They say they found plenty of evidence of mismanagement and poor judgment, but they said that poor management is not a crime. That's what this letter says that was sent to members of Congress just in the past few minutes.
[14:35:30] BALDWIN: Investigation closed.
Thank you for calling in with that, Evan Perez.
Now to politics and a shocker in Iowa. Donald Trump falling out of first place there. Trump now trails nine points behind Ben Carson. Carson leads the Republican pack with 28 percent among likely Iowa caucus goers. He's leading in two important polls. You have the "Des Moines Register"/Bloomberg poll and the Quinnipiac. The poll numbers prompted this retweet from Trump, "Ben Carson is now leading in the polls in Iowa. Too much Monsanto in the corn creates issues in the brain? #Trump#GOP." But within hours, Trump followed that tweet, blaming an intern saying this, "The young intern who accidentally did a retweet apologizes."
And on the radio, Trump told radio host, Hugh Hewitt, he's not sure he agrees with the new poll numbers. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: (voice-over): You're ahead except this Iowa Quinnipiac poll. Why is that the outlier? What's going on in Iowa?
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: I was very surprised to see it. I was in Iowa last night. We had 4,000 people. It was packed. It was great. It was a love fest. It was amazing. I was actually surprised to see it because I think we're doing well in Iowa. I have a feeling we're doing much better in Iowa than the polls are showing if you want to know the truth.
(END AUDIO FEED)
BALDWIN: Trump detractors pointing to new polls, saying, see, we told you he wouldn't last.
My next guest, in a piece in "Vanity Fair," says not so fast. In his article, David Burstein wrote, "A Trump presidency isn't just plausible, it is really possible."
It's so nice to have you on today.
Watch out, as Donald Trump reports on all these polls, he may be quoting your article.
(LAUGHTER)
You heard it here now. You point out in your piece you win elections by these electoral votes. So you're saying if there is this hypothetical, if Hillary Clinton gets the Democratic nomination, Donald Trump may not just win that nomination, he may win. Tell me why.
DAVID BURSTEIN, CNN & FOUNDER, RUN FOR AMERICA: It's important for us to keep in context that elections are won in the Electoral College. Trump starts out with 206 electoral votes. States like Indiana and North Carolina and places where Obama won in '08 and almost lost in 2012, those places maybe people thought Hillary could take those back. Someone like Trump is going to do well in places like that. What it really comes down to if you look at Ohio and Florida. Trump is leading Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush in every single poll in Florida for months and months. These are two of the most popular politicians in all of Florida. Obviously huge Hispanic population, but it's a Cuban population is large there. It's not particularly liberal. They are more likely to go to Trump and evangelical flavor there. And in Ohio people say, there's the unions, people are going to turn out for Democrats. But there's a new ruling that looks like it may come down, which is going to weaken union power further. And he has the working power feel.
BALDWIN: With the working class appeal, this would be the first real billionaire. Why when Mitt Romney was running that was seen as a negative for him. It has not been an issue with Donald Trump. BURSTEIN: One of the most amazing things about Trump, he's run for
president for free. People see his wealth differently. This guy lives in a gold palace. He's everything I should be. I'm going to trust him to fix the economy. So his wealth seems operational to a lot of voters. And he seems like just one of his us. His straight talk that he puts forward, it's able to make a lot of people say, yeah, I could vote for this guy.
BALDWIN: What do you call them two secret weapons? What are the two secret weapons in Trump's arsenal?
BURSTEIN: One of them is money. He's got total amount of money at his disposal. He can deploy that whenever e he wants. That's a huge amount of power.
BALDWIN: Huge.
BURSTEIN: Huge.
And I think the other thing that is really particularly unique in the case of Trump is he is someone who is a celebrity. Now every celebrity who has ever run for public office -- I don't count Clay Aiken --
(CROSSTALK)
BURSTEIN: But every single celebrity, they have all won. He has 92 percent name I.D. across the country. We have never had two people running for president like that. Also he's more the most popular celebrity to run for public office.
[14:40:32] BALDWIN: It's a fascinating thesis and you back it up with all these facts and figures. We shall see.
David Burstein, thank you so much for swinging by.
BURSTEIN: Thank you.
BALDWIN: I appreciate it.
Next, on the flip side, Hillary Clinton is smiling today. Her campaign may have just had its best week. I have Michael Smerconish joining me to marinate on Hillary Clinton.
Also much more on the breaking news. The strongest hurricane in history getting closer to landfall. Our reporter just arrived on the coast as everyone is getting out of dodge. We'll take you there live, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:37] BALDWIN: It's Friday. We're thrilled it's Friday. But did Hillary Clinton want the week to end? The week that could mark one of the best weeks of her presidential campaign? She endured the 11-hour grilling before the panel regarding the 2012 Benghazi attack. She's coming off a win of the most-watched Democratic debate ever. And she's coming into a new phase of her campaign where Vice President Joe Biden is no longer a threat since he announced this week he's not running for president.
Today, before a much friendlier crowd at the Democratic National Committee's Women Leadership Forum, Hillary Clinton seemed to take a victory lap.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: It's been quite a week, hasn't it?
(CHEERING)
CLINTON: Well, thank you all so much. I am absolutely delighted to be here. As some of you may know, I had a pretty long day yesterday.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: With me now is CNN commentator, Michael Smerconish, host on "Smerconish," Saturday mornings here at CNN.
What a week for her.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: She had a long day yesterday, but I bet she wishes it could have gone longer. The longer she sits there, the better it is for her. She probably hopes they will keep her until midnight.
BALDWIN: How does she main than this kind of momentum we have seen over the last 10 days?
SMERCONISH: She maintains this kind of momentum by having Joe Biden out of the race. That was a huge Benefit for her. I don't know he could have defeated her for the nomination, but I think he could have given her a run for the money. I believe that he was in it until the last minute because I looked at that speech, and if you took out the first three paragraphs, it was a campaign speech. And he disagreed with her and left that in the speech and disagreed with her as far as Republicans as enemies. And that's an important issue.
BALDWIN: On that, this is Hillary Clinton giving Joe Biden a shout- out at two different events today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: He saved our economy from what could have been a great depression. He rescued the auto industry. He began the crackdown on Wall Street abuses. And on top of that, he helped 18 million more Americans get health insurance through the Affordable Care Act. (APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: So I agree with what Vice President Biden said the other day in the Rose Garden, Democrats should be proud of that record of achievement and we should defend it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So it started with what she said at the debate. Then it seemed like the Joe Biden swipe at Hillary Clinton regarding the enemies comment, and now we hear that. Is this all about an endorsement?
SMERCONISH: It would seem that Joe Biden will not be elected president of the United States, but by acclamation, the man is now a statesman. I thought that was the rose garden ceremony and the remarks he made. So, yes, I think she really wants to make sure he's firmly in this and not just lip speak.
BALDWIN: Become to the hearing yesterday, I watched a lot of it. I'm sure you did as well. It was 11 hours on Capitol Hill. There was fighting, a lot of theater. You said it was great for Hillary Clinton. She wished it had gone on longer. Any moments in particular?
SMERCONISH: The moment in particular for me, I think, was the moment that it ended. I went to "The Drudge Report." "The Drudge Report" was about her coughing.
(CROSSTALK)
SMERCONISH: I was curious and left CNN and went over to FOX ever so briefly. They weren't even on it for the last --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: They bailed out half way through. They have been on this for three years.
SMERCONISH: Right. That was the telltale sign. If the catnip wasn't good until the end, they were off this, that's how you know. And one more indication. Paul Ryan yesterday says, OK, I'm in for speaker. If the GOP were having a hell of a day, he would have waited until today or Monday, and he didn't do that. Those three signs tell you all you need to know, spin aside.
BALDWIN: See you tomorrow morning.
SMERCONISH: Thanks for that.
BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish, thank you so much.
9:00 in the morning. Don't miss this man here on CNN.
Also, don't miss "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper Sunday morning. Marco Rubio is going to be on "State of the Union" along with Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. Sunday, 9:00 eastern here on CNN.
[14:50:01] Just ahead, for the first time since the Black Lives Matter movement was born, President Obama is now speaking out saying all lives matter, but -- details, next.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest problem this century is sustainable energy production and consumption. You better make electricity in a sustainable way. We either solve that or there will be a huge economic collapse towards the end of the century independent of any environmental impact.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Electricity is costly. And it is vulnerable. So what happens when the grid goes out? Bloom Energy is not the grid, but they power big companies helping them transition off the grid with the fuel cell base energy they call a bloom box.
K.R. SRIDHAR, CEO, BLOOM ENERGY: What the Bloom Box does is it takes the fuel and converts that into electricity with no in between steps.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: K.R. came up with the idea while working at NASA. He was trying to figure out how to get astronauts power and oxygen on Mars when he stumbled upon a chemical reaction that put off a lot of energy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a fuel cell. You'll notice it's got two sides.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera):
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to put these plates on top like that and then we'll put another one of those cells in another plate in another cell and stack them up.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're staking them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then the voltages add up and I start to have enough voltage to power homes, buildings.
SRIDHAR: Just as a personal computer, the personalized electricity generator is going to change the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:54:53] BALDWIN: For the first time since the movement was born, President Obama is defending Black Lives Matter. While speaking at a White House criminal justice forum last night, the president says the movement is not anti-law enforcement. Rather President Obama says it gives voice to problems happening only in the African-American community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think everybody understands all lives matter. The reason that the organizers use the phrase "Black Lives Matter" was not because they were suggesting nobody else's lives matter. Rather what they were suggesting was there's a specific problem that is happening in the African-American community that's not happening in other communities. And that is a legitimate issue that we've got to address.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
# I want to bring in Joshua DuBois, the White House former director of religious affairs under President Obama.
Joshua, welcome back.
JOSHUA DUBOIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS: Great to be on with you, Brooke. Thanks for having me.
BALDWIN: You've got it.
So some members of the Black Lives Matter movement. They have been calling on the president for quite some time. Why do you think he chose last night as the first time to truly address this?
DUBOIS: Listen, he's been addressing the underlying issues of race in our country and bias and criminal justice reform for a long time. It was just common sense remarks from President Obama yesterday and just because a lot of people don't agree with him, doesn't make it any less true. For far too long, we have not acted as if Black Lives Matter as other lives. Jordan Davis in 2012 killed for playing music too loudly, to nine African-Americans in a church in Charleston a few months ago. We see over and over again that Black Lives, unfortunately, have not mattered as other lives. We heard the president speak to that issue and I'm glad he did it.
BALDWIN: Let me push you from one perspective. This Milwaukie County Sheriff David Clark, he is notorious for opposing the Black Lives Matter movement. He called Obama a, quote, "criminal sympathizer." Your response?
DUBOIS: Listen, that rhetoric is so overheated and far out there that I'm not sure it deserves that much of a response. I think we'll never move to a better place on race in this country if we don't acknowledge basic historical and contemporary facts. If you ask the families of Jordan Davis and the Charleston nine and others, if we have issue of devaluing African-Americans there's no way that you can deny that. It's not just President Obama supporting this issue of racial justice and reconciliation. Right now you have the United States Senate moving forward on criminal justice reform legislation today. So clearly there's some Senators who believe. Black Lives Matter too. You have conservatives, police officers, others rallying around reform. I think that's a good thing.
BALDWIN: Yeah. I know Jordan Davis's mother personally and someone who lost two loved ones in the Charleston church. They would agree with you. DUBOIS: Yeah.
BALDWIN: Quickly, Black Lives Matter, we know they have petitioned the DNC to organize a totally separate Black Lives Matter Democratic debate. The DNC compromised, said we'll give you a town hall. They say that's not enough. Some of the candidates have taken this issue head on, not all. When will they? How will they?
DUBOIS: I think we deserve to have a full conversation on issues of race and bias in this country. Whether that happens at a town hall or debate, I will let the parties figure that out. In the upcoming debates, they should talk about race. This issue has been with us since before our founding. We're talking about 1619, Jamestown, all the way until today. Until we get with the program and say that we're never going to solve this, if we don't have a conversation, we'll keep dealing with it over and over again.
BALDWIN: Joshua DuBois, thank you so much.
DUBOIS: Thank you.
BALDWIN: You got it. See you next time.
Meanwhile, new details on the biggest hurricane in history, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
[15:00:12] BALDWIN: Breaking news here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
