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Flood Washes Away Freight Train In Texas; Twenty Three Million Americans Under Flash Flood Watch; Trump: I Have To Work Harder In Iowa; Sanders Slips In Iowa Poll Before Key Fundraiser; Donald Trump Speaks in Florida; A Look at the Trial of Mobster Vincent Asaro . Aired 12-1p ET

Aired October 24, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Hello again and thanks so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. We begin with this breaking news, 23 million Americans are now under the threat of a major flooding event triggered by remnants of Hurricane Patricia, which is now a tropical depression.

You're looking at pictures from Navarro County, Texas where floods washed out the train tracks, derailing this freight train full of cement and as far as we understand, there is some diesel fuel that is also in that water now.

So far, there has been 20 inches of rain dumped on parts of Texas. The rising waters have also stranded drivers, who needed to be rescued from some cars.

Ed Lavandera is joining us now from very close to that train derailment. Ed, last we spoke, you seemed to be, I don't know, it seemed maybe less than a mile away from that train derailment. What's happening there now?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): (Inaudible)

WHITFIELD: OK, we're going to try that again at another time, because clearly we don't have a good signal there. But Ed Lavendera, the last report, he was very close to that location of the train derailment, but describing it's very difficult to get to because of all of this water as a result of a flash flood that took place there.

There was a creek nearby, but now it looks like a lake, surrounding the derailed train and there were two conductors onboard that train when it simply went off the tracks and then toppled over. The two were amazingly able to swim to higher ground.

They are OK but there are rescue crews and emergency responders there in the area. At some point, they've got to figure out how to get to that derailed train to upright it.

So let's talk more about what's taking place there. Brian Blake, from the Texas Task Force One is with us. So, Brian, give us an idea, overall, about these water rescues that have had to happen, as it relates to this train.

We know the conductors are safe. They got to higher ground, they're OK. But what about all of these cars that have been submerged in high water and rescues have had to take place?

BRIAN BLAKE, TEXAS TASK FORCE ONE (via telephone): -- when they see high water, as with the train, you're not sure the roadway, even though you may be familiar with the road, if the roadway has eroded underneath that water, that's why it's so important for folks, even though they may be familiar with an area, to turn around and not drive into that water.

WHITFIELD: Tell me about some of the rescues that did take place overnight, because I understand you all were very busy.

BLAKE: We were very busy. We're supporting jurisdictions across the state, including those in Navarro County, and had over, approximately 22 water rescues, both residential and from some automobiles.

WHITFIELD: All right, it's pretty tricky, because at night, where visibility is poor, sometimes folks don't even know that they're about to, you know, drive into high water.

But by daylight now, I understand from our Ed Lavendera and also an affiliate reporter, who said, there were people who were driving about -- they're out and about. But what are you asking people to do in terms of identifying danger before finding themselves in it.

BLAKE: Well, if folks don't need to be out today, certainly stay home, stay safe, and don't get out in this type of weather. This is going to be a dynamic event over the weekend that's going to be transitioning from north to south, throughout Texas and so, with the high amounts of rainfall, folks could easily get in trouble very quickly.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brian Blake, thanks so much. Great advice, again. Turn around, don't drown, that is a slogan, very easy for people to remember. When they see that standing water, don't try to go through it, simply turn around. Brian Blake, thanks so much.

Let's try again now with Ed Lavendera back in Navarro County, not far from that train derailment site. Still raining there, Ed item describe the conditions overall?

LAVANDERA: It is, water and camera equipment, causing all sorts of problems. We apologize. We are just a few hundred yards away from the train derailment. And you can see there, that is the front end of it.

It was southbound, heading out that way, and from what we can understand, what we've been told, the water just came up very quickly around the tail line, 64 cars in all. We've been told what it's carrying is cement.

[12:05:10] So it doesn't seem to be a whole lot of concern about the environmental impact of the cargo that was being carried in this train, but you can tell, I mean, it goes a long way, just back over this way and it kind of goes behind the tree line and behind that berm.

So much of the train, we can't see, but from the cars that we can see, everything has just kind of toppled over to the left. And Fredricka, really, the water has kind of gone down a little bit, and the rain has slowed down significantly since the peak in the overnight hours.

But the rush of water, this is overflowing from a creek back over there in the distance and we've seen this. We're about a quarter mile away from Interstate 45. Just on the other side, all of this water is flowing this way.

And it is rushing water that is intensely moving, and the current is really strong. So this has gone down quite a bit, several feet already, since the rail cars toppled over.

But I can tell you that a lot of this water, even though it seems very still where we're standing here on the bank, as close as we can get, out there, and as the water is moving away and down through the channel and making its way out to wherever it needs to go, that water is moving with a great deal of intensity.

So you can imagine the force of the water that was needed to topple over a 64-rail car train that was carrying cement. And that rushing water was able to topple all over that over. That gives you a good sense of how strong the currents and how strong these waters can move.

WHITFIELD: Indeed, great points there. Thanks so much, Ed Lavandera. Appreciate that.

Let's check in with our Jennifer Gray. Jennifer, when we talk about possibly 10 more inches of rain for certain areas, to, you know, really with inundated by, and right now, live pictures outside of Jacksonville. You're seeing one of our producers there correspond.

That's the Jacksonville location where there's going to be a Donald Trump rally. All right, we're going to take a short break. We're having a bit of a technical difficulty here, but this is live television. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:10:17]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back to the NEWSROOM. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. At any moment, you see those flags waving right there with the water as the backdrop. That's Jacksonville, Florida, and at any moment, Donald Trump is expected to take to the podium right there at a rally.

He is in second place for the first time since June in two key Iowa polls. Ben Carson has seized the lead with 28 percent of Republican voters. Trump has been downplaying the results of two Iowa polls that show him slipping to second place behind Ben Carson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a breaking story. Donald Trump has fallen to second place behind Ben Carson. We informed Ben, but he was sleeping.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: That was Donald Trump last night in Miami. Today, he will be in Jacksonville at this moment. There's our Alina Machado at the rally. They're very excited about him.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fredricka, there's definitely a lot of excitement here among Trump supporters. And we did see people, as soon as they opened up some of these gates, run to the front of the stage to get the best spot possible.

Many of these people had been waiting in line for several hours. When our crew arrived here earlier this morning, there were already people lined up, waiting to get in. I'll get out of the way and show you the crowd here.

It is growing considerably. This is what we're seeing here, all these people eager to see Donald Trump, eager to hear what he has to say. And it's not just Republicans.

I did speak to a registered Democrat. She's a woman from Jacksonville, Florida. And she tells me that she's still on the fence about who she's going to support in this presidential campaign.

And that's why she decided to come out here. She wanted to see and hear Trump herself. So right now, we are waiting for Donald Trump to get up on stage. We know that he has arrived here, and everybody is just waiting to see him come up here and see what he has to say.

You know, you mentioned those two polls in Iowa, during last night's event in South Florida, he did refer to them, and it seems like he started to attack Ben Carson a bit. It will be interesting to see, Fredricka, if he does that this afternoon here.

WHITFIELD: All right, interesting too is this election of music, earlier it was "Sweet Home, Alabama," and now it's "Phantom of the Opera," I wonder if that's symbolic of anything as we await the arrival of Donald Trump. Alina, we'll check back with you in Jacksonville.

Trump also talked about the Iowa polls in a sit-down interview with CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" host, Jake Tapper. Jake asked Trump about his message to Iowa following these latest polls.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: I was really surprised to see it because three nights ago, I was in Iowa, we had a packed house. We had 4,000 people and it was a lovefest. And I've done really well with the Evangelicals and the Tea Party and everything. And I just don't understand the number, but you know what, I accept the number. It means I have to work a little bit harder in Iowa. I think it's just the same. I mean, I'm going to make our country great again.

We're going to do trade PACs that are incredible instead of like incompetent because what we have right now with China and Japan and with everybody is just incredible and nobody can do -- nobody will be able to do what I do in terms of making our country wealthy again.

So we can do all the things we want to do including the military and the vets and taking care of people. So, I'm just going to have to work a little bit harder in Iowa. I was very surprised to see the numbers.

You know, I had a lead and it sort of flip-flopped a little bit with Ben Carson. And I like Ben, but he cannot do with trade what I do with trade. He cannot do with a lot of things like I do. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You two disagree on a number of issues. Immigration is one of them. Will you start contrasting your position with his more?

TRUMP: I think so. You just bring up one. He's very, very weak on immigration and I'm very strong on immigration. And when I made the announcement, I took a lot of heat and everybody found out I was right.

With beautiful Kate in San Francisco being killed by somebody that just walked into the country, at least five times, they say five, but it was probably much more than that.

And the veteran, a 66-year-old woman raped and killed in California three weeks ago and just by an illegal immigrant again. And so much, I mean, this is so much. And I brought it up, and Ben Carson's very, very weak on immigration.

He believes in amnesty strongly. He believes on citizenship, I mean, he's going to give citizenship to people who are here illegally and you can donate that. And you know, we disagree on other things also.

[12:15:06] But I think the big thing also is he's just not going to be able to do deals with China, to do deals with Japan. These countries are all ripping us like nobody has ever ripped us before.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And you can watch more of that interview with Donald Trump plus interviews with candidates Marco Rubio and Bernie Sanders, all of that on "STATE OF THE UNION" tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern. And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. In a matter of hours now, Senator Bernie Sanders will be speaking in advance of the Democratic Jefferson Jackson dinner tonight, and it comes can at a critical moment for the Democratic socialist.

A new poll this week shows him slipping against Hillary Clinton in Iowa, but he told supporters at the rock and the burn concert that winning Iowa is key to his strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we win here in Iowa, and I think we've got a good chance to do it. And if we win in New Hampshire, and I think we've got a good chance to do that, we have a road to victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is following the Sanders campaign in Des Moines. So Sunlen, what's up today there?

[12:20:08] SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fred, this is certainly a high-stakes day for Bernie Sanders here in Iowa. He does have a lot to prove.

And frankly, the momentum is just not on his side at the moment here, as you referenced, Clinton pulling ahead by a good margin in two new polls out here in Iowa this week, also coming off of a very good week herself in front of the Benghazi committee.

So for Bernie Sanders, this weekend in Iowa, it's all about trying to reclaim some of the attention, refocus the attention back to him and back to his campaign. And that starts today with a big rally here in Des Moines in advance of the JJ dinner.

He will then lead a march from this rally site here over a bridge, they will go over the Des Moines River, which is behind me, and then walk into the entrance hall.

Now, when he comes out on that stage at the JJ dinner, he will be walking out to the song "The Revolution Starts Here." That is the anthem for the Occupy Wall Street Movement, one that's played often at their campaign events.

But clearly they're trying to send the message with this walkout song, trying to tap into that message of revolution, the one that's been such a big part of his campaign from the start. But the key is showing that energy and enthusiasm. That's what the Sanders campaign is going to try here to do.

WHITFIELD: I wonder, too, Sunlen, if Bernie Sanders has plans to try to reach a difference audience, particularly once he, you know, unleashes his speech at the Jefferson Jackson dinner, because we know historically it's this dinner where the tide could turn for any candidate.

SERFATY: Absolutely, and if you talk to the Sanders campaign, nearly every other sentence, they reference this being such a pivotal moment in past campaigns and for past candidates, referencing the 2007 dinner, when then Senator Obama did really well, and really was able to differentiate himself very well from then Senator Clinton.

So, they're clearly trying and going for that same sort of moment. But the question is will he be able to do it? Sanders has been writing his speech since Tuesday, working on it, on and off in Washington, D.C., and he's on the campaign trail, but that will be what to watch.

Will this be a pivotal moment for him? Can he tap into that same sort of turning point that Obama has been able to do in the past?

WHITFIELD: All right, many eyes will be watching. Thanks so much, Sunlen Serfaty there in Des Moines.

All right, back now to our breaking news, major flooding in Texas washing a train right off its tracks, the latest on the rescues coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:25]

WHITFIELD: All right, this breaking news out of Oklahoma, where a car careened into a crowd of people watching the Oklahoma State University homecoming parade in Stillwater. The university spokeswoman says the accident happened at the corner of Hall and Fame Streets and Main Street.

An eyewitness says he was watching the parade with his daughter when all of a sudden a gray sedan who was speeding hit a number of people watching the parade.

He tells CNN that one person was bleeding from her head and had severe cuts to her legs. No word on how many people may have been hurt at that moment, but we'll bring you more information as we get it there.

All right, thousand, back to the campaign trail. There he is, Donald Trump at a rally in Jacksonville, Florida. Let's listen in.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But they have now super pacs. These are supers, superdupers. They call them superduper pacs. And they put up millions and millions of dollars in these pacs.

[12:30:13] And those pacs control the candidates, OK? They totally control. Carson is controlled by his pac. Bush is controlled by his pac. Rubio is controlled by his pac. And he needs a lot of water on top of anything else. Did you ever see a guy sweat like Rubio? I've never seen anything like it.

But they're controlled by their pacs. And what happened is, many pacs were set up Trump. One of them had the art of the deal pac. Another pac, I turn on television and I see these guys. And, you know what, they look OK, who knows?

But they say, "Oh, we love Trump, we love trump, and we wanted this," and they want to raise money. I don't know what happens to that money once it's raised. I know too much about business to think positively.

So I can just see one of these guys who doesn't have 10 cents and all of a sudden he raises $2 million under a super pac. Hey I would love it if it would send to me, but I still don't want it.

But I can imagine where the money goes. But worse are the super pacs that are setup for candidates where they go out and run campaigns, like, if you look, honestly, Carson in Iowa, being run by his super pacs. Bush, all over.

Bush now has got to cut back because think of this, think of this. Here's a guy who wants to run our country and he can't even run his own campaign. So think of it.

And, you know what, he's cutting back big, he's cutting back 40 percent and everybody's agreed to take a 40 percent cut all of his people. I mean, I have like a few people, what do you need these people for?

In fact, I'm very proud of something. I'm putting up, and I'll be putting up a lot of money. Don't worry, it's not cheap to do this. But I've so far I've put up less money than anybody else and I'm number one and other guys are -- no, think of it, think of it.

So I put up less money than anybody else and I'm number one. Other people have spent 25, 30, I think they reported the other day, I put up $2 million, I think.

Can you -- that's a good deal, right? 2 million and you're number one. I could trade that to one of these other candidates that have spent many times that money and they're at zero, zero.

You have a couple of them, zero with an arrow pointing less, which means less than zero and I don't even know what that means, but if you think about it, because that's what we have to do for our country. I'm not doing that in a braggadocios way, I don't care, I'll put as much money as I need. I'm not going anywhere that I can tell you.

I'm going to stay. I'm meeting the most incredible people. People like you. I mean I'm meeting the most incredible people.

So what happens is, I put up, and there was a big story. Hillary is like in $32 million. Bush is in for a fortune.

Rubio's running out of money. He's got no money. He's running out. He spend much more than me, he's running out of money. And not doing well.

All of these people are spending money. And what I'm saying is that wouldn't it be nice if we had a country that would spend the least and be number one, think of it, wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be nice?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE/FEMALE: Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

TRUMP: You know, it's very funny, I told my campaign people, I have very good people, nice people, great people. But I said, "You know, I don't like to talk about how little I put up, because it sounds bad." They say, "No, actually, it sounds good."

But the truth is -- and I have to say another anything, when you lease a plane, you have to pay it back. So a lot of the money I spent a lease that I have to pay it back because the campaign has a lease. You have rules and regulations.

So we go to the FBC, and we said "What do you do here, why do you have take market value, blah, blah, blah, blah." You know, it's all the process, and you pay it back.

So a lot of the money that I'm putting up, I'm paying and then I'm paying myself back. Can you believe it?

I might be into this sucker for nothing because they've never had anybody that owned a Boeing 757 before. It's a little bit of an unusual thing. They've never had it.

[12:34:59] And by the way, Boeing now is building in China a massive plant. Well think of it, they're building a massive plant, because China just put in a big order of planes and they said, "You're going to built a massive plant and we're, by the way, going to take all of your technology." That didn't bother me, because they take it anyway, you know, they take it anyway whether you give it to them or not.

But China is demanding that Boeing and everybody else build massive plants. So there's no free trade, folks, there's no free trade. There's free trade for us. I call it stupid trade.

And I'm a free trader. The problem with free trade is that you need really smart people representing you because we are getting ripped off like you wouldn't believe. We're being ripped off like you wouldn't believe.

So I'm going to finish a couple of things and we're going to talk about trade, we're going to talk about illegal immigration. We're going to talk about Obamacare.

Think about Obamacare your premiums are up 45, 55 percent, your deductibles, you have to die before you get any money and then you're not going to get it.

You can't get it -- I know a friend, he said, I had four major operations. He still doesn't qualify. You can't get it. It's a disaster, the $5 billion website, think of it.

Nobody talks about it anymore, you know, the problem is everybody forgets quickly. You know, the public and for some reason, they talk about an attention span of a couple of weeks. I'm not going to let people forget. I'm not going to let people forget, think about it.

And the reason, in all fairness to everybody, the reason you forget is because we have so many other problems. We never win. We just don't win. We never win anymore. We're going to have so many victories. If I win, we're going to have so many victories, we're going to win. We're going to win against China. We're going to win against Japan. We're going to win against Mexico.

And by the way, I love the Mexican people, but their leaders are ripping off our country. They are ripping off our country.

We're going to win against Brazil and Vietnam. We're going to win I can take anybody in this massive audience, and I can say where do you originally come from, your parents, your grandparents. And they'll give me a name and I'll say that country is ripping us off. Everybody is ripping us off. Every country is ripping us off, every single country.

So we're not going to let it happen anymore. We don't win on trade. We can't even beat ISIS, think of it, we can't beat ISIS.

So we are going to strengthen our military. General Odierno. Nobody is going to mess with us, nobody. Nobody is going to mess with us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, Donald Trump there in Jacksonville, Florida, and talking to a very large contingent of supporters who have turned out there. And you heard him also make a swipe or two at one of his competitors, Jeb Bush.

Well, you know, Jeb Bush had just recently made news, talking about cutting his paycheck for some of the staffers by 40 percent and you heard Donald Trump use that as an opportunity to be very critical of him. But earlier in South Carolina, today, Jeb Bush used fighting words of his own to go after Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEB BUSH (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If this election is about how we're going to fight to get nothing done, then I don't want anything -- I don't want any part of it. And I don't want to be elected president to sit around and see gridlock just become so dominant that people literally are going to decline in their lives. That is not my motivation.

I've got a lot of really cool things that I could do other than sit around, being miserable, listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. That is a joke. Elect Trump if you want that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, Jeb Bush this morning taking a swipe at Donald Trump who right now is in Jacksonville, Florida, at a rally there.

We'll have much more news straight ahead right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [12:42:53] WHITFIELD: All right, it's a case made for the movie, The Heist, millions of dollars in cash and jewels stolen, mobsters with names like Skinny Dom, Vinny Gorgeous, and Tommy Shots. And it's playing out this week at a New York courthouse.

The crime at the center of it all was the inspiration for the movie Goodfellas, the Lufthansa heist at JFK at 1978.

Now decades later, the alleged former mob boss, 80-year-old Vincent Asaro is on trial.

Jean Casarez has been following this riveting testimony.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fred, it's always said, oh, it's only in the movies, but prosecutors now in trial, in New York, are saying, "No, this is real life."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be a good summer.

CASAREZ: The blockbuster 1990 motion picture was Goodfellas, day-to- day life inside a New York Mafia crew, a crew that hit a criminal jackpot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a daring pre-dawn raid at the Lufthansa cargo terminal at Kennedy Airport. The FBI says $2 million or that already police say $4 million...

CASAREZ: It was one of the largest heists in this country's history, the multimillion dollar robbery of cash and jewels at Lufthansa's air cargo terminal at New York's JFK airport in 1978.

And now for the first time one of those fellas is being prosecuted in New York City for murder, racketeering and robbery.

80-year-old defendant Vincent Asaro an alleged captain in the Bonanno crime family isn't portrayed in the movie, because at the time, his identity wasn't known. But prosecutors are portraying Asaro as the mastermind of the crime, with now deceased Jimmy "the Gent" Burke, portrayed in the movie by Robert De Niro.

Star witness for this prosecution 37 years later the defendants own cousin, Gaspare Valenti who wore a wire and recorded Asaro.

A member of the crime family too, who turned to help prosecutors after believing he didn't get enough of the loot.

[12:45:02] Valini was one of the masked gunmen who actually stormed into the airport warehouse and help take millions out of the vault in cash and jewelry and got away in this van.

As Asaro could be seen in court saying "Liar," Valeni testified he remembers packages of money that contained $125,000 in $100 bills, burlap sacks of gold chains, crates of watches, diamonds, emeralds, and stones. Total estimated value, $6 million and none of it was ever found. Asaro's former defense attorney said he didn't do it.

GERAL MCMAHON, FORMER ASARO ATTORNEY: Pretty much all the people that did it got murdered. So the fact that my client didn't get murdered would suggest that he didn't have anything to do with it.

CASAREZ: Prosecutors also say defendant Asaro conspired and murdered by strangling with a dog chain Paul Katz in 1969 after it was believed he was cooperating with law enforcement.

In June 2013, investigators found remnants of Katz remained embedded in a basement floor where prosecutors believe Asaro helped to hide the body. Four other defendants allegedly play in major roles including Asoro's son have already made deal with the government. But the good fellow prosecutors believe is the real deal is Asoro. And they hope to finally put him behind bars and at the same time bring justice to victims from generations of crimes never solved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Wiretap recordings are going to play a large role in this trial, and the current witness, the cousin of the defendant, started recording him in 2008. And an excerpt from 2011 is where the defendant says on tape, you know, we didn't get our fair share of this. Jimmy "The Gent" Burke took it all. The witnesses asked, what's he talking about. Well, he's talking about money and jewels from the Lufthansa Heist in 1978. The trial is set to continue for the next four to five weeks. Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.

WHITFIELD: All right, fascinating, right? Well, we're going to hear from our legal guys to weigh in on this story. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:51:31] WHITFIELD: All right. CNN has announced the top ten heroes, and we're introducing you to them again, as you decide who will get your vote for hero of the year. Monique Pool has rescued and rehabilitated more than 600 sloths in the small South American country of Suriname.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONIQUE POOL, CNN TOP TEN HEROES 2015: Saving the sloths for me is not just about saving the sloths, it's what about that they stand for. It's about losing habitat. It's about importance of environmental protection, for everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Learn more about Monique and all of our CNN heroes at CNNHeroes.com. And don't forget you can vote for your favorite one once a day, every day.

All right. Back now to the story we were discussing moments ago. This big trial, sort of goodfellas on trial. Prosecutors say Vincent Asaro is a former mob boss who was involved in the Lufthansa Heist back in 1978. Let's bring in our legal guys. Avery Friedman a Civil Rights Attorney and Law Professor in Cleveland. Good to see you.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Richard Herman, a New York Criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Las Vegas. Good to see as well.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. So Avery, we heard from the attorney of Asaro, who said that everyone except Asaro was murdered and speaks to his innocence. Is that the best in their defense?

FRIEDMAN: If that's it, Fredricka, Asaro's in a world of trouble. The fact is there's wiretaps, these all Mafioso guys are now coming forward because they're angry, they're bitter because they didn't feel they got the money, and now instead of going to private clubs, they're meeting at Dunkin' Donuts over a cup of coffee. And the idea of the oath of silence Fredricka blow up like a tick on Dracula. So, this evidence is overwhelming and I don't know how Asaro gets out of this.

WHITFIELD: And then Richard we're talking about a cousin who decided to, you know, spill the beans because he didn't get enough of the loot. That's what we learned in Jean Casarez's, you know, story. Is that going to be kind of, I guess, the really crux of the case? That testimony and the wiretaps?

HERMAN: You know, Fred, it's not that the defendants are angry they didn't get their right share. Is what the problem here, Fred, is that it's a RICO prosecution. And the federal sentencing guidelines are so onerous in criminal RICO prosecutions that if you get convicted, you're basically looking at 20 years plus, in prison.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: So they go to a guy like Valenti, who was clearly one of the masterminds and say it to him, if you ever want to see the light of day again, you've got to be a cooperating witness, you've got plead guilty to a felony, then get up there, tell the jury all the big, bad, sensational things that happened.

FRIEDMAN: Which he did.

HERMAN: And (inaudible) wait and now we've got this guy over here, Asaro, we're going to make him the mastermind and you have to tell us what we want to hear about him. And if you do a good job on him, we will then tell the judge you should be able to get out of prison and see the light of day again. That's what's going on here Fred.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

HERMAN: This guy, Valenti was top gun, he was the guy, he was the mastermind. And he saw everything, all the major players around the picture now and this 80-year-old Asaro, I don't know what his past was, but let's not focus on Lufthansa for him. There may be other issues. One thing, though, Fred, the wiretaps, that's devastating evidence. The wiretaps... FRIEDMAN: Fredricka.

HERMAN: ... devastating

WHITFIELD: OK, so Avery, what parts do you disagree with? I saw a lot of head-shaking, no, and then some, yeah.

[12:55:03] FRIEDMAN: The main guy was Jimmy "The Gent," who's been gone for two years. The idea of spinning it that the government is spinning it to make Asaro the main guy, he was. He was capo. He was a key figure in the entire structure. So the idea that these people, you know, the witnesses were not, I think is silly. The fact is that it's witness after witness. Tommy DeSimone, then you got obviously Valenti, you have load of people in addition to the wiretaps. So whether it's RICO or now, they got this guy death bang and if it's 20 years the guys is 80 years old, 80 years old anyhow. So it doesn't really matter. He'll be gone.

WHITFIELD: And why now? I mean, we are talking about a very long time. And clearly it takes time to, you know, gather evidence, et cetera, but, you know, Richard, is this really the last straw, the last potential opportunity that prosecutors have to try to get to the bottom of this heist?

HERMAN: That's essentially it, Fred. You know, it's been an unsolved crime for many, many years. A lot of frustration in the government and, you know, as time goes on, people's recollection of events start to change. People start to talk a little bit more as senility focuses in on them and they want to talk about the old days and the good old days. And that's what happens, you know, you get these guys that start to recant or start to reveal certain information and the government is just jumping into it and making a big spectacle out of this (inaudible). I don't know if could work on this one. They can call the government so it played around. They call the government.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: All right. And then Avery, what's your point? Because it's hard to hear both of you at the same time because the signals cross.

FRIEDMAN: Well, the fact is that it wasn't the bureau, it wasn't the FBI or the department of justice, Fredricka, it was these angry and bitter old Mafioso that were calling the bureau when they ran out of money back in 2008 and 2009. I mean, it was stagnant until these guys started calling the FBI. And that's, finally, after putting it together. We have this prosecution going on in a federal court in Brooklyn.

WHITFIELD: All right.

FRIEDMAN: As Jean said in her report, we have three, four weeks to go.

WHITFIELD: OK. So five seconds left on that Richard, if possible, because I see your lips flapping and you got stuff to say. We don't to get to hear you now.

FRIEDMAN: That's right.

HERMAN: ... nothing to do with Lufthansa. In order for him to get out of prison, he's got to tell them everything so he makes a big story about Lufthansa. And that's why we're in this situation.

FRIEDMAN: Oh, got it. All right we heard that, see. Richard Herman, Avery Friedman, thanks so much, gentleman. Always love talking to you, appreciate it. All right. We'll be right back after this.

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