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Marco Rubio in a fascinating interview defending a high number of skipped votes while in the Senate while he is out on the campaign trail; U.S.-led forces have destroyed an ISIS prison in Iraq; Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair speaking out about the war in Iraq; Jefferson Jackson dinner in Iowa is a big night for Democrats; Hillary Clinton made sure to address African-American voters directly last night in Iowa; Exclusive interview with Aaron Sorkin; Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 25, 2015 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:14] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: Top of the hour, I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Thank you so much for being with me this Sunday evening.

We begin with the race for the White House. And the Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio in a fascinating interview defending a high number of skipped votes while in the Senate while he is out on the campaign trail. Rubio sat down for an exclusive one-on- one with our very owned Jamie Gangel on "STATE OF THE UNION." Jamie asked him this question, is it hypocritical for Rubio to call federal workers, to call on them to be fired for not doing their job when he himself has the worst voting attendance record in the Senate?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Marco Rubio criticism over and over again that you keep missing votes on the Senate floor, 43 percent of the votes. I know you say you're campaigning for president. But Bernie Sanders, Rand Paul, they've missed fewer than ten votes. You're up at 59 or 60.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, everyone needs to run their own campaign. I can tell you that in the history of presidential politics people when they've been running for politics in the Senate they've missed votes. And I'm not missing votes because I'm on vacation.

GANGEL: But this many votes.

RUBIO: Actually, this is lower than what other people have missed. I'm running for president so that the votes they take in the Senate are actually meaningful again. A lot of these votes won't mean anything. They are not going to pass and even if they do the president would veto them.

GANGEL: The other day, sir, you got up on the Senate floor and you said federal workers who don't show up should be fired.

RUBIO: That's not what I said.

GANGEL: What did you say? RUBIO: I said federal workers that aren't doing their jobs, that are

not performing at their jobs should be able to be fired. They should be held accountable for not performing.

GANGEL: So, someone might say you're not showing up. You are not doing your job by voting.

RUBIO: Not true. Because voting is not the only part of the Senate job. I mean, the most important thing a Senator does is constituent service. We're still involved in looking out for Florida issues.

GANGEL: Wait a minute, votes aren't important? Intelligence committee hearings aren't important?

RUBIO: Of course, they are important. We do all the intelligence briefings. I was just there this Tuesday. I got fully briefed and caught up on everything that is happening in the world. I'm fully aware. We have a staffer assigned to intelligence. We get constant briefings. I think votes, of course, are important. But unfortunately, too many of them, they are not meaningful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Well, during that same interview, Rubio said he was becoming increasingly confident that he would emerge as the Republican nominee and go face to face with Hillary Clinton in the general.

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and contributing editor for Atlantic media Peter Beinart. Also with me from Washington, Daniel Halper, editor for "the Weekly Standard."

Gentlemen, thank you for being here with me. And I want you to listen to what Rubio said on the floor of the Senate this week about those federal workers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I just want everybody to understand what we're saying here. All we are saying in this bill is if you work at the VA and you aren't doing your job, they get to fire you. I think people are shocked that that doesn't exist in the entire government since there is really no other job in the country where if you don't do your job you don't get fired. But in this instance, we are just limiting it to one agency. This should actually be the rule in the entire government. If you're not doing your job you should be fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Daniel, he says he is skipping a lot of these votes because they're not meaningful. Does it add up?

DANIEL HALPER, EDITOR, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: Well, what voters won't have a chance to fire Marco Rubio because he is leaving the job. He is choosing not to run for reelection as a senator from Florida. So, you know, look, it's a clean shot of hypocrisy for Marco Rubio and it's fine to criticize him. I don't think the Republican primary voters care that much and particularly I think Congress is effective for doing its job very well. And so, they are not going to be too scandalized that somebody decide not to go to work and vote.

And by the way, can anybody tell me which votes exactly did he missed? What were the deciding issues on which he missed and that he was the decisive factor by not being there? I think that's very hard to come up with. And I think therefore it is not really politically going to hurt him that much.

HARLOW: Do you agree, Peter?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree it won't hurt him. I mean, there's an irony here which is that being in the Senate is a pretty good place running for president but actually being an effective long-term senator is not, right? So we have a trend now. Barack Obama, Marco Rubio, that it's good to go into the Senate but actually -- because people dislike these institutions so much, in some ways it's better to have been there for a short period of time and not really have a long track record. I think on the substance, I think there is a legitimate criticism here. But I agree with Daniel, I don't think this will matter much at all in the primary or frankly even in the general.

HARLOW: So he also in that interview Rubio went on the attack against Donald Trump for his issues on immigration. Let's roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GANGEL: He is the front-runner, though, and he hits you and Carson over and over again. He says you're weak on immigration. Is he more in tune with the Republican Party on this issue than you are?

RUBIO: No. His rhetoric is a little louder but if you think about where he was six months ago, his position on immigration six months ago is nothing like what he is saying now. And even what he's saying now is borders on the absurd. He is going to deport all these people and then he is going to allow back in the ones that are good. His plan makes no sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:05:15] HARLOW: What do you think, Peter? To you first. Is that a smart strategy? I mean, he is the son of Cuban immigrants, right? And he was at one point part of the gang of eight. But also he is coming at Trump on something that is a signature of Trump's campaign.

BEINART: I'm not sure this is that smart for him. I mean, one of the things that Rubio has done has been wise is he has stayed out of these food fights with Donald Trump. Jeb Bush has gotten caught up again and again and again. And I also think particularly immigration is an issue one which it is a dangerous issue for Rubio. It is an issue on which he did flip-flop in a major way which leaves him open to Republican primary voters who think he is pro quote-unquote "amnesty." But also in a general election leads him, you know, open to people who say he didn't actually act from convictions. So, I'm kind of surprise that he is taking the bait here. HARLOW: I want to get your take, Daniel, on the Democrats as well

while I have you. Last night at the big Jefferson Jackson dinner in Iowa in front of 6,000 people, so important for these candidates Bernie Sanders took a shot at Hillary Clinton for saying the 1996 defense of marriage act during her husband's term as president was a, quote "defensive act," right? She was basically saying this is better than what it could have been at that time in history to prevent what she calls worse anti-gay discrimination. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today, some are trying to rewrite history by saying they voted for one anti-gay law to stop something worse. That's not the case. There was a small minority in the house opposed to discriminating against our gay brothers and sisters, and I am proud that I was one of those.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Daniel, to you first, I mean, is Hillary Clinton going to keep having to answer for her husband's term on issues especially like this?

HALPER: Well, look, she made the comment about it a couple days ago.

HARLOW: Right. She was asked about it.

HALPER: And he also attacked her for the Iraq war vote. Actually the whole speech was pretty much a criticism of Hillary Clinton and her flip-flopping. To be fair to Bernie Sanders, she leveled the same criticism at President Clinton in 1997. So he has been consistent in his criticism in saying that these people flip-flop when it suits them politically. I think that's a very valid criticism. I think that that resonates with a certain number of voters. I'm not sure how much traction he'll gain because it looks like Hillary Clinton has locked up the Democratic nomination to some degree.

HARLOW: I don't know. I wouldn't call this locked up.

HALPER: I think Iowa is still in play. New Hampshire is still in play. He is still doing very well there and he will still be able to put up a fight. And it's worth him fighting. And it shows that he means it, that he cares about it and that he is in it to win it. And I think it's a good sign if you are a Bernie Sanders supporter, his speech last night.

HARLOW: Peter, he walks out to a song, you know, this is the revolution, right, the beginning of the revolution. He sees that he has been resonating. Interesting, we haven't seen any attack ads from him. He said he is going to run a positive campaign. But he did take a swipe at Hillary Clinton last night. She didn't to him. I just wonder how much you think she's going to have to focus on what her husband did in office while backing up the current president and running her own campaign.

BEINART: Well, right. This is a tricky part of Hillary Clinton's campaign. She's deeply implicated in both of the last two Democratic presidential administrations. And in some way that's key to her argument, right? I think a central part of her argument if she is the nominee will be look, things were a lot better under my husband and under Barack Obama than they were under George W. Bush. You know, which one do you want? You want to go back to the Republicans or not? But on a lot of specific issues, it does leave her vulnerable to where a position that Clinton or Obama took is no longer popular.

HALPER: She can't have it both ways. She can't say that she wants credit for being first lady and secretary of state without some of the blame that comes with it. You have to have it one way and have no association with it or you have to take, you know, the good things with the bad things.

HARLOW: Sure. And everything is fair in love, war, and politics.

Peter Beinart, thank you. Daniel Halper, thank you, both. Appreciate it.

HALPER: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Coming up next in an exclusive CNN interview Britain's former prime minister candidly reflects on the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and the takedown of Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Given that Saddam Hussein did not prove to have weapons of mass destruction, was the decision to enter Iraq and topple his regime a mistake?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You will hear what Tony Blair said next.

Also, just in to us here at CNN, dramatic helmet camera video inside of that deadly raid against ISIS to save 70 hostages who were with to be executed and what the U.S. military just did to that ISIS prison.

Also, CNN goes one-on-one with screenwriter Aaron Sorkin about the brilliant and complex man at the center of the new film "Steve Jobs."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no question but that he was a difficult and complicated man with a temper who would express his displeasure in ways that weren't always comfortable for the people he worked with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:10:10] HARLOW: You're watching CNN. Stay with us. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:13:27] HARLOW: All right. This just in to us here at CNN U.S.- led forces have destroyed an ISIS prison in Iraq that is the prison where that U.S. soldier was killed in combat last week during the raid that freed 70 hostages who were just hours away from execution.

CNN's Ryan Nobles joins us now.

Ryan, this video is remarkable. It almost looks like it is out of a movie, but it is indeed real the U.S. military confirming that. Walk us through it.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, Poppy, soon after a raid that left master sergeant Joshua Wheeler dead, coalition aircraft destroyed the ISIS prison in Iraq where officials say that 70 hostages were being held. And that 's the video we are showing you right now, But the video you're talking about, Poppy, the U.S. military releasing video of the strike that destroyed the prison.

And for the first time today we're seeing intense video of the raid as it happened. You can see Special Forces going into the prison and liberating the hostages. At least 20 of whom were members of the Iraqi security force.

Meanwhile, master Sergeant Wheeler's body arrived back in the United States yesterday. His death, of course, the first at the hands of the enemy in Iraq since 2011. Defense secretary Ash Carter said raids like this are part of the U.S. mission in Iraq. But it does not indicate that Americans will be a part of ongoing ground combat in the region - Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes, absolutely. Again, the 39-year-old there master sergeant leaving behind his wife and four children.

Ryan Nobles, thank you for that.

Today, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair speaking out about the war in Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction. That, of course, was the finding after the war. Tens of thousands of Iraqis, more 4,000 U.S. troops, 179 British service members killed in that war. And after Saddam Hussein was ousted, we saw the rise of Al-Qaeda, now ISIS in Iraq. It is also been a bit of a black eye for the legacy of the former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, America's biggest ally there. Today in an exclusive and fascinating sit-down with CNN's Fareed Zakaria, here's what Blair said --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:15:27] ZAKARIA: Given, however, that Saddam Hussein did not prove to have weapons of mass destruction, was the decision to enter Iraq and topple his regime a mistake?

TONY BLAIR FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): You know, whenever I'm asked this, I can say that I apologize for the fact that the intelligence we received was wrong, because even though he had used chemical weapons extensively against his own people, against others, the program in the form that we thought it was did not exist in the way that we thought, so I can apologize for that. I can also apologize, by the way, for some of the mistakes in planning and certainly our mistaken in our understanding of what would happen once you removed the regime. But I find it hard to apologize for removing Saddam. I think even from today in 2015 it is better that he's not there than that he is there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Aaron David Miller is with me. He's a distinguished scholar with the Woodrow Wilson international center, also former adviser to six secretaries of state. Thank you for being with me.

AARON DAVID MILLER, DISTINGUISHED SCHOLAR WITH THE WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER: Pleasure to be here. At least to hear you, and not see you.

HARLOW: OK. Well, we can see you which is the important thing, Aaron. And let me ask you, just the reaction to the significance of what we just heard there From Tony Blair.

MILLER: Well, a thoughtful guy. Clearly leaders removed from decision making, particularly ones that are thoughtful and willing to admit certain mistakes and not others. I mean, it's a familiar set of questions, Poppy. You're not going to get the same set of apologies here. But I think in a way it's -- it's kind of instructive. I mean, you have a situation in which Tony Blair regrets bad intelligence. He regrets bad analysis. But he doesn't regret the fact that the Brits helped participate in a war that essentially moved -- removed a cruel and murderous dictator.

And, you know, if you ask me, yes, the Iraqi people, Libyan people frankly for that matter, would be better served over the long term by the fact that these two aren't here. The problem is the process by which these transitions occurred and the way in which they were done. And here questions need to be asked. I don't know about apologies, but questions need to be asked so that we learn, particularly in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, that, you know, the two longest wars in American history, where the standard for victory was probably never could we win but when could we leave, that we examine our own decision making when it comes to projection of American military force and its consequences.

HARLOW: Right. Well, I think also given the situation wherein with Assad in Syria right now. So on that front and on the rise of ISIS, I want to listen to what Tony Blair told Fareed about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAKARIA: When people look at the rise of is, many people point to the invasion of Iraq as the principal cause. What would you say to them?

BLAIR: I think there are elements of truth in that. But I think we've, again, got to be extremely careful, otherwise we'll misunderstand what's going on in Iraq and Syria today. Of course, you can't say that those of us who removed Saddam in 2003 bear no responsibility for the situation in 2015. But it's important also to realize, one, that the Arab spring which began in 2011 would also have had its impact on Iraq today. And, two, is actually came to prominence from the base in Syria and not in Iraq. And that leads me to the broader point, which I think is so essential when we're looking at policy today, which is we have tried intervention and putting down troops. In Iraq. We've tried intervention without putting in troops in Libya. And we've tried no intervention at all, but demanding regime change in Syria. It's not clear to me that even if our policy did not work subsequent policies have worked better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, Aaron, you cannot rewrite history, right? And hindsight is indeed 20/20 but looking at the situation in Syria right now and Assad and this administration, what lessons can be learned from what we hear Tony Blair say?

MILLER: Well, I think one in particular, Poppy, before the United States -- and let's be clear here. This is an American problem primarily. It became derivatively a Brit problem. Before America acts particularly with respect to projection of American military force and willing to put Americans in harm's way, spend American money and risk American credibility, really three questions need to be asked.

Number one, not just can we do it, but two additional questions. Should we do it? And number three, what will it cost? And here I think the first question was asked, but the other two both in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan and maybe even Libya given the lack of follow- up, it's critically important I think for future presidents to come to terms honestly and realistically with the reality that military power is an instrument. It is a means to achieve a set of objectives and we better be thinking about the day after and whether those objectives are achievable.

So, Barack Obama's risk aversion on Syria is directly related it seems to me and I worked for "Rs" and "Ds," it's not a political comment. Barack Obama's risk aversion is directly related to George W. Bush.

[17:21:01] HARLOW: Aaron David Miller, fascinating insight as always. Thank you.

MILLER: Pleasure.

HARLOW: For all of you, you can watch the CNN Special Report "long road to hell, America in Iraq." That is Fareed Zakaria's program airing tomorrow night 9:00 p.m. eastern only right here on CNN.

Straight ahead, homecoming tragedy. Four people are dead. Dozens more injured as a driver plows into a crowd at a parade and for the first time we are hearing from the family of one of the victims. Stay with us. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (voice-over): (INAUDIBLE) chef Virgilio Martinez (ph) is here on the colony journey to learn about the dish that dates back thousands of years, (INAUDIBLE) which takes its name from an urban oven used by the Incas to cook potatoes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have decided to find it here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: For Francisco and his ancestors, (INAUDIBLE) was born out of necessity. When harvest kept the kids' farmers away from their homes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The weather is nice. So we can start with the whole process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) is built using materials that are readily available. Stones form the opening for the makeshift oven. While dirt clods are stacked closely and in a circular shape. Branches of eucalyptus are used as kindling, added gradually to build up the heat.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the idea is that before at the beginning, you know, the stones were round, they start to get very black and it's a good sign that we can add the potatoes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Fava beans and other tubers such as Ocres are also added to (INAUDIBLE). The oven eventually collapses trapping the heat and virtually burying the food which is left to cook gently.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, we can see it. It's the soil and the wood. Very smoky. We are getting the potatoes already cooked one by one. We have to be very careful because the stones are very, very hot. There is a lot of ash. It smells beautiful. This is just fantastic for me. It's so back to our roots. I don't see this in Lima. Not at all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:27] HARLOW: Well, the woman who plowed her car into a crowd of people at a university homecoming parade yesterday is set to appear in a courtroom tomorrow charged with DUI. Four people including a 2- year-old child were killed, 47 others remain injured, 17 are still in the hospital. One of them is in critical condition, that is 60-year- old Leo Schmitz, his stepson spoke at a news conference a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I apologize, we're still in our clothes from yesterday. It's been a crazy 24 hours. But, you know, the OU medical center really has helped out. And to say the least, you know, best doctors around. And everybody kept a cool head. And I think Leo and the rest of the families, the children, are in the best hands they can be. We have some medical folks in our family, and they're kind of interpreting the medical jargon and, like I said, it's starting to sound better for sure. And so it's good to have family and, you know, today we're all Oklahoma.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:32:01] HARLOW: The Jefferson Jackson dinner in Iowa is a big night for Democrats and the presidential candidates all certainly know that. It is where then Senator Barack Obama had the breakout moment in 2007 so who got the most attention last night?

CNN's Jeff Zeleny was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fireworks in the presidential race. Democratic rivals descending on Iowa 100 days before the first votes of the 2016 primary. Hillary Clinton seizing on the star power of Katy Perry.

KATY PERRY, SINGER: Fight on, 2016 is right around the corner!

ZELENY: And the political power of Bill Clinton in his campaign trail debut.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've never been the warm-up act for Katy Perry before. But I'm well aware I am the warm-up act.

ZELENY: The biggest week yet of the democratic presidential race ended in Iowa, where Clinton had plenty of company and competition.

Senator Bernie Sanders has become a Democratic star of his own. His campaign chartered a plane to fly over their dueling rallies calling for a revolution before marching side by side with his followers.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a march which will end up in a year when you will join me in the White House.

ZELENY: A festival of politics coming to a full boil at the Jefferson Jackson dinner a marquee event for Democrats. It was at this dinner eight years ago where Illinois senator Barack Obama jump-started his presidential campaign.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we are really serious about winning this election, Democrats, then we can't live in fear of losing.

ZELENY: Sanders said history could repeat itself.

SANDERS: About eight years ago all of the political experts talked about how another Democratic candidate for president just couldn't win. He was unelectable. Do you remember that guy? What's his name? It's President Obama.

ZELENY: Sanders presented himself as a principled progressive, drawing a sharp contrast to Clinton's votes on Iraq, gay rights and Wall Street reform.

SANDERS: I will not abandon any segment of American society just because it is politically expedient at a given time.

ZELENY: Former Maryland governor Martin O'Malley said it was time for a new generation to lead.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: New leadership or the same old battles of our past? Actions or words? Do we want to get things done or do we just want to keep kind of shouting past each other?

ZELENY: But Clinton argued her experience makes her the party's strongest nominee.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not enough just to rail against the Republicans or the billionaires. We actually have to win this election.

[17:35:00] ZELENY: In Iowa, Clinton has an edge in the polls. But Sanders is capturing the enthusiasm. A sign this Democratic race is not yet settled.

CROWD: Bernie, Bernie, Bernie.

ZELENY: With 100 days remaining before the Iowa caucuses kick off the road to the White House, Hillary Clinton is clearly in the Democratic driver's seat, she spent far more time talking about her Republican rivals than her Democratic ones. But Bernie Sanders' supporters are loyal and committed and still looking for a primary fight.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Des Moines, Iowa.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Jeff, thank you very much.

Coming up next, only one Democrat mentioned the Black Lives Matter movement at that dinner in Iowa last night. We will look at the possibility of a significant shift this election when it comes to the African-American vote. Is it being taken for granted, and could Republicans walk away with it? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:39:34] HARLOW: Hillary Clinton made sure to address African- American voters directly last night in Iowa. But she was the only one out of the speakers at that Jefferson Jackson dinner to specifically reference the black lives matter movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

H. CLINTON: I am fighting to reform criminal justice for every mother and father who worry every day that their child will be stopped by the police just for being African-American, because, yes, black lives matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [17:40:06] HARLOW: This week Clinton is expected to launch the African-Americans for Hillary campaign laying out how she plans to address those issues that are so critical to the African-American community and this is especially significant because of this poll.

Take a look, it's a Suffolk University/"USA today" poll from October 1st and it shows that Clinton support among black voters has taken a significant turn in the wrong direction losing 31 points among black voters from July to October. Now, it's important to keep in mind that this was taken October 1st, before Biden announced he wouldn't run, and it does have a 10 percent margin of error. But, still, significant.

And while last night was certainly not the first time that Clinton addressed the Black Lives Matter movement on the trail, reaction from that group has been mixed towards her. Even after this exchange in August in New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

H. CLINTON: Look, I don't believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws. You change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate. You're not going to change every hearts. You are not. But at the end of the day we can do a whole lot to change some hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them to live up to their own God-given potential.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: A lot of talk when she said that about not being able to change hearts. Let's talk about it with CNN contributor and former U.S. representative Bakari Sellers and CNN contributor Theodore Johnson who also penned a fascinating article recently in "the Atlantic" called can the Democratic Party retain its hold on black voters.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

Let me begin with you, Theodore. What does Hillary Clinton need to do to lock in that support from the African-American community? Yes, she's helped by Biden not running but it's not locked in yet.

THEODORE JOHNSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's right. So I think step number one is what she did and that's basically to say the words Black Lives Matter. It seems like a small thing but as you noted she's really one of the only people running for president on either side saying it is. So that is a strong cue to the black audience that she does hear their complaints. But it is also sort of coming to terms with the fact that the 1994 crime bill wasn't helpful to black Americans and the criminal justice reform talk she's had recently is helpful there.

HARLOW: Signed by her husband.

JOHNSON: Exactly right. Ostensibly she supported it as well. But look. What she needs to show is she hears the concerns of black America and that she has policy solutions that will address the disparities. It's OK to sympathize and emphasize with what black folks go through in America but it's insufficient. So policy solutions to help black people is what she really needs to run on and show how her platform is distinguished from those on the other side of the aisle.

HARLOW: Bakari, I was very struck reading your op-ed recently on CNN.com. Let me put part of it up there on the screen. You wrote, I have seen too much hopelessness in my state. I have felt too much anger. I have been too many funerals and I know I'm not alone. I have been waiting for the candidates for president to speak up on these issues and I have -- I have lived but so far I haven't heard much. The Democrats haven't said enough and the Republicans have missed the point entirely, but I will keep waiting, pushing, and praying.

So, to you, policy-wise what are you waiting to hear?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, one of the things that we have to hear other than just the words Black Lives Matter is a robust criminal justice platform which Martin O'Malley has, which Bernie Sanders actually came around and actually has and which Hillary Clinton will be putting forth and she's been talking about since day one on her campaign. But it's about more than that.

We also have to this see a plan for educational opportunity. We have to see a plan for economic justice. These are all issues that are coupled together which help and tune in minority voters to this election. We're excited. Hillary Clinton said something the other day in the debate which made me jump out of my seat. She talked about a new deal for minority voters. And I look forward to her talking about these topics because, yes, in the African-American community there is a sense of despair. And African-Americans have to come out in resounding numbers in Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, and Florida if Democrats hope to retain the White House.

HARLOW: I want you both to listen to what ESPN Stephen Smith's said in a recent interview with Michael Smerconish here on CNN. Very interesting talking about he said all African-Americans should vote Republican in at least one election saying, look, he said Democrats in large part have taken the black vote for granted. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN SMITH, ESPN HOST, FIRST TAKE: The vast majority of black Americans, look at the Republican party as the enemy. We look at the Democratic Party even tacitly as our support base and as a result we are very transparent in our support for them. So because of it they have a license to take us for granted. The Republican Party has a license -- a license to summarily dismiss us because they believe they'll never get our vote anyway and then we end up finding ourselves devoid of any kind of representation whatsoever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)\

[17:45:04] HARLOW: Is he right, Theodore?

JOHNSON: So, I don't know about -- so, here's where he's right. He's right in that many black voters, myself included, feel like the Democratic Party takes you for granted and the Republican Party is uninterested in your vote. And so, I think he's absolutely correct in saying that the black vote should be contested. It should not be guaranteed to either party. And black voters shouldn't just grant their vote to a particular party just because of tradition or whatever, they should assess every candidate at every election on the issues and then determine what's best for themselves and their family and the race as a whole.

But here's the thing. The Republican Party has to try. They're the ones fighting the uphill battle here, so if they want the black vote, they're going to have to dial back some of the civil rights -- anti- civil rights rhetoric sort of get rid of these perceptions as George Bush -- or, I'm sorry, Jeb Bush stated the other day that black folks just want free stuff and my message will be one of hope and aspiration as if black folks don't have hope and aspiration already.

So, getting rid of these stereotypes that make black people seem that they need mothering by the state or desire mothering by the states is something the party has to get rid of if they want to contest the black vote and content for it. But I agree with the sentiment that if black people continue to vote, 90 percent for one party without even considering the alternatives that doesn't to us a whole lot of good and frankly it's not good for the country as well.

HARLOW: Bakari, I got 30 seconds, your final thought?

SELLERS: Well, I thought Stephen A. Smith's comments were (INAUDIBLE) and it is based on the premise that African-Americans are monolithic which we are not. That's first and foremost. But second, just to talk further about his points just briefly.

You talk about the Republican debate and talking black issues, they only talked about black lives matter and criminal justice reform for 47 seconds. And Scott Walker gave the answer and it was so aloof that he gave the answer about black lives matter and didn't mention black people.

JOHNSON: That's right.

SELLERS: So I'm from a state that it's Republican controlled and I dare not have anyone else in this country have to be subjected to that especially other African-American voters. So hopefully the Democratic party will do what they need to do to secure the vote heading in the 2016.

HARLOW: There is another GOP debate. That is this Wednesday night. We will see what happens there.

Bakari Sellers, Theodore Johnson, thank you, gentlemen, both.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

HARLOW: Quick break. We're back in a moment.

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[17:51:33] HARLOW: Making a movie about an American legend, never easy. Oscar-winning screenwriter Aaron Sorkin faced that challenge in putting together "Steve Jobs," the newest film about apple's late co- founder and CEO. Sorkin spoke one-on-one with CNN Money's Laurie Segall about getting it right while trying to stay to his mission telling the story of the very complicated character. It's important to note the film is very controversial and Jobs' widow calls it fiction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: In that portrayal met?

AARON SORKIN, SCREENWRITER, STEVE JOBS: There is a difference between what you do, journalism, and what I do. My obligation is to create something subjective. While yours obviously is to be objective. So if you're writing about real people, obviously you can't make things up. And if there was something I knew to be true that would be damaging, say, to Steve's widow, Laurine, or to Steve's children, I wouldn't do that. I am not looking to hurt anybody. So I want to get it right in that sense. You take a Hippocratic Oath and say first do no harm. But there is a difference between a photograph and a painting and this is a painting.

SEGALL: You have these really touching moments in the film, and then you also have these moments where Steve Jobs comes off as really unkind. Were you worried about the portrayal?

SORKIN: No. I went with the information that I had. Walter Isaacson's book. But, he wasn't just authorized, it was requested. Steve gave him complete access. He was given instructions by both Steve and Laureen not to white-wash anything, not to pull any punches. And between the book and the -- sort of the first-person research that I did, there is no question but that he was a difficult and complicated man with a temper who would express his displeasure in ways that weren't always comfortable for the people he worked with.

SEGALL: I can only imagine all the time you spent trying to get into his head. What did you learn about the real Steve jobs by trying to create this character of Steve Jobs?

SORKIN: I think the biggest thing I learned about Steve Jobs is that I'm never going to know who Steve Jobs is. He is just much too complicated. And so I just knew pretty early on that there was no point in trying to write the Steve Jobs story, in trying to write a bio-pic, in trying to get all of him into a two-hour movie. So this movie has a much narrower lens and as a result I think it's pretty exciting.

SEGALL: I am interested. I covered tech for years. And it really certainly didn't seem like a Hollywood cared about technology when I started to cover it back in like 2009. There seems to be a fascination with Silicon Valley - Hollywood fascination with Silicon Valley. Why is that happening now?

SORKIN: Because that's where the stories are. Big stories. Some of these companies, whether it's Apple or Google or Yahoo! Are as big, if not bigger than governments. So we want to tell the stories.

SEGALL: Any other tech figure you are interested as potentially, you know, giving the Sorkin treatment and turning it into a Hollywood block buster. Any hint you can give us?

SORKIN: The Sorkin treatment, I think 100 tech figures just (INAUDIBLE) under their beds. But I am not really a tech guy. I think it's really more of a coincidence that I have written two movies about tech titans. It's really more the human stories that I was interested in than the machinery and the technology.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:55:01] SEGALL: Poppy, one other really interesting point of this film is the relationship between Steve Jobs and his daughter Lisa. That plays a big role in the film. I screened it. And I will tell you this. Aaron Sorkin got some access to Steve Jobs' daughter. And so you can really see some of the stories come to life on screen -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Laurie, thank you very much. Fascinating. Can't wait to see it.

Coming up in just a moment, helmet camera video from inside of that military raid in Iraq, saving 70 hostages from ISIS.

But first, switching gears. A singer turns a popular fashion movement into a way to impact lives. The giving keys jewelry project not only inspires it to help people transition out of homelessness. We take a look at the special impact your world, focused on women.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Actress and singer Caitlin Crosby says she just wants to help others.

CAITLIN CROSBY, FOUNDER, THE GIVING KEYS: I just am obsessed with people and wanting to spread hope and encouragement, whether it be through a song or Instagram post. Whatever it is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Like sharing inspiring words on old keys.

CROSBY: I had an old hotel key from New York that I thought was cool. Went to a locksmith and asked him to engrave inspiring words like love, hope, fearless. At first I just I wanted to create a cool, inspiring product that different people could buy on tour. And the stories started pouring in like so-and-so has cancer, so I gave them my fight key. So I thought to myself I need to make a Web site where the stories are being shown. Then I started thegivingkeys.com.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Crosby had no idea this would be the key to opening doors for those without a home.

CROSBY: We now hire people that are trying to transition out of homelessness to engrave keys. Partnered with chrysalis. They screen the people for us to make sure that we're hiring people who are really trying to change their lives and make sure they're ready for this change.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Giving people like Giovani (ph) a new beginning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for not judging me based upon my past but where I am striving to go in my life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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