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Russian Plane Crash in Egypt Killed All 224 People On Board; El Faro May Have Been Found; Powerful Weekend Storm Left at Least Six People Dead in Texas; GOP Campaigns To Meet Tonight Over Debate Format; Cruz: Debate Moderatos Should Be Republicans; Lesbian Couple Arrested After Kiss. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired November 01, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:13] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me in the NEWSROOM. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin with new developments in the Russian plane crash in Egypt that killed all 224 people on board. Russian aviation officials now say the airliner broke into pieces in midair. This is new video of the crash site of Russian aviation officials said fragments of the plane are scattered around seven square miles on the Sinai Peninsula. Right now nothing has been ruled out as to the cause.

But now another international carrier, Emirates Airlines, is rerouting flights to avoid that region. Both flight recorders have been found in the wreckage of that Russian airliner that went down. Reuters says Egyptian officials claim they are analyzing them, but the Russian transport minister claims that work has not yet begun.

CNN senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is in St. Petersburg, the original destination of this flight.

So Matthew, what do we know about the fuselage or maybe even the history of it?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, we don't know a great deal, of course, about what caused this tragedy in the skies over the Sinai Peninsula that caused the death of 224 people. There's been one sort of statement of clarification, the clearest indication we've had so far from a senior aviation official here in Russia saying that he has seen evidence that the aircraft broke up in midair and the debris has been scattered over an area more than seven square miles. And so it's a very difficult job for the investigators on the ground in that very desolate and isolated part of the Sinai peninsula, which is under strict military control, of course, by the Egyptian government to try and gather up all the small and large pieces of the fuselage to fight them back together again and to try and reach some conclusion as to what exactly happened.

The good news if there can be good news in a situation like this is that both of the flight recorders have been located, and found, and they're going to be analyzed soon. And so the chances are very high that we're going to get to the bottom of this.

WHITFIELD: And now we also understand remains are arriving here in St. Petersburg. And clearly family members there in St. Petersburg are just heart broken and devastated. In fact, Russia's observing a national day of mourning, right?

CHANCE: Yes. It is. It's interesting because it's not just the family members that are devastated. Of course they are. I mean so, many people have lost their lives. So many families left behind. So many orphans that have been created as well. It is one of the features of this aircraft is a lot of couples, families left their children with other relatives so they could have a romantic breakaway, a bit of winter sun. And of course it created this whole group of orphans, which is being marked here as well.

But let me step out of the way for a moment to show you the incredible scenes unfolding behind me here at the main airport here in St. Petersburg. People have gathered. These aren't relatives, necessarily, of the people on board that plane. They're just ordinary people, fellow travelers, residents of St. Petersburg come here to pay their respects and to mourn what has become a tragedy not just for the city but for this country as well. The memorials that are being laid out, the flowers, the candles, the children's toys as well, as sort of an indication of how many children were on board that flight. It was 25 I think is the figure. The youngest just 10 months old.

And so, yes, there's a great deal of sadness amongst people across Russia but particularly here in St. Petersburg, which has really felt that this is almost personal tragedy.

WHITFIELD: All right. Matthew Chance, thank you so much.

And reportedly there were a number of families on that flight because Sharm el-Sheikh was a great destination for many people there out of St. Petersburg.

All right. So a lot to talk about here. Let's bring in CNN safety analyst David Soucie, he is also a former safety inspector for the FAA.

So David, in your view, what are the possibilities? What are all of the things that potentially cause a fuselage to break up, disintegrate in midair?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, the things that we can rule out, Fredricka, are things like just the airplane coming apart for some mechanical reason. Looking at what's there, we're not talking about just simply a -- some failure in a single point in the aircraft coming apart. We are talking a about seven-mile disbursement of the aircraft parts and there's no loud pieces. If you look at this video, you can see that there's very, very small pieces of the aircraft there. So in my mind at this point I hate to move forward again, being cautioning against doing that, but there's very few things in my mind that could happen to this airplane other than some type of explosion on board, an external missile, something like that, but we thought that about flight 800, and then we found late they're flight 800 did, in fact, have a mechanical failure to take the airplane apart. It's way too early to speculate, but luckily we have some black boxes that will give us some clues right away. [14:05:34] WHITFIELD: And that this debris field is so wide and

apparently widened because of the type of debris that had been found miles away from kind of a majority of the debris there, give me an idea what you understand the resources to be like. Egyptian authorities on the ground, Russian investigators as well, how will they work together to try to gather whatever information they can on this plane?

SOUCIE: Well, at this point in this the investigation, there has been an investigator in charge appointed. That would likely be an Egyptian investigator in charge. Egypt will work very well together with Russia. They do work well together on other things that they have. This is something that will be a very coordinated effort. It's extremely difficult. It's like investigating 10 or 12, maybe 15 different accident sites. Each one of them has their own set of clues. All of those have to be coordinated. They will have meetings in the morning before they go out, meetings in the afternoon as they reconvene and fuel themselves, make sure they're well hydrated. And then they move back again out again in the afternoon. And in the evenings they will meet again to learn about what they have learned that day and throughout the night that will be analyzed in other areas, that data will be sent to other places and analyzed. And then again in the morning they will reconvene and start again. This is not a simple thing to do. It's a very, very difficult task.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And to underscore that, that I not a simple task, David, because there have been conflicting reports about whether the plane initially reports were saying it may have broken up in two. And that created one set of scenarios. And then we learned today from other authorities who said it looks like it broke up in many pieces and the debris field is very wide, showing that the breaking up took place, you know, during its rapid descent.

So how do investigators kind of make sense of the initial reports and thoughts about the direction of why this plane went down and couple that with the gathering of evidence today, the day after in daylight?

SOUCIE: Well, it's important that from our perspective outside of the investigation it seems very confusing, it seems like we have all these different reports. But from inside the investigation, the only thing that they pay attention to is what they physically see or the data they gather on their team with that alliance of teams that are working together on these sites.

So from the outside it looks very confusing, it looks very disorganized, but from inside the investigation it's very, very organized. They know exactly what's going on and they're not confused at all about what's happened. In fact, by now I would expect they've opened the black boxes and learned some information. But it will be a while before we learn what they've learned from those boxes.

WHITFIELD: You mean like days or weeks? Because yesterday there were some initial bits of information that came from the data recorder, the retrieval of it, but now you say they have both. It could take, what, days or weeks? SOUCIE: Well, if they just -- if it's something very blatant and

clear they'll come out quickly. However, because this is a criminal investigation at this point, there's no reason that they could or can even release this information. So they will keep it together until they come up with some kind of conclusion. I've seen this take as long as a year before they come out with an actual conclusion. But with recent history I think they'll come out with some information within the next week or so.

WHITFIELD: OK. But that has not been confirmed it's a criminal investigation. Still it is a great mystery as to what may have brought this down even though you say right now it looks to you it would be an explosion causing this kind of disintegration.

SOUCIE: Let me clarify. Yes, any investigation begins as a criminal investigation because that possibility exists. So all of the data, all of the information, all the pieces of the aircraft are treated as criminal evidence. So you have to start with that because if it does turn out to be criminal you have that chain of custody and all that information. If you don't start out with that, then you could damage a criminal investigation pretty badly.

So every investigation you do, not even particular to this one or the cause, you want to take care that it's treated as a criminal investigation.

WHITFIELD: Got it.

SOUCIE: Until it's prove than it is not.

WHITFIELD: OK. That makes a whole lot of sense. All right, thank you so much, David Soucie. Appreciate it. We will check back with you.

SOUCIE: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Next, after a month of searching for the cargo ship that sank in a hurricane, the U.S. Navy says it believes it has found the wreckage. The challenges investigators now face in recovering it from the deep ocean floor.

Plus, could Republicans change the way debates are done? In a rare meeting, some of the campaigns will come together tonight. Details of their possible demands next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:13:29] WHITFIELD: A cargo ship that went down in a hurricane exactly one month ago may have been found. A deep sea drone is expected to go into the water today to confirm whether the wreckage ask the El Faro. The U.S. Navy says the object is resting upright and in one piece on the ocean floor. Thirty-three people were on board the El Faro bound for Puerto Rico when it disappeared in hurricane Joaquin. Only one body was recovered after it sank.

Our Sara Ganim is covering the story for us. Sara, is the Navy confident this is that ship?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are hopeful, Federica. I mean, they used sonar technology -- they got these images over the weekend on Saturday which led them to believe they may have finally found the El Faro after a month of looking. Now, these images were found in a location where the El Faro was last seen headed south along the east coast of the Bahamas. It's resting, they say, about three miles down the bottom of the ocean floor like you said, upright and intact as far as they can tell.

So now investigators with the NTSB and the U.S. Navy are going to deploy this underwater drone, this submarine with cameras on it, essentially, down to the bottom of the ocean floor to determine with 100 percent certainty that this is, in fact, the El Faro. Of course, the family members of these 33 crew members who for the last month have been dealing with not just the loss of loved ones, but also the fact there have been very few answers, very few facts coming from this investigation, they are hopeful that this will bring them some sort of closure. In fact, one of them, Barry Young, a relative of one of these crew members, said he'd like to see the ship retrieved from the ocean floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:15:12] BARRY YOUNG, RELATIVE OF EL FARO CREWMEMBER: If they can pull it up with -- I know it's not an easy situation with the depth they're at, we hope something, if nothing else, something can bring us some closure. To have Sean brought back home by whatever state it is, we would like to see him brought back home.

The one thing that every parent, every loved one, every family member stated that Wednesday when they said they were suspending the search, they all wanted to find their loved ones whether they were alive or not. They wanted to have them home. That was their main objective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GANIM: Now, to be clear, the NTSB said today they have no intention of retrieving the ship from the ocean floor, but they say if they do find human remains they will make every effort to retrieve those and bring those people home.

Now, this identification process could take up to 15 days, Fredricka. And that is if the weather conditions are good. If they are less than ideal, it could take even longer than that.

WHITFIELD: All right, Sara Ganim, thank you so much.

We are going to talk some more about this, the recovery efforts of the ship and remains. I want to bring in Paul Ginsburg. He is president of pro-audio labs and specializes in electronic data recorders.

So Paul, this ship, the El Faro, has a type of so-called black box or voyage data recorder.

PAUL GINSBURG, FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERT: Yes.

WHITFIELD: What generally is on that?

GINSBURG: Well, this is analogous to what we have in aircraft. But it's called a voyage data recorder or a VDR. It measures a number of pieces of data that all put together will gives us a clear picture of what happened. Some of the inputs are date and time, GPS position, heading, and speed. There are two microphones on the bridge where you can hear the captain and any of his officers talking. We can see what he issues as orders as to rudder position and throttle, and we also can see what the actual rudder position is and the engine speed.

In addition, there's radar data. There are indicators as to whether watertight or fireproof doors have been opened. There's an echo sounder that measures depth. All of the alarms on board are wired into this device. Wind speed. Direction. And there are little devices on the hull called accelerometers that will detect and transmit an impact to this device.

WHITFIELD: OK. So there's an incredible, you know, abundance of information potentially on that recorder. Now, how do you retrieve it, especially if purportedly this ship is so far deep on the ocean floor? What apparatus would be necessary? How do you get to it?

GINSBURG: Generally, the VDR is made so that there are two pieces to it, one that remains attached to the ship and another one that floats free. And I'm surprised they haven't found that yet in the area. There's even more data than I told you. There is something called an AIS, which is Automatic Identification System, in which ships electronically communicate with each other and identify other ships within 10 or 20 miles, and that data also is in this recording, which lasts, by the way, for 48 hours. So we have a lot longer span than with aircraft.

WHITFIELD: Oh my goodness. All right, this is fascinating information.

Paul Ginsburg, thank you so much.

So hopefully they're able to in some way retrieve these recorders, whether it be down below or maybe floating atop. Thanks so much.

GINSBURG: I look forward to that.

WHITFIELD: Me too.

All right. Straight ahead, one of the most popular fast-food restaurants in the country closing several of its locations because of an E. Coli scare. What you need to know, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:02] WHITFIELD: Checking our top stories, the shooting at Winston-Salem University in North Carolina leaves one dead and another injured. The school also says it believes both victims are students. Police need help looking for the gunman who described by the school as a 21-year-old male who is not believed to be a student.

And a tragic Halloween in New York after three people including a 10- year-old girl are killed when a car hit another car then jumped the curb and plowed into trick-or-treaters in the Bronx Saturday afternoon. Three other people including two young girls are injured. Investigators are trying to determine how that happened. The 52-year- old driver is now in stable condition.

And Chipotle has temporarily closed dozens of its restaurants in Washington and Oregon after an E. Coli scare. No one has died, but health officials say 19 cases in Washington and three cases in Oregon have been linked to a handful of locations of the restaurant-themed Mexican chain. Investigators have not figured out the source of the contamination.

And a powerful weekend storm that left at least six people dead in Texas is moving east now, and that is putting much of the southeast at risk of flooding and possible tornadoes. The downpours have been so severe that Austin, Texas, set a new rainfall record for the month of October. Houston is also recovering from torrential rain. Flooding shut down a highway, emergency crews also made more than 130 water rescues.

CNN meteorologist Tom Sater is track this slow-moving storm.

Boy, where is it going next? It just seems unstoppable.

TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. This is the second weekend in a row, Fredricka. Just last weekend parts of Texas had 10, 15, 20 inches of rain and they've done it again. It is sliding eastward. But look at some of these numbers. Killeen, just below 21 1/2. Austin, storm total over 16 1/4. They picked up 14 1/2 in a 24-hour period. That was a record that went back to 1974. Over 350 calls for help in the Houston area.

Small tornadoes have been in the parishes of Louisiana mainly around at zero, enough to, you know, down a tree and cause some power outages. But if you head back into Texas we had three fatalities in Travis County, two in Harris County, one in San Antonio, and possibly two more to add in the Houston area.

But now, the conveyor belt is bringing the heavy flooding rains to parts of Mississippi, Alabama, into Georgia. It will soon continue its way to south and North Carolina. But, again, the rivers were already swelling in parts of Texas so, that's why they had those water rescues. But there could be definitely some problems to be found here across the parishes of Louisiana.

River warnings still in effect back into Texas but it's just a watch across the south. This is going to continue for over 48 hours. It will drop another staggering possibly five, six inches for a few isolated areas from Alabama into Georgia and that means metro Atlanta will be under this as well until we watch the bulk of it finally make its way to south and North Carolina. But a cold front should keep it from reaching the northeast. But another flood event we'll be watching in parts of the Deep South. WHITFIELD: Boy, what a foggy fall. Isn't that funny? What a soggy

fall.

All right. Thanks so much. I'm waterlogged.

Thanks, Tom.

All right. Next, a Republican presidential candidate has not held back on bashing CNBC for this week's debate. Now their campaigns are trying to do something about that. Their meeting begins in just a few hours. What they hope to accomplish next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:29:48] WHITFIELD: In just a few hours advisers from for multiple GOP presidential candidates are meeting in Alexandra, Virginia, to talk about how they can get more control over the Republican debates. This after several candidates have been publicly complaining about last Wednesday's debate on CNBC. Ben Carson has been one of the most vocal candidates pushing for change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would like to see tighter guidelines in terms of people, when they respond to questions. You know, some people just pretty much ignore what the time constraints are. Others are very careful to stay within them. And I think that creates inequality. We should have moderators who

are interested in disseminating the information about the candidates as opposed to, you know, gotcha, you did this and would you defend yourself on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Chris Frates is live for us now in Washington. So Chris, what's driving this push to change the debate format? Is it just the debate that took place on CNBC or is there something else?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there are a lot of things, Fred, and as you heard from Ben Carson there and a number of other Republican presidential candidates, they're still upset about how CNBC handled Wednesday night's debate.

And today they continue to pound the network and also frankly the media more generally for what they called, as Carson said, gotcha questions. And after what the Republican Party saw is that unfair treatment from CNBC.

On Friday the Republican National Committee announced they were suspending the February debate they had planned with NBC News. Today Carly Fiorina endorsed that suspension when she was asked that there should be changes to the debate format. Here's what she said, Fred.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There has to be consequence when the debate process is abused in the way that CNBC did it. This is a debate series for Republican primary voters. And when you don't have a single conservative moderator, when the moderation earns boos from the audience, I mean, I've never seen that before where an audience booed the moderation. I hope it was a signal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now Fiorina also says she's not sending a representative to tonight's meeting among some of the Republican campaigns to discuss changing those debates -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then there are other ways that some of the candidates are venting their frustrations. She's not attending. What might be an example of how they're venting?

FRATES: The big example of course is that a number of the Republican campaign officials are meeting in suburban Washington, D.C., hotel tonight to discuss changes to these debates. It's important to remember here, Fred, in the past, campaigns themselves have negotiated with TV networks.

This year they did it a little bit differently. The RNC did the negotiating on behalf of the campaigns and they announced the debate schedule ahead of time. The campaigns want to take back some control over this process.

And they have called in Ben Ginsburg, he is a big-deal Republican lawyer in Washington, and he's helped negotiate past debates. Here's what he said about tonight's meeting that he'll be attending.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN GINSBERG, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: In past cycles it was the campaigns themselves who talked to the sponsors. It's an institutional matter if you issue a schedule before handle and promise debates to news media organizations, you've lost some leverage. So that loss of leverage is something that the campaigns want to talk about and we'll talk about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So the candidates, of course, they want more leverage with the networks on how the debates are done. The problem here, of course, Fred, is that, you know, all the campaigns have very different agendas for what they want.

The second-tier candidates, they want to get on the primetime debate stage with the frontrunners and they don't want this earlier, less watched undercard debate. Frontrunners like we heard from Ben Carson, they want less tough questions, more time for talking points.

That's going to be a tough sell to television networks. So Fred, we'll watch how tonight's meeting goes and we'll report back after it is finished.

WHITFIELD: OK, because the mystery is what happens after that meeting, then what?

FRATES: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: All right, Chris Frates, thanks so much. Joining me to talk more about this are Republican strategist, Brian Morgenstern, and columnist and author, Ellis Henican. Good to see you.

So Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina aren't the only ones criticizing the debates. Senator Ted Cruz has also been making it quite the talking point while on the campaign trail. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have suggested a very, very simple rule. How about the moderators of Republican primaries actually be Republicans? If you have individuals who never in their life voted in a Republican primary, maybe they shouldn't be moderating Republican primaries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So Brian, Senator Cruz saying it's a radical idea but he's kidding, right? Debates not -- you know, are not designed really to be a love fest but challenge the candidates to show and state who they are, what they would do so how should this dialogue about debate design proceed tonight?

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: First of all, complaining about the media with a shotgun on your shoulder is the most Republican thing I think he could possibly do. If he had a bible in his other hand I think he might have been able to outdo himself.

[14:35:07] But I have to say that something that Senator Cruz is touching on is a good point, and that is the double standard. Look, the DNC would never have their candidates subjected to a Fox News debate or have Mark Lavine or Rush Limbaugh moderate one of their debates.

And so a lot of Republicans see it as sort of a self-damaging thing to do to have your candidates, you know, go up against people they view as adversaries. So I think it's really the double standard that he's getting at there.

I don't have a problem with candidates being challenged, of course, in debates. That's the whole point of debates as you said. But I think that double standard is a pretty good point.

WHITFIELD: So Ellis, do you agree with that? Is there a double standard?

ELLIS HENICAN, CO-AUTHOR, "THE PARTY'S OVER": You know what? They look to me like a bunch of whiners. I mean, honestly, this is an absolutely losing proposition, right? What are we supposed to -- the questions are too tough, too many gotchas, Ben Carson, they're so mean to us. These people want to be president. They ought to be able to handle the toughest questions from all comers anywhere. You know what I think they should do tonight? I have a better idea for you.

While the candidates are meeting for their complaint session, why don't the network executives, right, we could have the Jeff Zucker and Phil Griffin over at NBC, right?

Maybe Roger (inaudible) can get together and say, who know what? If you don't want tough questions, go have your debate at the Iowa fair and let old McDonald be the moderator. He'll ask you a bunch of easy questions. This thing is a total loser for these people.

MORGENSTERN: That is completely false, Ellis.

HENICAN: Why can't they answer a question, Brian? There's nothing unfair about those questions.

MORGENSTERN: Absolutely there was.

HENICAN: What's wrong?

MORGENSTERN: They were getting in their faces, being confrontational -- you can complain all you want.

HENICAN: Poor babies.

MORGENSTERN: They are not treated the same way.

HENICAN: Poor babies.

MORGENSTERN: So this meeting, they'll be talking this evening, at least representatives of the candidates, not the candidates themselves, but representatives, you know, of various camps, Carly Fiorina said her people won't be there because they're focusing on Iowa.

But then what happened after that meeting, Brian? So they meet, they discuss, they share notes on what they would like to see during a debate.

But then do they take these ideas to various networks, shop it around, or, you know, they're not going to do this with the RNC being there? And I wonder what does that mean they are not invited?

MORGENSTERN: Well, I think what's going to happen is, you know, ongoing conversations with the networks, especially NBC, because neither party is really intent on blowing up this debate and preventing it from happening.

NBC of course wants the ratings and the Republicans want to be exposed on network to as many viewers as possible. They want to speak to a Latino audience with Telemundo, things like that. I think both parties are incentivized to make a deal. I think it's going to be what ideas come out of this.

WHITFIELD: But the RNC is not there. Who's making this deal?

MORGENSTERN: I think there's a reason Ben Ginsburg is there, who is not affiliated with the campaign anymore, who may be able to be a facilitator to put down the ideas that do have a consensus. Some of them may have to do with NBC living up to, you know, the deal that it made in terms of formatting or coming to some understanding regarding questions.

Another may have little to do with that at all, which would be sort of balancing the number of candidates for each debate as opposed to having ten and four, maybe having, you know, seven and seven, something like that. I think they should also live in a house like "Big Brother" with no TV and a lot of alcohol and we'll see who they really are.

WHITFIELD: That would be entertaining. I think we could all learn a lot about each candidate, wouldn't we. All right, Ellis, Brian, thank you so much.

MORGENSTERN: See you later.

WHITFIELD: All right, straight ahead, it started as a playful kiss on the cheek between a same-sex couple, but they say what happened next left them battered, locked up, and temporarily homeless.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:42:41]

WHITFIELD: All right, what started out as a vacation in paradise ended with jail time, homelessness, and being stuck in Hawaii for months. Two young women say their ordeal started because they kissed each other in a grocery store. CNN's Sara Sidner has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Girlfriends, Courtney Wilson and Taylor Guerrero say they were on holiday and buying snacks in a grocery store when they found themselves in a battle over doing what lovers do.

TAYLOR GUERRERO, PLAINTIFF: We were holding hands and I was kissing her cheek, and like, you know --

COURTNEY WILSON, PLAINTIFF: We were just happy to be there. We were just being goofy. They called after us and told us basically, you know, you can't do that, take that somewhere else.

SIDNER: They say it turned out to be off-duty Police Officer Bobby Harrison who was also shopping in the store. They say he followed them to the checkout line.

WILSON: He told us that he was going to find the manager and have us sign a trespass and we were no longer going to be allowed in any food- buying establishments because of the conduct of our behavior. So being confused as to what exactly we did and how that was just, I called the police myself.

SIDNER: The situation escalated while she talked to 911, Wilson says she tried to walk outside and Officer Harrison grabbed her and then pushed her girlfriend.

GUERRERO: He wouldn't let go of you. He would not let go of her.

WILSON: Yes. I was just confused and he pushed her. He just pushed her and she fell and hit her head on the counter.

SIDNER: A tussle ensued. Wilson says she was punched in the face by the officer when she tried to push him off her girlfriend, who she says was being choked. Wilson's injuries from two days later apparent in these photos.

She admits in the tussle the officer did get kicked, pushed, and hit in the face breaking his glasses. They say it ended with them in zip tie handcuffs and an employee holding them down.

Meantime, the police she had called showed up, but to their surprise, they were arrested and sent to jail on charges of assaulting an officer. Instead of enjoying the beautiful Hawaii beaches, the two were sitting in jail for two days.

(on camera): They ended up spending all their vacation money to bail themselves out of jail. But then they were told they would have to check in with the bail bondsman in Hawaii every couple of weeks. They had no money left, so they ended up having to stay in Hawaii.

[14:45:01] First they stayed with some friends. Then they stayed with strangers and eventually they ended up homeless in Hawaii. But eventually they were able to get temporary jobs and they are now living with co-workers they hardly know.

(voice-over): About five months after being arrested, the case was withdrawn and a judge dismissed it. They are now free to leave Hawaii, but they are now suing the city and the officer.

GUERRERO: Out of anger.

WILSON: Yes.

GUERRERO: It was like we didn't deserve that, and nobody would help us.

SIDNER: The department has responded to the civil suit telling CNN the Honolulu Police Department opened an internal investigation based on the allegations in the lawsuit. The officer has 26 years of service. The officer is currently on full duty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: So far the public has not heard the officer's side of the story. And we're told that there was some surveillance video inside of the store when it all happened. The women and the attorney want to get a hold of that video, but they tell us they were told the video was lost. We contacted the store to try to get comment. We have not heard back from them. Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.

WHITFIELD: All right, joining me right now is CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson, who is also a criminal defense attorney. So, Joey, we have the allegation of the assault on the officer and the charge that they were facing and that helped keep them in the situation they were in, that they had to stay in Hawaii, trying to fight that charge.

Let's back up a little bit because the young lady said they were told they can't do that, and that was kissing. So do we have any understanding about what kind of law this officer may have been trying to enforce at that moment?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: We don't have an understanding of what law he was trying to enforce. We do have an understanding of what law or laws may be violated in the event that this is true. So like any other case, Fredricka, it turns on the facts.

What the facts ultimately are will depend on how the case revolves itself, and those facts will be added more life to them when the officer has his say-so, and if the surveillance tape that's there surfaces, but the claims that they're making are federal claims and have very significant.

First they're talking tact fourth amendment. We know the fourth amendment. That's the one that says unlawful searches and seizures. You can't do it. In an event an officer touches you there has to be some reasonable suspicion that criminality is afoot.

In the event they arrest you there needs to be probable cause for your arrest. They're saying there was none of that and the officer should have left them alone if they were engaging in public displays of affection.

WHITFIELD: The flip side is these young girls alleged that they were responding to the physical contact and if this is the case, the being protected by the fourth amendment, then should they even be facing a charge of assault on an officer?

JACKSON: Well, you know, Fredricka, that was the issue, and apparently the jurisdiction there in terms of the criminal charges that was levels against them felt not because the cases were dismissed. Generally they're not dismissed unless they felt they can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

There was a feeling or sense criminally they did nothing wrong. They're also making another claim, and that is based on their sexual orientation and what they choose to do, and that's the 14th amendment because we're all entitled to equal protection under the law.

As a result, gay, lesbian, straight, you need to be treated with the respect and dignity you're entitled to. That's the claim you're making. With regard to the touching, they're also talking about battery. Offensive touching, the officer shouldn't have touched them to begin with.

Factually, a lot more needs to be determined. We don't know the officer's side of the story, but on the face of it and in the complaint it's troubling and if true would be problematic for the officer and the municipality.

WHITFIELD: Talk about the charges dropped but that's after five months.

JACKSON: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: Talk about building the case if you were these young ladies or the attorney representing these two young ladies, the type of case that you would be building against the officer or the city or everything that they experienced from being homeless to running out of money to having to stay against their will, what would their case be?

JACKSON: Fredricka, you just gave a fabulous closing argument to a jury by saying all of that because you know what will happen is their attorneys will be talking to the jury if it gets that far saying, look at the damages that were incurred by my client.

As a result of this happening to them, they were in jail for two days, who wants to be subjected to that. They were forced to remain on what was a vacation for five months, and thereafter they ran out of money, they were virtually homeless, all of this inflicted upon them.

We talk about that in terms of damages you should give them, but look at the mental anguish. Look at the pain and suffering. You should punish the officer in light of his conduct. And so that of course will all be what they will be building to that jury whether they're able to build it effectively will of course again turn on all the facts as we know them to be when everything comes out.

WHITFIELD: All right, Joey Jackson, thank you so much.

JACKSON: Thank you, Fredricka. Have great afternoon.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much. We'll be right back.

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[14:54:21]

WHITFIELD: It's been 15 years since the 2000 presidential election and tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern Time, my colleague, Gloria Borger, takes us back to the endless election of Bush versus Gore -- Gloria.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Fred, as political reporters we live our lives in a world of spin so it was really refreshing to talk about the closest election in modern political history with the players who lived through it and hear the Democrats talk about their mistakes and Republicans talk about their strategy.

One candid person is not a household name. That's Mac Stipanovich, he is the guy who guided Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. Listen to what he told us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BORGER (voice-over): A well-respected Tallahassee lobbyist with ties to Jeb Bush and a long history in Republican politics, Mac Stipanovich became Katherine Harris' brain.

JOHN "MAC" STIPANOVICH, SENIOR ADVISER TO KATHERINE HARRIS: I explained to her, you don't have any friends. You won't once this is over, and we're going to be loathed by the media for the rest of our lives and through the lives of her grandchildren. That's not what's important here today. We're going to elect president of the United States. Forget all the rest of that stuff.

BORGER: As Americans watched the partisans duke it out daily on live TV, behind the scenes, Mac was plotting the Republican path to victory.

STIPANOVICH: I called senior staff together and I said we're not going to break any laws, but I want you to forget about the intent of the laws, we're going to bring this election to an end and we were going to fight them tooth and nail, house to house, hand to hand, and we were going to hold Florida unless they sent in federal troops.

BORGER: He knew exactly what he had to do, stop counting votes and preserve Bush's election-night lead no matter how small.

STIPANOVICH: We actually believed the result was right. I said George Bush has won this election and it is our job to make it so and we're going to rapidly as possible close off any option, any path that could be followed that produces any result other than that one. People are going to watch this appalled, my God, the corrupt bastards, they stole the election. No. We won the election.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BORGER: Not every everyone felt the same way, obviously, and so for 36 days it was hand to hand combat, and the warriors remember every single minute of it -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Gosh, well, Gloria, thanks so much. Covering it myself in Florida for weeks on end, I remember it like it was yesterday too. Don't miss that special report "Bush V Gore" tomorrow night 9:00 p.m. Eastern. We will be right back.

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