Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
GOP Candidates Face Off in Third Debate; Debate Winners and Losers; Discussing Third GOP Deabte Results. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired October 29, 2015 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:05] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you, Anderson.
Everyone in Washington, D.C. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. Welcome to our viewers right here in the United States and of course around the world.
GOP one, CNBC nothing. Was the network the loser in tonight's big debate? Here to talk about it, CNN's Dana Bash, David Chalian, Gloria Borger and Dylan Byers.
Hello to all of you.
Dana Bash, to you first. Because I've been watching you, and you've been listening to all the -- you're in the spin room and talking to many of the candidates. What are they saying to you?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it depends on who it is. I think probably the most interesting conversation that I had tonight was with Jeb Bush because he had a moment, a series of moments with Marco Rubio that, you know, was kind of the time for Jeb Bush to shine and maybe knock Marco Rubio out of his lane, so to speak. And it didn't seem to happen. Jeb Bush went after Marco Rubio pretty forcefully on the idea of him missing votes. And Rubio turned it around pretty artfully.
And that was certainly the sort of buzz on the Internet and so forth. So when I asked Jeb Bush about that, I also asked in the context of what one of our friends Ana Navarro was saying on CNN, which is that even she as a staunch Bush supporter and a very good friend of his was a little bleak tonight. Listen to our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: What do you say to people like -- not just Ana, but others who support you and love you and want you to be president, but just -- maybe not frustrated, but are concerned that you're not getting over the hump when it comes to the campaigning part of it.
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a long haul, Ana. Hang in there, girl. It's a long haul, baby. We've got a few more debates to go. I'm out campaigning everybody. I'm working hard. We're raising the resources. We're going to be -- we have the best ground game in these early states. And President Cain, President Clinton, when she got beat by Barack Obama, Giuliani, a whole list of people were leading in October of the year before the primaries. And we got a long way to go. And I feel confident where we are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now the other issue with Jeb Bush, Don, has been all along that he certainly has a record to talk about. What he says is a -- you know, a conservative record in Florida, that despite his name, he is an outsider. He's never worked in Washington. But the problem has been even his supporters say this, that his inability to really communicate that on a national level via television, which is kind of how you have to do it when you're running for the presidency. And his answer was, I'm not running to be a performer. I'm running to be president.
LEMON: Yes.
BASH: And so I think that was very telling. I told him I thought he seemed quite frustrated. But he says, you know, no, he is just kind of keeping on keeping on. But I think certainly that was one of the moments that I think maybe we'll all be looking back on in the debate as a turning point perhaps for not just Jeb Bush, but Marco Rubio.
LEMON: Yes. He said he's running to be president, not the entertainer-in-chief I think was pretty close to the quote that he said. And I was actually surprised that he, hey, girled, Ana Navarro. Hey, girl.
So, Dana, you know, you also caught up with Donald Trump in the spin room. What did Donald Trump have to say?
BASH: You know, there was a lot of talk about this debate, you know, Republicans not being happy with it. Jeb Bush is a good example, that he didn't get as many questions as he had hoped, particularly substantive questions because he was prepared to talk about fiscal issues, tax policy. That's what CNBC advertised the debate to be about. But Trump was kind of OK with the way things went. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: How are you going to get back on top in Iowa?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am on top -- oh, in Iowa?
BASH: Yes.
TRUMP: I was there the other night. I think we're going to be on top. If you saw my speech, I was --
BASH: I did. I did. I saw it.
TRUMP: It was a lovefest. I think we're going to win Iowa. I think we're going to do great with Iowa.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. That was CNN's Dana Bash there. And I think Dana is working on getting Sean Spicer for us, the spokesperson for the RNC. And there she is. Did you get him, Dana?
BASH: You know, I didn't. You're kind of putting me on the spot.
LEMON: No, that's OK. We'll move on. You try to get --
BASH: I think the answer is -- the answer is no. The answer is that he is being a good spokesman and says that his boss' comments are going to speak for themselves tonight.
LEMON: OK.
BASH: And I know we played them earlier. And I'm sure you'll play them later this evening. But one of the things I just want to quickly say about Donald Trump is the reason why -- you know, the question that we just played there was about Iowa and the fact that, you know, he's got to get back on top. But I think that the reason why he said that he was so happy with the debate is because the name of the game for him and also Ben Carson was to get out of this unscathed.
[00:05:06] And the fact is that he wasn't the center of attention. He wasn't a central theme of this debate like he has been in the past, too. And that's a good thing if your Donald Trump trying to kind of stay above it all right now.
LEMON: All right. Thank you. And he says -- when he says his boss, he means, because --
BASH: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: His boss, Reince Priebus was critical of the debate, saying that --
BASH: His boss is the Republican --
LEMON: Yes.
BASH: Exactly, the RNC chair, exactly.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Dana. Stand by.
Mr. Byers, the media definitely got slammed during and after this debate. I want you to listen to this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN HARWOOD, CNBC DEBATE MODERATOR: Is this a comic book version of a presidential campaign?
TRUMP: It's not a comic book, and it's not a very nicely asked question the way you say that.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media.
TRUMP: If anything comes out of this whole thing with some of these nasty and ridiculous questions --
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You just listed a litany of discredited attacks from Democrats and my political opponents. And I'm not going to waste 60 seconds detailing them all.
TRUMP: Such a nasty question that.
DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is total propaganda.
RUBIO: The Democrats have the ultimate super PAC. It's called the mainstream media, who every single day --
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm wearing a Trump tie tonight. Get over that one, OK?
(CROSSTALK)
HARWOOD: Senator Paul, I've got a question for you on the same subject.
CRUZ: You don't actually want to hear the answer, John? You don't want to hear the answer? You just want to insult me?
HARWOOD: You used your time on something else. Senator Paul --
CRUZ: You're not interested in an answer.
TRUMP: You people write this stuff. I don't know where you --
RUBIO: You wrote a story on it, and you had to go back --
HARWOOD: No, I did not.
RUBIO: You did.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Out of government? No. John, do you want me to answer or do you want to answer? Even in New Jersey what you're doing is called rude.
CARL QUINTANILLA, CNBC DEBATE MODERATOR: Does that not speak to your investigate process or judgment in any way?
CARSON: No. It speaks to the fact that I don't know --
(CROWD BOOING)
CARSON: See, they know.
TRUMP: That is absolutely not right. You know that. That is not right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right, so, Dylan, this is a common conservative tactic. But I mean, that was just the tip of the iceberg.
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, that was the tip of the iceberg. I mean, right. So attacking the media is a tried and true conservative tactic. It's red meat for the conservative base. But look, this took it to a whole new level. I mean, CNBC and the mainstream media generally just, you know, got it handed to itself. I mean, we haven't seen anything like this, this cycle. It certainly called to mind some of the more robust media attacks of the 2012 cycle.
But look, there is a cardinal rule about moderating a political debate, whether it's a primary debate or a presidential debate or any debate. You do not make the story about you. And coming out of this debate, what everyone is talking about, at least from where I'm sitting, even more than how Rubio did or how Bush did or how Trump or Carson did is how badly CNBC did. And I think that's, you know, the unanimous view of journalists and political strategists. And certainly of the Republican National Committee. And I don't know if Dana even needs to track down Sean Spicer, because his boss Reince Priebus already came out and lambasted CNBC for its performance.
LEMON: Yes. We've got that. Let's listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REINCE PRIEBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I'm proud of our candidates for standing up to a pretty hostile environment. I was very disappointed in the moderators. I'm disappointed in CNBC. I thought maybe they would bring forward a pretty fair forum here tonight. But I think it was one gotcha question, one personal low blow after the other. It's almost like they tried to design a Rubik's cube for every question to take the worst element I think of what moderators and what the media should bring to the table.
And all I can tell you is that while I'm proud of our candidates for pretty much sticking together, I'm very disappointed in the moderators, and I'm very disappointed with CNBC.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Gloria Borger, you ever have seen the RNC react like that after a debate?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, but if I were Reince Priebus, I would be OK with all of this because the CNBC debate had the effect of uniting all the Republicans against the media, which is something that works really, really well with the base. That's one of the reasons why Donald Trump didn't come out and blast the debate, even though he called some of the questions nasty during the debate. He didn't have to.
It was already -- all the other candidates were doing it. Reince Priebus was doing it. There was no reason for Trump to do it. And by the way, he had already blasted the debate before the debate. But he was smart enough to know once it was over, he didn't need to carry the lead on that because other people were doing it. And so if you're a Republican and you're looking for who you want to vote for in the primary, and it gave all of these candidates an opportunity to have a mutual enemy.
[00:10:03] And I think it worked for all the candidates. In particular, I think it worked for Ted Cruz. It started with Marco Rubio, who took on the media, and then Cruz carried the torch. And the others followed. And I think it gave Cruz a terrific debate tonight.
LEMON: David, let's talk about the people up there on the stage more specifically, aside from bashing the media as a whole and CNBC in particular, who stood out to you? Was it Ted Cruz? Was it Marco Rubio, Chris Christie?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: All three of the guys you just mentioned, Don, had very good nights. But the standout performance to me is Marco Rubio's. And I don't think we can sort of overstate how important this night was for Marco Rubio. I think it could be a potential dynamic shift in the race in that establishment wing where it's really been a battle between Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio.
Marco Rubio clearly besting Jeb Bush tonight, delivering a body blow to him at a very precarious time in his campaign. And Rubio comes out shining. You could just see the Republican establishment that's been worried about Jeb Bush just starting to gravitate towards Rubio.
LEMON: You think this is going to be the new tactic, Dylan, taking on the media? It started with Donald Trump. It started to work where he said people were taking him out of context, and he -- you know, he started going after the media. And then Ben Carson started to do it. Do you think that's going to be the tactic? But then tonight, everyone at the debate. I mean, in the entire campaign has started with Donald Trump. Do you think that's going to be the go-to tactic?
BYERS: Sure. Yes, I don't think there is any question. I mean, look, Americans' trust in the media is reaching all-time lows. Certainly conservatives' views on the media are not positive. So, yes, it will be something that we'll see more of. But, you know, again, it has a shelf life, right? It's clear that attacking the media, in addition to being a convenient strategy is also one that you use to sometimes sort of skirt a question, circumvent a question.
We saw -- look, Ted Cruz complained that the moderators weren't focusing on serious issues. They asked him about the debt ceiling. That was his decision to spend that time talking about the media not giving him a fair shake. So look, voters aren't dumb. They'll get used to those attacks. But sure, we're going to see more of those down the line, no question.
LEMON: And Governor Christie seized on this question to Jeb Bush about fantasy football. I want you guys to listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUINTANILLA: Governor Bush, daily fantasy sports has become a phenomenon in this country. Will award billions of dollars in prize money this year. But to play, you have to assess your odds, put money at risk, wait for an outcome that's out of your control. Isn't that the definition of gambling and should the federal government treat it as such?
BUSH: Well, first of all, I'm 7-0 in my fantasy football league.
(LAUGHTER)
QUINTANILLA: I had a feeling you were going to brag about that.
BUSH: Gronkowski is still going strong. I have Ryan Tannehill, Marco, as my quarterback. He was 18 for 19 last week. So I'm doing great. But we're not gambling. And I think this has become something that needs to be looked at in terms of regulation. Effectively, it's day trading without any regulation at all.
(CROSSTALK)
RUBIO: Can I interject --
CHRISTIE: Carl, are we really talking -- are we really talking about getting the government involved in fantasy football? Wait a second. We have $19 trillion in debt. We have people out of work. We have ISIS in al Qaeda attacking us, and we're talking about fantasy football? Can we stop? Can we stop?
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
CHRISTIE: How about this? How about we get the government to do what they're supposed to be doing? Secure our border, protect our people, and support American values and American families. Enough on fantasy football. Let people play, who cares?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Gloria, it seems like Christie saw this coming. He's like, here's my opportunity when it was actually a fun moment for Jeb Bush. Yes.
BORGER: It -- first of all, it was a light moment for Jeb Bush. And that was good for him. And I thought it was a great moment for Chris Christie. Who said are you kidding me, right? We have serious problems. And, again, as a Republican who doesn't want to over- regulate, why do we need to do that? It was a way for him to distinguish himself from Jeb Bush.
The problem that Chris Christie has, and it's kind of puzzling, is that he has had some great sort of moments in these debates. He just doesn't get enough time. And he can't build on it once he's off the debate stage. I think it's very frustrating for his campaign. It's very frustrating for Chris Christie because he can sort of shine at times like this, which I would argue he did tonight. But the problem is building on it in a state like New Hampshire, where he's got an awful lot of competition.
LEMON: All right. Stay with me, everyone. When we come right back, one of Jeb Bush's top supporters. Plus debate winners and losers. The candidates come out swinging. But one of their main targets wasn't even on the stage tonight.
[00:15:04] How Hillary Clinton is reacting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Sparks are flying in tonight's GOP debate. Now I want to bring in a man who has endorsed Jeb Bush and is working with his campaign. That's Oklahoma attorney general, Scott Pruitt.
Thanks for joining us, Mr. Pruitt, this evening, or this morning here on the East Coast. You've endorsed Jeb Bush now. How do you think he did?
SCOTT PRUITT, JEB BUSH SUPPORTER: Yes, good evening. Good morning, as the case may be, Don. And I think tonight in this debate the governor did I think an effective job at presenting ideas. I think what we need to notice as we go through this campaign is that Governor Bush has been very thoughtful, very deliberative about putting real ideas out in the marketplace, advancing how we're going to do better and change the trajectory of what we see nationally.
And when you have 11 people on the stage sometimes it's very difficult to get that message out in an effective way. But I thought tonight he did so and he's going to continue to do that on a day-to-day basis on the campaign trail.
LEMON: You know, Attorney General, a lot of people thought that he needed to take on Donald Trump tonight, but instead he took on Marco Rubio. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I'm a constituent of the senator and I helped him and I expected that he would do constituent service, which means that he shows up to work. He got endorsed by the "Sun Sentinel" because he was the most talented guy in the field. He is a gifted politician.
But, Marco, when you signed up for this, this was a six-year term. And you should be showing up to work. I mean, literally, the Senate, what is it, like a French workweek? You get like three days where you have to show up? You can campaign, or just resign and let someone else take the job.
[00:20:06] RUBIO: The only reason why you're doing it now is because we're running for the same position. And someone has convinced you that attacking me is going to help you.
BUSH: I've been --
RUBIO: Here's the bottom line. I'm not -- my campaign is going to be about the future of America. It's not going to be about attacking anyone else on the stage. I will continue to have tremendous admiration and respect for Governor Bush. I'm not running against Governor Bush. I'm not running against anyone on the stage. I'm running for president, because there is no way we can elect Hillary Clinton to continue the policy of --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Senator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Over the weekend it came up that the Bush campaign gave a presentation where they called Marco Rubio the GOP Obama. And then you have this sort of interaction tonight. Is Marco Rubio a bigger threat to Jeb's chances than Trump or Carson?
PRUITT: I mean, I don't think, Don, that the governor, the campaign look at it that way. I think what we have to look at and understand is that ideas matter. And getting those ideas passed matters. And when you look at that stage, and you look at the record of each of the individuals on that stage, Jeb Bush, more so than anybody on the stage, has governed more conservatively than anybody else, and has got things done.
I mean, this country today, we have way too many issues being decided in Washington, D.C. It's become way too consequential. Part of the reason I'm working with Governor Bush is he understands there needs to be a structural reset in how we do business in this country that is consistent with the constitutional framework. When you look at banking and the finance sector, Dodd-Frank literally has transformed how we access capital, how we borrow money to buy homes and access credit lines for business.
When you look at the health care context, the Affordable Care Act has drastically changed how we access health care. Doctors, the merger activity that's happening with the writers. And you look at the energy sector. The renaissance that is occurring across this country. Literally the only thing that is standing in the way of the renaissance across this country is government in Washington, D.C. It's become way too consequential.
The governor understands that. Understands that we need to reset how we do business, empower the states instead of displacing the states. And that's consistent with both federal law and the constitution. And he is speaking to it in a very thoughtful way.
LEMON: All right. Let's get back to what happened on stage and at the debate tonight, his performance. Dana Bash caught up with him in the spin room and asked him about his frustration. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: You seem quite frustrated.
BUSH: Nope, not frustrated.
BASH: No?
BUSH: No. I wish I had again questions on -- you know, got the answer questions on things that are on the minds of people, you know, entitlement challenges, the debt. I got fantasy football.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So he said originally that he wanted to campaign with joy in his heart. But, you know, with all respect to the candidates, he doesn't seem like he is feeling that way these days. He does seem frustrated.
PRUITT: You know, I think if you see the governor on the campaign trail, though, Don, in fact we were talking about it just a little bit ago. The interaction that he has with voters in those town hall settings, the informal dialogue with those voters, the unscripted moments that that presents, he's speaking from the heart, he's speaking from conviction, he's speaking from the ideas that he has on how to transform this country and how to set the trajectory in a different way.
I mean, that's who he really is. And I think what's really disappointing when you watch these debates, and tonight was particularly acute, I mean, I was in the audience. There was actually booing as you know that took place as we went to break a couple of times with respect to the inquisitorial type of attitude that the moderators represented.
And it's almost like this has become political entertainment. We have very serious issues as a country that we need to deal with. And we need to make sure that we have real serious ideas that we're debating and discussing on how we fix a multitude of things. And the governor is doing that rather consistently. And I think this type of format at times doesn't feed that because of the political entertainment that drives it.
LEMON: All right. Scott Pruitt, Oklahoma attorney general, I thank you so much. I appreciate you joining us this evening or this morning, whatever the case may be.
When we come right back, the GOP versus CNBC. Who is the winner after tonight's debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:27:57] LEMON: Our breaking news tonight. Fireworks at the third Republican presidential debate. Who stood out and who didn't? Let's talk about it now with Jennifer Granholm, the former Democratic governor of Michigan who is a supporter of Hillary Clinton, and Republican strategist Kevin Madden who has worked for Mitt Romney's campaign among others. We saw him in the background earlier when Dana Bash, you know, was doing her report from the floor.
Kevin, to you first. The first question tonight was, what is your weakness. So who was weak tonight. That's my first question to you.
(LAUGHTER)
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I think Jeb Bush clearly needed a breakout performance tonight to reverse the trajectory that he has been on over the last two weeks. And I don't think he got that. You know, the Rubio folks right now, when you talk to them, they feel very strongly that that moment worked in Marco Rubio's favor. And it didn't work for Jeb Bush. So I think he -- he tended not to have a great night.
I think there are a lot of folks, too, I mean, you can look at the two frontrunners, Ben Carson and Donald Trump, in the early state polls and leading in some of the national polls, they didn't -- thye weren't -- they didn't really have any breakout moments either. They didn't command or really drive the tone and tempo of the debate the way they have in past debates. So for them, I don't think it hurt them, but they clearly didn't have the real great moments that they had in past debates.
LEMON: Yes. They did not have any moments, and did not get lots of time tonight. Both Carson and Donald Trump.
Governor Granholm, I want you to listen to this. This is from Marco Rubio, what he said about Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBIO: The Democrats have the ultimate super PAC. It's called the mainstream media. Who every single day --
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
RUBIO: And I'll tell you why. Last week Hillary Clinton went before a committee. She admitted she had sent e-mails to her family saying hey, this attack in Benghazi was caused by al Qaeda-like elements. She spent over a week telling the families of those victims and the American people that it was because of a video. And yet the mainstream media is going around saying it was the greatest week in Hillary Clinton's campaign.
[00:30:00] It was the week she got exposed as a liar. It was the week that she got exposed as a liar.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
RUBIO: But she has her super PAC helping her out, the American mainstream media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Hillary Clinton definitely the other person up on the stage tonight, Governor. What is your response?
JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D-MI), former GOVERNOR: Yes, no, I mean, they attacked her, clearly. She was mentioned something like 16 or 18 times, but here is what was interesting to me, Don, is that they attacked Hillary Clinton. They attacked the moderators. They attacked the mainstream media. They attacked each other. They were fighting, fighting, fighting. But I don't feel like the American people were fought for. I mean, what do they come away with this? They talked about cutting the benefits for Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. They talk about "tax cuts", but the tax cuts they're talking about are cutting the estate tax, which, of course, is just benefitting the wealthy or cutting the investment income tax, which of course is the capital gains tax, benefitting the wealthy. I feel like the Average Joe or Average Josephine didn't feel like they were being fought for, and I think that's the problem for them.
LEMON: I want to show you, I don't know if you've seen it. This is what Hillary Clinton tweeted at the end of the debate tonight, the picture of her at the end of -- at the Benghazi Hearing last week, just sort of sitting there and making a face and brushing off her shoulder.
GRANHOLM: And there's no doubt --
LEMON: Governor Granhol -- go ahead.
GRANHOLM: I was just going to say, Don, there is no doubt that the reason why people think she did a good job is because she sat there for 11 hours and withstood these assaults and came out looking presidential, and came out looking strong and looking like she could take this battle on; she could take the battle on behalf of everyday citizens.
LEMON: What did you make of that tweet, Kevin?
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I didn't see the tweet, but, look, I think -- Hillary Clinton -- one of the contrasts I noticed tonight was Hillary Clinton still has this problem with - she still has a problem with the trust issue with many voters, but she also has this problem with relatability. Folks don't really relate to her. I mean, look, she hasn't driven a car in 25 years. So I don't think she really understands the problems of people in everyday America.
I think one of the things that the candidates did very well, and particularly Marco Rubio, Mike Huckabee, John Kasich, they were much more relatable. I think they spoke to a lot of the voter anxieties about the economy. They spoke to a lot of the -- their vision for how they want to take the economy in a different direction, that's different from the last eight years that we've seen under President Obama, and how they wouldn't have basically a third term with Hillary Clinton in office. So that was one of the big contrasts I think worked in the favor, worked for republicans tonight.
All right, Kevin, thank you very much; and also, Governor Granholm. Ben Carson's rising in the polls, but did he help himself tonight with his answers on the economy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WORLD SPORTS AIRED)
[00:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
I'm the only one on this stage that has a plan.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am the only person in either campaign that is self-funding.
GOV. BOBBY JINDAL, (R-LA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the only one that has cut the size of government. I'm the one on this stage, and frankly on both stages, that has actually gone to Washington.
GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE, (R-AR), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:, I'm the only guy on this stage, you know how everybody has an only guy. I'm the only guy this, I'm the only guy that. Let me tell you one thing I am the only guy, the only guy that has consistently fought the Clinton machine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And the only guy who is going to be moderating this next panel. So they were all there on the one. They tried to distinguish themselves from each other at this debate tonight. I want to bring in Bob Beckel. He's the author of "I Should Be Dead, My Life Surviving Politics, TV and Addiction"; Amanda Carpenter, former Communications Director for Senator Ted Cruz; Ryan Lizza, Washington Correspondent for "The New Yorker"; Buck Sexton, National Security Editor for "The Blaze". Van Jones, the former Obama Administration official; and Carl Bernstein, author of "A Woman In Charge: The Life Of Hillary Rodham Clinton." And that's all the time we have for this particular panel.
[Laughter]
So I just want to go around the horn here to see who you guys think won this debate tonight. I'll start with you, Mr. Beckel.
BOB BECKEL, AUTHOR, I SHOULD BE DEAD ...: I think Rubio won. CNBC lost, and I'm the only guy that went fishing for eight hours and didn't catch a fish.
LEMON: Buck Sexton?
BUCK SEXTON, EDITOR, "THE BLAZE": I think Bob Beckel's right, which is just stunning me for a second here. Rubio did win, had the best overall performance. I think the best moment of the night though went to Ted Cruz when he went after the media. it turned the whole momentum of the discussion around.
LEMON: You sound like you have been in a smoky room.
SEXTON: I'm allergic to CNBC's nonsense tonight, Don; that's all.
LEMON: You? You? Adding on to the Republican and Reince Priebus bandwagon, jumping on that. Okay, Amanda, what about you?
AMANDA CARPENTER, former COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, SEN. TED CRUZ: I'm going the say the Tea Party won the debate because everybody is talking about a Cruz versus Rubio matchup in the primary, two candidates who were brought to the Senate with Tea Party support.
LEMON: Van Jones?
VAN JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I've been saying Rubio is going to break out. I think he did it tonight, but I have to say Ted Cruz was frighteningly good tonight. It wasn't just that one moment where we had the breakout. I think he was strong overall. Ted Cruz is coming on now.
LEMON: All right, Ryan Lizza?
RYAN LIZZA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm the only one who is going to tell you who lost because I agree with everyone on Rubio winning. I thought that Rand Paul and Mike Huckabee were basically nonentities at the debate. And, everyone is talking about whether Jeb is now on a death watch. You have to wonder if either of those have a case for moving on after this.
LEMON: And last but certainly not least, Mr. Bernstein?
CARL BERNSTEIN, AUTHOR, "A WOMAN IN CHARGE...": I think it's a bad, bad night for Jeb Bush. I think it was a bad night for Trump and for Carson. They didn't deliver the way they were expected to. More than anything, MSNBC -- I'm sorry, CNBC was really reprehensible, but we got a real look at the Republican Party for the first time. Their anti-government message is really picking up steam and the Democrats got to pay attention to it. They're right about the mainstream media. We in the mainstream media need to be reading the right wing press more, looking online. I look at it, because it is a very different universe than we talk about and there are a lot of people out there that adhere to it.
[00:40:00]
LEMON: Okay, so let's get into specifics, into candidates more. Amanda, Dr. Ben Carson, we know he is leading in Iowa right now, but did he prove that he has a grasp on the complexities of issues like the economy?
CARPENTER: Absolutely not. He had a primetime opportunity when he was asked about his economic plan, and he was very vague on the specifics, saying, well, it might be 10 or 15-percent, somewhere in there. It was a really bad exchange for CNBC as well because, you know, Becky Quick said I've done the math on it. It doesn't work. She didn't really back it up. Ben Carson said well, I know it does work. He couldn't back it up. It was a failure on both ends but will have longer term impact for Ben Carson because this kind of gets into the larger narrative about his that, you know, he is very intelligent when it comes to medicine, but that intelligence doesn't translate to politics.
LEMON: All right. Ryan Lizza, let's talk about Donald Trump right now. He was asked about guns, let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MODERATOR: Would you feel more comfortable if your employees brought guns to work?
TRUMP: Yes, I might feel more comfortable. I would say that I would, and I have a permit, which is very unusual in New York, a permit to carry, and I do carry on occasion, sometimes a lot, but I like to be unpredictable so that people don't -- by the way, unlike our country where we're totally predictable and the enemy, whether it's ISIS or anybody else, they know exactly what we're doing because we have the wrong leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Ryan, that was one of the most interesting exchanges for me and how he pivoted to, you know, to terror and foreign policy.
LIZZA: Yes.
LEMON: Was he his usual, predictable self or do you think he - do you think he still deserves to be the frontrunner?
LIZZA: Well he has used that line before, about having a concealed carry permit and it being unusual in New York. I know a lot of people who are into guns and I've never heard them say that I carry a lot. I didn't know exactly what that meant. The more you watch him, the more you do realize he is like a typical politician, in the sense that he does have a few set piece lines that he regurgitates again and again. And look, don, you've heard me say this on your show many times, Donald Trump is not going to be the Republican nominee. Donald Trump is not going to be the Republican nominee. The only thing -- the story of how Donald Trump ends up not being the Republican nominee hasn't been written yet; but I think we got a little closer to seeing how it might happen with Ted Cruz, who had a very strong performance tonight, sort of moving in to that lane. Ted Cruz has been drafting, like in NASCAR you kind of sit behind the frontrunner and then you come out ahead, around a curve, that's what he has been doing with Donald Trump. He's sort of poised to pick up that Trump support when Trump inevitably collapses. I think you've started to see the contours of a lot of what people have been talking about with Ted Cruz being the populist, hitting that populist lane and Marco Rubio perhaps taking over the Jeb establishment lane, and you just start to see glimmers of that coming debate.
LEMON: Okay, so you think, let me check that you don't think Donald Trump is going to be the republican nominee. Since you mentioned Marco Rubio, Buck, I want to ask you this, he said that he won; so let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY QUICK, MODERATOR: Senator Rubio, you yourself have said that you've had issues. You have a lack of bookkeeping skills. You accidentally intermingled campaign money with your personal money. You faced foreclosure on a second home that you bought. And just last year, you liquidated a $68,000 retirement fund. That's something that cost you thousands of dollars in taxes and penalties. In terms of all of that, it raises the question whether you have the maturity and the wisdom to lead this $17 trillion economy. What do you say?
RUBIO: Well, you just listed a litany of discredited attacks from Democrats and my political opponents, and I'm not going to waste 60 seconds detailing them all, but I'm going to tell you the truth. Here is the truth: I didn't inherit any money. My dad was a bartender. my mother was a maid. They worked hard to provide us the chance at a better life. They didn't save enough for us to go school. I had to work my way through school. I had to borrow money to go to school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, again, you said that he won. He immediately pivoted to his personal story. Was this a winning moment for you?
LIZZA: It absolutely was a winning moment for Marco Rubio. He showed that he was able to be both firm but also very relatable and likable. Look, that question, by the way, was preposterous. It was among the more preposterous and offensive questions than any of the candidates faced all night, and there were a whole bunch to choose from by the way, and Marco Rubio, because he is so skilled on that stage managed --
LEMON: Why is that, when it comes to dealing with finances? Why do you think it's preposterous?
LIZZA: It's preposterous -- he liquidated a retirement account that cost him a few thousand dollars. That's the kind of thing that a lot of people do when they're making financial decisions for a household. I mean, this is normal stuff that we're talking about. It's not like he is running up huge gambling debts in Vegas and left his family destitute. It's a nonsense thing to bring up in that discussion.
[00:45:00]
People have already seen, by the way, the super fancy speed boat that he bought. They were saying that was over-extended, until we saw the photo, and people said, yeah, looks like a nice fishing boat. The guy wanted a fishing boat. It's not a big deal. But it also gave him an opportunity to talk about his personal story, which is very compelling. He is not riding on anybody's coattails. He is not part of a political dynasty. He is an individual who, through his skill, which we all realize is considerable in politics, his rhetorical skills are exceptional, really only matched by Ted Cruz on the stage. His skills are what's brought him to this point. He is completely self-made. His story is really the American story. It's inspiring. I think that's what we saw and I think that will resonate with people. I hope he gets something of a bump in the polls, just as some sort of a reward for doing so well.
I don't know, Ben Carson and Trump didn't do a great job but I think their numbers are going to hang close to where they were.
LEMON: Okay, I want to move on and get -- I want to get all the candidates in here. So, Bob, I want to talk about Governor Mike Huckabee now, who was asked about Donald Trump. Things got interesting, pretty interesting. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MODERATOR: Governor Huckabee, you have written about the huge divide in values between Middle America in the big coastal cities like New York and Los Angeles. As a preacher as well as a politician, you know that presidents need the moral authority to bring the entire country together. the leading republican candidate, when you look at the average of national polls right now, is Donald Trump. When you look at him, do you see someone with the moral authority to unite the country?
[ booing ]
HUCKABEE: You know --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unreal.
HUCKABEE: -- as few questions I got, the last one I need is to give him some more time. I love Donald Trump, he is a good man. I'm wearing a Trump tie tonight. Get over that one, okay?
JEB BUSH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Is it made in Mexico?
HUCKABEE: I don't know.
BUSH: Is it made in China or Mexico?
HUCKABEE: I have no idea.
(CROSS TALK)
TRUMP: That is, by the way, such a nasty, such a nasty question, but thank you, Governor.
HUCKABEE: You're welcome. Let me tell you, Donald Trump would be a better president every day of the week and twice on Sunday, rather than Hillary. I've spent a lifetime in politics fighting the Clinton machine. You want to talk about what we're going to be up against next year?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Bob, what do you think?
BECKEL: Oh, I think it was sort of a humorous exchange, but I don't think it meant anything. Look, Donald Trump and Ben Carson is Groundhog Day. we hear the same thing over and over and over again, and the closer you get to voting, the more people are going to want them to begin to at least be able to explain their position. But this was a donor debate tonight. I've been around presidential politics a long time and donors begin to get very nervous right now. Jeb Bush's donors are very nervous. They didn't come out of here tonight feeling very good about it. And the Rubio-Bush thing comes down to this, whoever emerges from Florida, between the two of them, whoever wins that state is going to go on and go on Super Tuesday. The other one is going to be out. He may not be out officially, but they're going to be out. because they cannot afford to have two people from one state, that big a state, running on through the rest of the primaries. Right now if you had to bet, you would say Rubio would beat Bush in Florida. LEMON: All right. You didn't get a chance to talk, don't worry about
it.
LIZZA: That assumes Jeb is going to make to the primary, though, Bob.
LEMON: You're going to get a chance to talk in the next segment, so stand by, everyone. When we come back, Chris Christie got fiery in this debate. We're going to talk about him, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:50:00]
LEMON: Back now with my super panel here. The next question goes to Van Jones. John Kasich is a candidate. He tried to make the case for experience and moderation. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot elect somebody that doesn't know how to do the job. You got to pick somebody who has experience, somebody that has the know-how, the discipline.
TRUMP: This was a man that was a managing general partner at Lehman Brothers when it went down the tubes and almost took every one of us with him, including Ben and myself, because I was there and I watched what happened. and Lehman Brothers started it all. He was on the board, and he was a managing general partner. and just thirdly, he was so nice. he was such a nice guy. he said oh, I'm never going to attack but then his poll numbers tanked, he's got (inaudible), that's why he is on the end, and he got nasty. And he got nasty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You know, van, he tried. Was that enough to get voters to take a second look at him as a moderate alternative?
VAN JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, (A) I don't think so. It's so sad. First of all, he is the only person on the stage who spoke remotely intelligently and compassionately about immigration. Just by the way, it turns out that you got a big voting bloc out there that Republicans need to repair some damage with. He is the only one even trying.
Look, I think he winds up being somebody who they look at as possibly a VP, once they finish fighting this thing out, but he does not have a constituency in his party. Let's not forget, he is very, very conservative. How did this guy, who as much as I love Newt Gingrich, this guy is to the right of Newt Gingrich. how this guy winds up being called a moderate when you look at his record, it just shows how far the Republican Party has gone over the edge into the right
wing crazy stuff. but I think, unfortunately, a guy as accomplish as him has no place in the party except, possibly, as a VP to repair some damage done by this party with Latinos and others.
LEMON: Hey, Carl, I've heard that --
BERNSTEIN: Yes, he's the number one candidate for vice president.
LEMON: But I've heard, too, as well that Carly Fiorina, this is essentially a vice presidential run for her. She fought her way on to this big stage. She needed to prove tonight that early surge wasn't just a fluke. How do you think she did?
BERNSTEIN: I think she did well because she embraced the same issues in almost the same way as Bernie Sanders did. She sounded off a warning about plutocracy, about the wealthy, the connected, the banks controlling America. Now her answer is that it's leading us to socialism, but at the same time something profound is happening when the Republican Party and several of its candidates, like Fiorina, like Cruz, embrace a truly radical notion about we are burdened by plutocracy in this country and at the same time the Democrats are saying the same thing, though Hillary herself is a bit of a plutocrat. It's a problem for Hillary Clinton. If one of these other people is the Republican nominee, it could be very difficult with this message that they're fomenting right now.
[00:55:00]
LEMON: Hey, Ryan, let's talk now about Chris Christie because he wasn't taking any smack from anybody, including the moderators tonight. He got questions about, of course, he talked about Donald Trump. He talked about the environment. He talked about a number of things, but do you think that he is -- did he prove himself even within his -- I don't want to say anger, but with his stern demeanor?
LIZZA: Yes, he's got this shtick where he, in the debates, where he does this outrage thing, right, so what everyone else is talking about, he sort of gets up there and says why are we talking about this? the real issue is whatever is on Chris Christie's mind. Tonight it was about - what was it gambling or fantasy football or something?
LEMON: Fantasy football.
LIZZA: It's pretty good. It's pretty effective. I think he, at some point, will get another look. He's got a little bit more of a moderate record in New Jersey than where the Republican electorate is right now. We're pretty far away from the voting and I still think that, with a few exceptions, a number of these candidates are going to go through a cycle or two of interest and he's probably due some point before the voting starts.
JONES: Don -
LEMON: Van, I've got the take a break.
JONES: But, Don, you know, I think -
LEMON: We're going to have more -- we're going to have more right after this break. Thank you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
