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Ben Carson Leading Republican Race; Outrage in South Carolina; Interview with State Rep. Mia McLeod; President Obama Addresses Police Chiefs. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 27, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We roll on, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's begin with the fact we're about to learn what Donald Trump is like in second place, because he's no longer the Republican front- runner, at least not today. Ben Carson, Trump's fellow Washington outsider, is the new man to beat. Got some new numbers for you. Check them out with me.

This is the new national poll. We were talking Iowa specifically yesterday. This is national. This is out today, CBS News/"New York Time." It shows 26 percent of the Republican primary voters say they back the retired pediatric neurosurgeon, while 22 percent stand with Donald Trump, as you see, the rest of the pack languishing in single digits with one day before the next big Republican showdown, a high- stakes debate in Colorado.

And that's where we sent our chief correspondent, Dana Bash. We will get to all of that in just a minute.

But we have to begin with this moment -- this just happened -- on the campaign trail. Let's listen to Ohio Governor John Kasich, presidential candidate, who vowed multiple times he would not go negative against his rivals, until now. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have about had it with these people.

(LAUGHTER)

KASICH: And let me tell you why. We have got one candidate that says that we ought to abolish Medicaid and Medicare. Have you ever heard of anything so crazy as that, telling our people in this country who are seniors, who are about to be seniors that we're going abolish Medicaid and Medicare?

We have got one person saying we ought to have a 10 percent flat tax. It will drive up the deficit in this country by trillions of dollars that my daughters will spend the rest of their lives having to pay off. What I say to them is, why don't we have no taxes? Just get rid of them all, and then a chicken in every pot on top of it?

(LAUGHTER)

KASICH: We got one guy that says we ought to take 10 or 11 million people and pick them up. I don't know what. We're going to go in their homes, their apartments? We're going to pick them up and we're going to take them to the border and scream at them to get out of our country?

I mean, that's just -- that's just crazy. That's just crazy. We have got people proposing health care reform that's going to leave, I believe, millions of people without adequate health insurance. What has happened to our party? What has happened to the conservative movement?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dana Bash, he's not naming names, but we know exactly who he's referring to there.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Have you talked to the campaign?

BASH: I have because just as you said before going to that rather lengthy rant from John Kasich, I talked to the campaign and called them to ask the question about what happened to not going negative.

And the answer was, well, he didn't use any candidates' name. He didn't have to. We knew who he was talking about. He was talking about Ben Carson and particularly when he comes to a 10 percent across-the-board tax cut or tax percentage, I should say, tax rate.

And then also Donald Trump, the idea of rounding up 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country and taking them out of the country. So the answer to the question of why now was, well, he's sick and tired of hearing these other candidates say things that just won't pan out, that just cannot happen while they are in office.

So that's where that came from. Now, that's what sort of the explanation is. The reality is, we are here a day before the Republican debate. John Kasich did really well, sort of put himself on the map at the first Republican debate, where he really shined.

The last one at the CNN debate in Simi Valley, he kind of faded into the background. He didn't have any real moments. Clearly, he's previewing, Brooke, tomorrow night, he wants to have a moment or two. That's what this is about.

BALDWIN: Yes. And I'm sure what I'm about to talk to with my next guest may find its way as a topic in that debate as well in Boulder, Colorado.

Dana Bash, thank you so much.

To that very issue, U.S. boots on the ground in Iraq and Syria. This is something that President Barack Obama vowed would not happen as the United States took a leading role to defeat ISIS, but, today, an apparent shift from the defense secretary, Ash Carter, admitting that the war as it stands right now, it is not working and it's time to consider U.S. troops on the front lines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHTON CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We won't hold back from supporting capable partners in opportunistic attacks against ISIL, or conducting such missions directly, whether by strikes from the air or direct action on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Jack Murphy, former 75 Rangers and later a Green Beret working in Iraq, some time in Kurdistan, co-author of "The New York Times"' bestseller "Benghazi: The Definitive Report."

Jack, awesome to have you on. Thank you for your service.

JACK MURPHY, FORMER U.S. ARMY RANGER: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: The news today about possibly shifting to the front lines, I imagine specifically special forces, your read on that initially.

MURPHY: Well, I think there's been a lot of consternation within the CIA, within the Department of Defense and all the way up to the White House in dragging their feet and not wanting to get involved in another quagmire in the Middle East.

[15:05:02]

But this signals a clear representation that they are willing to take that step that, they realize that they have to take that step in order to deal with ISIS, that we're going to have to put some boots on the ground. It will probably be a light footprint, but we're going to have to do something a little bit more decisive than some wishy-washy covert action program.

BALDWIN: Talking to some folks last hour, listening to the secretary of defense, they are saying kind of murky and not a lot of details coming from him. What would we see? Would it be special ops? Do you think that with the raid in Northern Iraq, freeing those hostages, is that a preview of what could come?

MURPHY: I don't think it's a preview. I think we will probably see more American special operations raids take out some key targets within ISIS, but I think primarily what we're going to see is a deepening of the relationship between the United States military and the Kurdish YPG, particularly in the region of Rojava in Northern Syria.

Two weeks ago, there was a sizable airdrop in there, into Rojava, of 45 tons of ammunition. I think you will see much more of that. And I think perhaps what the secretary of defense was referencing was sending actual U.S. military advisers into Rojava to work with the Kurds.

BALDWIN: Something else he said, and I want your assessment on this, he talked about -- I keep saying the three R's. He mentioned Raqqa being the sort of unofficial capital of the Islamic State. You have Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province, and then raids, as in heavier -- an air campaign.

In Ramadi, they haven't made much headway. Raqqa, that is a massive undertaking.

MURPHY: Yes. Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How ambitious would that be?

MURPHY: It's very ambitious. However, the YPG has had designs on Raqqa for years now. They have been plotting and planning and they do have intentions to capture Raqqa eventually.

Now, whether or not they can do that without U.S. assistance is very questionable. I think they are going to need American support to go in and do that. It could be a very light footprint on the ground there. But I don't think the YPG will be able to do it on their own. They are going to have some sort of regional alliance or an alliance with America as a strategic partner.

BALDWIN: A little bit of criticism -- actually, I shouldn't say a little bit -- a lot of criticism today from someone who has criticized the administration, especially as far as what's happened over there, Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican. This is someone who wants to be president. This is just a piece of what he said at this hearing earlier this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I'm Assad, this is a good day for me, because the American government has just said without saying it that they are not going to fight to replace me.

What you have done, gentlemen, along with the president, is you have turned Syria over to Russia and Iran. All I can say, this is a sad day for America and the region will pay hell for this, because the Arabs are not going to accept this. The people in Syria are not going to accept this. This is a half-assed strategy at best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Half-assed strategy, brings up points about Russia and Iran, and is referencing Assad as in what's the plan, why not -- we're fighting, fighting, fighting. What about ousting him? But at the same time, you see what happened in Iraq and you see what happened in Libya.

MURPHY: Exactly. Exactly.

I think that we really don't want to overcommit.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We don't want to overcommit.

MURPHY: The United States doesn't have very many strategic interests in Syria. ISIS is at the end of the day a sideshow. Our real geopolitical threats come from China and Russia.

ISIS is going to go away eventually and we need to have a policy decision and we need a plan for a post-conflict environment in Syria. I don't think launching the Gulf War III is going to do it. I don't think it's a good idea. I think it would get us involved in another quagmire.

BALDWIN: Just on a personal level, though, you have been over there serving, a lot of guys and I'm sure gals who have as well -- the mess right now.

MURPHY: Yes. It's a huge mess. That's why I think if the Russians and the Iranians want to go in there and fight ISIS for us, we should let them do that. Good luck, guys.

BALDWIN: Jack Murphy, thank you so much.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: You laugh, but you're serious.

MURPHY: I am serious.

BALDWIN: It's totally serious.

Jack Murphy, thank you so much.

MURPHY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We are expecting President Obama to speak to police in Chicago at any minute now. Here are live pictures. We will take it as soon as we see him.

Also ahead, anger boiling across the country after this new video surfaces, look at this, showing a school resource officer tackling and dragging a female classmate out of the room. We have new details on his past and the arrest now of a second female student in the class. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:13:55]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A student didn't listen in class, did not leave when she was asked to. That's one thing. But what happened next to this one teenage girl in South Carolina has now led to an FBI civil rights investigation. And we now have this, that the sheriff wants the FBI to lead the

criminal investigation as well, all because of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to come with me or am I going to make you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Before I show you the second angle here, a little bit of backstory.

Richland County Sheriff's spokesperson said -- this happened Monday -- the student at Spring Valley High School refused to obey her teacher multiple times. She was asked to leave the classroom multiple times. She did not obey, brought in an assistant principal also present, asked her. She didn't obey.

The teacher then called in the school resource officer by the name of Deputy Ben Fields. He arrested this young woman seen in the video. And a second female student who says she was simply trying stand up, stick up for this girl who was getting restrained, she was arrested. Both were charged with disturbing schools.

[15:15:13]

Here now is another perspective, same video. Let's get reaction to all this happening here.

I have with me South Carolina State Representative Mia McLeod.

Representative McLeod, thank you so much for joining me.

STATE REP. MIA MCLEOD (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Thanks for having me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I read your Facebook post. I know you said you saw this video and it was essentially a punch in the gut for you, especially being a parent. Tell me how you felt.

MCLEOD: I was disgusted. I was livid, and I still am.

Every time I see that video, it just makes me sick. I am a parent. And have I heard from so many parents in and around my district and folks outside of the state of South Carolina that are just shocked, just as shocked and amazed by that video as all of us are.

It's unconscionable. I didn't even think that the video was real yesterday when I first got it.

BALDWIN: Really?

MCLEOD: And part of the reason for that is because the students who were in the room didn't seem to even be aware of what was -- or alarmed, rather, by what was going on around them, which said to me that this is something that they have seen before possibly, or it may be something that they were just not willing to acknowledge out of fear.

Regardless, it was wrong, it was inappropriate, it was excessive. And it's just heartbreaking and devastating for all of us.

BALDWIN: The question is why. Why? Listen, teens are mouthy, but why this physical, why this use of force? I know you have talked to the sheriff, you have talked to school board members, asking them why. What have they said to you?

MCLEOD: Right.

I have not gotten an answer. And one of the questions, as this story continues to unfold, one of the questions that I also have is, what is our policy? This is not a criminal offense. This young lady is not a criminal. She's a student. She's a child.

And what kind of message are we sending to have an officer or anyone, for that matter, any adult, to inflict that type of harm and violence upon a child? That's something that we say we don't tolerate when it comes to domestic violence. We say we don't tolerate it when it comes to child abuse.

I can't think of any other venue or any other setting where that would be appropriate, it would be the right thing to do. Obviously, the student didn't appear to be armed. She didn't appear to be a threat to her classmates. And the way this was handled was just unbelievable. I mean, it really does just shock the conscience.

BALDWIN: What's your response as far as the investigation -- and to all your points, as far as the investigation is concerned? This is the FBI taking the lead, not just on a civil rights investigation, but again hearing from the sheriff recently saying they are taking the lead on the criminal investigation as well. Your response to that.

MCLEOD: I think that's more than appropriate.

We need to get to the bottom of what went wrong here and make sure that it doesn't happen again. But, at the same time, the video itself is so telling that I felt compelled to speak out even before I know what precipitated the event.

At this point, it really doesn't matter. I don't think that my mind or my heart would be changed by knowing that she didn't put her cell phone away or she didn't leave the classroom and she was asked two or three times to do so.

In my opinion, the school -- and I'm not -- I'm definitely not trying to absolve anyone of responsibility. I think there's more than enough responsibility to go around, from the teacher who initiated the requests to have the officer assist, to the administrators, which means the school, sheriff's department, and even the students.

They all bear some semblance of responsibility, but at the same time, this student, this girl, teenage girl, is not a criminal. [15:20:08]

And she should not -- even if she were, I can think of some other criminals who have been handled with dignity and with respect, Dylann Roof, to name one, in most people's recent minds, who did something so heinous and so unconscionable, that it shook the world. When he was arrested, it was nothing like this, nothing like this. And to put -- just to deal with any child in that manner is just beyond my wildest comprehension.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's get to the bottom of this.

You, as a state representative reporting this area, Mia McLeod, let's loop back and let's see what happens and what sort of adequate or appropriate response would be and the full story here. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.

Got to go quickly now to Chicago, as we promised we would take the president live speaking there to police chiefs in Chicago. Let's dip in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your work and your service really has helped make America safer than it's been in decades.

And that's something for which every American should be proud. Now, that doesn't mean that things are perfect. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a serious and robust debate over fairness in law enforcement, over our broader criminal justice system when it comes particularly to communities of color.

I was just talking to Chief Barry (ph) before I came out, and I know that there was an outstanding discussion with the NAACP. I have talked to enough chiefs and beat cops around the country to know you care about these issues. You want to do the right thing.

And I know there are a few people -- there are few people that are more invested in declining crime rates than minority communities that so often have historically been underpoliced. They want more police presence in many of these communities, not less.

And that's why I'm confident that, in this debate, people of good will can and should find common ground. And many of you have shown that there are actions, specific actions we can take that will make a difference in moving us in that direction.

Now, first, we do need to get some facts established. So far, the data shows that, overall, violent crime rates across the nation appear to be nearly as low as they were last year, and significantly lower than they were in previous decades.

It is true that, in some cities, including here in my hometown of Chicago, gun violence and homicides have spiked, and in some cases, they have spiked significantly. But the fact is, is that so far, at least across, the nation the data shows that we are still enjoying historically low rates of violent crime.

Moreover, over the past few years, the number of police officers shot and killed in the line of duty has fallen to their lowest levels in decades. In fact, 2013 saw the fewest cops shot and killed in the line of duty since 1887.

Of course, each victim of crime is one too many. Each fallen police officer is one too many.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: I have spoken to too many families of the fallen, including right before I came out here, to not fully appreciate the pain and the hardship, the fear that so many families go through because police officers are putting themselves in the line of fire.

Moreover, because the spike in violent crime in a number of predominantly urban minority communities is real and deeply troubling, I want to make it very clear this is not something that I just think of as being academic. I live on the South Side of Chicago, so my house is pretty close to some places where shootings take place.

[15:25:28]

Because that's real, we have got to get on top of it before it becomes an accelerating trend. And that's why I have asked my outstanding attorney general, Loretta Lynch, a former prosecutor, to work aggressively with law enforcement and prosecutors and leaders in these communities to find out exactly why is this happening and then target resources where they will have an impact.

So, for the remainder of the time that I'm in this office, and then as a private citizen, I will do everything that I can to encourage cooperation and work hard to make sure that the work that's being done by law enforcement is appreciated and supported and that we maintain this incredible progress that we have made in terms of reducing crime.

BALDWIN: A quick break, Obama speaking to police chiefs there in Chicago, talking to them about his own background growing up on the South Side of the city.

Want to hear more from him. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)