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Three Dead As Car Hits Homecoming Parade Crowd; Millions of Americans Under Flash Flood Watch; Jeb Bush Announces Campaign "Adjustment"; President Calls For Changes in the Classroom. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 24, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:01:13] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, 4:00 Eastern, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you from New York.

We begin with breaking news this hour out of Oklahoma. A car crashes into a crowd of spectators watching the Oklahoma State University homecoming parade. We know at this hour three people have been killed, 22 more injured. Sara Ganim, following this story for us. How many critically wounded?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, police just updated, actually, you know, eight people critically injured, seven of them had to be air lifted from the scene, Poppy. They just updated to nine more in serious condition and 17 more who were what they call walking wounded, also hurt when this accident happened and police are now saying this is a DUI-related crash.

They've arrested 25-year-old Adacia Chambers, a Stillwater, Oklahoma resident. She's now in jail, facing DUI charges. On the scene, we can see from the pictures here. There's a crash reconstruction team there now trying to figure out exactly how this happened. They are asking for more witnesses, they are asking for any video evidence that people who are there at this parade, hundreds of people gathered.

This was supposed to be a joyous event, Poppy, and now it turned into unfortunately this tragedy, this tragic fatal accident and they are trying to piece together exactly how this happened. All we know at this point is she came down a road that was still open, approached a police barricade, it was a motorcycle that was parked, the police officer was not on the motorcycle, plowed through and into the crowd.

HARLOW: The university, what is the university saying right now given this was supposed to be their joyous day, have their big game, now what?

GANIM: University president talking about how difficult of a decision it was for them to hold the game today anyway, just started a few minutes ago at the beginning of the game they did hold a moment of silence in honor of the victims, but he did go through with holding the game and he talked a little bit about how this day turned into something that was so awful for the people gathered there. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: The Oklahoma State homecoming parade is probably one of the most wholesome, happy events in the country, and to have it fouled like this and these victims, it's a terrible tragedy. We reach out and embrace the victims and their families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GANIM: We're expecting some more information to come in the next few hours, possibly overnight. Police say this investigation could take several days, Poppy, before they are able to complete it and figure out exactly how and what happened here.

HARLOW: Absolutely tragic, three lives lost and many more in critical condition. Thank you, Sara, very much.

Meantime, we are tracking what was Hurricane Patricia, it quickly weakened once it hit the mountainous terrain in Mexico, but major flooding which derailed - look at that, derailed that train in Navarro County, Texas, remains a threat to millions of Americans. That is because heavy rain from the tropical depression that was Patricia continues to fall.

24 hours ago you were hearing about Patricia being the most powerful category 5 storm ever recorded in the western hemisphere, but it weakened just as it made landfall last night in northwestern Mexico. Mexico's president says there are no reports of major damage there, but in Navarro County, Texas, disaster officials are worried about even more flooding. That's where we find Ed Lavandera with more details. Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The rainfall continues here in Texas and the rainfall totals are simply staggering. We are near the town of Corsicana, where over the course of the last day and a half we've seen nearly 20 inches of rain fall here in this area, and that is why this is really been one of the more harder hit areas.

This is a wide open field. There should not be water here, this dirt road washed out essentially and that is the site of the train derailment that happened several hours ago.

[16:05:00]

Two men had to be rescued from the front of that train, they are in good condition, but what is really incredible to think about is that those 64 cars, we are told, were filled with cement, and that the flood waters here and the rushing power was able to knock and tumble over all of that weight. 64 train cars filled with cement just toppled over by the rushing flood waters that really gives you a sense of the magnitude and the power of the water that you're dealing with.

As I mentioned, rainfall totals here have been staggering here in the Corsicana area, nearly 20 inches in just a day and a half and it's not over yet as Hurricane Patricia, the remnants of it, continue to push through Mexico near the northeast and into Texas, over the course of the rest of the weekend. Real concern that all of that moisture will mix in with the system and the moisture that is already hanging over this state causing more flooding concerns, more toward the south in areas like Houston and Galveston.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Corsicana, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Ed, thank you very much. Tom Sater is in the CNN severe weather center. When you look, Tom, at how bad this was and how much worse it is now, who's in the path of all this flooding, next?

TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLGOIST: Unfortunately, it's the second punch for Texas, then the flooding rains go into Louisiana and Mississippi, which has been in drought, they could use it, they just don't need 20 inches of rain in two days.

If we back up a bit the warmest waters on our planet right now are off the coast of Mexico. They are calling this a miracle. The most rapidly developing tropical system in history going from a tropical storm to a category 5 makes landfall at category 5 and there are no fatalities being reported right now.

Mexican civil defense doing a great job evacuating the coastland. The port is now open in Puerta Vallarta, but it thread the needle, sparsely populated area, 100,000 in (INAUDIBLE), 400,000 live in Puerta Vallarta and no fatalities, coming right in between it.

Just as we've seen this become the most rapidly intensifying storm, it's now the most rapidly dying out storm. No storm at category 5 has dissipated to this. Now it's still a tropical depression, but if you look at Texas, the rain that they've had in the last two days has had absolutely nothing to do with Hurricane Patricia. That was a stalled out front, but we're getting more rain from this in the last two days in Texas than any rainfall with a landfalling category 5 hurricane.

It really is amazing, but the sad point is, you look at some of these numbers with water rescues from really Dallas down towards San Antonio, Powell, Texas 20 inches, Corsicana 18, and they could see much, much more. Maybe another 10 inches. So we do have flood watches and warnings. The coast is going to be important to watch now because now the moisture from Patricia is moving in.

And it's now meeting the moisture from this other system. You could almost see the radar as it converges on the coastline. We do have one flash flood emergency that's even higher than a flash flood warning and that's well down to the south,(INAUDIBLE) County, 87,000 live right on the Rio Grande River down there, extreme southern Texas, but there will probably be more.

First responders, rescue workers on alert, not just in Texas, but areas of Louisiana, which has been in drought, too, and Mississippi. In the last two weeks there have been a number of bush fires, Poppy, so this is extremely dry, but not anymore. Rivers are rising, we're going to find the possibility of the rain moving in to give us as mentioned, six to 10, maybe even isolated higher amounts, maybe this would us up to around 15 to 20 in parts of Louisiana, so it's not over yet.

HARLOW: Tom Sater, thank you very much.

We're going to take a quick break, when we come back, we're going to take you to the eye of all of it, where that hurricane hit land in Mexico. Our Martin Savidge there with the destruction, but luckily no lives lost. Stay with us. That's next.

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[16:12:10]

HARLOW: Aall right, we are getting some of the first pictures of the damage along Mexico's coast from that hurricane that was a cat 5, Martin Savidge is in La Manzanilla, Mexico and it is almost a miracle they are saying, right, Marty?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Poppy. I have to say that I didn't think that this town would still be here given all that we know about how powerful this storm was. I really thought it would be down to the foundations. But you can see there is a lot of damage, I won't kid you there. There is no power, there's no water, and there is heavy destruction, but the town is still here, the people actually are still going about their business, and amazingly, as you point out, no lives were lost, nobody was severely injured, and there are no reports of anyone missing here.

We actually had to follow the military as they cut their way into this area, so many trees, thousands and thousands across the main highway, so very slow, very painful process, but they are making their way here. Mark, (INAUDIBLE) is an American who lives here, you were here last night, Mark, first of all let me ask you how are you?

MARK SALYER, AMERIAN TOURIST: Good, thank you.

SAVIDGE: And your wife?

SALYER: She's fine.

SAVIDGE: So tell us, what did it feel like, what did it sound like?

SALYER: Well, obviously, it started off as a wind storm with rain. About 5:00 it really got intense, then about 7:00, southern portion of the storm hit, it got very intense. It was loud. You could hear trees snapping, things like that.

SAVIDGE: Were you scared?

SALYER: I was more excited than scared.

SAVIDGE: How was your wife?

SALYER: She was probably the opposite. She was a good sport. SAVIDGE: She was. Well, we're very glad to see you alive and well.

Your home did suffer a lot of damage, as did other homes. About 20 Americans or so that live here, and it's easy to see why on the water front there, it's absolutely beautiful, but again, we have to stress the damage here, especially in some of the other villages away from the water, which didn't have such good construction, they have suffered heavily, as well.

The power lines are down so badly, it's going to take a long time to be restored here. Again, miraculous. This storm headed for Puerta Vallarta, that would have been catastrophic. Clearly, heartbreak and devastation here, it would have been just unimaginable there, Poppy?

HARLOW: Absolutely, Martin Savidge, thank you so much. Live for us there in La Manzanilla, Mexico with probably the best outcome they could have hoped for from a cat 5 storm. We appreciate it.

I do want to turn to politics now, if you're a democrat, Des Moines, Iowa, the place to be today, Hillary Clinton, Martin O'Malley, Bernie Sanders, all there for the Iowa's annual democratic fundraising dinner in front of 6,000 people. That's where they'll speak tonight at the Jefferson Jackson dinner.

CNN political commentator democratic stategist Hilary Rosen with me from Washington. Thank you for being here.

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Poppy, how are you?

[16:15:00]

HARLOW: I'm good. I wanted your reaction to what David Axelrod tweeted this week after what has been quite a run for Hillary Clinton. He said "with polls looking up, question is, how Hillary Clinton deals with good news. She's generally been better with her back to the wall than as a front-runner, so what do you think?

I know you're a supporter, but as she goes into tonight, star power of Katy Perry and a concert with her, her husband, the former president with her, is she better when she's sort of fighting as the underdog?

ROSEN: Well, I think she's better when people are sort of focusing on her positives. I think it was a rough couple of months there when she couldn't get anyone in the media off the subject of her e-mails. You know, I hate to sort of reduce it to she's just better when she's an underdog.

I think really she's better when she's fighting on her own terms and I think her own terms really are sort of aggressively talking about policy, you know, and at the Benghazi hearing she was the smartest girl in the class. That's what she does well. She knows issues, and she ran circles around those members who tried to trip her up.

So I think, you know, Bernie Sanders has proven in the last few weeks to want to debate on the issues. I think that's comfortable ground for both of them, frankly, and I think the democrats are going to do well over the next couple of months as this, you know, contest kind of stays on the issues. That's better for her and, frankly, I think it's better for him, too.

HARLOW: Well, look, she, in no way has it locked in, right? You've got only a gap of seven points in Iowa between Sanders and Clinton. He's walking out tonight to the song "The Revolution is Now," sort of the theme song from Occupy Wall Street. This message of Bernie Sanders on income inequality hitting that again and again is helping him a lot. What can she say tonight to counter that enthusiasm that he has?

ROSEN: Yes, let me just add - you know, I'm a good democrat, but I'm going to dismiss Martin O'Malley in this conversation. This is really a contest now between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders has a huge amount of support and he has a lot of money. He's not going away any time soon.

Hillary Clinton does not have this nomination sewn up, so, you know, I think in large part that is because people, you know, our left in the party want more intensity around fighting for the little guy, so, you know, Bernie Sanders has the intensity, he doesn't exactly have the experience in executing on policy. Hillary Clinton has the experience executing on policy and a little less of the intensity. So, you know, somewhere in the middle those two are going to start shifting around and getting those two things right.

HARLOW: It's interesting when you take a look at this poll and you look at her trustworthiness among voters, Hillary Clinton, you said the media has been focusing on these e-mails over and over, but what the recent CNN poll shows is that 54 percent of people say the way that she handled her e-mails as secretary of state is an important indicator of her ability to serve as president. Clearly, not something she wants to talk about, but Hilary, does she need to talk about it perhaps in a different way to help close that gap and get more on the other side of that?

ROSEN: You know, I hope that the way she's been talking about her e- mails in the last couple of months as compared to when this thing started is giving people comfort. It certainly gives me comfort. She's been much more forthcoming about, you know, it was a mistake, it wasn't really something if she had to do it over again and was more thoughtful about it she would have wanted to do over again, wasn't anyone particularly telling her to do it or not do it. It was really a matter of convenience, and, you know, I know that every day she kind of regrets that has taken hold of part of this primary, but I also think that voters saw someone in the debates and someone at these hearings this week who is not just capable of being president, but who really can soar as president and, you know, I think that's what voters are going to focus on.

HARLOW: I thought it was really interesting in the "New York Times" this morning, Hilary, big Republican strategist Ed Rollins wrote "a long, dragged out battle on our side only makes it more difficult to get ready for Hillary Clinton." So we'll be watching.

Hillary Rosen, thank you, my friend.

ROSEN: Take care, Poppy. HARLOW: Be sure to catch "State of the Union" tomorrow morning. What a lineup again. Jake does it again, three exclusives, Marco Rubio, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, only right here on CNN, 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern.

Quick break, we're back on the other side.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... culinary journey that dates back thousands of year. (INAUDIBLE) which takes its name from an (INAUDIBLE) used by the Incas to grow potatoes.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) right here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For Francisco and his ancestors, the (INAUDIBLE) was born out of necessity. When harvest kept the (INAUDIBLE) farmers away from their homes.

[16:18:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: The weather is nice so we can (INAUDIBLE) the whole process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The (INAUDIBLE) is built using materials that are readily available.

Stones from the opening from the make shift oven while dirt (INAUDIBLE) are stacked closely and in a circular shape.

Branches of eucalyptus are used as (INAUDIBLE) build up the heat

(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) before at the beginning, the stones were brown, now they are very black, it's a good sign that we can add the potatoes and (INAUDIBLE) 30 meters. (INAUDIBLE) beans and other tubers such as (INAUDIBLE) are also added to the (INAUDIBLE). The oven eventually collapses, trapping the heat, and virtually burying the food, which is left to cook gently.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Now we can see, (INAUDIBLE) of the (INAUDIBLE), very smokey. We are getting the potatoes already cooked. One by one. We have to be very careful, because the stones are very, very hot. There is a lot of ash. It smells beautiful.

This is just fantastic for me. So back to our roots. I don't see this in Lima, not at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:27] HARLOW: Right now, the body of Master Sergeant Joshua Wheeler is back in the United States. The 39-year-old special operations soldier lost his life during a rescue mission in Iraq earlier this week. 70 Iraqi hostages were saved in that mission. He is the first American to die in combat in Iraq since November of 2011.

Let's talk more about this and the broader implications here. CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier is with me from Washington. It's interesting, Kimberly, you know that we learned a lot more this week about what U.S. troops in Iraq are authorized to do, frankly, without direct approval from the president. What do you mean?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, we thought that you could only do a manned raid like this with elite U.S. special operations forces going against an ISIS target if the president signed off on it. Now it turns out maybe that still applies inside Syria, but inside Iraq, they really have taken the gloves off the advise and assist mission, so the U.S. forces who go along with some of these local forces like they do in Afghanistan can also engage in the fighting if it's necessary. That's a pattern that I've heard a lot of complaints from U.S. special operations officials that they hadn't been able to follow before, so I think this does represent a change by the White House even though they are trying to say it's the same old thing.

HARLOW: Well, and it's interesting you also know when we look at the Pentagon's definition of combat, right, because there aren't supposed to be combat troops there, versus what the U.S. public generally determines as combat, they are very different and I want you to listen what Ash Carter said yesterday when asked about this mission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASH CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: When we find opportunities to do things that will effectively prosecute the campaign, we're going to do that, and this is an example of a case where we could do something, we alone had the capability to do it and I'm absolutely prepared to do that, so raids is one of those categories, and I suspect that we'll have further opportunities in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He says, Kimberly, I suspect we'll have further opportunities like this. When you're the family sitting at home who lost, you know, 39-year-old husband and father of four, what is the role of U.S. soldiers in Iraq now?

DOZIER: Well, at the same time, this is a U.S. soldier from an elite unit who when they deploy, they want to be in the fight or they want to be backing up the people that they are training, so this is their job to take these kind of risks. Nobody wants to be deployed in a battle that they think they are being held back and can't get at the bad guys, so I think you will see the White House said they were moving away from training Syrian rebels outside the country, that they were going to move towards working with people who were effective. They mentioned the Kurds. I think that's now what we're seeing here on the ground. They are going to do more of this, probably move more covert assets into the region, and when it does involve the loss of life, that's when we may hear about it.

HARLOW: Also, a very important topic, John Kerry, secretary of state John Kerry today meeting with Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, he also met with King (INAUDIBLE) of Jordan to discuss what can be done about this escalation in violence over the past month in Jerusalem, in the West Bank. A major move was made by Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he agreed to 24-hour surveillance at the disputed holy site in Jerusalem, which is at the crux of all of this tension. Secretary Kerry said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Today I hope we can begin to turn the page on this very difficult period. We have to join together in calling for an immediate end to violence. We must stress the importance of avoiding provocative actions and rhetoric, and we must work cooperatively. It's the only way to go forward, is to work cooperatively to restore calm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Work cooperatively to restore calm, but what about the broader hopes of peace? I mean, what can Secretary Kerry hope to achieve in the rest of his term?

DOZIER: Well, I think what they are doing right now, Secretary Kerry and his team are looking at small concrete steps they can take to end some of the violence right now.

[16:30:04] And one of the things that was feeding the violence were false reports in social media on both sides, but especially some of the Palestinian sites that were saying that Israelis, armed Israelis or religious groups were trying to move into the Temple Mount site and somehow desecrate it or violate it. The video feed will help fight that, but in terms of big sweeping peace talks or anything like that, I think the best Secretary Kerry can hope to do is set the two sides up to have a continuing dialogue that tamps down some of the violence and perhaps sets up a future administration to go back to peace talks.

HARLOW: So not this administration, but perhaps the next.

Kimberly Dozier, thank you, as always.

DOZIER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up next, to politics, Jeb Bush announcing a major campaign shakeup, cutting salaries, reducing his staff, and then tearing into Donald Trump. We will show you what he said today in South Carolina that brought the crowd to its feet. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARLOW: Well, after trailing in the polls for weeks, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush is cutting staff, he is cutting salaries across the board for his campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We made an adjustment in our campaign. That's what leaders do. There's been a new phenomenon in our party, the rise of candidates that have had no practical experience in politics, they are the frontrunners right now, they'll be held to account, just like all of us will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Meantime, two new polls showing Donald Trump is trailing Ben Carson in Iowa, quite a turn around with just 100 days to go before the Iowa caucus.

Here's what "The New York Times" described it, quote, "With Hillary Clinton emerging as the unrivalled leader in the Democratic contest, the unruly presidential field suddenly seemed to lack a center of political gravity."

[16:35:11] Let's bring in our panel, Democratic strategist Maria Cardona, conservative commentator Buck Sexton.

Buck, to begin with you, how concerned do you think the Republican Party is right now with the direction some, some of its candidates are going? Jeb Bush is the one who wowed everyone with his super PAC in the first quarter of all this, raising by far the most money ever.

BUCK SEXTON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I kind of disagree with the premise of the question. I don't think the Republican Party is all that concerned with the direction of the party overall, and, in fact, when you have this many candidates, there are going to be some who drop out. The fact that Jeb Bush is not doing well I'm actually --

HARLOW: Are you concerned more haven't dropped out?

SEXTON: Well, I think some should drop out more quickly than they have. I think, for example, not much to be gained at this point for Senator Rand Paul, for Rick Santorum, I could go through a whole number of candidates, but really the top five are all engaged in what we expect, which is a robust discussion and exchange of ideas at this point in time.

And I think that the best thing for the Republican Party right now to get a sense of where it's going and how it's connecting with voters is that everyone knows Hillary Clinton's going to be the nominee, OK, some people say she's not, a lot of people seem to think that they recognize that there's really no competition left for her and Hillary Clinton is losing in recent weeks to not one, but several of the Republican contenders who are in the top five.

So, the idea the Republicans are out of touch with the mainstream, we've got a whole bench full of people that can beat the only candidate the Democrats have. I don't think the Republicans are that worried. I think they are more or less OK.

HARLOW: Let me ask you this, as this bench is fighting with one another, and I'm going to play you some sound in one moment from Jeb Bush (INAUDIBLE) Donald Trump, does that hurt, Maria Cardona, the party as a whole looking ahead to a general election against potentially Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders? Let's roll that Bush sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: If this election is about how we're going to fight to get nothing done, then I don't want any part of it. I don't want to be elected president to sit around and see gridlock just become so dominant that people are literally in a decline in their lives. That is not my motivation. I got a lot of really cool things I could do other than sit around being miserable listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. That is a joke.

Elect Trump if you want that. If you want somebody -- if you want somebody who has a heart for people, who can fight for people and can fix these things, then there are a couple other people and I believe I'm the best one, and that's what we should be focusing on.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Maria, Reagan's 11th amendment, if you will, broken a long time ago, but does it hurt them in a general?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely it does, Poppy, and that's where I think their biggest challenge is going into the general. Look, you know, the Republican Party is definitely engaged in a robust discussion, but it's not a discussion of ideas, it's a discussion of who can insult the other candidates the best. Who can go on Twitter and denigrate the other candidates the best, and right now, what we're seeing is that person who is winning is Donald Trump.

And it seems like a lot of the Republican voters love what he's doing because he's an outsider, because they think he's giving voice to their frustration and if it's not him, it's Ben Carson, another outsider that has, frankly, talked about a lot of ideas that are absolutely out of the mainstream.

You cannot win a general election when you are insulting the biggest and fastest growing minority in this country, which are Latinos. You can't win the election when you are denigrating women.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: You can't win the general election apparently because the only candidate the Democrats have --

CARDONA: And you can't win a general election when you are not trying to attract additional voters.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: I know. I've heard the talking points. I just want to say you can win a general election when you're already beating a candidate that everybody knows now is obviously inevitable, numerous candidates, not just one, several Republican candidates are beating her. All of your comments about Twitter and how it's all making fun of each other, yes, Donald Trump does do a lot of that. He's supported by less than a third of the Republican Party right now.

HARLOW: Not just Donald Trump.

CARDONA: Why is he winning? He's winning, Buck.

SEXTON: That's just a slander on the rest of the candidates. They are describing all their platforms, their various ideas. I don't like Jeb Bush, but he's a policy guy.

CARDONA: Nobody's listening to Jeb Bush. That's the problem.

SEXTON: We don't like Jeb Bush, he's dropping out.

CARDONA: Nobody's listening to the candidates that you say are being substantive, because what happens when they get on the debate stage?

SEXTON: They are beating Hillary Clinton in national polls. They are winning. They are beating Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: Marco Rubio is beating Hillary Clinton in recent polls. Dr. Carson is beating Hillary Clinton in recent polls.

CARDONA: Guess what --

SEXTON: Ted Cruz is close to Hillary Clinton in recent polls. And we haven't had consolidation yet. This is all you guys have got is Hillary Clinton. That is it. A woman who --

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: If I could get a word in here.

HARLOW: Very quickly, got to get a break.

CARDONA: Because general election polls mean so much right now, Buck, right, because Mitt Romney beat Barack Obama, right? The way the general election polls showed this time in 2012.

SEXTON: Nobody said Mitt Romney was going off the rails and was unserious candidate.

[16:40:03] CARDONA: Good luck with that.

HARLOW: Stay with me. CARDONA: And I hope you bet on those general election polls.

HARLOW: Maria, Buck, stay with me. You need a commercial break to calm down.

CARDONA: Thank you.

HARLOW: We're going to come back the other side and talk about a very important issue to every single kid in America right now, high stakes testing. Next, a surprising move made from the White House, the Obama administration and also what Donald Trump has to say on education.

But first, this week's "Human Factor".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On "30 Rock," Tracy Morgan made us laugh.

TRACY MORGAN, COMEDIAN: I am a Jedi.

GUPTA: By played an over the top version of himself. The roll earned him an Emmy nomination and scores of fans.

Morgan first rose to fame in the '90s on "Saturday Night Live."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Brian Fallon.

MORGAN: That bird is a liar.

GUPTA: The laughter masking personal pain. A troubled upbringing, his father's death to AIDS, his best friend's murder, a life threatening battle with diabetes.

MORGAN: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

GUPTA: But on June 7, 2014, everything changed.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Tracy Morgan was involved in a very serious auto accident.

GUPTA: The crash left him in a coma for weeks. Morgan's recovery meant he had to miss "SNL's" 40th anniversary special.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish my friend Tracy Morgan was here tonight.

GUPTA: A few months later, he was ready to talk on the "Today" show.

MORGAN: I love comedy and I wonder how I'm going to be funny again.

GUPTA: In the first images of Morgan after the accident, a familiar, upbeat smile. His doctor even telling "The Daily Beast" he was, quote, "nothing short of a miracle." And in returning to "SNL," nothing short of an emotional homecoming.

MORGAN: Thank you so much. (CHEERS & APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:45:41] HARLOW: Major announcement today from the White House, the Obama administration talking about changes to education.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our kids should only take tests that are worth taking. Tests that are high quality, aimed at good instruction, and makes sure everybody's on track. Second, tests shouldn't occupy too much classroom time or crowd out teaching and learning, tests should enhance teaching and learning. And third, tests should be just one source of information, used alongside classroom work and surveys and other factors to give us an all around look at how our students and our schools are doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That's a major announcement from the White House. They want to limit the number of standardized tests that are taken by kids in public schools across this country.

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said last week on "FOX News Sunday" he wants to get rid of the Department of Education.

Let's talk about this. Maria Cardona, Buck Sexton both back with me.

Buck, first, your take on this move. When we talk about important issues, this is probably one issue that does not get enough attention in these elections.

SEXTON: It doesn't get enough attention. I think testing is, honestly, a secondary issue to the broader and more important issue of choice within schools. This is a place where Republicans across the board are the ones who are disrupters in the sense that they have innovative ideas, they have means of actually trying to increase educational options, primarily, by the way, having the greatest impact on low income and minority communities.

Republicans are the ones that are coming with charter schools, with school choice, trying to do things that would actually help, because the tests are just evaluating what's being done after it's already been done in a sense, and we actually haven't seen test scores go up since the 1970s in a meaningful way, despite the fact that in this country, we spend over $600 billion a year on public school.

So, the idea you're going to just change the testing -- OK, maybe this is sort of nibbling around the edges of the problem. The real problem is that the Democratic Party has an unholy alliance with teachers unions and think that it's important --

HARLOW: Well, it's interesting -- SEXTON: -- that somebody should work eight months a year with tenure

and can't get fired than actually help kids, and kids -- a lot of them are in really difficult urban communities.

HARLOW: I think it's interesting, Maria, because this issue brings together Republicans and Democrats, because you've got some of the Democrats Buck talked about saying don't rate our teachers based on these tests and you've got Republicans saying this is way overreach of the federal government to measure our kids' success on these standardized tests.

Really important to note this council of great city schools came out with a survey today, as well as this announcement, and what it found is that kids from kindergarten through high school take 112 mandatory standardized tests. Let me quote from "The New York Times", there was no evidence, the study found, that more time spent on tests improved academic performance.

But, Maria, to the bigger issue that Buck points out, what needs to be done for the kids in this country that this study says aren't benefiting from this?

CARDONA: Well, I actually think what the president came out with was very smart, and high time, because there were a lot of people, both on the left and the right that were frustrated that teachers were only teaching to the tests, that their kids were only studying to the tests. I'm one of those parents who was absolutely frustrated with all of the testing that was going on without focusing on actual learning.

So, I think that this is good policy, it is good politics. I think what kids deserve is for leaders and educators to come together and figure out how they get access to good education. You know, Republicans love this talking point of school choice, but the problem is, is that when it comes down to actual implementation of what their policies would be, it would not be school choice for everyone. That's why public education is so important and we have to make sure that the investments that are made in public education are good investments, the right investments, that are going to make sure that our kids get that quality education.

SEXTON: What's interesting is we've tried what you want for the last 40 years and it hasn't worked. And you're saying, well, if Republicans actually got some of their ideas through, it wouldn't work. So, you're suggesting more centralized government control in education, shovel more money at the problem.

CARDONA: No, I'm not.

SEXTON: It hasn't worked in 40 years, let's try that now.

(CROSSTALK)

SEXTON: Changing the testing isn't going to do anything. We all know it. CARDONA: I think what we need to do is to make sure that all kids get

access to quality teachers and quality schools, no matter where they live. I live in Washington, D.C.

SEXTON: We've been hearing that for decades.

[16:50:01] CARDONA: There are a lot of great schools here, but there are a lot of failing schools and it's getting better. But the kids who are in the districts that are lowest income are the ones that so far have been getting punished, and that is what needs to change.

SEXTON: Still waiting to hear the policy.

CARDONA: The access, the access and the investments needs to go to make sure all kids have access to quality education and that good teachers are going to all school districts.

HARLOW: Maria, Buck, thank you very much.

SEXTON: Thank you.

CARDONA: Thank you.

HARLOW: Secretary of Education Arne Duncan joins us exclusively in the next hour to talk about this major announcement for the White House. We'll get his reaction to what Buck said these policies aren't working.

Coming up next, dangerous flooding across parts of Texas and now the remnants of Hurricane Patricia, heading that way, the mayor of Houston expected to hold a live news conference at the top of the hour. Ten minutes away. We will bring that to you live.

Stay with us.

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[16:55:10] HARLOW: You are looking at images from today from Dover, Delaware, the air force base there. The dignified transfer of the remains of Master Sergeant Joshua Wheeler have returned to the United States.

The 39-year-old was from Oklahoma. He is the first American to die in combat in Iraq since 2011. He was killed while his special operations team was rescuing Iraqi hostages. Defense Secretary Ash Carter praising his heroism and his family is right now there at Dover Air Force Base.

Carter spoke yesterday about the value of the hostage mission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASH CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The stuff you get and the great value, by the way, of raids of this kind and I expect it will do more of this kind of thing. But one of the reasons for that is that you learn a great deal. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Wheeler is a member of the Army Elite Delta Force. Seventy hostages were freed in that mission in Iraq. He is survived by his wife and his four children.

Coming up next, dangerous flooding already across parts of Texas and now remnants of the hurricane that was Hurricane Patricia heading that way. Mayor of Houston expected to hold a live news conference at the top of the hour. We'll bring you that live.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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